Let's get rid of hp regenerating force powers!(?)

[Luc Solar]

Am I the only one who dislikes healing powers?

 

Remember heal in 1.02? It was a pain in the ass. (In 1.04 with level 1 heal you gain something like 5hp and lose half your force pool, though )

 

Drain in 1.04 --> a quick tap on your drain-button and you got 100hp again.

 

This translates into drawn out, boring fights especially if saber damage is low.

 

Do we really need heal? The maps have powerups littered all over! Bactas, shields, medpacks...

 

IMHO if you get hurt, you should stay hurt. Take out half of the powerups. Take out the dark side heal (perhaps a highest lvl drain kind of power that regenerates your hp's slightly and slowly?). Give lighties a heal that works like the heal in SP: regenerates your hp, but you need to "meditate" for a sec = making you die for certain if you use it while someone's attacking you.

 

This crap with *HEALHEALHEALDRAINDRAINDRAIN* in the middle of a fight is just silly. Who cares whether or not they are hit if they can get their hp's back at any time?

 

As for "laming", these kind of powers are great. Don't fight - simply run away and heal yourself!

[shock ~ unnamed]

Personally I dislike heal and drain.

 

Most lazy/sub par players simply rely on them to give them a chance to "get that lucky shot in" while being able to stay alive regardless of how crappy their defensive game is.

 

However when we disable them on our server people (those mentioned above) tend to simply resort to nothing but "safe attacks". As in ranged lightning and ranged pull throwing.

 

So you're dammed if you do/don't in a way.

 

 

Honestly I say leave them in, improve heal so it can be on par with drain and *make sure there are *plenty of ways to take a guy out in a single shot.

 

That means very strong sabers *and very strong force based combos.

 

btw I didn't mention guns because I doubt either power is an issue for a guy with a rocket launcher...

 

 

There is no reason why a game like jo/ja has to have long drawn out battles.

 

Actually I think in the end this has hurt the game more than anything.

 

People want that fast satisfying kill and have only found themselves frustrated by pounding and pounding away on a guy for 15 minutes straight with nothing to show for it.

 

 

Go spec a game of full force saber only CTF. It's utterly ridiculous how one single flag carrier can have 5 guys chasing him for 15 minutes straight in a tiny little room and no one can kill him unless someone pops off a lucky DFA and drills him.

 

Back in 1.02 sure heal and drain were "uber" compared to now but I personally never found either to be frustrating because of the many ways I could wipe the guy out in a single shot.

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

In 1.04 with level 1 heal you gain something like 5hp and lose half your force pool, though

 

Exactly, so why nerf it even more than it already is?

 

Drain in 1.04 --> a quick tap on your drain-button and you got 100hp again.

 

Exactly...it's far too powerful, and someone can continue to use drain repeatedly very quickly, so it's overpowered and unfair.

 

Do we really need heal? The maps have powerups littered all over! Bactas, shields, medpacks... IMHO if you get hurt, you should stay hurt. Take out half of the powerups. Take out the dark side heal (perhaps a highest lvl drain kind of power that regenerates your hp's slightly and slowly?). Give lighties a heal that works like the heal in SP: regenerates your hp, but you need to "meditate" for a sec = making you die for certain if you use it while someone's attacking you.

 

So now you not only want to nerf heal, but take away the powerups as well? And when you're running with about 5 hp to get that powerup to heal you, the guy pursuing you is using saberthrow, guns or whatever else at their disposal to take you out. Brilliant. Forgive me while I totally disagree with your idea.

 

As for "laming", these kind of powers are great. Don't fight - simply run away and heal yourself!

 

Erm...it's harder than you make it sound to 'simply run away' if you have a determined gunner at your back.

 

 

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

Most lazy/sub par players simply rely on them to give them a chance to "get that lucky shot in" while being able to stay alive regardless of how crappy their defensive game is.

 

That may be true...but so do those with laggy connections. I rely on powerups and heal to compensate for my inability to block effectively when I'm lagging on a server. Perhaps your next recommendation would be that those with laggy connections should not bother playing the game at all...

 

Honestly I say leave them in, improve heal so it can be on par with drain and *make sure there are *plenty of ways to take a guy out in a single shot.

 

I disagree with the single shot idea, but I agree with improving and balancing the heal system.

 

btw I didn't mention guns because I doubt either power is an issue for a guy with a rocket launcher...

 

Of course it's an issue. I use guns most of the time because if I get into a drawn-out saber battle, it's the lag that kills me. At least with guns I have more of a fighting chance, but that puts me at a major disadvantage in melee combat - which is as it should be. But the same powers should be available to gunners as saberists.

 

People want that fast satisfying kill and have only found themselves frustrated by pounding and pounding away on a guy for 15 minutes straight with nothing to show for it.

 

I agree...saber battles can be very drawn-out affairs - unless you are using the 'duel' function, when most of your force power is nerfed and you can't use pickups anyway. I agree that they need to increase saber damage (as I stated in the other thread), so that saber duels can be better balanced and not last forever.

 

However, the problem has been that some people wanted it that way. As I see it, the damage ratios need to change for each MP game type. When Raven has produced patches for JO, the effects have been felt across the board, and it doesn't make a great deal of sense, because each game mode requires different styles of play. In FFA, saberists should be at a disadvantage for sticking to a melee weapon. In Duel...if they want drawn out saber battles, fair enough. The problem is that you can no longer apply the same set of parameters across the board, because it can unbalance other game modes. That's what happened with JO, in my opinion, and I'd like to see them apply different settings for different MP games modes in JA. That way, they can balance all weapons and powers for each particular game types, without nerfing the others.

 

Just IMHO...

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by StormHammer

Of course it's an issue. I use guns most of the time because if I get into a drawn-out saber battle, it's the lag that kills me. At least with guns I have more of a fighting chance, but that puts me at a major disadvantage in melee combat - which is as it should be. But the same powers should be available to gunners as saberists.

 

Nah I didn't mean it like that.

 

What I meant is say you are healing like crazy and all I have is a saber, now chances are I'm going to get annoyed at how hard it is to kill you.

 

Now same scenario but I now have a gun, bang rocket flies at you and you take damage and start healing. I fire another and you die.

 

I just meant it as in it is not as frustrating for a gunner to deal with (the heal/drain) as it is to saber players because a gunner can shoot a guy in the back as he runs to heal. A saber guys options are much more limited when they turn tail and run/heal.

 

And as for people wanting those damage scales lowered, yeah a lot of people did.

However as many have noted people who are generally happy with something don’t voice opinions as loudly as those who are not happy.

 

Add the fact that the two largest player base drop offs happened right after these patches and it’s pretty easy to see that the majority didn’t like what changes were made.

[Jeedii_zaarinn]

if i may put my 2 cents in, we should keep heal however, it cant be available till ur on the brink of death.

 

its a win-win situation really

[Spider AL]

In SP, healing level 1 forced the player to crouch, lower his sabre and meditate, while he healed. This meant it couldn't be used constantly during combat. THAT'S the way it should be in JA.

[boinga1]

/\ You mean level 2 and 3 should be like that too, or that MP powers should mirror the equivilant in SP?

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by Spider AL

In SP, healing level 1 forced the player to crouch, lower his sabre and meditate, while he healed. This meant it couldn't be used constantly during combat. THAT'S the way it should be in JA.

 

In theory yes, but in practice?

 

Personally if it were a frantic type of match like a FFA, I would just use my energy to take out as many people as I could before I died and totally ignore my health.

 

To heal in that manner you would pretty much have to run off and find a secluded corner and in turn take yourself out of the battle/lose kill opportunities/points while others just went on a killing frenzy.

 

If it were a 1v1 type of game, I don't see anyone being able to get away and do that unless they make the JA duel maps the size of FFA maps.

 

But then again I do see having that heal method as having positive effects on the game.

 

Make it a pain to run and heal and people won't try it as often, they will only do it when the rare occasion presents itself.

[wardz]

I think heal should be as per the first level in JO where you crouch for a moment and gain your health...

 

I also am not keen on the idea of healing yourself from the point of death to full health. I would prefer to see a system whereby your health is split into 4 quarters, and if you've been hit a few times you can only heal up to the nearest quarter for each time the button has been pressed...

 

This would mean it would have to be used sparingly, because it is time consuming and its effects slow, this would prevent people spamming it...

 

 

That may be a slightly verbose way of putting it, but I think you get the idea.

 

-W

[Solbe M'ko]

I think that heal, in its present form, should be removed from the game. In the books, etc. Jedi only healed once the danger was gone, so it doesn't make sense to heal in the middle of a fight. Drain should, I think, retain the same effect, but be weakened significantly, this would make heal/drain far less useful in a fight, but just as useful if you're hiding in a corner on an FFA map. I think heal, in a fight, should just reduce the damage you take from certain hits and boost your defence. For example, if you enable heal, and someone kicks you, you won't fall down. If someone grazes you with a blue stance swing, you would lose less health than if heal was not "on". I think that could work for fights, plus the meditation thing when you need to recharge.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by StormHammer

That may be true...but so do those with laggy connections. I rely on powerups and heal to compensate for my inability to block effectively when I'm lagging on a server. Perhaps your next recommendation would be that those with laggy connections should not bother playing the game at all...

 

in that case i would say G.T.H. (figure it out for yourself )

 

course that is only about that one view

[GreenDevil]

I'd be willing to give up Heal if they would bring back Blinding

 

*pokes Luc Solar*

 

mawahahahah

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed:

 

Personally if it were a frantic type of match like a FFA, I would just use my energy to take out as many people as I could before I died and totally ignore my health.

That would be your choice. I on the other hand, would kill as many people as I could, AND if I survived, I'd heal up. Bacta's the healing to use during combat, Force Heal should be a supplement one cannot use during combat.

 

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed:

 

Make it a pain to run and heal and people won't try it as often, they will only do it when the rare occasion presents itself.

That would be the ideal. It's a powerful ability, a permanent bacta tank.

[Master_Payne]

Reduce the damage taken is protect's task, as for heal, I don't mind if they put it in or take it out, I just play 3 modes, No force duel, FFA, if you are killing people like a mad, why bother to heal yourself, and CTF, but in ctf I run to enemy base and just stand there killing and trying to survive (is like a FFA, but 4/5 against you). even in that situation I don't heal myself.

After all is a game, you play to have fun, not to finish 1st or have more frags.

[Luc Solar]

Exactly, so why nerf it even more than it already is?[/Quote]

 

In 1.04 heal is utterly useless. In 1.02 it was useful. Annoyingly useful.

 

So now you not only want to nerf heal, but take away the powerups as well? And when you're running with about 5 hp to get that powerup to heal you, the guy pursuing you is using saberthrow, guns or whatever else at their disposal to take you out. Brilliant. Forgive me while I totally disagree with your idea.[/Quote]

 

Yes. That's the idea. Get hit and die. None of this "sure, I screwed up and got hit 12 times, but who cares 'cause I'll just press my little Drain-button and I'm back at 100hp again, yay!"

 

Erm...it's harder than you make it sound to 'simply run away' if you have a determined gunner at your back. [/Quote]

 

I don't have a problem with regenerating powers in games with guns. No-one can out-run a competent gunner (jump + absorb + speed + whatever) *and* heal themselves in the process. Saber only games are the problem. If the saber isn't lethal, heal and drain should be ditched.

 

I rely on powerups and heal to compensate for my inability to block effectively when I'm lagging on a server. Perhaps your next recommendation would be that those with laggy connections should not bother playing the game at all... [/Quote]

 

Those with laggy connections should be at a disadvantage because, you know... they're LAGGING!

 

But don't get me wrong, if other things change, regenerating powers are ok. (I voted for the light side heal, not banning them altogether.) Who cares if the opponent can heal himself if you can take him down in one shot?

 

What I hate is the idea of powerup-infested maps like Raven or.. ahh...you know, the other similar one where you can not kill anyone with a saber even though they're WALKING from powerup to powerup. If I land a few good hits on someone, I want him to die, not to see him take 2 steps left on a 200 shield and make me hit him 8 more times only to realize that the guy just walked across the 3 medpacks and the bacta that were right next to the huge shield which has just respawned.

 

Less healing powers, less powerups. This translates into more caution and people actually caring whether or not someone hits them in the face with a lightsaber. And if you die, you respawn. No biggie.

[boinga1]

I personally think that if drain is weakened to the level of heal, it's probably be alright. But basically, the same as JO, less effective. Level 3 Heal brings back, what, 50 points max (if you do it twice with full force)? Drain is pretty powerful...except to lightside absorbers.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Master_Payne:

 

After all is a game, you play to have fun, not to finish 1st or have more frags.

Tish and pish, my fun IS to finish first. My fun IS to have more frags. Nothing else is fun.

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Master_Payne

After all is a game, you play to have fun, not to finish 1st or have more frags.

 

 

No wonder why we got stuck with this saber code hypocracy BS in the first place.

 

I think AL said it pretty clear for me.

[Solbe M'ko]

I, for one, have more fun if I'm not whupping players far below my skill level. I like to have a pretty even match, that way the victory is much more rewarding, as I feel a slight accomplishment, as opposed to just trying to beat 10 newbs in a minute.

[yolkboy]

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko

I, for one, have more fun if I'm not whupping players far below my skill level. I like to have a pretty even match, that way the victory is much more rewarding, as I feel a slight accomplishment, as opposed to just trying to beat 10 newbs in a minute.

I also like having a pretty even match. 10 players below my skill level wouldn't be too bad if they were all after me then it might become interesting.

 

Anyways, back to the forum topic... Heal has saved me a number of times. But, as many people already stated, heal is useless interms of power. Drain is way to powerful. If drain were equivilent to heal than I don't mind. Actually, once I think about it, taking force away from opponent and healing is better than light heal. Hmm....

 

In my opinion, I think heal is more neutral. If I were playing either dark/light , I would heal. Absorb, should absorb the dark force. And drain, which should take away force only.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko:

 

I, for one, have more fun if I'm not whupping players far below my skill level. I like to have a pretty even match, that way the victory is much more rewarding, as I feel a slight accomplishment, as opposed to just trying to beat 10 newbs in a minute.

That's probably because you're not interested in self-improvement. I try to train hard enough so that ALL other players are (relative) newbies when measured against me. When I win a match easily against good quality opposition, that's the truly rewarding bit. That's what tells me I've gotten better. That's what tells me my training has worked.

[BloodRiot]

For the light side heal I remembvered a system that will make it powerfull yet very tricky to use... anyone played Aliens vs Predator 2? All those that do play/have played it remeber the preds battery charger. For those who dont I'll explain... the predators ammo for energy weapons is a battery that powers all weapons/gear that rely on energy discharges.... most powerfull stuff drain the battery real quick. There are no energy powerups for the preds... they must use an item that recharges theyr battery to full power... the problem with it is... a pred while recharging can only walk and do a ridiculously inefective jump and he cannot attack cuz he's holding the recharger in his hands... it takes about 5 secs to recharge the battery and you glow like a xmas tree plugged into a nuclear reactor.

 

Ok... my point is... as sugested... heal should be a meditating force power... find somewhere to hide... and risk total sitting duck factor while the hp's are regainned. Also... the force points spent on healing should be more... something like 75% force vs full health recovery at max heal level.

 

Well drain is surely overpowered as well... and the dark side is hardly defensive/healer... so make the healing properties of the power less effective. Drain in fact has 2 uses... drain the foe's force points and heal the player that uses it. In my point of view... the more darksidish thing about this power is the draining part... so to keep things balanced with the aove discription of heal, drain should SLOWLY drain force points from opponent at about 1/2 rate... like you spend all your force points but only drain half the opponents force mana... while only regaining 1/4 of health points.

 

well... as always this is not what ou are gonna see in game... it's just my opinion on how things might become well balanced.

 

Out of topic but I'll just throw thins one in as well... Force lightning besides very effective is extremely annoying in my opinion... it's too effective in my opinion... I'd just make it usable against one opponent at the time at max level and you'd have to aim with the crosshairs jsut as you'd aim with a weapon... by these figures i guess damage could stay the smae or even be improved... force costs as well.

 

Cheers.

[t3rr0r]

Originally posted by BloodRiot

Out of topic but I'll just throw thins one in as well... Force lightning besides very effective is extremely annoying in my opinion... it's too effective in my opinion... I'd just make it usable against one opponent at the time at max level and you'd have to aim with the crosshairs jsut as you'd aim with a weapon... by these figures i guess damage could stay the smae or even be improved... force costs as well.

agreed. the range for lightning is too wide... maybe if it was more like dooku's lightning.

[Emon]

JA is not a mod for JO. JA is not an expansion for JO. JA is an entirely new game. Therefor, many things will be different.

 

And remember, the trailer and screenshots aren't the final game. I don't know why people think they are, but they aren't. It's not coming out for at least another five months, they aren't even in the beta stage yet.

 

And removing heal powers kind of goes against everything the previous games about Jedi and books about Jedi are about, so it won't happen.

[Solbe M'ko]

JA is not an entirely new game. It takes JO and makes some minor changes, then adds new levels and models. Saber combat system? Graphics? Sound design? Level style? I would be greatly surprised if these were more than 20% different from JO. I'm actually kind of disappointed that LEC didn't market this as a stand alone expansion, because it really isn't JKIII.