Solo Saber Nerfed Thread

[traj]

Originally posted by Speedo AL

How immature and patronising. What a shame.

 

Reminds me of every single post I've read from you. Guess you're rubbing off on me.

 

Originally posted by Speedo AL Premature patching is historically bad for any game it afflicts.

[/b]

 

Too bad we're not talking about patching in this thread. Find the right one please. You're spewing your anti-patch nonsense in every thread intended to discuss gameplay. Give it a rest.

 

Originally posted by Speedo AL

 

Dyehead's intent is clear from all his posts.

 

Agreed. His intent is to talk about game play with other people who play the game.

 

Your intent is crystal clear as well. But in here, we are discussing things that people have noticed about game play. Not having some underground rally for patch support. Lose the conspiracy theories.

 

Cmon Al, can't we have one place to DISCUSS things in the game that people NOTICE without having to hear your drivel?

 

I knew you'd understand, thanks.

[lilJedi]

since Ive been here I like spider AL. he seems respectfull and intelligent most of the time, im not sure why he has chosen to be so sarcastic as far as this discussion goes..

 

but anyway, i think the problem is not that the single saber is nerfed in any way...but just as was stated, that it is easier to just click fest with a dual or saber staff because of all the spinning, and with 2 blades in each case, it has a longer reach in terms of strike distance, and a double effect. where as one blade might miss, the other one is going to come around soon and hit.

 

i said that to say that these sabers just make things easier for a player, especially a new player or old players who still are not that good with a single saber. therefore they go with the easy solution of the dual and staff.

 

you just have to be really skilled with the single to compete with them, and realise they have two and you have one...and fight to suit accrobatics and out manouvering have a lot to play. remember your not just trying to swing your side at them from the front expecting you'll get a hit or a damaging hit and expect to win... your point is to move to the side, and slash where there saber is not, and the next best thing is it will only be partially deflected.

 

it seems to me like you wish you could just use the single saber and swing and hit. no matter where you swing, if you go head on slashing away...but remember what i said above...you'll always lose in that circumstance.

 

if you want to be traditional like me...and i use the single...then dont just press the left mouse button while moving into an enemy.

 

the only disadvantage it has is one blade. however, if raven find something they think they can do with any mechanic of it...i leave that to them

[dyehead]

That's why I asked for you to specifically steer clear of this thread, Al.. But your ego won that battle apparently.

 

Thank you for the most recent posts re: single saber damage.

 

It appears as though others have noticed the same things I have regarding this, and I really appreciate you all giving me concise information regarding this. Having info this precise makes it heaps better and easier to understand exactly what you're trying to say

 

So the concensus so far is that people are noticing that single saber damage is:

a) less potent than dual sabers and the light staff

b) seems to have worse defense than dual sabers and the light staff

c) the specials for the single saber are nowhere near as useful as those for the dual sabers and the light staff.

 

Thanks agan.

[Comm539]

And the combo limit on a single saber. There isn't a combo limit on duel or staff and since your outnumbered with blades, I don't think this makes sense. 3 combo limit on staff/duel sabers would be better imo.

[Agen]

Originally posted by dyehead

So the concensus so far is that people are noticing that single saber damage is:

a) less potent than dual sabers and the light staff

b) seems to have worse defense than dual sabers and the light staff

c) the specials for the single saber are nowhere near as useful as those for the dual sabers and the light staff.

Yet most of the 'good' saberists 'I see' are single saberists. Who cares if it is less potent, worst defence, if the players who CHOSE TO USE IT can win (They made their choice, it wasn't forced upon them) then what is your problem?

[dyehead]

I suppose it's frustrating to be carefully timing all of my swings, and have some random Padawan with a light staff or dual sabers bounce along and kill me with one hit *completely randomly* which happens far too often.

[Spider AL]

traj:

 

Reminds me of every single post I've read from you. Guess you're rubbing off on me.

How unoriginal, accusing the accuser of the same crime. It won't wash. You really should clean up your act. You may be playing to your friends, but you're just showing yourself up with all these flames.

 

Too bad we're not talking about patching in this thread. Find the right one please. You're spewing your anti-patch nonsense in every thread intended to discuss gameplay. Give it a rest.

Heh heh, this thread is intended to discuss what Dyehead thinks needs to be CHANGED about gameplay. It's clearly designed to add impetus to your flawed quest for a premature patch. As such, I'm here once again to maintain balance.

 

I knew you'd understand, thanks.

You're quite welcome. As long as you continue this ill-advised patch lobbying, I'll understand.

 

Dyehead:

 

That's why I asked for you to specifically steer clear of this thread, Al.. But your ego won that battle apparently.

You can ask me to do anything from... join with you in your attempts to ruin the game, to... wear a large hat, but I'm obviously not going to comply. My presence here is necessary to help foil your misguided attempts to change the game into JO. Besides, I came into this thread with a genuine comment. All the flaming in the world won't stop me making it. Keep trying though, if you like.

[dyehead]

You must realize that you're not really thwarting anything, as this thread is to bring people's attentions to the problem, I have nowhere DEMANDED that they change anything or PATCH THIS NOW in this thread.

 

I have made suggestions as to how I think things should be as opposed to how they are, I have pointed out balance issues that I believe to be flawed. Your presence has turned this into more than it was designed to be.

 

You're saying that you don't think Raven is competent enough to patch something wisely? You keep berating their coding abilities through and through, Al. Continuously pointing out someone's flaws is hardly the way to earn their respect. I'd be surprised if actual Raven employees didn't ignore everything you've posted.

[BS87]

Now i'm not calling anyone a noob, but i've seen various posters in here that act like the dual sabers and the staff are unholy and godlike, and refer to them beeing based of hte blue stance, or actually beeing able to change stances with them. You need to play with your enemies more, both the staff and dual sabers are stuck in yellow stance.

 

Also, i dont think there is a limit on the combo's for the staff and duals, because from what i've noticed, there isnt really and combo's. There is the swing you get when you hit w+attack, and the one you get when you hit strafe+w+attack, and 1 or 2 others that happen inbetween those two. Though i'm not sure if this is correct. Hope my thoughts helped ^_^

[traj]

Originally posted by Spider AL

traj:

 

How unoriginal, accusing the accuser of the same crime.

 

Unoriginal, maybe. Absolutely true, yes. You are condescending and patronising sir.

 

Originally posted by Speedo ALHeh heh, this thread is intended to discuss what Dyehead thinks needs to be CHANGED about gameplay.

 

Wrong again. It's designed to discuss what Dyehead has NOTICED about gameplay. You took it the extra step, because YOU decided to.

 

Originally posted by Speedo AL As long as you continue this ill-advised patch lobbying

 

I didn't hear a patch mentioned until you brought it up ole chap.

We were discussing gameplay.

 

Originally posted by Speedo AL

All the flaming in the world won't stop me making it. Keep trying though, if you like.

 

You too snuggles. I don't really understand why it's ok for you to flame but not us. If calling people whiners isn't a flame I don't know what is.

 

More of your hypocrisy I guess. Maybe your brain is FRAGMENTED. Look it up. Then put your thoughts where the belong, in the appropriate thread, take a hike, and spare us your jibber jabber.

[Prime]

Originally posted by dyehead

You're saying that you don't think Raven is competent enough to patch something wisely? You keep berating their coding abilities through and through, Al. Continuously pointing out someone's flaws is hardly the way to earn their respect. I'd be surprised if actual Raven employees didn't ignore everything you've posted.

Actually, I think Raven hs learned a boatload about patching from JO. From the Dev diaries and comments that I have read, they seemed to realize that JO probably would have been better off if they had only released bug patches instead of gameplay patches (things like the DFA collision detection, etc.). Not that they can't make competent patches, but because it is impossible to please everyone. And often when they actually post somewhere about gameplay, they say that most of the requests can be handled by cvars and things of that sort anyway, and that modding the game is the way to get what you want.

 

All I'm saying is that sometimes I kind of doubt that there will be a gameplay patch at all. There may be bug patches, but at the very least I think Raven will a lot more hesitant to alter gameplay this time around, especially changes based on demands from one particular group (regardless of how those changes would help said group).

 

I don't have any facts to say there won't be a patch, just a feeling based on what I have seen...

[dyehead]

Originally posted by BS87

Also, i dont think there is a limit on the combo's for the staff and duals, because from what i've noticed, there isnt really and combo's. There is the swing you get when you hit w+attack, and the one you get when you hit strafe+w+attack, and 1 or 2 others that happen inbetween those two. Though i'm not sure if this is correct. Hope my thoughts helped ^_^

 

Thanks for the input--

 

You can make 4 swings with a single saber.

 

You can make unlimited swings with a light staff, and I believe the same holds true for the dual sabers (I haven't tested this extensively, someone please help me with this one)

 

While those stances appear to lack combos, they more than make up for it in pure damage potential.

 

As I stated previously, the thing that raises my brow the most, is when I hit someone 4x with a heavy slash, and they come at me with one dual saber strike or one light staff twirl (non kata) and kill me in one hit.

[Spider AL]

Dyehead:

 

You're saying that you don't think Raven is competent enough to patch something wisely?

Hey, you're the only one who's said that. That must mean you believe it. Shame on you for insulting Raven!

 

To be perfectly honest I think Raven is the most qualified entity to decide what gameplay changes to make... It is YOU I consider totally unqualified, Dyehead.

 

traj:

 

Unoriginal, maybe. Absolutely true, yes. You are condescending and patronising sir.

Yet again, you flame me. Saddening, but ultimately ineffectual. The more names you throw around the worse you look.

 

Wrong again. It's designed to discuss what Dyehead has NOTICED about gameplay.

It's designed to discuss what Dyehead wants to change about gameplay. It's designed to add momentum to a stalling call for a premature patch.

 

You too snuggles. I don't really understand why it's ok for you to flame but not us. If calling people whiners isn't a flame I don't know what is.

Is that the best you could come up with? I suppose you couldn't find a quote of me directly calling anyone anything bad... I can find a few quotes of you calling people something bad, though.

 

take a hike, and spare us your jibber jabber.

Nooo, but thanks for the invitation. Maybe next year.

 

Remember, premature patching is bad for games. We don't want Raven to prematurely patch THIS game.

[Jello123]

Is that the best you could come up with?

 

asking that question is like asking to be flamed

[g//anarki]

Why is it that Al seems to stop by on every thread that talks about problems in JA and tries to prove everyone wrong by picking apart their posts and correcting spelling errors and miscalculations? You're really just asking to be flamed. gtfo and go play the game instead of spending so much time worrying that Raven will patch the game "prematurely" (oh nos!)

 

No one is asking for a "premature" patch. Reporting gameplay flaws and dislikes is an essential thing. If no one did that, we won't even get a patch at all. In your opinion, does 3 months have to go by for people to start reporting flaws?

[Ikhnaton]

wtf is kata?

[traj]

First of all, I don't care how I look. That would be you.

 

I tried to find some flames from you. Tough work.

 

All I could find were 1 "schmuck", a couple of "go boil your extremities", 1 "Trajic", and 25,000 posts where you insult people's intelligence (stupid, idiotic, foolish etc.) and then wink afterwards.

 

Wait, maybe calling someone stupid IS a flame. It certainly doesn't make them feel good about themselves. You're as guilty as those you chastise for "flames".

 

I guess in your mind calling someone a "nOOb" is worse than insulting their intelligence time and time again. They both have the same effect though, and they're both flames.

 

Yours are just more cleverly disguised and therefore more chicken****.

 

AL, no one is rallying support for a patch in this thread. It's a discussion about gameplay, leave it be.

[dyehead]

You sound like Lars from Metallica.

 

Anyone remember?

 

"PATCHING BAD!!"

"NERFING GOOD!"

 

Premature patching is bad, ok sure... Maybe it's not as premature as you think it is?

 

How many HOURS does someone have to play before you'd say that they could make a serious and educated suggestion for a patch?

 

I can guarantee you that there are a lot of people who have played MP for over 50 hours playtime already. I myself have probably put in a good 24 solid hours of play. I would not play for 20 minutes and make random judgements, I would however read other people's suggestions/questions and then go back in game and test myself.

 

I guarantee you, Weiner dog has probably played JA more than you. Maybe those with more experience MIGHT POSSIBLY KNOW BETTER?

 

Premature patching is bad, but who says that the first patch is going to be a repeat of 1.03? I accuse you again of not having any faith in Raven, by your comments.

 

I think they WILL patch, and that they'll do a good job with it. I think 1.04 worked well for JO, it was mostly balanced.

 

But all of this is besides the freaking point..

 

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT PATCHING PER SAY, IT IS TO POINT OUT THINGS ABOUT SABER COMBAT, AND WHAT ODDITIES YOU FIND IN IT. THANKS.

[DarkLord_44]

OK I support changing maybe not single saber stance but putting back the left leftup saber flick would be nice BUT

the main point is that both STAFF and DUAL SABER have an INDEFINATE number of moves in 1 combo. Thus a person with yellow stance (which has equal damage to staff I believe) can do only 5 hits but the staff can go on forever. Ok we all know the SW physics aren't real but based on what they have made in jk2 and the continuing physics of jk3, people using a saber get tired to an extent. That is the reason why they stop after 3 swings in red, 5 in yellow, and 9 in blue if doing spins. Why else would they have this in here for? So based of this info why should someone hold double the weight(staff and dual are 2 sabers but different forms) have the ability to not get tired and go on forever. Think about it this way. In the game when you use dark rage you end up having a slow down period, this is from exhaustion if you put it into perspective. If you want to call it mental or physical exhaution, you can be my guest. So why does someone who is using saber that require more energy due to the weight of the saber plus the extra motions of weilding( more movement = more energy use) be able to have more indurance than someone with half both those things?

If you are gonna say something like "Hey this is a different game!" Is that really a valid arguement? Here is an example. In SW Ep 4 there was light saber combat. Also in Ep 5 there was light saber combat. Did the idea of saber fighting totally change? No, they both were based off the same idea and were virtual the same. Both were different movies but since it was a SERIES it kept the same Idea. Just like Dark forces is a series, the idea of saber combat has not really changed. IN Dark Forces 2, there were 2 swings. The primary swing is much like a fast stance and the secondary was like a yellow scissors combat. Then in Jk2 to Jk3 and so forth, it evolved but really didn't change. It kept the same basic rules.

 

The way I think this game should be done is

1. Take all the regular moves such as overhead yellow, slide slice with staff, and everything not a special to ANY extent and balance all the sabers based of just basic moves.

2. Then take a look at the specials and balance them.

 

You may ask why. There are a lot of duelers who don't like to use specials so if they want to use single saber why should the single saber basic attacks be bad compared to those of a staff of dual saber. I for one don't use specials. A friend of mine Luke Skywalker doesn't use specials except for lunge when someone tries to kill him via ydfa. SmilyKrazy doesn't use specials. The list of people goes on. Therefore create 2 lvls of balance. Do one for basic attack and then another for specials. I don't want to have to spam yellow kata to win.

 

P.S. I think 1.04 was the best thing to happen to the ja community.

[BS87]

Originally posted by dyehead

Thanks for the input--

 

You can make 4 swings with a single saber.

 

You can make unlimited swings with a light staff, and I believe the same holds true for the dual sabers (I haven't tested this extensively, someone please help me with this one)

 

While those stances appear to lack combos, they more than make up for it in pure damage potential.

 

As I stated previously, the thing that raises my brow the most, is when I hit someone 4x with a heavy slash, and they come at me with one dual saber strike or one light staff twirl (non kata) and kill me in one hit.

 

Hmm, i never really noticed that with the single saber, too me it just seemed like he would twilr and continue swinging. Though i'm probably wrong. Also, i have noticed what you've said about the staff and duals seemingly killing in 1 hit in a glanceing blow...... there seems to be some serious hit detection issues with the new sabers. Single vs single you dont notice, cause raven had JO to deal with single sabers, but the new sabers i guess are still a bit glitchy.

[Kurgan]

Granted I did this against Jedi Master Level bots (on rotating maps) but I played with the Saberstaff and Single saber (all stances) and I didn't notice any detectable "nerfing" with the single saber.

 

I owned them just as often, regardless of what weapons or saber types they were using just as often with the single as with the other two types.

 

Strong Stance does the most damage by far. I think people are too hung up on the "DFA" being "weaker" than JK2 and assuming that that is the only worthwhile move for this stance.

 

I'll have you know I used a simple strafe running hit and killed TWO enemy Jedi at once with one swipe. How'se that? ; )

 

Fast stance is the weakest.. it gets knocked aside quite often by more powerful stances, and it does less damage and has less range than the other two. However it can chain a lot more and is faster.

 

I thinkt he problem with some people is that they think that they must only use one stance exclusively in a saber only context. The Single saber is designed to be versatile.

 

So if you give yourself all three Stances (Saber Attack Level 3) then you should master them all and switch off according to the situation. If you're bad at red stance, then save yourself some Force Points. But then don't whine if you get beaten because in a situation you could have used it.

 

At Level 3 Saber Attack and Defense, all three saber types seem well balanced in MP.

 

The Dual Sabers may seem powerful, but I've often knocked away one blade from a person (and had it done to me). The Saber Shield is perfectly counterable (knock the blades away or push them and it totally throws off the move).

 

The Saberstaff leaves you wide open during Katas (which are VERY EASY to mis-time to leave you open or fall off a cliff, or totally miss your opponent) and kicks (kicks are slow and often don't know your opponent down, plus they can always roll out of the way). Turning off one blade gives you Medium Stance, but with no Kata and no Yellow DFA.

 

I think that people are letting their imaginations run away with them and trying to shoe-horn JA into the set pattern they liked from JK2 (whatever version they happened to like).

 

Again, I think Raven did an excellent job on the game. Except for a few random crashes and some minor model clipping, it seems to be as good or better than JK2 in all areas.

 

I miss the first person lightsaber and Jedi Master/Holocron game modes, but those will be modded in I'm sure of it. The rest of the stuff can be turned on/tweaked in the console, so it's no big deal.

[lllKyNeSlll]

Originally posted by dyehead

This thread is designed to form a consensus of what people are noticing

 

Anyone notice that the single saber has nowhere near the destructive power of the dual sabers or the light staff?

 

Red stance:

 

The DFA has been rendered practically useless, even with mouse sensitivity INCREDIBLY low, and the cursor DIRECTLY on the enemy, when I land, it usually doesn't hit. In JO, I was a master of the DFA, as were most people, I imagine.. but I particularly had the knack of landing it about 95% of the time. I think in the entire week that I've been playing JA, I have killed people 2 or 3 times, and one was an afk.

 

-=DyeHead

 

no hitboxes buddy. flechette misses if u aim for legs many times

[dyehead]

Thanks for your input Kurgan, it is dually noted, though the overwhelming amount of people that see the same things that I do reinforce my original doubts.

[boinga1]

Dude, just try a little.

 

 

DFA can still kill, you just can't spam it and it isn't a one hit kill. USE THE KATAS, MON! THEY WoRKEE BERY GOODEE!

 

 

Seriously, though, they do work very well. dual saber user come slashing like a fool towards you= KATA! DING DING DING!

 

Look, I really am a mediocre player, yet the other might I got the same KPM rate as the leader, who had a doublesaber I believe, NOT to mention a 10 minute head start. If I can do that well with a single saber, ANYBODY can.

[DarkLord_44]

No one has anything to say about my post ? How sad