A Christian or a Hypocrite?

[Luc Solar]

Christianity differs from other major religions quite a bit.

 

When you walk around the streets you don't see anything religious. Go to Islamic or Hindu countries and you see the difference. There everything is controlled by religion: what you wear, where you can go and with whom, what you're allowed to do and when/with whom/where, what you can eat, what you can say etc. etc. etc.

 

Can christianity even be considered a religion anymore? Am I Christian? I suppose so, technically anyway. I'm Evangelical Lutheran (sp?).

 

Does religion play any part in my life? Sometimes, I guess. I pray every night, but mumbling through the same litany without even thinking can hardly be considered as praying.

 

When do Christians pray? I'd say never except if they are in trouble, except if something really bad is about to happen. We pray only when we are scared and need something.

 

Are most Christians hypocrites? I believe so.

 

What about the Bible? Do you live by it? Do you believe every word it says or only the convenient parts? Does the Bible form you morals or do you simply use it to back up you opinions when it serves your purposes?

 

Do you Christians even believe in the Biblical God? Was Jesus his son? Was Maria conceived through the wholy spirit? Does the communion-wine turn into Jesus' blood?

 

Do you think you must agree with the Bible in order to be a real Christian? Can you be a good person even if you are not a Christian and if so, why would we even need the Bible?

[El Sitherino]

are you asking us what we say about you or about ourselves?

[Luc Solar]

Ummm.. I already voted, so you don't need to wonder what I'm all about.

 

The question was directed at everyone. Are *you* a true christian or not?

 

...or just general dicussion on the subject.

[El Sitherino]

I'm Buddhist. so i said im not even pretending to be christian.

[C'jais]

I'm glad my parents didn't Christen/baptize me. Otherwise I would have been officially "Christian" by now.

 

In our modern society, there are two ways to become Christian:

 

You parents pass on the tradition. Brainwash, no matter how well intentioned it is. You get no choice in accepting the customs and rituals as real facts. Belief in God becomes a natural thing, senseless and pointless to question. Praying becomes an automated process with no active belief needed.

 

The other way is done by dying people on their deathbed, who seeks a way to prove that their life wasn't completely meaningless.

 

How many pick up Jesus in the middle of their lives without haven been presented to him as childs? None that I know of. If it was outlawed for parents to pass on their customs, the world would be secularized in no time.

 

In real life, I have never ever met a religious young person. Only on the internet.

[Wacky_Baccy]

Posted by Cjais

I'm glad my parents didn't Christen/baptize me. Otherwise I would have been officially "Christian" by now.

I'm eternally thankful to my parents for the same reason.

 

When I was five or six, however, I felt like an outsider because so many of my friends had either been Christened or Baptised... I'm unbelievably glad I didn't give in to the subtle pressure that was there.

In our modern society, there are two ways to become Christian:

 

You parents pass on the tradition. Brainwash, no matter how well intentioned it is. You get no choice in accepting the customs and rituals as real facts. Belief in God becomes a natural thing, senseless and pointless to question. Praying becomes an automated process with no active belief needed.

I'm actually working on a thread right now about that... It might take me quite a while to post it though, as I'm still gathering sources and info...

The other way is done by dying people on their deathbed, who seeks a way to prove that their life wasn't completely meaningless.

 

How many pick up Jesus in the middle of their lives without haven been presented to him as childs?

A few, but they tend to have been inducted into groups at vulnerable times in their lives... I saw a fairly impartial documentary about it a little while ago... It wasn't pleasent viewing, I can tell you, but it did vastly broaden my understading of several things.

If it was outlawed for parents to pass on their customs, the world would be secularized in no time.

That would be fantastic, IMO... It'll never happen on a wide scale, though

In real life, I have never ever met a religious young person. Only on the internet.

Same here... Odd really.

 

 

*edit*

 

And turn off invisible, dammit, Jais!

[obi]

I am a christian, and I strongly believe in Christian ethics. That includes not insulting others for what they believe.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by obi-wan13

I am a christian, and I strongly believe in Christian ethics. That includes not insulting others for what they believe.

 

Sorry Obi, I was thinking aloud. I meant what I said though, I truly do believe that there aren't any other real ways to become Christian these days. That's just how it has always seemed to me, here in heathen Denmark. Over here, anyone who calls himself a Christian has probably never prayed, read the Bible or gone to church apart from the usual ceremonies. Not kidding. They simply believe there's a higher power and leave it at that.

 

But hey, if it's different conditions over there, I'll gladly listen.

[Rogue_Ace]

Are most Christians hypocrites? I believe so.

 

Sadly some Christians are hypocrities. But not as many as you may think. The problem is that people only notice when a Christian is doing something bad. But we as Christians make mistakes too, or else there would be no need for Christ or the Cross. But again I know that there are a lot of Christian hypocrites out there.

 

Am I Christian? I suppose so, technically anyway.

 

Respectfully I dont think that anyone can "technically" be a Christian. Either you are or you aren't, period. Its a matter of the heart.

 

I pray every night, but mumbling through the same litany without even thinking can hardly be considered as praying.

 

Your right; prayer comes from the heart. If you are just paying lip service to God then in my opinion you should stop wasting your time. You should pray to God because you want to.

 

When do Christians pray? I'd say never except if they are in trouble, except if something really bad is about to happen. We pray only when we are scared and need something.

 

Sadly thats ture a lot of the time. We as Christians have this great tool with which we can speak directly to God and we sometimes forget it is there.

 

What about the Bible? Do you live by it? Do you believe every word it says or only the convenient parts?

 

Yes. In my opinion, and according to the Bible, every word in it is true. Even the parts we dont like . No one ever said that life as a Christian is a "bed of roses." But I would not have it any other way.

 

Do you Christians even believe in the Biblical God? Was Jesus his son?

 

How can you be a Christian and not believe in the Bible. Its not possible.

Yes Christ was Gods Son and it was a virgin birth.

 

Does the communion-wine turn into Jesus' blood?

 

That was and still is a big argument in the church today. In my opinion it is just a symbol of the blood Jesus shed not the actual thing.

 

Can you be a good person even if you are not a Christian

 

Anyone can be a good person. But as a Christian you definitely need to be a good person, there is not question about it.

 

 

Now after all that I want to say that these are just my beliefs and if you believe something different I respect that.

[obi]

Originally posted by Rogue_Ace

Now after all that I want to say that these are just my beliefs and if you believe something different I respect that.

 

They are not just your beliefs, but they are mine as well. In fact, I cannot think of a better way to say it.

 

When I talk to people about Christ, some give me a dirty look, or even threaten me. I care not what they think, for I am not trying to please them. The only one I am trying to please is God, and if someone else doesn't like it, well, that is their problem.

[Jedi_Monk]

You parents pass on the tradition. Brainwash, no matter how well intentioned it is. You get no choice in accepting the customs and rituals as real facts. Belief in God becomes a natural thing, senseless and pointless to question. Praying becomes an automated process with no active belief needed.

No matter that you were baptised at birth, that your parents have raised you on the traditions--there will always come a point in everyone's life when they must decide what they truly believe. I reached that point, and I decided I do believe in the traditions passed on to me, but not every Christian-rased person does--far from it.

 

How many pick up Jesus in the middle of their lives without haven been presented to him as childs? None that I know of. If it was outlawed for parents to pass on their customs, the world would be secularized in no time.

Every Easter, thousands of adults are innitiated into the Catholic Church. There's not an Easter Vigil service I've been to where there weren't at least a half-dozen people being innitiated. The majority are probably protestant converts, but there are many from non-Christian lifestyles who have decided to join the Church. And if the passage of traditions from parent to child were outlawed, it would hardly be a free society.

 

In real life, I have never ever met a religious young person. Only on the internet.

I go to youth group every Sunday, and am surrounded by very devout teenagers.

 

As for me, I follow the New Testament and the Dogma of the Church (and, yes, I believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist). The Old Testament is a history of our faith, which stemmed out of Judaism, and a record of prophesies of the Messiah. But the New Testament supercedes the old for Christians, which is why the Church is against the death penalty, when it was allowed under the Old Covenant. I pray every day, morning prayers and the Chaplat of Divine Mercy (a variation of the Rosary), and I also pray for strength whenever temptation creeps into my mind. I go to Church every Sunday and every Holy Day and it's not a chore for me. I go to youth group after Mass and help run it as well. The Church and religious life takes up a good portion of my life.

[Darth Groovy]

I do not question my own faith, but I am having some troubles on my walk. I recently got engaged and then she decided to changer her mind in a week's span. I am kind of lost now, and I do have a serious disposition with churches as a whole.

[Rogue_Ace]

I do not question my own faith, but I am having some troubles on my walk. I recently got engaged and then she decided to changer her mind in a week's span. I am kind of lost now, and I do have a serious disposition with churches as a whole.

 

Wow that sucks . It sounds like you are a believer so you have this before but I'll say it anyway. Everything happens for a reason and although you may not see it now i'm sure that God will reveal it to you in the future. I know that those words are not really that comforting but thats life, it goes on even through the suckey(is that even a word:D ) parts. I know other Christians have felt the same way you do. I have. But looking back on those bad times I'm glad they happened, I learned valuable lessons. So understand that God had a good reason for letting that happen to you even though you may not see it now.

[Rogue15]

I believe in Jesus, and stick w/the morals that are taught in the Bible. I prefer to let my actions speak louder than words when it comes to the 'preaching the gospel' part.

[Taos]

Now when I was younger, around 8 I think. I was baptised into a methodist church. [i think that's christian *shrugs*]

 

Obviously, I don't practice it much.....I do think that most christians are hypocrites. I'd go into detail but I'm way too tired and I should be in bed.

[Luc Solar]

I do thinks I can be a Christian without believing every word the Bible says.

 

The Old Testament is horrible. It is barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The Old Testament is a symbol for the very opposite of what *my* God and *my* faith represents.

 

The Old Testament symbolises the sort of religion that is the root of all evil.

 

* waiting for a bolt of lightning to strike me down *

 

Okay. Phew!

 

If you look at the Talebans or other highly religious communities, you see what I'm, talking about.

"Only WE are righteous, everyone else is an abomination to GOD and must be punished/destroyed! Women are but dogs, breeding machines trying to entice our holy Men into acts of sin! Women must never show their faces or walk in public without their husband or brother and when they sit in their room, they are not allowed to open any windows! If a woman opens the window and seduced a man to do sinful acts with her (=gets raped), the Husband must slaughter her immediately in order to maintain the honour of his family."

 

Hmmm.. enough about that.

 

The new Testament is a whole different story however. It's a great book with lots of info that is still useful. I just don't think that one should take it literally. An example:

 

The bible says: No sex before marriage.

 

What *I* think the bible says here is this:

 

1) Do not screw around because that may cause emotinal distress to your partner, if you both are not in for it solely for the "fun".

 

2) Do not screw around because having sex with multiple partners upps the chance of getting or forwarding STD 's.

 

3) Do not screw around because it might lead to the woman getting pregnant, which leads to a lot of problems.

 

4) Sex is meant to be a beautiful thing. Only have sex with people you care about, with people you love.

 

5) Always use protection to protect you and your partner from STD's and unwanted pregnancies.

 

6) Have childres only at the point when you are both ready for it. The good of the child is your first priority.

 

 

But instead the Bible says: "No sex before marriage period"

 

Times have changed. The point is still valid, but it needs to be interpreted differently now that things have changed (contraceptives etc.).

 

My god is not the god of Israel or the god of Christians. Simply the fact that we have so many religions in the world proves in a way the fact that none of us is right.

Is the true God an alien race or just a blob somewhere beyond our universe? I don't know. But what I do know is that no damn god takes every drop of community wine and changes it to the blood of a person who allegedly lived some 2000 years ago.

Neither do I believe that God really wants me to bend over and mumble some mantras 5 times per day or else I face his horrble wrath. God must have better things to do.

 

Perhaps God has given us guidelines, codes that we should strive to live by. But ATM a certain code is passé. It can not be taken literally anymore. That is my opinion.

 

Religion is the root of all evil in the hands of men. How many wars have we fought that would have been prevented if no religion existed? How much hate and suffering would disappear this day if suddenly the whole world would turn Buddhist?

 

Think about it.

[Rogue_Ace]

The Old Testament is horrible. It is barbaric, cruel, prejudiced. The Old Testament is a symbol for the very opposite of what *my* God and *my* faith represents.

 

I dont think that the Old Testament is horrible at all, have you ever read Psalms. Psalms contains some of the most beautify poetry ever written.

 

You say that it (OT) is cruel and barbaric, so you are saying that God is cruel and barbaric, not true. The OT is the history of the Jewish people and when you read it you can see that they screw up a lot , yet this cruel and barbaric God does not blast them from the face of the earth like they deserved. Yes He did punish them severly, but when they came back to Him and asked his forgivness.

 

Yes New Testament Law supersedes that of the OT but that does not mean that we should throw all of its teachings out the window. It is still the Bible, the Word of God and it should be followed. The reason that we are not "struck down by a bolt of lightening:)" is because we now have Christ intervening on our behalf.

 

If you look at the Talebans or other highly religious communities, you see what I'm, talking about.

 

Very true. But those communities do not represent the Christian Community, in fact they are the exact opposite.

 

I know what you are going to say, to just look at the Jews and all the crap that is happening over in Israel at this time. But the Jews are not Christians, they only believe in the OT, they do not believe that Christ was their Savior. They expected that the King would come and fight all their wars for them and make them the supreme rulers of all the word; what they got was a carpender. I dont even consider most Catholics to be Christians, most of them are just "sunday Christians" and go to church for what they believe is "fire insurance," they dont want to go to hell so they figure that good works and going to chruch once a week will ensure them a place in Heavan.

 

But instead the Bible says: "No sex before marriage periodTimes have changed. The point is still valid, but it needs to be interpreted differently now that things have changed (contraceptives etc.). "

 

Yes is does and that still stands for today, and not just in the OT. When you start to take the Bible as partially true then you are destroying the whole concept of it. You start to take only the parts that are fun and lovey and get rid of the rest. Whats the point of believing only certian parts that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

 

Solar I hope that you dont think that I am singleing you out, you are making some great points that I think I can help add perspective to. So no hard feelings right?

[Mandalorian54]

Yes I am a christian.

 

I am a Baptist to be exact.

 

and I don't beleive you should be baptized as a child because you are supposed to be baptized as a public statment that you have faith and want to be a christian. When your a baby you don't have faith you dont even know you exist yet. How many of you remember being baptized? You only know your baptized because you were told.

 

I strongly believe in the doctrins of grace.

I am against abortion, infant baptism,and women preachers.

 

I don't believe in speaking in toungs, or a secret rapture. I believe in a very loud and public rapture.

 

Catholics,and Jehovah witnesses are not christians even though they call themselves christians.

 

And Christianity is not a religeon its a faith!

 

And duh you have to believe in the Bible to be a christian, thats like saying I don't believe in Christ but I'm a Christian. not believing in the Bible and still praying and stuff is like saying your an ian with no Christ on the begining.

[Maverick Knight]

No one should be 'brainwashed', as you put it. No one should follow a religion just because their parents did. No one should 'just believe.' Likewise, no one should discount a belief system because of a bad circumstance (i.e. believing that God is evil because you lost your job.) No one should be afraid of asking questions about religion out of fear of punishment. If you can't ask questions and get logical answers, it's not worth believing in. Everyone should be able to back up their beliefs with arguments. Otherwise, it's not worth believing in.

 

Now, I have found that Christianity is the only belief system (philosophical, theological, and otherwise) that is able to answer my questions adequately. And yes, there was a time when I doubted the religion, but it was because I was able to get thorough and logical answers that I stayed with it.

 

The Testaments:

The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies. They go together, and can't be taken seperately. Some of the laws and regulations in the OT were negated by Jesus' words in the NT, and that was because Jesus changed the way man related to God. The OT isn't wrong, per se, it's just the other half of the story; just the way past history is the other half of what is going on in the world today with these international conflicts and whatnot.

And about that 'no sex before marriage' thing: it's still valid. Just because we can do it more safely than in their times doesn't mean that we should. Sex is a precious thing, a sign of commitment to a partner, not just a 'good time.' After sex, what is the most intimate thing a couple can share? Answer: not much.

 

Hypocrisy:

Sadly there are hypocritical Christians, and they often get most of the publicity. But that is only because they are humans, and humans are flawed. If we weren't flawed, we wouldn't need God. If anyone says they are perfect, it's a sure sign that they aren't.

 

Summary:

Don't judge Christianity or any other religion by the people who practise it. Judge it by what it says at its core and how well it applies to the real world.

 

(Whew, sorry about all that...)

[Rogue_Ace]

And Christianity is not a religeon its a faith!

 

Right on man!!!

 

Try this one: Christianity is not a religeon its a relationship.

 

The OT isn't wrong, per se, it's just the other half of the story; just the way past history is the other half of what is going on in the world today with these international conflicts and whatnot.

 

Exactly

[C'jais]

While I generally don't concern myself with Christian beliefs, I must speak aloud now:

 

Catholics are just as much Christian as you are. No less. They believe in Christ and the Bibler, ergo the are Christians. This cannot be debated, or you'll have to pervert the current language.

 

Christianity is a religion. I don't know where you got this from, M54, but the idea of it not being a religion is absurd.

 

The Old Testament is barbaric. God kills women, kids and innocent people. He is outright violating his preachings in the New Testament. And it contains the worst hogwash known to date - the Genesis. This alone should be reason enough to disregard it completely as nonsense.

 

And Luc is doing the right thing. Interpreting the Bible for himself. If you acknowledge the fact that there are metaphors in the Bible, he isn't doing anything wrong at all. He is not picking the bits he like - he's trying to fold an outdated text to fit modern problems. It can't be done by assuming that everything in the Bible is literal truth. It has already been proven false on far too many accounts.

 

And our church would behave the same way today if the western world hadn't got secularized at the end of the dark ages. Society put a gun to the church's head, and it was forced to comply. This has not happened in the middle east, as their conditions now equal those of the dark ages. Yes, the Christian church once did the exact same executions and bloody rituals.

[Rogue_Ace]

Catholics are just as much Christian as you are. No less. They believe in Christ and the Bibler, ergo the are Christians. This cannot be debated, or you'll have to pervert the current language.

 

I didn't say all Catholics I said some . Those who just go to church and the second they leave they become a different person. That really ticks me off because its them that give Christians as a whole a bad name. Do people usually notice when a Christian is doing something good? Almost never unless they are getting money. But like I said earlier the second a Christian does something bad everyone points a finger at h/s.

 

Also in my opinion the Catholic church has perverted the faith beyond belief. They do believe in Jesus and the Bible but thats not the only thing they believe in. They think that the pope is holy, no way. The only person to be Holy was Jesus. The Catholic church has strayed from the original rule book, the Bible and made up their own rule books, that they put just as much value on. Wrong the supreme law is the Bible, period. That was one of the reasons for the Reformation. Luther and other saw the corruption that existed in the church and realised that it was no longer following God, thus the Protestant church.

 

Christianity is a religion. I don't know where you got this from, M54, but the idea of it not being a religion is absurd.

 

Its a relationship with Christ as a personal Savior.

 

And Luc is doing the right thing. Interpreting the Bible for himself. If you acknowledge the fact that there are metaphors in the Bible, he isn't doing anything wrong at all. He is not picking the bits he like - he's trying to fold an outdated text to fit modern problems. It can't be done by assuming that everything in the Bible is literal truth. It has already been proven false on far too many accounts.

 

I never said that interpreting the scripture was wrong. Yes we can look at the Bible and compare it to modern things. But we cannot twist it around until it makes us happy and says what we want it to say.

 

The Old Testament is barbaric. God kills women, kids and innocent people. He is outright violating his preachings in the New Testament. And it contains the worst hogwash known to date - the Genesis. This alone should be reason enough to disregard it completely as nonsense.

 

Technically no one is innocent. We all deserve what we get, we are sinners, no one but Christ was perfect. Its only by Christ that we do not get the Wrath of God. Thats not to say bad things never happen to Christians, God lets things happen for a reason and who are we to say any different.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Rogue_Ace

 

Also in my opinion the Catholic church has perverted the faith beyond belief. They do believe in Jesus and the Bible but thats not the only thing they believe in. They think that the pope is holy, no way. The only person to be Holy was Jesus. The Catholic church has strayed from the original rule book, the Bible and made up their own rule books, that they put just as much value on. Wrong the supreme law is the Bible, period.

 

And this makes you... a fundamentalist. No better than Muhammed Atta and his crew. Someone who would die for their God.

 

Listen, don't flame Catholics because they believe in something else than you. You're technically equally wrong, since none of you have succeeded in proving your postulations and beliefs with objective, empirical proof. And both of your doctrine's theories about the Bible being true has been nullified.

 

Its a relationship with Christ as a personal Savior.

 

Gah. According to 3 dictionaries, a religion is a belief in a god. That fits the bill. You are wrong. Or you are not speaking the same English as me.

 

I never said that interpreting the scripture was wrong. Yes we can look at the Bible and compare it to modern things. But we cannot twist it around until it makes us happy and says what we want it to say.

 

Yet Luc Solar did none of these things.

 

Technically no one is innocent.

 

Technically, none of you Christians have ever backed up your beliefs with facts. Like Maverick Knight said, you should be able to provide arguments and proofs of your religion. Applying circular reasoning on the Bible isn't proof of anything - IE you know the Bible is true because it tells you so, and you trust its postulations because you know its true. I cannot take this Christian lecture seriously until you do.

[Rogue_Ace]

Yes I would die for my God. I would die for something that I have these convictions about. But I won’t blow myself up in a suicide bombing if that’s what you mean. But if someone put a gun to my head and asked me if I believed in God I would say yes. But don’t lump me in with those Psychos who blow themselves up.

 

And Cjais your right I cant show you any evidance that I'm right other than the Bible which you dont believe. I respect that. I do believe that I am right but its cool if you disagree with that . Its a thing I have thats called faith and I can only show it to you by my actions. I guess I was not doing a very good job at that with the whole Catholic thing. Sorry. As for the relationship thing its just a saying that my friends and I have .

 

If anyone feals that I am flaming them I'm sorry that was not my intention at all, I was just stating what I believe.

 

Yet Luc Solar did none of these things.

 

Then it was my bad I misunderstood him.

[Luc Solar]

Unfortunately I don't have time for a proper reply, but I'll just say this:

 

 

If someone thinks that they have insulted or flamed me in any way.... oh please! I can not find a single "flameish" comment in all those posts no matter how hard I look. So no need for apologies.