Clem Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 right i know this will get locked prolly cos of angry replies but its really pissed me off america has struck again theyve shot down 1 of our tornados with a patriot missile well done great to be fighting with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 LONDON, England (CNN) -- A British Royal Air Force aircraft returning from a mission in Iraq was possibly shot down by Patriot missiles near the Kuwaiti border, British and U.S. military officials said Sunday. A senior Pentagon official confirmed to CNN that a Patriot missile probably shot down the RAF plane. "Evidence is beginning to come to light that one of our aircraft returning from operations over Iraq last night may have been engaged by a U.S. Patriot missile battery," said Capt. Al Lockwood with the British Royal Air Force in Qatar. "The evidence is begging to appear that this very well may have been a friendly fire incident." "The crew of the aircraft is missing," a British defense ministry statement said. he was coming FROM iraqi airspace. the thing about the diff countries is that they don't always tell each other where they are operating and when. you can't just go off lambasting us because of crap like this. if i'm not mistaken, it could very well have been the other way around, but you have very few missile batteries commited to this. if it weren't for america, you would not have freedom. this is what ticks me off. ungratefull people who can't see that we are protecting THEM, weather they like it or not. did your country get struck by terrorists of husseins breed? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 its still a british plane it has RAF markings on it i dunno but i dont think iraq has even got ne tornados Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 the markings you speak of are to identify the plane to OTHER aircraft or groundcrews when its on the ground. try seeing them, along with the make and model on a radarscreen why don't you, or even when ur lookin at it from 20,000 feet below. don't forget this is at night. good luck in your spotting. they would really be safe transmitting their make, model, and country of origin all over the place while flying over enemy territory. this would sure make them harder to spot by the enemy well i have breakfast to attend to, then a funeral. i'll get back to you later on today (unless i find some more free time this morning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 well if u desgin systems to hit something moving that fast at that altitude maybe u should design a system to tell what it is ur shooting:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Also: 12 wounded and 1 killed because a US elite has thrown granades into 3 tents where fellow soldiers were sleeping. They said this (black?) ISLAMIC guy had been acting strange lately... Question: what was this (obivously) religious fanatic doing there in the first place??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 i heard there were 3 cases involving brits recently (including the falling helicopter) and theres this case luc is bringing up and there must be more unreported cases this worries me .... it worries me greatly maybe we should paint the british planes glow in the dark green ... we'd be safer with the iraqis seeing us than the americans not seeing us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^_- Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 thing is. america does not make racial discrimination in the armed forces. get over yourselves. it is done by both countries. it is not something either are proud of. i urge you both to get ALL the facts before you begin to post political propoganda, made up by anyone. yes we hit our own people sometimes does saddam care if he kills a few thousand of his people? no, he actively MURDERS them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 [Edit: Please keep flames to yourself thank you. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 oh by the way i have a friend there and he told me about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodiac Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Well.. I don't know if you've read the 'Bombing Iraq' post, but Clem really does have a good point when he addresses the big problem of friendly fire. ============================================= In 1991's Gulf War, 49% (!!!) of all the casualties on the coalition's side were caused by friendly fire. The units back then in the deserts of Kuwait were so afraid of getting hit by their own tanks and planes, that they actually didn't care anymore about camouflage and they spanned large robes of fluorizing orange plastic on the top of their vehicles. But even that was no insurance for not getting hit by your own troops. The only British ground units killed in the Gulf War were the 9 men in Warrior armored combat vehicles, which were fired upon and hit by an American airplane. The pilot mistook them for Iraqi tanks. Friendly fire, a big euphemism for getting killed by your own troops, has been a big problem since the Vietnam conflict, where 39% of all American casualties were caused by friendly fire. That is a total of 23.000 of the 58.299 men and women who were killed back then. The first American casualty in Afghanistan was also caused by friendly fire. Stanley Harriman was killed on march 2nd 2002 by his own troops. The US government initially acted like it usually does: by denying the whole 'incident', but the truth came out after Harriman's upset military friends stepped to the media. The American War Library, a constitution of 'veterans for veterans', has been doing research since 1988 about incidents where American soldiers were killed by friendly fire. New incidents from the past are reported weekly. Shocking is that not all incidents are a real accident. It is known that American pilots get Dexedrine, also known as "go-for-it-pills", to make them feel less tired. Those pills can influence their ability to judge a tough situation and are most likely the cause of the incident in Iraq in 1994 where two American Black Hawk helicopters were shot down by two American F-15s. 26 men lost their lives that day. It's a weird accident, because every pilot recognizes a Black Hawk helicopter and it is well known that Iraq does not have those kind of choppers. Over the last decade, billions have been invested in the development of these so called precision bombs. Unfortunately, not much has been done for the recognition of the own troops. According to Jane's Defence Weekly, a well respected British magazin specialized in military issues, the equipment to distinguish the own troops from enemy troops aren't much different than they were in 1991. Friendly fire has been a problem for all armies, from the UN armies to the Israelian army and the Russian strike force. But the US and the UK are the nations with most losses by friendly fire. Washington has been more open about friendly fire incidents over the last couple of years, but that's only because of the pressure made by the American War Library. The biggest friendly fire incident occured on Hill 282 in Korea, in 1950. Washington has made the information public that 150 British sholdiers of the 1st of Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders died on that hill, because American commanders didn't believe the hill was already taken by the British.... and although Washington's made it public, London still denies it ever happened.... ============================================ ]This is a translation of an article in the Algemeen Dagblad, the biggest and one of the most respected newspapers in the Netherlands. This isn't anti-war-propaganda btw, since the majority of the people here in Holland actually support the war and the government itself has chosen to politically support this war. It's just an objective article to remind us that friendly fire has been and still is a problem in current warfare. source= http://www.ad.nl/artikelen/NieuwsIrak/1048227685494.html registration is free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Originally posted by ^_- thing is. america does not make racial discrimination in the armed forces. get over yourselves. it is done by both countries. it is not something either are proud of. i urge you both to get ALL the facts before you begin to post political propoganda, made up by anyone. yes we hit our own people sometimes does saddam care if he kills a few thousand of his people? no, he actively MURDERS them. errrr luc wasnt comment on the islamic/black guy ... he was complaining about the fanatic that bombed him and 12 others!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodiac Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Don't get me wrong btw, I am pro war. I think disarming Saddam could've been achieved without a war, but this war's necessary to destabalize Saddam's regime to built up a new one. And yes, after this war I'm pro any future wars against other authorative regimes, even with Saudi Arabia although that nation is an ally of the US. I'm just here to remind everyone that 'friendly fire' is a big problem in current warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 most of those friendly fire casualties weren't accidents either. my uncle was ordered to fire on his fellow soldiers during the gulf war when they were stuck in a mine field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 And I'm glad to hear you complain to me about what the US soldiers are doing over in the middle east.....because, you know, I have a lot of control over them..... Yes, friendly fire is a problem, but i'll bet we're not the only country that has this problem, I'm sure that the British will accidentally shoot down a US plane, or shoot some US soldiers, it happens, the entire purpose of camoflage (sp?) is so that NOBODY can detect you. If we could tell that the plane up there was an ally, then so could Iraq. If the plane WOULD have been Iraq's and we would have let it go because it may have been British, and then a British camp got the crap bombed out of it, you would be all over us for that *sigh* I'm all against this war, but your country chose to join us in our little vendetta, and so your country needs to deal with the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 ooh now theyve dropped a bomb in turkey! fortunately it hasnt hit ne1 by the sounds of it doesnt look good for ur flying rights and no my country hasnt chosen to join america ... tony blair has the country is split 50-50 afaik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 And my country is split like, 52 to 48, but you seem to condemn all of us for this war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I heard they have some sort of code on all planes. The code is changed every 13 minutes and if you forget to do that...bad stuff might happen. I have no idea how these codes are used to identify planes, but...who cares. USA has also fired a few missiles on Iran's ground. Oopsie...? According to recent polls, only 15% of us Finns think this war is justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hekx Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I also heard that the ship indentification systems in place for UK and the US maybe incompatible. It seemed the systems were down a lot longer, so the rocket thought it indentified the target as a missle coming towards the ships location. Hopefully they'll be less friendly fire incidents this time around. I hope this doesn't turn out to be WWIII. But I believe Saddam does need to be unarmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodiac Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior If the plane WOULD have been Iraq's and we would have let it go because it may have been British, and then a British camp got the crap bombed out of it, you would be all over us for that *sigh* Well.. that couldn't happen, since Iraq doesn't have an airforce anymore. The small airforce they possibly had, has been disabled 2 days ago. Recent news has informed us that most patriots are not manually fired, they are programmed and are working automatically, because the airspace above Iraq's really crowded. The reason it shot down a British airplane is most likely a programming failure.... and everybody's talking about 'smart' bombs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodiac Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 lol we all made posts with almost the same general info at almost the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Originally posted by Zodiac Don't get me wrong btw, I am pro war. I think disarming Saddam could've been achieved without a war, but this war's necessary to destabalize Saddam's regime to built up a new one. That's not entirely true. USA plans to remove Saddam from power and insert a new "US-friendly" leader in his place. However, it's gonna be destabilized once Saddam is gone - as there's no "Iraqi people" to speak of, he's the only one holding together all the Kurds, Shi'ites and Sunnis together into one nation. Once this war is over, hell will truly break loose. Who's gonna go grab all that oil? Which terrorist faction is going to assassinate the new leader allied with USA? Who's gonna hate USA more than ever for securing yet another market? It's alright that the US don't expect other nations to assist them in their war, but once it's over, it's suddenly a UN matter to rebuild the havoc they've caused? Way to f*cking go. And yes, after this war I'm pro any future wars against other authorative regimes, even with Saudi Arabia although that nation is an ally of the US. And N. Korea, except they have a few thousand guns trained at Seoul, nukes and an inhospitable terrain and mentality towards the US. Once a few nukes start popping on the west coast, hell will erupt. No really, do you expect USA to go on a crusade and remove every single tyrant? Hell no. This war is so obviously not intended to free the people of Iraq. We've all seen how their intervention succeeded in Chile, Nicuragua etc. Does the US have a right to turn other countries into industrialized clones of themself? And my country is split like, 52 to 48, but you seem to condemn all of us for this war. According to pro-war rallies, it's 76% support for the war. According to recent polls, only 15% of us Finns think this war is justified. On the other hand, this guy: ...just got into the finnish parliament by a landslide victory. I'll be damned once the world starts caring about what happens in Scandinavia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Originally posted by Clem well if u desgin systems to hit something moving that fast at that altitude maybe u should design a system to tell what it is ur shooting:mad: Coalition aircraft transmitt a code that other coalition forces should be able to detect, generally reffered to as Identify Friend or Foe. IFF. And it was an anti balistic Patriot missle that shot down the British Tornado, which the Iraqis do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior And my country is split like, 52 to 48, but you seem to condemn all of us for this war. dont get me wrong i dont blame the american people ne more than i blame the british people .... i blame our governments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CagedCrado Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Sith that excuse is no good any more, how do you know there wasnt a REASON why they were firing? there most certainly was. Also what proof do you have to show that the commanders knew the troops were friendly? Friendly fire happens in war. Casualties happen in war. Get over it, dont whine. Maybe if the pilot reported in he wouldnve been shot down. Also nobody cares about scandanavia because your countries have no power. The US has all of the power, britain has power, and you dont like it, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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