Force powers and guns?

[Tarus]

I read somewhere that in Jedi Academy you'll have a saber from the get go, which was music to my ears. I hated the other games how you had to play a few levels with weapons as I bought the game for the saber (or more accurately, the swordfighting/saberfighting).

 

Im wondering if anyone has information that ive been unable to find. I know they plan to have a bunch of guns again (sigh) but im unclear as to how carried away they will be getting.

 

In my opinion, for guns, they tend to get carried away. The concussion rifle, which I heard was comming back, is one such thing. Just seems very un-starwars, and besides, what kind of jedi would use that? Im the type who sticks to the saber only multiplay because I want to saber fight, not dodge rockets and watch out for mines.

 

Also, im curious about force powers? Again, in my opinion in the original jedi Knight they got carried away and made the game somewhat stupid. Destruction for instance, seemed to just be a 'build in gun' because they couldn't think of anything else. Im hoping the force powers they provide do not turn the game into a clone of jedi outcast with force, in which case everyone runs around trying to grip/push/pull people off ledges and force lightning and draining left and right. Also the force throwing, good grief. Vader through his saber once in 3 movies and most people throw it as quickly as it gets back to their hand. Hopefully Jedi Academy will leave you vulnerable for much longer if you throw your saber and miss.

 

Lastly, is there any information on stances? I believe I read somewhere that there would be stances for two weapon fighting and the saber staff. Will stances still be light/low damage, and heavy/high damage? Personally I think that system needed a good change as well. The stances were fine but heavy was more like swinging a baseball bat, not a saber fight. Then I again I believe i read about a two handed saber which is like swinging a club, so maybe that'll replace the quick saber.

 

Are there any good information sights for the game? Ive looked around at some but they all basicly say whats found at lucas arts. (Note: im not looking for any warez or hack sites).

 

Anyway, comments?

 

Edit: By the way, I don't mean to insult the game and I hope its not taken that way. I love the series. I just feel that sometimes they make up guns and force powers just so they can say they have them, if you know what I mean. Im the type that would rather have 6 force powers and a really really cool saber combat system rather then 16 force powers, 30 varieties of blaster rifles, and a so so saber system.

[Neverhoodian]

Well, I heard that there's something to the order of twenty different guns or so. Dunno if that's carried away for you. Most of the guns from JO will be there, probably with very few changes done to them. (bowcaster, DEMP gun, E-11) The blaster pistol gets the MotS treatment in that it looks like Han Solo's DL-44. As far as Force powers are concerned, all of the multiplayer Force powers will be available for learning in SP (kinda like assigning Force stars from JK) and you'll be able to choose your alignment with the Force, Light side or Dark side. (also like JK) I haven't heard much about modifying the Force powers, so it's safe to assume they won't be that different. I don't think they're gonna change much as far as stances are concerned for the single saber, but new stances and abilities will be used for the double bladed and dual saber varieties.

 

This is just me, but I'm a bit worried about JA's and JO's inherent similarities. I mean, it does have its benefits in that anyone who's played JO will probably jump right in with little trouble, but I don't want to feel like I'm just playing an expansion to JO. 'Course that's not saying I'm not looking forward to it. I'm definitely gonna get it! (though I'll probably wait till Christmas;) )

[Jeff 42]

FPS

 

First Person Shooter

[HertogJan]

From what I've seen in the movies and screens, JA is going to look and feel A LOT like JO. You still have 3 stances for the single saber and the dual sabers and saberstaff both have 1 stance.

 

The force powers are exactly the same as in JO, with the difference you can now use all the powers used in MP too! But again, I've only heard about 1 new forcepower; sense. There also isn't news about some force power being removed. AND I also know there still is saber throw in the game. At least I read so in different interviews

 

As for the guns, apart from the DL44 blaster and the Concussion Rifle, we haven't seen anything new, so I guess the rest will be the same, although I hope the flechette cannon will be removed

[Crow_Nest]

flechette cannon? But why? its powerful.

[HertogJan]

Originally posted by crow_nest

flechette cannon? But why? its powerful.

 

So?? I hate it, it's just a flakcannon and not very starwarzy! I like the concussion rifle a 1000 times better!! I don't really like the imperial heavy repeater and the rockten launcher either, but they are acceptable... BUT... I... HATE... THE... FLECHETTE!!

[toms]

i always liked the Concussion rifle... it seemed much more starwarsy than the disruptor (star trek) and the flechette and rocket launcher they seemed compelled to include just to make it like every other FPS.

 

Doesn't look like we will get ANY really new powers. While i agree they shouldn't go mad and add in lots of silly ones, i think that they could have added one or two (destruction being a good example, as it could have been done a lot better in this engine)

 

I suppose it is always a balance between getting carried away and adding a load of pointless stuff and not adding enough, leaving it feeling like an expansion pack.

 

Personally, i though the guns in JO pretty much sucked, which is a main reason why people were glad to get the saber. However in JK i still mixed and matched weapons all the way through every level.

[Tarus]

Thats what I mean tom. "What? we only have 3 guns? Oh ok, throw in a, umm, rocket launcher".

 

I never liked that flak gun. Rocket launcher I can deal with. As for concussion and such, I never cared for the fact that a jedi can't block it. If a gun could not be blocked or avoided easily then I would think more jedi would have been dead and boba fett wouldn't have been using a simple pistol.

 

At any rate I know they won't, but wish they'd take out drain, destruction (if it was put back in) and rage. All 3 seem to just be extras thrown in to try and balance the light and dark side. Force protection seems kinda iffy to but meh.

 

Also, shouldn't absorb work on guns to a degree? Darth Vader blocked Solo's shot with his hand, absorbing the energy. While his hand wasn't "real" and it was mechanical....luke got an unsuspecting bolt through his hand and it shot sparks and such.

 

The good thing is Jedi Outcast, overall, was a pretty cool game. With options like no force, no guns, and saber only; it won't be a desaster. Ill definently buy the game.

 

Oh, and Jeff:

FPS

 

First Person Shooter

Try again, its First Person Saber-fighter (or swordfighter if you prefer).

[Kurgan]

If this were an expanded universe novel or a movie, I would assume that you'd only use the weapons of a Jedi, the Lightsaber.

 

However, part of the plot line is that Kyle Katarn (a guy with a reputation for being both a gun-slinger and a competent saberist) is training you. So I see no logical reason why you won't be using guns and he won't be teaching you how to defend yourself with them.

 

 

Also, it should be remembered that unlike the prequel movies, these are NOT generally Jedi who are being raised from birth to be force users in the Jedi Order and all that stuff. They are often already adults or even in middle age when they are taken to be trained, thus many of them will have learned to fight with other types of weapons already... much like Luke and his trusty blaster in the OT (or Mara Jade in the EU).

 

So I think it's perfectly logical to use guns and other weapons from time to time, especially if you are not fully trained and thus can't rely soley on your saber and force powers.

 

Even a fully trained Jedi might find himself in a situation where a gun (enhanced with his force powers) would be more useful than his saber. So I see no problem with it whatsoever... (and that's for SP. In multiplayer we'll have the Siege game mode which uses classes and so there will be plenty of non-Jedi using guns and explosives).

 

i always liked the Concussion rifle... it seemed much more starwarsy than the disruptor (star trek) and the flechette and rocket launcher they seemed compelled to include just to make it like every other FPS.

I love all three weapons, but need I point out that the Disruptor and Flechette Launcher are BOTH straight out of the official "Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology" book? The Concussion rifle was made up for Dark Forces (but since DF is part of the EU, perhaps it will make it into a book someday). The Flechette is somewhat like the Flak Cannon from UT, it's true, but it's still somewhat different, and it's based on a "real" weapon from Star Wars.

[txa1265]

While I find some EU stuff dodgy, I know all of the weapons are in the 'official weapons guide' or whatever ... and I'm OK with that.

 

Tarus: They are implementing a 'load-out' like in SoFII, according to reports, which should be nice in limiting the weapon insanity. I like the sniper rifle, and the imperial repeater, and the Bryyar, but never used much else ... at least once I got the saber.

 

And we've discussed this before, but in terms of [sP], the game is really (especially JA) a TPS - Third Person Saber. [MP] I like the mix of sabers & guns & force powers (oh my!).

 

And Kurgan is right (as he often is ) about the EU view of Jedi being more flexible, as Luke and Kyle are both adept at all sorts of weapons, and Luke has a much less rigid view of things in his academy than the old one on Coruscant.

 

But, Raven have said that you'll be using the saber ~70% of the time in this game anyway.

 

Finally, I see force powers like tools. For the Dark Side, it is about pain and killing. Light side is about knowledge and defence (did I just coin that phrase ). So I see what they have as pretty reasonable ...

 

Mike

[Tarus]

It makes sense. I don't mind guns and tons of force, its just it often gets carried to the point where thats all your doing. I hate multiplayer games like halflife and quake, what I like are the mods that change the rules.

 

WIth all the rocket launchers and force in JO it tended to become just another halflife/quake. The only difference is people had this strange regenerating ammo known as the force and a glowing stick which could be used to knock the projectiles of one or two weapons out of the way.

 

Im a firm believer that if the jedi knows your there...you won't get em with a gun. I believe its the fletchette gun that lets you alt fire thos elittle explosive balls? Well I think that you should be able to force push them away faster and longer then the person can continue firing them. Or at least for a few moments so you can get out of the way. Instead you get one force push and then your overwealmed. Guns like the concussion rifle can't even be blocked or dodged. Using the force a jedi should be able to see you shooting it at them a split second before it happens...meaning there would be a very slim chance you should be able to hit.

 

You know what'd be cool? They should make a blue force colored projectile that shoots out of guns at the same time as the normal projectile. Only it moves faster. So when your playign in multiplay you would actually see the guns course. That make sense? Think of a rail gun in quake 2. You could see a line where it had fired. Simply do something like that only make it look more force oriented (blue and blured) and make it come out and move faster then the guns ammo. So effectivly each person could see where every shot would land before it lands.

 

Stuff like that is what they need, not another way to channel force into a destructive power so that the dark side equals the light side.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Tarus

You know what'd be cool? They should make a blue force colored projectile that shoots out of guns at the same time as the normal projectile. Only it moves faster. So when your playign in multiplay you would actually see the guns course. That make sense? Think of a rail gun in quake 2. You could see a line where it had fired. Simply do something like that only make it look more force oriented (blue and blured) and make it come out and move faster then the guns ammo. So effectivly each person could see where every shot would land before it lands.

 

Stuff like that is what they need, not another way to channel force into a destructive power so that the dark side equals the light side.

 

That sounds quite cool - it'd be interesting to be able to have a 'force sense' active in [MP], which would limit your force pool to 50%, but would allow you to dodge a % of sniper shots, and see the course of oncoming fire as you say.

 

But you miss some of the point - take a Jedi with a saber and an ordinary person with any gun, and you quickly end up with a Jedi standing over a sliced body barely breaking a sweat. Very strong enemies (think Jango Fett) may pose more difficulty, but the Jedi will end up on top in a 1:1. HOWEVER, what about a Jedi with a saber facing an equally powerful Jedi with a heavy repeaster? That is when it gets interesting - up close I'd take the saber, but from a distance I'd bet on the gun.

 

And that's the way it will continue to be unless [MP] comes up with a class called something like 'pawn', and people are willing to respawn every 5 seconds after getting owned again and again ...

 

Mike

[toms]

the reason you can't block the concussion is that it is a patch of compressed air.... so there is nothing there to block. Personally i think it is important there is the odd weapon you can't block.

 

I always hated the level with all those disruptor snipers. That was also unblockable, but you had no sound warning like the concussion, and no prjectile to dodge... we came up with the idea that using force push should detonate the concussion blast WHERE IT IS. I still think that would be a nice compromise.

 

Somehow i never imagined people in the SW universe running around with rocket launchers... but maybe that is just me. Still think the flechette was the MOST unstarwarsy weapon ever, even if it is an offical EU weapon.

 

Why doesn't the EMP disable your shields, weapons and turn off you lightsaber?

 

Having force sense create transparent BEAMS out of all weapons would rule.... bit like the lasers that sniper rifles in Agent under Fire have, warning you of their position.

[boinga1]

*scoffs* Compressed air...hah!

 

Forgive me, but I've never known compressed air to shoot out in a light blue ball, then explode on contact with an object. I mean...let's assume it's possible to compress air into a light blue ball. It wouldn't explode on contact, it'd just slamm into the person and do heavy damage. That might actually be a better way to use the Concussion rifle...give it a slow fire rate, or low accuracy, but let it go through personal shields and deal out direct health damage...maybe 20-40 pts. damage?

 

Btw, the flechette rifle is actually in the "essential guide to weapons and technology", although it functions very differently from in JO.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Tarus

Im a firm believer that if the jedi knows your there...you won't get em with a gun.

You mean like Coleman Trebor against Jango?

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

Also, it should be remembered that unlike the prequel movies, these are NOT generally Jedi who are being raised from birth to be force users in the Jedi Order and all that stuff. They are often already adults or even in middle age when they are taken to be trained, thus many of them will have learned to fight with other types of weapons already... much like Luke and his trusty blaster in the OT (or Mara Jade in the EU).

I love this about the JK series. I like that it follows a slightly different path than the Jedi we see in the Prequels. I love having the option to play how I want...

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Prime

You mean like Coleman Trebor against Jango?

Exactly ... in Ep1 Anakin said 'you can't kill a Jedi' to which QuiGon said 'I wish that were true', and in EpII we see plenty of them die. That squaring off in particular showed what could happen when a well armed and fast acting bounty hunter went against a Jedi trained in the 'diplomat's style' and caught flat-footed ...

 

I love this about the JK series. I like that it follows a slightly different path than the Jedi we see in the Prequels. I love having the option to play how I want...

Even given the way your force powers are chosen for you in JO, this does allow you to make the game fresh each time ... though I have no interest in playing a guns-only SP ... though I took out the two Reborn behind the pillars on Bespin with the Heavy Repeater once for fun

 

Mike

[Tarus]

Think Jango Fett

 

Need I remind you Jango Fett died in the same movie he made an appearence in? I believe he succeeded in burning Windu's cloak, killing a large animal, and catching a jedi offguard and knocking him off a ledge Jango Fett was a joke. Same with Boba since he got his butt kicked as well. In both movies...when the jedi made an appearence they went bye bye (of course the movie didn't actually show boba being killed so...)

 

At any rate.

 

the reason you can't block the concussion is that it is a patch of compressed air

So why can't you use the force to block it? A force push should counter it/ knock it away.

 

You mean like Coleman Trebor against Jango?

Is Coleman the one who got knocked off the ledge while blocking shots? Im not quite sure how a laser bolt has enough force to knock someone back but unless I remember incorrectly...Jango didn't hit the jedi...he simply fell off a ledge when he ran outta room. Id say dooko gave em a push, haha.

 

And yes, I do agree that given enough shots and enough shooters jedi would die. And of course they make mistakes. The thing I was talking about is the number of guns that can't be countered. Im gonna fire my idea off....its something that they could easily put in as a last minute thing if they wanted.

[Darth Meatloaf]

Is Coleman the one who got knocked off the ledge while blocking shots? Im not quite sure how a laser bolt has enough force to knock someone back but unless I remember incorrectly...Jango didn't hit the jedi...he simply fell off a ledge when he ran outta room. Id say dooko gave em a push, haha.

 

I'm looking at the DVD right now, and yes, Coleman Trebor took two shots. One to the upper right shoulder, and one to what appears to be either the neck or torso. They seem to have generated enough force to push him backwards, though that could be because he stumbled.

 

I'll get some screen grabs to show it.

 

 

-Darth Meatloaf-

[Tarus]

Not really needed. Fett fought Obiwan and had to run. Fett tried killing obiwan in a ship and failed. Fett attacked mace and failed. Fett attacked mace again and died.

 

Out of 6 attacks he killed 1 jedi. Or if you prefer, he killed one out of 3 jedi.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Tarus

Not really needed. Fett fought Obiwan and had to run. Fett tried killing obiwan in a ship and failed. Fett attacked mace and failed. Fett attacked mace again and died.

 

Out of 6 attacks he killed 1 jedi. Or if you prefer, he killed one out of 3 jedi.

 

But Fett was an exception - a truly great warrior, who battled valiantly against both Mace and ObiWan ... he was a great warrior with powerful weapons (and a cool array of gadgets) but he was no Jedi ...

 

Mike