US attacking this and that...

[Delphi's Clone]

Honestly i think US shouldnt worry to much and should pull all it's troops back home, put em on the borders, and never get into any wars unless attacked. And if attacked just screw over the country not try and go and rebuild it. USA should be totally conservative, and should not give money aid pakages to countrys all over the world, either way countrys screw us over all the time so why do they deserve our money. Also why should USA be the police of the world? We should just make USA really nice with all the saved money and very protected, by putting all our troops on our borders. The world dosnt need us, and honeslty survival of the fittest, we USA have no right to break the natural process.

[Zygomaticus]

The natural process is not survival of the fittest - it's what has become of us. It wouldn't be the 'natural' process, if not. It is in human nature.

 

Personally, I've always looked at it another way. I don't wish to engage in a debate here and I'll try my best to abstain from replying here again, but as the most powerful country in the world, I feel the USA should help other nations. Forms of communication have made this world smaller. We would be a bunch of ignorant, irresponsible old fools if each country 'stuck to its own borders.'

[Clefo]

Ain't gonna happen, the USA has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been one of intervention, we will always have troops somewhere.

 

Although, we SHOULD pull out of: Saudi Arabia (Which I hear is happening), Germany, and Japan.

[swphreak]

I feel somewhat the same way as Delphi. We're always helping countries, yet they hate us...

 

but we should help other countries because it's right. Also, who's going to look out for the smaller countries if we didn't police the world?

[darthfergie]

Originally posted by Clefo

and Japan.

 

Ah, but Japan's constitution (or whatever they call their basis of government) strictly prohibits a Japanese military ever again. So pretty much we are their protector for all of the forseeable future.

[Darth Homer]

The main problem with the U.S. is that we do go out and try to do too much, IMO. The problem is, if we go and do anything, there will be people that hate us because we are "Imperialistic"; but if we stop all together, people will hate us because we won't help anyone, they may label us things as "Isolationists". The real problem is how to do a careful balancing act of not doing too much and also doing enough. I believe we should withdraw most of our troops from Iraq, but not all and keep a careful eye on that region. We should also, try to turn over peace-keeping duties to other countries or, even better, the UN.

 

We also have to remember that the world is becoming more and more united, there is the European Union already in existence and with the help of Superpowers (US, Britain, China, Russia, etc), we can bring up the standard of living throughout the world. We cannot rest on our laurels and let everyone else pass us by. Survival of the fittest pertains to evolution, and those who do not adapt, die. We must be active in the world, but stop trying to put ourselves or our nations before what is best for everyone.

[pbguy1211]

Maybe the rest of you don't realize how well we have it here. A lot of these other countries are piss poor and there'd be complete chaos if we weren't there.

 

Besides, if we weren't in a lot of other places all hell would break loose and they'd be asking for help anyway.

 

Though I do think we need to kill Saddam then get the f out of Iraq double-fast. George has no idea what's going on in the middle east or how to handle it. They're going to turn it into a parking lot all on their own soon enough. The sad thing is the people over there have been so brainwashed for so long that they don't know what's really going on.

[Delphi's Clone]

But see our security is worth more than others countrys piss poorness... i dont think it's worth 1 of our men to help save a country just so they can hate us even more... I think we should stop all illegal immigration and put our troops on the border and defend america... only america.... i dont see other superpowers helpin us...

[pbguy1211]

if we kept everyone out we wouldnt be america anymore... that's what you fail to understand.

[Zygomaticus]

The world was worse off when USA was purely isolationist. You get some, you lose some. It's not like we're completely friendless now. Do you forsee the number of enemies we'd make if we just withdrew everything? That is when we'd have NO 'friends.' World Wars might start up again seeing as the USA won't be there to help...

 

Oh yeah, and with great power comes great responsibility.

 

Couldn't resist...

[Delphi's Clone]

Originally posted by pbguy1211

if we kept everyone out we wouldnt be america anymore... that's what you fail to understand.

 

 

That is very true but illegal imigrants are not welcome one of them could easly be a terrorist, Now legal immagrents would still come in to the country it's just the illegals like mexicans and people from canada that would be stopped...

[Surfnshannon]

If we don't do it...who will?

 

Our country was founded upon the values that we will always stand up for the little people. You can't tell me that the Iraqi People did not need to be freed from Saddam? I'm sick of us going out and helping a country out and then the country starts to pick on us for everything afterwards.

[pbguy1211]

The reasoning for going after Saddam, to me, was suspect. But after finding all those mass graves in Iraq, I was glad we did. Who knows what else he could have done.

 

And some of the 9/11 terrorists were here on EXPIRED visas. To me that means we didn't have the proper government funding going to the right places and the people who needed the resources to check up on these kinds of things weren't able to do so. That seems to be fixed now... I hope.

And you have to let foreign students over here to learn things they wouldn't be able to learn in other countries. Then they can hopefully take back with them their knowledge and spread it, or stay here and live a better life if they see fit.

[Havoc Stryphe]

Originally posted by darthfergie

Ah, but Japan's constitution (or whatever they call their basis of government) strictly prohibits a Japanese military ever again. So pretty much we are their protector for all of the forseeable future.

 

Actually, Japan does have a small military, mainly a small navy and airforce, virtually zero ground troops, but it is only for self defense. According to their 'constitution', Japan cannot declare war without first being attacked.

 

But, for all intent and purposes, you are right, they do rely on America to come to their aid, moreso than their own military.

[lukeiamyourdad]

The reason for going against Saddam were false although I'm happy he's not president of anything anymore. Iraq or Saddam had no link at all with the 9/11 events.

 

I think there are many reasons people hate the US and it is these reasons that should be looked upon:

 

1. Sometimes you help a country, help it to the end. Somalia was abandonned and so was Viet-Nam. Overall, economical embargoes are perhaps worse the war itself, always think about the aftermath. Starvation, diseases, etc. are far more deadly then the battles. It's always there that the US puts his hands in its pockets and says oh it's over lalalala...

 

2. When someone talks about economical help this does not mean put your industries so you can exploit cheap labor.

 

3. The US bullies everyone who don't share the same point of view(not militarily but politicaly and economicaly). When Canada was opposed to the US about Iraq, it started many economical conflicts between the 2 countries and led to loss of jobs. Many Canadian jobs were lost.

 

4. Freedom for everyone. Sometimes it sounds like the US is "Freedom for us, screw everyone else".

[Tie Guy]

luke, please, for future reference, wait until you can make sense to say something.

 

The US sends billions, billions, of dollars to foreign countries in medical supplies, food, and other neccessities every year, more than any other country by far. Don't talk about the US abandonning any country, because those countries (and they are very few) wouldn't have anything without the US's aid.

 

Also, the US doesn't "put" businesses in other countries to exploit cheaper labor, so i don't know who possessed you to say that. If private companies wish to relocate their private business, they can do so, and oftentimes at a considerable loss to the American people, i might add. The US tries to stop such migration.

 

About Canada, if they won't support us, why should we support them? You make it sound like we had no reason to be upset with Canada and did it out of the blue just to screw them over. Canada and their people can hold any opinion they desire, and we Americans can do business with anyone we desire. Canada doesn't have some right to our business. And those jobs you say were lost would obviously have been absolutely nothing if it weren't for the US in the first place.

 

And who are "screw everyone else," people. Is it the Iraqis we just liberated from a tyrannical dictator who tortured and killed them?

 

 

The simple fact is, that without the US, this world would be a lot poorer and a lot more dangerous. Maybe you don't agree with the methods, but the results are undeniable.

[lukeiamyourdad]

1. I don't trust a country who spends $400 billions for its military intead for the welfare of its people.

 

2. The government doesn't stop them and the big corporates do whatever they want even exploiting kids in third world countries.

 

3. Many countries part of the UN do receive economical help. At the vote for war against Iraq all those countries voted for the war. If that's not bribery I don't know what is.

 

4. The US is always late on his economical aid for Afghanistan...

 

5. The US ambassador in Canada said that "Canada is the US' best friend" Bush forgot to mention us as one of the countries who supported the US after 9/11. Best friend...

 

6. Why would we join a war that has nothing to do with us? Why would we send our underequipped guys in?

 

7. Countries without huge armies are better and offers their citizens better lives.

 

8. If the US wasn't there another world power would have been. The world is still too poor.

 

By the way, when I went to California, the US customs knew everything about me...when I went to France, they knew no ****. Just looked at the Passport and that's it...

Example of "Freedom for you screw everyone else's".

I'm not a citizen of the US! Where's my privacy?

[Tie Guy]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad 3. Many countries part of the UN do receive economical help. At the vote for war against Iraq all those countries voted for the war. If that's not bribery I don't know what is.

 

It's called "loyalty," something your beloved Canada obviously doesn't know much about.

 

 

By the way, when I went to California, the US customs knew everything about me...when I went to France, they knew no ****. Just looked at the Passport and that's it...

Example of "Freedom for you screw everyone else's".

I'm not a citizen of the US! Where's my privacy?

 

Well what if you were a terrorist or a known criminal or drug trafficer trying to get into the country? Should we just let them in after only checking a passport?

 

So they know things about you; only peope with things to hide have anything to fear.

[lukeiamyourdad]

There's a difference between standing loyal to someone for what is right and sucking up.

Would you stand loyal to Hitler if he gave you cash?(I know a little extreme but still)

Standing up for your ideals and the welfare of your people is by far more important.

 

I don't have anything to hide but still it proves my point that the US cares no **** about other people's privacy. If I was falsely accused they would no everything about me and coome hunt me down.

 

I believe there are other methods of stopping terrorists or criminals on the borders then invading the privacy of the citizens of other countries.

[swphreak]

I don't really care what anyone else says. I'm happy living in America. Heck, there are people who risk their lives to live in America. I'm just lucky to be able to live here.

 

 

and it wouldn't bother me if I went to some other country and they had some background check of me. i don't really have anything to hide. I guess we should just forget about customs and just let everyone come in.

 

and should we just bring all our troops back and let another Hitler or whoever come to power? I'm sure we could bring our troops home and become Isolationists again. Let the other side of the world kill each other.

[Delphi's Clone]

Ok just what luke said was a GREAT example thanks buddy!

 

Ok see most europeans and other countrys we aid think the way he dose. So why should we aid them they dont deserve it.

 

Also yes i agree some of the world would be a parking lot without us.

 

And why lookout for welfare when military is more important. If terrorists attack we slaughter them good deal end of story. If a person is poor in america it's his own fault but i personally dont think the regular people who work hard for their money should give others who dont work their hard earned cash.

 

Also America is a free country, companys can do what they want. Now what you are suggesting look.

 

Social welfare

Restrictions on companys.

 

Well that sounds allot like communism to me, and you know that that stuff dosnt work.

 

And i feel totally secure knowing that my country knows everything about everyone. It's a good thing and about the only way to track down fanatic scum. And if you have a better idea please share i am sure the US would appriciate it if you really did have a better way to stop terrorism.

 

 

And if half of the world started killing eachother would we care? Yes

 

Should we care?

No

 

The fact of the matter is Americans are WAAY to nice. Honestly their is nothing more that many europeans wish than to see USA fail in somthing. They are often jellouse (some arnt), and cant accept americans have easyer lives than them.

[pbguy1211]

Please, any country that hates us is very jealous. It's really that simple. Jealous of what? It could be a number of things. Mainly the power and $$$ we have. Not to be arrogant or anything, but when we kept interviewing people in the mideast as to why they hate us, I can't seem to ever find a legit reason.

 

And while I'm not for communism, I think that all people having some form of basic things in life isn't asking a lot. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. You just don't hear about the poor all that often because the rich ones own the media outlets.

 

Why is there no national health care?

 

Why can the rich right off so much crap on their taxes that you KNOW is BS.

 

Why does an executive sitting in his office get to keep his 7 figure bonus and 20,000 other people get laid off?

 

Yeah, that's right... that's fair...

[lukeiamyourdad]

pbguy is totally right. The rich are always gettin richer and the poor poorer due to the innaction of the government.

The rich own the companies, the companies pays a LOT of money for presidential campaigns.

Now I don't think some of you know what politics are.

Why would a guy who owns a big company (such as New York's mayor Micheal Bloomberg) would go into politics?

Why would he suffer the pressure of politics for a much lower salary?

Doesn't make any sense does it?

 

Well you know it certainly isn't out of the goodness of their hearts or their "will" to make the world change. None of them are intellectuals(except Woodrow Wilson but that was a long time ago). They own big companies, are being paid a lot of money by other big companies so they can become leaders and make laws, taxes for those big corporates.

It's a well known fact.

One big example is "First Energy" the company mainly involved with the big blackout.

They gave about 900 000$ to the Bush presidential campaign...will the government investigate the company seriously? Obviously not.

 

So the capitalist saying you do what you wanna do and if you can make money doing it, do it should have been different. "Do what you want to do, if you can make money money doing, do it, unless if it's off other people's arses".

Since those big companies are paying the president, they will be able to do almost everything they want.

So the US companies taking advantage of the third world country obviously isn't countered effiencently.

 

In other words, the corporate litterally control a part of the country.

 

pbguy- I believe that what you see through the media is pretty much the voice of extremists. Even when interviewing some random citizen, they have to say what the extremists are saying 'cause they don't want to be found dead the next day.

 

Delphi- Yeah let's go back to despotism and watch warlords struggle to take control of the country...

[Havoc Stryphe]

Here's a thought, fellas, the entire world, including the United States is a product of human nature. All forms of government are subject to failure eventually due to human nature. There are billions upon billions of people on this planet, the majority of which could not, and/or will not, be able to fight their own human nature, the very inner most desires of our ID's (Greed, power, sex etc..) long enough or completely enough to affect real change in our world. In most instances the groundwork and foundations of a corrupt world are so inlaid and so well established that virtually nothing could change them at this point.

 

I know it's a sad outlook on life and our existence in this realm, but it is sadly the truth of our situation. We can argue, we can shout, we can debate until we are blue in the face and yet the world will remain vastly unchanged.

 

I once thought as you did, that the ideals are possible if only people would join together and strive to attain them, but unfortunately the human race as a whole is destined to collapse upon itself and writhe in it's own failures. (This truth remains virtually sound throughout all faiths and cultures, including my own belief of Christianity) Mankind will continue to dig her own grave and we can do nothing but watch and lament or watch and make the best of the time we have. The choice is yours alone to make.

 

You want to affect real change than seek to do so in your immediate sorroundings and environments. That is where you can have the most effect, but to shout about the sad state of affairs of the world (Read: Politics, Health Care, Governments, War etc) is to waste your breath on things that are, fundamentaly, a lost cause.

That's breath that could be used to tutor a less fortunate student; mentor as a big brother/sister; neuter/spade a dog or cat; Help an old lady across the street; recycle your cans, bottles, and newspapers; tell your family you love them; or even just help a cat out of a tree. That's how you can affect real change and by doing so make a real difference.

 

The world is nothing more than the collective grouping of our individual personalities, what kind of attitude are you contributing?

 

Just food for thought...

[Tie Guy]

Why is there no national health care?

 

There is. It's called "work." You get a job, you get healthcare, simple as that. People too lazy/uneducated etc. to get a fulltime job don't get or frankly deserve healthcare. I realize, of course, that plenty of people are looking and deserving of jobs yet can't find any, but that's how capitalism works. Work hard, and you eventually will get a job, wherever it may be.