ThunderPeel2001

I personally think the Voodoo Lady was just playing the role of ominous mystic in the first MI. I didn't take her premonitions to mean anything more than a writer trying to hype up the reader (in a half jokey way -- "You will see things best left unseen", etc.). However there was a rumour that the "child's fantasy" ending was planned for the first game, but Dave and Tim talked Ron out of it. And when they got to MI2 they didn't have an ending, so they just went with Ron's crazy idea. I don't know if that's true, but I'd sure love to ask Ron and Dave. If it is, then maybe the Voodoo Lady's words actually were referring to that ending? 🤷‍♂️

Ah yes, that's what I was reading (actually this: http://amr.abime.net/review_8 and this: http://amr.abime.net/review_694 -- but it basically points to the same thing). A couple of other things I learned: Amiga Power's reviews were so much better than other magazine's. And wow. Some of the dreck that passed as a review in certain magazines... I don't think I noticed as much when I was 12. And um, when I started writing this I had in my mind a small piece that literally lamented why games weren't funny, and now I can't find it after all. Dang.

Yep! I was literally reading contemporary reviews last night, so it's all very fresh in my mind. It was, just as you say, extremely interesting! I'll pull out some of the quotes I read while I can still remember them.

Sure. But what's wrong with pointing outs the facts against it?

This. A thousand times this. Everyone has forgotten the context. Back in 1990, most adventure games were Fantasy (with a capital F) and they took themselves seriously. VERY seriously. They were mostly dour, dry and humourless. They were unable to laugh at themselves. (They were also unforgiving. (Didn't pick up the red berry on the first screen? Tough luck, you needed that to beat the big bad in the final scene. Now you have to start over.) And often impenetrable: 'Oops, you used the wrong verb. You needed to "hurl" the axe, not "throw" it. Game over.') The Secret of Monkey Island was a reaction to all of that. It's why it made such a dent in the videogame landscape. It was a glorious breath of fresh air! It was FUN. It was FUNNY. It didn't take itself too seriously. It was accessible and forgiving. All the fourth wall busting jokes, the silly anachronisms, they were just a reaction to contemporary adventure games. The whole genre was ripe for someone popping its pomposity. Hell, the whole industry needed some humour injecting into it. If you go back and read contemporary reviews, there was often comments about the lack of humour in video games. And even debates as to why that was. Monkey Island was an oddity: a genuinely funny video game. But now we're examining it through the prism of today's video games: As if humour was everywhere. As if there was some master plan with the jokes they selected. As if they said, "let's change this joke to an anachronistic one to hint to the user that this is all a fantasy". Everything they did was because it made the developers laugh. That was already rock and roll in itself. Not one contemporary review made mention of the anachronisms because those sort of jokes are staples of broad comedy -- especially comedy set in historical times. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single comedy movie that was set in historical times that didn't feature at least one anachronistic joke. (And if you did, it would be the exception that proved the rule.) Here's a list: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/AnachronismStew/FilmsUsingRuleOfFunny

Yep, you are right. Interesting! Guybrush : What's so scary about this LeChuck guy? Estevan : LeChuck was a fearsome pirate. He tried to impress the Governor by sailing off to find the Secret of Monkey Island™. But a mysterious came up and sank his ship, leaving no survivors. We thought that was the end of the fearsome pirate LeChuck. We were wrong. Stan : This here is the famous "Sea Monkey." --The only ship ever to make it to Monkey Island™... ...and come back with anyone aboard left alive. Or, should I say, anyTHING. You see, two previous owners of this ship were two adventurous pirates. They set off, like many before, to find the legendary Secret of Monkey Island™. And, like many before, they disappeared forever. Their fate--a mystery. Almost as mysterious as how this ship returned to Mêlée Island™ without a single human aboard. Some claim it was sailed back by a crew of chimps. Captain's log, March 10th. First mate Toothrot and I have been searching for Monkey Island™ for over a month with no success. The directions we purchased on Mêlée proved to be a recipe, not a map as we had believed. Captain's log, March 12th. I wish Toothrot would take a bath. Captain's log, March 17th. I wish Toothrot would stop snoring. Captain's log, March 23rd. Toothrot is really starting to get on my nerves. I figure it's only a matter of time before we come to blows. Captain's log, April 2nd. As a gesture to restore our friendship, Toothrot offered to fix dinner tonight. Captain's log, April 3rd. I don't know how we did it, but we've arrived at Monkey Island™. Both Toothrot and I passed out from the soup he fixed last night. When we awoke, Monkey Island™ was sitting off the bow. Captain's log, April 4th. Toothrot and I filled the rowboat with supplies and are ready to set out to Monkey Island™. We are both excited at the prospect of being the first civilized people to learn the Secret of Monkey Island™. Captain' log, April 5th. We had to turn around and return to the ship. Toothrot forgot to go to the bathroom before we left. We'll set out again tomorrow. Herman : Well, I sailed here with a friend of mine twenty years ago. We hoped to discover the Secret of Monkey Island™. But my friend met with a horrifying and tragic accident... ...which claimed his life... ...and I couldn't sail the ship back by myself. I trained a bunch of chimps to crew the ship and sail it back to Mêlée Island™. They were supposed to get help and come back for me... ...something must have happened.

Yeah, it's actually very anatomically correct. Whoever drew it was copying a real model/drawing, or just knows their anatomy. The inclusion of costal cartilage (never knew the name of it before, thanks Ben!) really pushes that for me.

That looks the opposite of robotic to me... A fleshy head (with ear wax) connected to a skeletal body underneath. It never once crossed my mind that it was supposed to be metallic. It's anatomically correct! Is it true that Grossman supposedly said the secret was a giant robot monkey? (Hence Monkey Kombat) I just never understood that. Exactly. It's the title of the game, so it's fun that Guybrush mentions it, but it's never mentioned again. And when he gets there he discovers a giant monkey (which presumably gave the island its name) which leads to a hellish underworld. Other than Guybrush stopping and saying, "So THIS is the Secret of Monkey Island!".

You know, that was a question I've never worried about. Although (now I think about it) I think Ron has been guilty of poking the flames of it, making it seem like more than it was. I mean, surely the secret is just that there's a portal to hell on it that you enter via a giant dead monkey? Why have people assumed there's more than that (unless it's an explanation as to WHY there's a giant dead monkey that leads to hell on it?)

And will only continue as we get older and more forgetful. LucasArts: The gift that keeps on giving!

Unfortunately you can't really make it into a 2D game and keep the same mechanics. They've really tried to focus hard on things that work in the 3D space, so I can't see how it could work in 2D. Sorry! (All this is revealed in the seriously late Mojo review.)

I agree with you @fentongames. I thought Tales attempted to do some interesting stuff. I remember I really enjoyed it. I think it's sort of forgotten or ostracised now. I can only speculate as to why: Possibly because it's not something people grew up with. Possibly because in people's minds it wasn't from an "official" source (LucasArts or Ron Gilbert himself), despite the fact that Grossman was in the room, and Gilbert himself apparently offered some input. Also, some of the adventure game die hards still haven't gotten over the fact that Grim Fandango was in 3D, let alone two Monkey Island games. For some reason they feel 3D destroys adventure games. And finally maybe it's just a bit harder to get up and running compared to the first three games, so people play it less? (You can't just download it and run ScummVM, in fact I don't even know how I'd go about playing it again if I wanted to.) I think it deserves more love generally. Oh and I found this interesting quote from Ron in the depths of the Mojo archives: I wonder if anyone has ever asked him about this version??

I tried, but apparently Zuckerberg likes it when people are scammed on his platform...

I finally got around to reading the last bunch of comments... I think I was expecting the worst after hearing other people's impressions. I think the biggest problem was probably just how endless they were. You get the feeling that it would have gone on forever if Ron hadn't turned them off. Sure, there were a few assholes in there, making sarcastic comments like "I know this is a joke, Ron, you'd never do this to us!", but on the whole it was fairly cordial. There weren't any direct attacks (unless I missed them). I even saw our Rum Rogers trying to politely argue another POV. More than anything I could see Ron getting tired of seeing them endlessly pile up all day, every day. Better to just pull the plug until the game is out. It's true that direct creator access has changed what creators have to endure these days. People get very passionate about the company I work for. We get a lot of shit from die hard fans sometimes. It never bothers me because it's just their honest opinion -- it's not personal (although with Ron, it's more personal, as he's generated a one-man brand). I personally feel lucky to work on things that people care so much about. And I'd rather face that passion, even when it's overwhelmingly negative, than be a position where we're trying to convince people to care. "There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." The only time it bothers me is when it's objectively wrong: Where people are angry with us for things we haven't actually done or are guilty of. I hope Ron can see it the same way, but with it being his game, his brand, his name, the pressure must be higher 😕

Another bit of key information on what we can expect! It sounds like Ron has decided to be mischievous after all. No neat bows on this ending.

This one definitely hasn't been taken: Monkey Island 7

Battle for the Escape from Beneath the Conquest of the Planet of Monkey Island?

Ah cool. I've never seen it mentioned anywhere (that I recall), but maybe it was mentioned. Especially in reviews of the time.

As one of the people who didn't like the art style when it was revealed, I have to say you're absolutely right. There's no objective argument here, it's purely subjective. *I* didn't like the art style, but *I* wanted the music and controls modernised. Really *I* just have to suck it up and hope I enjoy the final game!

When I played it again recently I wasn't sure if it was the devs just making it slightly easier to solve the puzzle as time went on. I guess it can be both. Either way, it is, as you say, a really cool little thing.

Something else about the Amiga version I just came across on the HOL: "Recording scenes"? I've never heard of that feature before? Was this in the original releases?? Was it unique to the Amiga?

I doubt there's any real bad blood. I get the feeling that Ron is generally too stoic for that sort of thing. And Dave doesn't seem to be the type to harbour grudges. Of course they're all just people too, so I'm sure they've occasionally had problems, like anyone does. I remember Tim himself describing how he was a jerk to work with during Day of the Tentacle, for example (in Rogue Leaders).

Bear in mind that Ron didn't need to put that comment about DF in his About section in the first place. I have a feeling he'd be completely honest if asked, no matter what the reason (because I seriously doubt the reason would be anything that bad, plus he's always forthright).

Yeah. It’s incredibly subtle in the VGA version. Almost imperceptible. But it’s very clunky and noticeable in the Amiga version (which I grew up on). It’s my interpretation that it’s supposed to represent Indy’s eyes “adjusting”. No idea if that was the dev’s intention, it just made sense to my 14 year old self

I wrote that in the Amiga thread (Although I’m sure I’m not the only person who noticed it.)