Tie Guy Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle A small majority of people in the USA are AGAINST the war. Where did you get that 2/3 stuff from? In Europe, an even bigger majority is against the war. I heard it aon the radio from a trusted news source several times the very day i wrote that. So i'm not sure where you are getting your propaganda from, but its certainly not true. If anything else the there is a small majority of people FOR the war. The American people are still behind Bush at this point, as are a majority of US Congressmen, so anything else you say is just plain false. And i think its all time we left behind this absolute proof/smoking gun thing. A smoking gun, as the liberals nowadays seem to want first, is a gun AFTER it has been fired. Let's face it, we aren't going to find any of his WMDs until he fires them at us or Kuwait, and then we wouldn't even need to have this discussion either. We're not trying to find a smoking gun here, we're trying to stop it from happening. If we wait for absolute proof then, as sad as it sounds, some of us may not live to regret it, especially if you live in a major city. And i'm being completely serious. And if Saddam hates Al Qaeda so much, then why did we find their training camps in Iraq, ST. And how do you know they think that way? You ask Saddam hyourself, or are you just listening to the nightly news propaganda too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE_Vader_536 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 all i can say is bush is a dumb ass president. he even dared calling Iran part of the axis of evil. I mean how can it be part of the axis of evil if Iran fought Iraq in the Gulf war? And what has Iran done to be considered evil? the stupid hard liners are the only people to blame if iran is at fault for anything. Oh yeah people will say "there are terrorists in Iran!". maybe if they thought a little bit theyd understand that terrorists are everywhere. terrorists are in the US. nobody's calling them "evil" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 If u found training camps they may have been there without the knowledge of thier government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by SE_Vader_536 all i can say is bush is a dumb ass president. he even dared calling Iran part of the axis of evil. I mean how can it be part of the axis of evil if Iran fought Iraq in the Gulf war? And what has Iran done to be considered evil? the stupid hard liners are the only people to blame if iran is at fault for anything. Oh yeah people will say "there are terrorists in Iran!". maybe if they thought a little bit theyd understand that terrorists are everywhere. terrorists are in the US. nobody's calling them "evil" I hope you can understand the differnce between terrorists in Iran and those in America. Those in America are hostile to America, and they want to kill every last one of us, period. Now, thats a huge difference between those terrorist in Iran. Iran is training and equiping terrorism, not even simply harboring them. There are terrorist everywhere, yes, but the problem is, they are coming from Iran. And CD, it doesn't manke me feel any better or Saddam any less responsible if he's too blind to see terrorist camps in his own country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by Boba Rhett Groovy, our Senate forum is a completely different thing from what the jkii one is used for. Unless you were meaning move this to the jkii senate forum. That won't be happening. We keep our debates in off-topic still. Maybe we'll end up changing what our senate forum is used for in the future though. That's the one I meant, I forgot about the Galactic Senate over here. I don't care if it gets yoinked™ or not, as long as the flaming does not continue. Poeple can express they're opinions, and not be riduculed for them. In my opinion Bush is in fact a moron, the man keeps flubbing up his speeches, jumping to conclusions and trying to run the U.S. like he did when he was Governor in TX. I have family that have lived there for quite some time, so I have noticed his actions long before he was even president. I knew he was a war monger, and I hate it when I am right, especially something as serious as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE_Vader_536 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Don't say iran allows terrorists in there! i know they dont want them there for a fact because i am iranian and i follow the gov't closely. you cant say your right because if you look at the pres of iran u will see his personality wouldnt allow it first and second he hated the taliban and iraq 2 us enemys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Flaming? Heh. Been a while since you saw real flaming, huh Groovster? This is still quite tame. Why would a gb thread be moved to the jkii boards anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I know the feeling. Admiral was insulting Russia earlier, but I got over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 And how many times has the US been insulted? Lighten up, and don't take things so personally. By the way I still stand by what I said. Russia may no longer be an enemy of the US, but I don't believe they are a true ally either. For that matter the same goes for France. I have my reasons which I will not go into. Once again these are just my opinions. Furthermore I agree with Bush that Iran is a member of the Axis of evil. Even if the goverment isn't activly supporting terrorism, they are not going after them. At least not actively. It seems like they turn a blind eye towards any terrorist activity. Now appearances can be decieving. However from where I sit it seems that Iran is doing nothing to stop terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE_Vader_536 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 so does that make them part of the axis of evil? Iran does not want terrorists. DUH! So why dont they go after them!? I don't know im asking you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by SE_Vader_536 Don't say iran allows terrorists in there! i know they dont want them there for a fact because i am iranian and i follow the gov't closely. you cant say your right because if you look at the pres of iran u will see his personality wouldnt allow it first and second he hated the taliban and iraq 2 us enemys. You mean you follow the government propaganda very closely? Iran is harboring if not actively supporting terrorist, and you can believe it or turn a blind eye to it if you wish. There's nothing wrong with Iran itself, nor with the people that live(d) there, just some of the leadership and terrorists. Defending a country simply because it's your own leaves you blind to whatever it may actually be doing. I maintain that Iran is an addition to the problem, not a solution. And Groovy, IMO if people want to voice their opinion in a public place then they better be ready to be told they are wrong. Now, that is a lot diffrent than riduculing them or insulting them, but disagreeing, however adamantly, is not flaming and should never taken as such. And, to continue this rant in general, i'm sick of everybody wanting to accpet everyone else's opinion. I hate saying that with a passion. Because the fact is, i don't respect their opinion, i think its ludicrous. If two people have different opinions then one of them must be right and the other wrong. Now, you could argue that the difference depends not solely on validity but rather on point of view, but in either case one person is wrong in someone's eyes. No, respecting others opinions is not what debating is about. I think i'm right, and i think everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong. If i didn't, then i wouldn't be holding that opinion. And, in the nature of free speech, i reserve the right to say that the other person is completely wrong in every way. If someone takes that as ridicule, then it's clearly not my problem, and not one any mods should fix. So Groovy, please don't come in here and tell us we're flaming when what we are doing is, in fact, the essense of debate. One argument pitted against the other in death struggle. If you can't handle it, i suggest you stop whining and keep your opinion to yourself where it's safe. If that sounded harsh, it was. I've got this thing for the truth, and i just had to get that off my chest. Sorry for going a little off topic. Plus, i'm interested to see what Groovy has to say about my opinion, and whether his words were just apostrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Well in my opinion, flaming is any kind of name calling. I saw someone call someone a lousy liberal which I felt was quite unecessary, but Rhett is right, this thread is pretty tame. Perhaps I need to get away from jkii.net more often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Groovy Perhaps I need to get away from jkii.net more often! Definately. That place can't do anyone any good from what i've seen. But "tame" should never be a word used to describe a debate thread. If it's "tame" then people obviously don't believe in their views strongly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 If two people have different opinions then one of them must be right and the other wrong. In my opinion, you're wrong... A very convincing argument, indeed, that, regarding opinions and right or wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Tie Guy Definately. That place can't do anyone any good from what i've seen. Well I don't have much of a choice, since I mod a couple of forums over there. If I ever get a little more jurisdiction elsewhere, things could change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 You're a moderator? Who the hell did you have to get stoned off their ass to get that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Clefo You're a moderator? Who the hell did you have to get stoned off their ass to get that? The Admins had some moonshine at an all night poker party. They throw darts at pictures of our avatars on a giant dart board. Then they send some agents over to kidnap us and force us inot mod positions. It's a common practice really. We have the option of leaving at any time, but I'm in it for the gold watch and luxery cruises. Also they have great chinese food there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Groovy The Admins had some moonshine at an all night poker party. They throw darts at pictures of our avatars on a giant dart board. Then they send some agents over to kidnap us and force us inot mod positions. It's a common practice really. We have the option of leaving at any time, but I'm in it for the gold watch and luxery cruises. Also they have great chinese food there. NO WONDER i never got to be a mod...I bet they put my avatar on the bulls eye...and none of them can make it...I bet Robin Hood could... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Or maybe the obvious fact that all the mods were selected before your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Clefo Or maybe the obvious fact that all the mods were selected before your time What does that mean? Darth Groovy, Darth Fergie, Eets all became mods after I joined, to name a few... Besides, we're going horrendously off-topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I heard it aon the radio from a trusted news source several times the very day i wrote that. So i'm not sure where you are getting your propaganda from, but its certainly not true. If anything else the there is a small majority of people FOR the war. PLEASE don't flame! 1. Opinions could have changed since the time I read that. 2. If you have to know, I got my "propaganda" from TIME Magazine. 3. The opinions I read were something like less than 50 percent against, but even less in favor. The rest were not sure. 4. CNN/NBC (one of the two, I think) reported that "the space shuttle Colombia re-entered Earth's atmosphere with a speed of 16 times the speed of light..:Rolleyes:". Reliable news source, unreliable news. They probably repeated that over again, too. No news source is 100% and you have no reason to think yours is necessarily superior. Again, PLEASE do not flame people from having different views than you! ------------------- Back on topic: Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, yes. I believe the people who say that. I'm even halfway expecting the inspectors to find a nuke in there. But if we don't invade him, there's a chance he won't use the weapons/doesn't plan on using them. If we invade him, he's 95% sure of using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artoo Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 *looks for the last anti-war with Iraq thing he can find* Hmm, looks like the last anti-war comment was already taken care of... too bad. Anyway Clefo you are not minority here. I believe that this place is pretty evenly split between the left and right politically. And I don't mean offense to the people who keep to themselves silent. I mean it to the people who keep stressing leftist propaganda. Those who keep going over the same arguments over and over and over again, even though their arguments are shot down by fact, they continue to present them as if they can hold any meaning with anyone else. And you didn't see what Rhett made me edit out. Bush is President. He will continue to be President for the next year or two. Deal with it. It's not like he makes his decisions based solely on what he wants to do. He has lots of staff members who advise him on what would be best for America and what would be best for public opinion, and so on. [personal opinion]He is also one of the greater orators of patriotic speeches of our time.[/personal opinion] I watched his State of the Union address, and here's what I thought about what he said when he outlined his plan for Iraq. I thought it was much less conservative that what it was going to be. He did not warmonger. He told the nation that the US was going to uphold the UN sanctions placed on Iraq which they have violated for 10 years. He said that they had not shown the evidence for the destruction of the weapons which the UN had found evidence of him having. He said that if Saddam did not comply then the US would help him destroy his weapons, we would not invade to kick him from being president, we would not invade to get wealth for ourselves, or to stimulate the economy, we would not invade simply to "finish the job." We were going to invade to sweep through Iraq find the weapons, destroy them, and leave. Nothing about eliminating Saddam. Nothing about stimulating the economy after Clinton pushed it into recession. Just, were going to uphold UN sanctions. Just my $0.02... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Quite frankly, Eagle, i consider most, if not all, media sources to be completely biased and i can see it in nearly everything they do. TIME, though i don't read it often, has the same left-wing biased, and it blatently obvious simply in some of the titles and sub titles they put on. Propaganda at its finest, if you ask me. Everything has a twist, and polls aren't of everyone in the nation, only a small portion of people. Quite Frankly, i could call a thousand people 4 times and get 4 different results. Polls are what you make them, espescially if you're the only making the poll. In nearly all polls i've seen, even those by liberal media sources (though they normally don't show them if they are for war), there is a majority for the war, by varying degrees of course. Oh, I'm not sure how you got a flame out of that. I certainly wasn't mad, you were merely misled. I'm not flaming, i never do in debates, but if you have a problem with me disagreeing with you, then i suggest you read pervious post. I certainly think you are absolutely wrong, and that your new source, TIME, is outdated and/or flat out distorting truth. If you want to look for yourself, you can go here. They have several dependable polls. Here's another tidbit for you from what i consider, for the most part, and unbiased polling place, the Gallop Organization. As you can see, the results have never been a majority against war in the last several months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Admiral And how many times has the US been insulted? Lighten up, and don't take things so personally. By the way I still stand by what I said. Russia may no longer be an enemy of the US, but I don't believe they are a true ally either. For that matter the same goes for France. I have my reasons which I will not go into. Once again these are just my opinions. I said I got over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted February 5, 2003 Author Share Posted February 5, 2003 I guess I am the flamer here - I called Bush a moron!! I like to see other's opinions especially those from various countries. By no means do I want people getting crazy and calling others names or degrading their opinions! But I think everyone is being nice. What do you guys think of N. Korea right now? They are making weapons of mass destruction right now and the cia thinks they already have some. While they may not use these weapons - they will probably very much sell them off to the highest bidder...and we all know what they support. Terrorism. Now that's scary. What do you guys think our country should do? Ignore them...and go on with the Iraqi situation first or try and stop Korea before its too late? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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