ThunderPeel2001

Wow. That's an interesting tidbit... Well I guess it was the director being inexperienced after all (which again, I'm sure comes down to budget constraints). Love this! Yes, I started thinking about maybe inserting the Peter Chan/Steve Purcell backgrounds from the hi-res scans we have of their original artwork, but... we hardly have any when you look at how many have actually been released, and you wouldn't be able to hear the MT-32 music. So it would be a weird mix. Still I wonder if we could improve the backgrounds with the few images we have, even in the original game. Better compression algorithms these days!

Yep, I know. I actually asked Dom this a billion years ago on Twitter because I wondered how his Curse Guybrush could be so flawless and perfect to me (and the other games, too actually), but his SOMI Guybrush could be off to me. (Don't worry, I asked in a very nice, roundabout way -- I wouldn't want to insult him!) He absolutely confirmed what you suggested: He delivered the lines exactly how he heard them when he played SOMI (and had imagined them for years). So yeah, it seems he gave the performance he wanted and was happy with. Just a different interpretation to what I'd imagined, I guess. Of course, that doesn't mean a director couldn't have nudged him in a slightly different direction towards things he may not have considered if they'd had the time. I still have the non-voiced version of SOMI to keep me happy, either way. And I still love Dom's work elsewhere.

Yes, it's true that nobody thought the lines were going to be performed. And maybe they would have edited the dialogue differently to suit voice performers if they had. But it's also true that this is what actors do... A great actor can turn awkward dialogue into something sparkling. (As I said before) I've seen my own clunky writing been transformed by the magic of acting before -- and I found it incredible how much subtly and nuance can be added. But actors need time to get there, especially ones new to the series, which I don't think they had on MI1:SE because the budget was apparently non-existent. (I actually find this whole topic quite interesting and I've been around the performer world a little, so if you don't mind me rambling on a little...) If you've ever done any performance training, the skill to make anything work is something I've seen performers specifically train in. For example, one exercise I saw in LA literally had one performer improvise a scene, while the other had to read lines from a completely unrelated script (eg. Pulp Fiction) in response to whatever the other person said, and then make those lines work. (And no, they weren't allowed to change a single word.) It was an impossible task, but it was designed to flex that muscle: Make anything work. If actors didn't have this skill, then they'd only ever be as good as the dialogue they were given, which would suck for them because 90% of the stuff they have to read is written by people who are as bad as writing as me. Especially in video games (no offence to anyone here, but most games have terrible writing). I've seen actors bring things to life in ways you couldn't imagine before they did it (at least I couldn't). It blows my mind -- I find it to be an incredible talent. If you still think I'm wrong about all this, consider one more thing: Everyone agrees that Earl Boen's LeChuck works, even in the MI1:SE. This is because Earl Boen freaking nailed it. It's not because he had an easier role to play than everyone else, it's because he's an extremely talented voice actor. He got the character, he got the nuance and he executed both perfectly. And most people love Dom's performance, too. Again, he had time to prep: He knew the game, the character, the lines, the context... In short: I blame the production values of MI1:SE, not the style of writing (although I agree that wouldn't have made things easier). I don't blame the voice director either (Darragh O'Farrell also did Curse of Monkey Island -- so clearly he knows what he's doing). I just don't think they had the time to get it all right. The performances in MI2:SE were substantially better across the board, too. More time, more budget = better performances. I guess what I'm saying is: I think we need a MI1:SE:SE

Listening to the video I linked to above, Armato seemed off in the MI1:SE to me. His Curse Guybrush was always chipper and upbeat, which worked wonderfully for me. His energy carries the performance. Guybrush is unflappably optimistic, and story wise SOMI Guybrush should be at his most upbeat. But there was something off in that performance... Like the director didn't tell him to brighten the line readings a bit, or they just went with his first take. Maybe it's my imagining. For example: "I dunno, I kind of like 'Guybrush'". In my head it's the unflappable optimistic Guybrush saying that. Which is the source of the humour of the line for me: Making a very silly name seem reasonable. But in the line reading they went with, Guybrush sounds like he's had his feelings hurt. Not how I imagined it:

Yes, I heard them again recently (for the Amiga thread). They were "generate pirate voices" but still probably little better than the MI1:SE? I seem to remember one being significantly dopier than the other, for example. But given that the Caribbean would have been a mix of different European cultures, there was a real opportunity for at least variation through the accents, but anyway... I'm glad I'm not alone with my thoughts on the voice work in the SE. I know people talk about dialogue designed to be written vs spoken, but a great actor can turn clunky dialogue into something sparkling (and teamed with a great director, you've got even more chance to make that happen). I've seen my own clunky writing been transformed by the magic of acting before -- and it really something incredible how subtly and nuance can be added, elevating everything you've written. The actors seemed to miss all the humour in MI1 -- and I don't necessarily blame them. It takes time and money to do things well. Classic example of a bad delivery: "My name is Mancomb Seepgood". The humour from the line (for me) comes from the character's face falling when he delivers his name. He's gleefully mocking Guybrush's name but then has to concede his own isn't any less silly. Without that context (which a director needs to provide), the actor will just the line without any subtext, "My name is Mancomb Seepgood" (see below). Brutal

That's some serious Google-Fu! Did you manipulate the RED channel to remove the coastal lines? That's what I would have tried.

I never got off Melee. It was just so misjudged that I had to quit while I still had good memories of the original intact. Apart from Guybrush, LeChuck and The Storekeeper (as I say I never got off Melee, so there may be others) the voice casting was so off. Everyone secondary character was doing a stereotypical pirate impression and performances meant the humour was lost. (Even the usually perfect Armato seemed off at times -- as if they rushed him through the lines or picked his worst takes.) The new interface was awful to use. The animation felt horrible. Guybrush looked terrible. There were graphical glitches throughout. They messed up jokes... sigh. It was brutal. Beyond fan patch remedy. The backlash felt deserved with the first SE (despite the best intentions of the creators -- I'm sure they believed they were doing good). Perhaps it was budget constraints, I don't know. Thankfully they got a lot of stuff right in the sequel. Even a die hard like me enjoyed it.

I'm tempted to boot up an Amiga emulator and walk around Scabb in real time just to remind myself what I patiently sat through without complaint. I bet my modern, instant gratification self, would be absolutely horrified.

Wow. So they did make some effort to reduce disk swapping then... I think when Largo walks into the bar and spits had to be one of the worst disk swapping moments in Amiga history. It's an interesting problem actually. So if they can move things to other disks, I wonder if they could have reduced the number of swaps dramatically if they'd duplicated content, but increased the number of disks they distributed? (If only the Amiga had had HD disk drive support!)

Beymer is a special soul. I have a special place in my heart for him. At the Twin Peaks festival in 2002 he screened a crazy documentary about himself called "Whatever Happened to Richard Beymer?". I think it shocked a few (understandably), but I was one of the people who thought it was brilliant. It was about how shy he is, and why he hides behind a camera all the time when he's not acting (hence his wonderful photos from behind the scenes on Twin Peaks). It went to some REALLY revealing places. He's a talented artist and filmmaker... and the documentary... It was very brave. The film used to be on IMDb, but in the intervening years it disappeared from his filmography. I can confirm it DOES exist! (If anyone is Googling this in the future looking for scraps of evidence.) But I doubt it could never be commercially released... The next year I got to get to know him a little more. Kooky guy with an amazing spirit. (Come on, Ron...)

I enjoyed it immensely. I'm just wondering where we can go next! 😄 I think I might just start reading this thread from the beginning again...

Judging from the recent turn in this thread, Ron needs to give us something new to obsess over soon or we're going to go insane

Maybe you just haven't played the right version yet So which is the best match of audio and graphics?

Hmm. I played the Amiga version and I definitely remember mixing different coloured drinks! (I was stuck on the spit contest for ages.)

Creators wired that way should avoid reading anything. David Lynch avoids all reviews. Why? Because: "A good review is never good enough, and a bad review will kill you."

Ron once again wearing his Big Boy Pants. So glad he's helming this project, I have a feeling it would have crushed a lesser mortal. Thankfully I think Ron has been around long enough to understand that when you're creating something you had no choice but to have faith in your own decisions... it's what you're bringing to the project after all. Thankfully I don't think any of the comments are going to change anything at all. All comments are based on previewed content, after all, not the final game. And by the time people have the finished product in their hands, it will be too late for their comments to have any effect! Keep going, Ron!

Damn, this is getting complicated. Can someone explain to me what the best version is and how to get it?

It's weird. I remember everything but the stuff about Governor Marley. I wonder if THAT was in the Amiga version? Hmm...

I know exactly what it means. I think a lot of people do. Basically what we've seen so far has the faint whiff of a Flash game. I don't see what's gained by trying to claim other people's opinions on something as subjective as aesthetics are "nonsense". It's piling negativity on top of negativity, and is precisely why the GG comment section got so toxic. Ron decided to mention that he doesn't like the DOTT art style. Is he "wrong" for not liking? Should he be worried about hurting Peter Chan's feelings? Opinions are fine... it's how you express them. Can't we just let people do that without trying to incite a mob? I have a feeling it's going to be shit show again... although Ron is deliberately taking his time on this one. Presumably the longer people wait, the more their expectations will go down? Maybe?

Well that would be a shame

Ah wow. I don't recall ever seeing that dialogue before. Either I'm just getting old and I forgot or I assumed they would have repeated the same song. Thanks!

Something else I've spotted... Guybrush has a random list of excuses if he's caught outside of the Bloody Lip kitchen after getting fired: You're supposed to be cooking. I took my break. It's the law. The knives needed sharpening. I went out for a smoke. I was out of milk. I had to go to the bathroom.\255\003Don't worry, I washed my hands. Uh, I had to buy some eggs. I had to go to the grocery store. Nice try.\255\003But not good enough.\255\003You're fired. Again, not sure I ever noticed that?

Given the recent discovery of the removal of the word "midget" in the special edition when you try to pick up Wally, and the above surprise change (albeit apparently unintentional), it's made me wonder if there's any other Amiga changes we might have missed? Is there a way to compare the scripts between the Amiga and DOS versions of MI2? I'm really intrigued if there's any differences we've never spotted. Edit: I just found this script dump. Presumably from the DOS version: http://www.lltvg.com/wiki/Monkey_Island_2:_LeChuck's_Revenge/Script_dumps/en_full And I immediately spotted some dialogue I've never seen before? Is this in the game? From the Bart and Fink conversation: OK, that's enough. Aw, I wasn't done. Oh, I wish I could par-lay\255\001Some French with Governor Marley.\255\003I'd say to her, `Voo-lay-voo?` OK! That's enough!\255\003No songs about Governor Marley. Looks like Guybrush is still carrying a torch for the Governor. Too bad he can't even talk to her in English! Sorry, Mr. Sensitive.\255\003The only other songs I know are dirty ones about Governor Marley. Me too.

I think it's fine to make a post about differences between versions of the game. It was a very interesting discovery about the removal of the word "midget", for example. I never knew that. I just think it was put in the wrong thread? No idea why it was added to this Loom one.

Yes, exactly this. Ron even made the point of saying how he disliked the DOTT art style. It's not wrong to dislike an art style. But it is wrong to a) act like a jerk about it or b) act like a jerk towards those who don't like it. And the worst comments I've seen have been directed to those who otherwise expressed fairly innocuous (but negative) opinions. Someone loves it? Someone hates it? It's fine. Just let it be. I'm glad Ron owns a pair of Big Boy Pants, frankly, because thankfully he's pretty much taken it all in his stride. Now please bring on the new stuff, Ron and Team, because every free moment I'm checking to see if there's been any news!