Ray Jones Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Carl Shutt We've been over this before, and we have no interest in running our forums by an over-reaching set of global rules. Our autonomy is very important to us. i think we are living on one planet. compare it to ONE big forum. we are all sitting in one boat!!! it makes no sense to stay complete autonome. this way you'll end up standing alone when it's not good to stand alone. individualism - sure. global rules - sure, for a basic guideline! BEING NICE -- first premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 It's nice of you to quote Havoc in your forum Carl. http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1262373#post1262373 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Carl Shutt Exactly. The Harbour is not his forum, and it's not his place to decide what is appropriate there. That's what the MI forums' designated mods are for. --------- We've been over this before, and we have no interest in running our forums by an over-reaching set of global rules. Our autonomy is very important to us. I'll cede my point, only to create a new point. What's the use of a super moderator? If you want individuality, someone with global moderating powers seems kind of pointless and troublesome. Not trying to debate here, I seriously would like someone to explain it to me. That's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Carl Shutt This situation wasn't really about defending that thread. It was a stupid thread, and under the new MI moderation standards, it would probably have been closed due to its utter inanity. But that was a call for the MI mods to make. It wasn't obi-wan13's place to just swoop in and close it, just because he found it objectionable. In my opinion, it was a mistake to close that thread. But since the thread was reopened two days later, I don't see what the outstanding issue is. The issue is not whether the threads should have been closed. I agree with what you said (especially having seen the aftermath) but it seemed very much to me like the only reason the one thread was closed and the other not was that Zoom Rabbit was from the enemy the Star Wars forums. (I'm not sure at all if the thread closer intended it that way, but the comments that followed helped suggest it further.) STTCT: Honestly, Havoc is a very quotable person. And that was a very nice quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Redwing The issue is not whether the threads should have been closed. I agree with what you said (especially having seen the aftermath) but it seemed very much to me like the only reason the one thread was closed and the other not was that Zoom Rabbit was from the enemy the Star Wars forums. I don't see much evidence to support this. Neil was a new addition to the moderation staff at the time, and I think he was just a little over-zealous in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 There is a reason I'm sure of why supermods can close topics in any forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Carl Shutt I don't see much evidence to support this. Neil was a new addition to the moderation staff at the time, and I think he was just a little over-zealous in this instance. I agree. I edited my post to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Carl Shutt Neil was a new addition to the moderation staff at the time, and I think he was just a little over-zealous in this instance. oh. couldshould have been said one month ago. btw. neil's doing 'fine'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Carl Shutt Exactly. The Harbour is not his forum, and it's not his place to decide what is appropriate there. That's what the MI forums' designated mods are for. We've been over this before, and we have no interest in running our forums by an over-reaching set of global rules. Our autonomy is very important to us. But I have seen Mercatfat close threads in the Swamp. Examples: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1250517#post1250517 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1248440#post1248440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 the plot thickens. Yes I would be very interested in knowing why it is viewed as a heinous crime when a Star Wars Super Mod goes outside of his "territory" and closes a thread. However, a Super Mod from another outside forum is perfectly allowed to go and close Star Wars threads? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Being as vague as I can be, because it went on in private forums, merc was fully backed in closing both those threads, edlib. However I should also mention in defense of the actions of the "Star Wars mods" that they cannot view the MI/Mojo/etc private forums - if they even exist. I feel I can mention this because it was made a mocking point in one of the threads I posted earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT the plot thickens. Yes I would be very interested in knowing why it is viewed as a heinous crime when a Star Wars Super Mod goes outside of his "territory" and closes a thread. However, a Super Mod from another outside forum is perfectly allowed to go and close Star Wars threads? I never said that. If the Swamp mods don't agree with these threads being closed, then of course they should reopen them. And "heinous crime"? Nice hyperbole. When obi-wan13 closed that thread, Benny reopened it. That's all. All the complaints over this came from the Star Wars mods, who were outraged that we were "undermining their authority" and "attracting perverts" and other such nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 After re-reading through this thread I felt it was nessisary to clarify my positions on this subject a bit further. Some points, in no particular order: I still believe that the underlying root cause of a lot of these misunderstandings is the basic tension between the two halves of the Lucas Games collective. I don't believe that a little competition between the camps can't be perfectly healthy, as long as it remains clear to everyone involved that it's still a friendly competition. I believe that this line has gotten a bit blurred as of late. It's obvious that some people aren't seeing this as a friendly thing, otherwise threads like this wouldn't keep cropping up over and over again on the same issues. I believe moderators absolutely have the right, and indeed the duty, to close threads in thier own forums and to disipline users they feel are out of line in any way, but should be prepared to explain themselves clearly and without any attitude or sarcasm when they do. They should drop out of character anytime there is official business to do, so that the majority of misunderstandings like these can be avoided. It's important that it should never, ever appear personal. Super-mods should have the right to moderate anywhere they see fit, but should consult with the local mods first so that they don't have to step in in the first place. Again, it should be made clear why that individual felt action had to be taken. Admins should be able to do whatever they want, wherever they want, anywhere on the network if they feel action is needed, without worrying about local mods or super mods. They should try to work through the forum's people first, but if action is warranted, they shouldn't need to defer. As it's been said here before: These forums AREN'T really a democracy... however, offend too many users and it won't be much of anything, since we are all free to take our business elsewhere. The population's wishes should be listened to and respected to a large degree,.. within reason. The regular forum users here are the lifeblood of the network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Carl I wasn't making that deduction from your posts at all. I know you didn't say that. I did. Basically from my interpretation of what happened in those threads. I do think it is funny though that they thought you guys were bringing perverts into MI forums! Silly. Anyways. I just made that observation from what edlib posted. Since I'm not a mod I do not have that inside information that mercat had permission to close those threads. Which is fine by me because I rarely play the silly games anyways. I think it is perfectly okay for Supermods to close other threads outside there forum homes. I think it is very neccesary sometimes. Maybe there is a problem about SW forum mods not being able to go to a private forum with you guys to discuss the closure of such threads and then it would seem more like a unanmous (i can't spell) desicion supported by MI moderators. But this is an old topic and we probably shouldn't rehash since it is obvious I have no idea what I'm talking about because it apparently went on "behind the scenes". Basically what I have been upset about lately is the insults thrown out at members that I feel was abusive and uncalled for. I know you guys don't like us and find it fun to make fun of us, but we dont' go into your forums trashing you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon_Leon Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Basically what I have been upset about lately is the insults thrown out at members that I feel was abusive and uncalled for. I know you guys don't like us and find it fun to make fun of us, but we dont' go into your forums trashing you guys. STTCT, i like each and every one of you. (What was that, Viper ? No, you stay away.. ) Aren't you...pushing the boundaries of generalisation a bit when you presume that mods and supermods think higher of themselves compared to other forummers and therefor bash, insult and generally treat them like slime ? I'm here to keep an eye on things, yes. And even though it may not be a 24/7 thing for me, i find it an enjoyable experience. Not because i can close threads and stuff (oh yes, we sure have had those discussions before !), but simply because it allows you to interact with a diverse set of characters that really develop personae over time. And that to me is what the fun in forums is all about. Can i get an amen on that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefo Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 *Turns into a Baptist Precher* AMEN MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! PARAAAAISE THE LORD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Oh, maybe I was tired and what I said came out wrong. I didn't mean to generalize supermods and mods in general. I like the geebee mods very much etc. I'm very happy with them. If I seem kinda vague it is only because I don't want to be singling any one mod out. That is all. I guess we will just all have to learn to get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I think the real solution to this problem is to kill the supermod class in its entirety, and just giving select people (ie the "owners" of each forum) per-forum moderator and administration ability instead of a global moderating power allowing them to muck in other peoples busines, as well as killing off most of the "administrator" class, leaving the Admin class for only a few higherups in LFN, and the people who do actual maintenance on LucasForums' backend. That way if conflict like this arises again mods can just take it an Administrator, or discuss it in the private global moderator forum, instead of getting into petty fights that involve locking each others threads. Anyway, at this point the thread's gone very off topic. It's no longer about RayJones but is instead about larger issues involving animosity between the two "halves" of the LFN community and the poor chain of command and admin setup we have going here at LucasForums. I'm going to close this thread as it's more than served its purpose, and propose that if anyone is interested in discussing changes to the moderation layout or discussing the duties or necessity of Supermods, they take it to the LucasForums feedback and discussion area where it actually belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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