Guest Jolts Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Solo4114: Anyway, in terms of the actual animations, I'd love it if the game could be smart enough where your animations actually take place with you rooted to the floor. IE: if I perform a kick, the leg I'm standing on doesn't slide backwards and then plant. I don't mind if someone lifts their leg up and then plants it to kick, but the sliding thing just looks weird. I wonder, however, if this is actually possible in the Q3 engine, or rather, if it is possible, whether it's feasible/worthwhile to do so. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is possible, they did it with the rancor. Waiting for someone point that out, but no one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo4114 Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Originally posted by Jolts quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Solo4114: Anyway, in terms of the actual animations, I'd love it if the game could be smart enough where your animations actually take place with you rooted to the floor. IE: if I perform a kick, the leg I'm standing on doesn't slide backwards and then plant. I don't mind if someone lifts their leg up and then plants it to kick, but the sliding thing just looks weird. I wonder, however, if this is actually possible in the Q3 engine, or rather, if it is possible, whether it's feasible/worthwhile to do so. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is possible, they did it with the rancor. Waiting for someone point that out, but no one did. Ah, well, I still haven't seen the trailer yet. Probably won't unless I get DSL set up here. How big is it anyway? At any rate, if this COULD be done AND could be done in a way that wouldn't somehow screw up gameplay, and still meet the deadline while not sacrificing other issues (IE: sabre damage, newer, more interesting guns, etc.) I'd be for it. Otherwise, it's kind of a minor thing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 as long as i live i will never understand the fanboy mentality. and for anyone who is confused as to the fanboy mentality, it is NOT simply sw fans wanting to make the games more like the movies. it is also people who defend the GAME reflexively. and i will never understand this sort of thing: a: "i dont like jk2" b: "then dont play it or come to this board, and btw i dont like you" wtf? are you guys related to raven? do they pay your bills? does the existence of people who dont like what you like SOMEHOW DETRACT FROM YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE? go look up ad hominem, then learn about why its a sign of mental weakness. it is ludicrous to have the animation speeds not match the run speeds (ie the foot sliding thing). they should match, period, end of story. if the animated run was too slow to match the actual speed they wanted for gameplay purposes, they shouldve changed it, NOT fudged it. its plain lame to have an animation of a slow jog, when the players senses clearly tell him hes moving at max human run speed. and people who say "there are force powers and youre worried about run speed?" truly dont get it, and probably never will. id explain about "suspension of disbelief" and how it relates to storytelling, but something tells me id be wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Posted by Solo4114 Ah, well, I still haven't seen the trailer yet. Probably won't unless I get DSL set up here. How big is it anyway? It's just under 18megs... Still worth it though, IMO Direct link to it At any rate, if this COULD be done AND could be done in a way that wouldn't somehow screw up gameplay, and still meet the deadline while not sacrificing other issues (IE: sabre damage, newer, more interesting guns, etc.) I'd be for it. Otherwise, it's kind of a minor thing to me. Same here, although I think it would be worth spending the extra time on it if they can, rather than getting the game out a bit earlier to please LEC or something like that... Meh, I'll be buying the thing anyway so I suppose it makes little difference to me I just so dearly hope they use something a *little* more up-to-date and inherently capable than Q3 as the engine for the next installment... Raven are good with Q3 tech, and good at adding bits to it, but it still has its limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Just things to keep in mind: 1. James Monroe pointed out that the trailer is made from an old build of the game. And since it's an old build, I'm willing to bet LEC made it, and LEC isn't the greatest at showing the great parts of the game. Wait for a third party or second trailer (remember the awesome PCG British one for JO?). 2. The game still has a long ways to go. They are no where near a beta stage yet, and probably no where near alpha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Good points (remember the awesome PCG British one for JO?)Yes - very well I'd have been stuck if I weren't in the UK, cos there was no way that my 56k at the time would have handled 100megs of trailer... x.x I really hope PCG get another awesome one this time around for JA The LEC one will do me for now, though, since there are several nice things in it to keep my interest for a while... *goes off to watch it yet again* ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Originally posted by 12345678 as long as i live i will never understand the fanboy mentality. and for anyone who is confused as to the fanboy mentality, it is NOT simply sw fans wanting to make the games more like the movies. it is also people who defend the GAME reflexively. and i will never understand this sort of thing: a: "i dont like jk2" b: "then dont play it or come to this board, and btw i dont like you" I can't speak for other people, but I don't mind when people state their dislikes about the game, as long as they are specific about what aspects they are talking about. There are many problems with the game, big and small, and they are certainly a good topic for discussion. The problem is many people come to this board and just ramble on that the game "suXXors" because it won't let them be a "kewl jedi d00d" and complaining that the "lamerz" don't have "honour" because "WTF??!1!1! saber down = PEACE!1!!1". Because there have been so many of these type of complaints, I suppose many of the regulars just get cynical On occasion someone will post that there is nothing good about this game and it is completely terrible. Then they go on about all the problems every time they play. In this case, isn't a legitimate question to ask why they still play the game? Originally posted by 12345678 wtf? are you guys related to raven? do they pay your bills? does the existence of people who dont like what you like SOMEHOW DETRACT FROM YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE? Just like you are free to state your dislikes about JO, people are free to defend it. This does not mean they are on the payroll of Raven. Should I be saying that you are getting payed by Bioware if you say KOTOR will be better than JO? Originally posted by 12345678 it is ludicrous to have the animation speeds not match the run speeds (ie the foot sliding thing). they should match, period, end of story. if the animated run was too slow to match the actual speed they wanted for gameplay purposes, they shouldve changed it, NOT fudged it. its plain lame to have an animation of a slow jog, when the players senses clearly tell him hes moving at max human run speed. and people who say "there are force powers and youre worried about run speed?" truly dont get it, and probably never will. id explain about "suspension of disbelief" and how it relates to storytelling, but something tells me id be wasting my time. See, this is good. You have a specific problem with JO and stated why you don't like. Personally, I disagree that it is a huge deal (my opinion, of course), but I respect your point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Originally posted by Prime See, this is good. You have a specific problem with JO and stated why you don't like. Personally, I disagree that it is a huge deal (my opinion, of course), but I respect your point of view Exactly - that is the type of thing that makes you think, and opens up thoughtful discussion. As opposed to "JKII Sux ... Naw it Rulez ... No way, it really sux, and ur a Raven patsy to say otherwise ... just go back to CS, troll" ... and so on ... I finished watching the 25 minute HL2 video. Boy that looks nice. Not perfect, but very nice. Really good engine - I was impressed by the interactivity. We all know we won't be getting that level of graphics and physics in JA (we do all know that, don't we?), but what I have seen looks very nice. There have been some that say - with regards to graphics/physics/whatever - 'why does Raven shoot for the sky instead of the stars'. Personally, I think it depends on how you define the stars and the sky. Unreal II shot for the stars with its' engine and didn't even hit the sky with the game. I believe that Raven is keeping well grounded with the engine, and therefore able to shoot for the stars in terms of the character builder, saber combat, mission structure and gameplay. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbe M'ko Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Well, I went back and looked at the trailer again. It may not be a real guage of the game, but it looks a lot worse than I remember from last time. Not to beat up on JA, but it just really looked simple. The saber dueling in JO was all about blocking, but in this trailer the jedi just kind of hit each other. The worst part was how it was so dark that you really couldn't get a feel for the environments. The one cool part that I missed the first time was when the Twi' Lek jumps on that guy she knocked down and gives him two sabers in the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Originally posted by Solbe M'ko Well, I went back and looked at the trailer again. It may not be a real guage of the game, but it looks a lot worse than I remember from last time. Not to beat up on JA, but it just really looked simple. The saber dueling in JO was all about blocking, but in this trailer the jedi just kind of hit each other. The worst part was how it was so dark that you really couldn't get a feel for the environments. The one cool part that I missed the first time was when the Twi' Lek jumps on that guy she knocked down and gives him two sabers in the chest. I'd suggest going back and looking at the JO trailer as well. Then you might get an impression of how close these "previews" come to the actual gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 Some understand, and some do not. My viewpoint is inevitable, it will be achieved when JK moves to a new engine. Whether Spider AL likes it or not. BTW AL before you go off on a dictional tangent, I’m not referring to bowing, rpg elements, and all other components that make up a non-competitive fantasizing gamer, I’m talking about the realism in animation, collision and movement. It will be realized regardless once a new engine is utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jolts Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 smood you should define what realism in animations, combat, collision and all other things you have been talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 At the moment I would be satisfied if they just removed the push/pull and grip effects, and increased saber damage so a clean hit is a clean kill. As well as removing the SPARK effects, and orange balls that appear when someone is hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 Originally posted by Jolts smood you should define what realism in animations, combat, collision and all other things you have been talking about. As you wish. I'll give you a simple and clear definition. When you swing the saber, there must never be a time where the saber goes so quick that it seems 'jerky' or seems as if there are frames missing. When I watch a movie duel, that fighting is fast (new duels) which is great, but I'am always able to see the saber, where it is moving. In jk this is USUALLY the case, but many a time the saber fighting is so (inhumanly) quick, that it looks strange. Another really clear example is movement. Movement should be accelerated. I should not be able to move left to right so quickly, and slide. When I move or run, it should be as if I'am moving or running in real life. I should go left and start out quick and then speed to a run, then going in the opposite direction, I might come to a stop and then continue in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Who cares what Smood thinks? If he doesn't enjoy JA trailer or thinks the game will be crap because of ONE trailer (BTW you're really open minded, its only 60% done and you're writing off the game as crap) thats his loss, not ours. Why is there so much debate over what one insignificant gamer thinks? I doubt Raven will miss his £30 for the game anyway when its already guaranteed to be a hit anyway just like Outcast was, or the community will miss his presence in JA MP, the point of this post is, his opinion is insignificant what matters is what you think of the trailer and your initial opinions of the game not Smood's worrying fear of the animations, the game has at the very least another three months in development so everything is subject to change. BTW Raven aren't idiots, to establish or sustain a reputation as a renowned game developer they can't make the same mistake twice, I can't verify that they did but I would bet alot of money they thought long over the criticisms of multiplayer and animations and are sure to erradicate these faults that occured in JO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I am locking this thread due to name calling, and an inbox full of reports. Unless one of you can convince me that you will no longer act like children and refrain from insulting each other, this thread will remain closed for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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