The Return of Kick (among other things)

[JaledDur]

Originally posted by Jah Warrior

duel se

 

Actually OmniMod had it, and Duel SE came after that. But I'm glad they decided to impliment that function as well.

[JaledDur]

Originally posted by CaptainJackZ

This is what a lot of us have been saying all along. I still don't understand people's complaints about it. If it' an option I would think that would make everybody happy. Because as an option it gives people the choice. Kick or no kick. Dfa costs force, or it doesn't. As options in console I think this would be completely fair. Lets just hope the folks at lucasarts think so too:)

 

Yeah, I'm not sure what Raven was thinking not doing it this way. Other than maybe they wanted to force some kind of uniformity between servers.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by Jah Warrior

right well let's dispell a myth here and now.

 

Being able to kick all the time and kill people laying on the floor did NOT make you a "skilled" player in JK2, What it did do is it made you a lazy player that was exploiting a weakness in the games coding.

 

The Jedi Knight series of games should be about saber skills not kung fu!

 

Wanna kick buy a PS2 and Tekken...

 

quite funny how people like you complained about ground kills and how they weren't "meant to be there" but raven never touched it, and actually added a way to kill people on the ground

 

also mentioned in the strategy guide is killing people after a knockdown...weakness...maybe, on your part.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by t3rr0r

why not just learn to use the new kick... if anything, it's easier than the flip kick.

 

because there is nothing to "learn" you just hit a button and it happens...that and it has no real use in ctf.

[Spider AL]

The clan i'm in is sponsered by a North American company and is organising a ladder with a cash prize. So in essence, yes.

So in actuality, no. Ty.

 

The issue isn't whether kicking would improve your particular choice of game mode. The issue is that if Raven listened to every whiny person who wanted a patch that they were convinced would "improve" their respective ideas of the game, we'd be back in 1.03ville.

 

I loved FFA in JK and JO. If FFA was crap in JA I wouldn't go running to Raven to demand that they patch it, I'd accept it and move on to another darn game mode. It's a different game. You're not asking for NG CTF to be patched in to Grand Theft Auto, are you.

 

CTY was crap in JO. Solution: Play something else.

 

NG CTF is crap in JA... (I'll leave aside the point that it was crap in JO too) Solution, learn to duel. Learn to run and gun. Learn to play Street Fighter, but learn SOMETHING else.

 

The constant. CONSTANT infantile demands for patches that change this and change that and change the other is driving me insane, personally.

 

Mod it if you must, though more mods would merely fragment the community. But don't whine about patching.

[t3rr0r]

Originally posted by Rumor

because there is nothing to "learn" you just hit a button and it happens...that and it has no real use in ctf.

and this is different from the flip kick, how?

[the weiner dog!]

Originally posted by Jah Warrior

right well let's dispell a myth here and now.

 

Being able to kick all the time and kill people laying on the floor did NOT make you a "skilled" player in JK2, What it did do is it made you a lazy player that was exploiting a weakness in the games coding.

 

The Jedi Knight series of games should be about saber skills not kung fu!

 

Wanna kick buy a PS2 and Tekken...

 

I could also make the argument that people who never progressed beyond NF dueling only did so because they lacked the dexterity to compete in a game type that required more than the 4 basic movement keys and one attack button.

 

 

Jah no offense guy, but you self admittedly do not play Full Force saber only.

 

I can tell you with total certainty that if you and I were to meet in a server and I were to load up a bot in a FFA and then proceed to do several complex force based combos on that bot and then tell you how to do them and match what I just did, you would utterly fail if you tried to do the same.

 

It would take you quite a while to even be able to do the combos, let alone be able to develop the ability, reflexes and strategy so they could be used on a live human opponent with success.

 

Like anything, practice and experience makes perfect.

 

All game types, be it guns, ff/so, nf/so take practice to master and all game types require a serious level of skill to master.

 

Saying that just because you don’t agree with a persons usage of knocking you down then finishing you off makes them unskilled, really does come across as kind of ignorant and pardon the expression, “noobish”.

 

 

When I duel NF and kicks are enabled I know better than to initiate certain swings and lead-ins that leave me open against a kick user.

 

You should too if you call yourself skilled.

[Comm539]

Its not a single whiny person. Its the enitre s/o ctf community.

And whining has a did work in the past with 3 patches for JO. We just want a patch to make our gametype (one that you don't play) playable. If your sick of reading our requests, don't read them, they're marked clearly enough. Pure and simple.

[Ildon]

Kick wasn't abusive, it's just the fact that nobody knew that evasion is also a technique that can be used. Put it this way, when 2 idiots are in a saber fight, and one starts kicking, the guy being kicked could, and always could, run away. The damage didn't even need to be nerfed as much as it was. Problem is, the games, and Star Wars in general, attracts children and idiots alike, a general audience that makes up "people who suck at games". When they start crying "nerf", and when the people crying make up well over half of the people who play the game, then they patch it and make the game worse.

[Comm539]

I agree that this is the unfortuante situation. But we want kicks to be toggleable, so competetive players can turn them on, and 'casual' players never need to see them again.

[[fk]myth.]

"Move onto another gametype"

 

"CTY was crappy in JO, people moved on"

 

Was the CTY community as big as the S/O CTF Community? This is one of the most competetive gametypes in JO, and everyone was hoping in JA, but Raven screwed the gametype over. Now we're asking them to FIX that gametype, and that is considered whining? No my friend, whining is "Kick lamer!" "Saber down no attack!" "PULL THROW WHORE!!!" When a gametype in a game is COMPLETELY ruined to the point that the game is a stalemate everytime, it makes me wonder why raven even kept S/O CTF in the first place. Maybe they didn't test it well enough to realize how foolish removing kick and rage-dfa from a gametype that was solely dependent on them, and LOWERING the damage of normal sabers, and implementing eye candy moves that do **** for ctf really was.

[BloodRiot]

How could they cry nerf if they didn't knew about it.

 

Raven didn't change a thing after the demo was out. It was removed long before.

 

Even though it IS a legal option... FF SO CTF is an error... it's a game that very easily ends in a draw. But there is a way to counter it...but only if you up the saber damage in the server config. By doing so you are making the saber effective in thsat particular game type without even the need for a patch or a mod.

 

No one cares for dramatic duels in ctf anyway.... the objective is the flag period.

 

To be honest I dont have anything against the kick being in personally. But I totally hate people whinning about a patch riht on top of the game release. It's benn done and it was proven to cause more ill than good. Communities broke apart, players left (some with were right and some were not).

 

I admit I didn't knew how customizable the game was until the later days I played JO. Just mess with the cvars for your own server.

 

I still think (personally) that FF SO CTF is lame cuz of its propensity for stalemates... the gun factor would change alot. It was quite diferent playing with gunz and servers in CTF... in fact it was the only game type I even used a gun... also liked the isntagib servers.

 

The people complaining surely at least realise that the saber is useless apart from being a shield in CTF FF NG. Abolish the SO servers and play with gunz... and If you come up with the "i dont like gunz" escuse...then my friends, you are scrubs (interesting reading back there about scrubs indeed) for you are denying your own victory.

 

But I will respect your POV's anyway... just respect mine as well and realise that whinning for a patch when it's not needed is a turd comming down the pike... and when a patch comes and the community gets divided and the game looses cuz of that.. that's when that same turd hits the fan.

 

IMHO... Raven are way too nice for their own good. They are in my book one of the best game companies nowadays. But they really should close their eyes to these requests and simply make their own decisions based on professional opinions.

[Ildon]

Uh, the "I don't like guns" is all well and good, because Lightsabers and Force Powers are supposed to be, and always have been a better choice.

 

Fine. So Lighsabers aren't one-hit kills. Whatever.

 

You can/should be able to block every type of gunfire with either a Lightsaber, the Force, or a combination of both. It has ALWAYS been that way in the Star Wars universe.

If you suck at avoiding gunfire, that's one thing - but avoiding all gunfire with "Jedi Skills" cannot be done, because people think that guns are sweet. To well over half the people playing the game, they just wanted to play Counter-Strike with Star Wars skins. I'm appaled at the amount of people throwing up "No Force" servers, and the lack of "Saber Only" servers.

[SonGohanX]

This thread went to hell pretty fast. lol

 

Its obvious that some people don't play Saber only CTF, and thats fine, but telling them to "move on to a different game type" is rather silly.

 

When there is indeed a community behind a mode of play, and that mode of play has a serious flaw, I don't think there's anything wrong with the community asking the developers for a solution. Especially when it wouldn't necessarily affect anyone outside the said community.

 

No, I don't think Raven should cater to every little piss and moan, that would only create more problems. I do however, think that they should investigate serious balance issues when they are discovered.

[the weiner dog!]

Originally posted by SonGohanX

This thread went to hell pretty fast. lol

 

Its obvious that some people don't play Saber only CTF, and thats fine, but telling them to "move on to a different game type" is rather silly.

 

When there is indeed a community behind a mode of play, and that mode of play has a serious flaw, I don't think there's anything wrong with the community asking the developers for a solution. Especially when it wouldn't necessarily affect anyone outside the said community.

 

No, I don't think Raven should cater to every little piss and moan, that would only create more problems. I do however, think that they should investigate serious balance issues when they are discovered.

 

Thank you very much for that, no joke.

 

It's nice to see at least one person understands what is going on here with these posts all the competitive players are making.

 

And people that is all we are asking.

 

There is a whole great big competitive community out there and the bottom line is this game basically makes competition play impossible for us in it's current state.

 

To be played on a competitive level a game needs to be able to expand and have options for the players beyond simplistic button mashing flashy saber moves that are ineffective against smart and skilled players.

 

 

 

Think of it like this:

 

If in Jedi Academy there was only 1 saber stance and 2 basic swings (like in Jedi Knight) do you think people would be happy?

 

Of course not.

 

They would wonder why the hell the game was over simplified to the point of being almost child like.

 

Oh sure I could make the argument that it is now more "movie like" and it would "take more skill now because no one could spam one hit kill moves" but would any of you really buy that argument?

 

Of course not.

 

See our point now?

[Prime]

Originally posted by JaledDur

Yeah, I'm not sure what Raven was thinking not doing it this way. Other than maybe they wanted to force some kind of uniformity between servers.

But isn't this what competative players are asking for too? They want uniformity. Otherwise a mod would definitely be the way to go, because you would get exactly what you want, and it wouldn't interfere with other players. Isn't the only reason you want a patch because you want uniformity?

 

Whether you go with a togglable patch or a mod, you may still run into different servers with different rules. Especially if there is more than one toggable option. I'm sure there will be competative players that are going to want to be difficult and demand games be played with certain things off. You may end up right back to where you started with the mods. At least with the mods you have the control to get what you want. With a patch you get what is given to you, and you can be sure that the competative community won't be happy with everything that comes in a patch. I'm just not convinced that a toggable patch will solve all your problems.

[Ildon]

Spamming one-hit kill moves is actually easier to avoid because of their predictability, than morons running in circles/circle-like patterns/random turns swinging their saber around. It doesn't take more skill now. It somehow takes less.

[Mordred]

Originally posted by [div3rse.syn]

And to those who said "being in a clan doesn't make you good". You're right. Practicing this game with a team that knows what I'm capable of and I know what to expect from DOES make me better than you. Why? I put the time in. If you did you would become better too, but you didn't. So stop talking like you know what the deal is. You don't.

 

hmm u like to call other arrogant and yet u put a statment like that.

 

i said being in a clan does not make u good, which is true, but some people think it does.

 

but how can u say u are better than me, and that u put more time in. u have no idea who the hell i am, or how much i play my games.

 

so before u call other arrogant take a look in the mirror

[lllKyNeSlll]

a great game but front kick and side kick would greatly improve it because in duels ff its very hard to kill another smart player. Sabers don't kill in 1 hit. One simply has to strafe jump around his opponent while draining to avoid death making endless matches for each point.

[Jello123]

Originally posted by Mordred

hmm u like to call other arrogant and yet u put a statment like that.

 

i said being in a clan does not make u good, which is true, but some people think it does.

 

but how can u say u are better than me, and that u put more time in. u have no idea who the hell i am, or how much i play my games.

 

so before u call other arrogant take a look in the mirror

 

haha cuz everyone in the ctf s/o community knows him

 

 

you could go into a s/o server and say " MORDRED IS HERE" and theyd be like.."stfu"

[Mordred]

Yeah but in a no force game sabers are fine as they cant heal, but if u put kick back in we will get the kick spam like before.

 

but what it boils down to is not being able to kill (or atleast damn long fights) because saber damage is to low and force powers to high.

 

so why add the kick back in?, just balence out the force powers and sabers.

 

tone down heals and drains a little and beef up the sabers a little

 

whats the point of a saber based game where kick is your main weapon.

[Mordred]

Originally posted by Jello123

haha cuz everyone in the ctf s/o community knows him

 

 

you could go into a s/o server and say " MORDRED IS HERE" and theyd be like.."stfu"

 

Well for starts, whos saying i used the forum name in the game, plus i never mentioned anything about this game, i was speaking in general.

 

also just because i dont play ctf s/o makes me crap and i couldn't take him in a saber duel???

 

u presume to much

[[fk]myth.]

Originally posted by Mordred

Yeah but in a no force game sabers are fine as they cant heal, but if u put kick back in we will get the kick spam like before.

 

but what it boils down to is not being able to kill (or atleast damn long fights) because saber damage is to low and force powers to high.

 

so why add the kick back in?, just balence out the force powers and sabers.

 

tone down heals and drains a little and beef up the sabers a little

 

whats the point of a saber based game where kick is your main weapon.

 

Kick isn't the main weapon, but when faced with a good FC and an energizer, it's the ONLY weapon. We just wan't this gametype balanced out the simplist way possible and screwing with all the sabers and forces.... why not just add kick. And about kick whoring? There are ways to block it you know. Try trick rolling, or push when he comes at you if you want to avoid kick. It's not like kick is an uber cool move that is unblockable and that when someone means to kick you, they are GOING to kick you. Kicks are S/O CTFers way of life, we know them inside and out, and there ARE ways to counter them.

[Spider AL]

And whining has a did work in the past with 3 patches for JO.

Yeah, look where that got us. Ha, you prove my point so well...

 

If your sick of reading our requests, don't read them, they're marked clearly enough. Pure and simple.

Personally I'm sick of your requests existing at all.

 

Its obvious that some people don't play Saber only CTF, and thats fine, but telling them to "move on to a different game type" is rather silly.

 

When there is indeed a community behind a mode of play, and that mode of play has a serious flaw, I don't think there's anything wrong with the community asking the developers for a solution.

 

Let's make this clear once and for all: There's a Jedi Outcast No Guns CTF community. Since NG CTF is apparently rubbish in JA (It was in JO as well, but who's counting) there should be NO Ng CTF community in JA. JA is not a mod for JO, it's another game. Let them go and play JO NG CTF.

 

There IS no JA NG CTF community, just a bunch of people who can't let go of what they happened to like about JO.

 

Especially when it wouldn't necessarily affect anyone outside the said community.

It sets a bad precedent, and rewards insipid whining. Nuff.

 

Nice post Bloodriot.

[the weiner dog!]

Al no offense but you really need to stay out of this unless it directly concerns you.

 

I know you like to pick apart peoples posts and dissect every little detail of them for the sake of the argument but this is really a topic that you both know little about nor are involved in.

 

I'm sure you have been the great and glorious leader of [FW] for many moons but the bottom line is, if you and [FW] tried to play these teams on their turf you would be utterly crushed due to a total lack of knowledge in this game type.

 

That goes for both Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy.

 

I play all types of Full Force saber only.

 

All types being duel, CTF, FFA and TeamFFA.

 

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I have forgotten more about the mechanics and strategy in that game type than you will ever know.

 

But on that same token, I would never dare to tell someone who was a gunner with the same level of dedication and skill to his game type how things should be in the would of guns, if for no other reason than he's far beyond my level of experience in that game type.

 

In North America, Full Force saber only was (and was primed to be again) far more popular in competitive leagues than all weapon game types.

 

Now while you may not agree with that in your view of what things should be like, but in this thing we call reality that’s simply how it was.

 

 

Over here the full weapon ladders dried up and died due to a lack of players/clans yet the full force saber only community was having company sponsored multi-clan tournaments up until just a few weeks back.

 

AL normally I agree with a lot of what you say, but in this case you are commenting on something you have no serious experience or vested interest it.

 

And as such your opinion holds 0 weight this time around.