outcast vs academy

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Kurgan

I am finding JA is equal to or superior in every way.

I finished the game earlier, and had a chance to reflect on it while getting my younger son ready for bed ... I agree. I thought about the experience over the past couple of weeks, and it is clearly my favorite game ever right now. (I still feel KOTOR will land in the top 5 somewhere, perhaps #1). There were a couple of hang-ups I was letting cloud my vision of the game, and things I had dismissed that bothered me about JKII.

 

In no order (+ is positive for Jedi Academy, - is in favor of Jedi Outcast)

+ Plot: JA has a smaller plot, but having been voraciously chewing up SW books lately - The books from the Dark Horse 'Tales of the Jedi / Dark Lords of the Sith' series, the Thrawn trilogy, Shatterpoint, and Tatooine Ghost in the past few months, I just feel it is a better and less flawed plot. (I won't spoil it as I was about to )

- Academy: there was something about the Yavin_Trial in Outcast - despite the whole Valley / Morgan thing we just came from - it may have been my favorite level. It was absolutely catthartic, and that feeling carried me the whole end level series on Yavin. JA's Yavin segments, especially the training, were weak, IMO.

+ Jump puzzles / logic puzzles: they were there, but they weren't stupid. Case in point - Nar Shadda Hideout. I loved it, but it was stupid. (ok, maybe I'm stupid )

+ Kyle: there were so many times towards the end of JKII where I wished Kyle would have said 'You're joking, right?' when stormies came at me only to be quickly mowed down.

+ Saber combat - a given, I think. I did it on Single Saber, and while I could beat every opponent but Dessann using 'Fast' stance, a lot of the Dual Saber and Staff enemies, especially in combos, made me resort to more interesting strategies. Which is a good thing ...

+ Levels and design: sure some of them are short, especially on replay. But they are missions, and play as such - some goes easily, others do not. Some of the JA levels gave me that exhausting feeling of JK once again, something I never really got with JKII.

+/- Ending battles - this is a mixed bag for me, as I liked the ending better, but had an easier time with it than with Dessann.

 

Oh well ... just my opinions - of course, these are my 2 faves

 

Mike

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Cr0n0

I prefer jedi outcast over jedi academy but both are good games. Maybe i just like outcast because it gave me something new. I dont like the saber staff and duel sabers because episodes 1 and 2 are both ****ty movies. Darth Maul is a faggot and Anakin in both movies are homosexuals. Episodes 4-6 are the only true StarWars.

You know ... this reminds me of how someone took time out from the lamenting on the Elite Force II forums to ttrash Jedi Academy for a while.

 

Many of us like the prequels - in fact I like AotC better even than TESB, despite being part of the generation who saw Star Wars a dozen times in the theater in 1977-78, we who are supposed to despise the new films and Lucas for 'raping our youth' ...

 

So post your homophobic movie-based flames in the movie forums, and leave this forum to the game.

 

Mike

[Cr0n0]

rofl

AoTC>TESB !?!?!?!?!?!? You are a fool.

 

You just showed that you know nothing about StarWars and are not a true fan.

 

You should stop dreaming about the AoTC Anakin while flipping your burgers at McDonalds and start realizing the bad choices George Lucas has made with both episode 1 and 2.

 

txa1265 i believe you meant to say that AoTC>episode 1 which might be a great achievment in your mind. AoTC cannot even be compared with TESB.

[Sam Fisher]

I liked JO better than JA for everything else but the sabers.

 

 

 

 

 

Pfft.

 

 

They both are evenly matched IMO.

[razorace]

Originally posted by Cr0n0

rofl

AoTC>TESB !?!?!?!?!?!? You are a fool.

 

You just showed that you know nothing about StarWars and are not a true fan.

 

You should stop dreaming about the AoTC Anakin while flipping your burgers at McDonalds and start realizing the bad choices George Lucas has made with both episode 1 and 2.

 

txa1265 i believe you meant to say that AoTC>episode 1 which might be a great achievment in your mind. AoTC cannot even be compared with TESB.

 

I also liked AotC better than TESB. AotC is much better paced, has better special effects, and more/better action.

 

Personally insulting anyone that disagrees with you isn't cool.

[Tesla]

JO had a better story IMO, and Desann is a better baddy than Tavion, mostly because he had a "deep, deep, deep" voice

 

Desann didn't need no Scepter that released energy beams which drained your health like mad, he dueled like a gentleman with his Single Spiked Saber, and just generally kicked butt. (Artus Topside level, what a fight, i couldn't win )

 

As a said JO had a better story, but JA wins on Saber Combat,Customization,Cheats (Playermodel cheat rules), and graphics.

 

Cutscenes where "improved", well only some of them, the Dark Side ending cutscene with Jaden on the Star Destroyer just felt weak to me, it just didn't have that "Dark Side" feel that i loved about the JK cutscenes.

 

The missions in JA are good especially the Hoth, Vjun,Taspir III missions, but the other missions that you picked, felt weak and unfinished, especially the Wedge Antillies mission, the cutscenes were just dreadful !!!

 

JA, is a great game, much better than JO, but the story could have been alot better.

 

Well thats my view of the 2 games

[Astrotoy7]

As much as I love DF and JK/MOTs I cant handle playing them nowadays, either I am too used the q3 engine or cant handle the poorer graphics. I really loved the Dark Forces Mod Demo, I am looking forward to when that is finished, I hope someone somewhere is doing one for JK and MOTS....

 

I did find JO a bit more 'complex', but it was no secret that Raven toned down the puzzle element and went for the action instead, adding new fighting moves, as well as siege mode in MP.... They are both great games, and you can play the JO SP levels with your JA character of course,(although I wish someone clever could make a mod that would make this easier to do and remove some of the glitches, especially with scripting and botroutes/waypoints)

 

As for Cr0n0 - grow up. If you expressed your opinions in a sensible way people may benefit from your point of view, flaming anyone who doesn't agree with you achieves nothing.

 

I really hate flamers, internet tough guys hiding behind their pcs 1000s of miles away, speak like that to someone's face and you'd have your teeth busted...

 

and yeah, head over a movie forum and flame to your hearts content, this really isnt the place to argue whether ESB is better than AOTC.... go over to theforce.net, they'll eat you up over there

 

 

MTFBWYA

 

AOTC and ESB are the greatest SW movies, *of their time*

[Clemme w/Stick]

Originally posted by king yoda

academy is the best but it´s very easy i played the whole game in one week. jedi outcast it´s harder than JA.

 

I'm with King Yoda here.

JO was harder to complete than JA, but MP is better in JA than in JO.

 

-Clemme

[Astrotoy7]

Another fundamental difference I think is that your JA character is a saber wielder foremost. The missions seem more appropriate to these abilities. I have to admit I got through most of JA without even having to think about using any of the guns. This was impossible in JO, and belied the fact that Kyle was a merc as well as a jedi.

 

Still I'm glad we have both ! These are among my fave games of all time ....

 

MTFBWYA

[StormHammer]

Cr0n0...please don't insult other members. It's not appreciated on these boards. You've been here all of five minutes, and made 3 posts, but your abrasive manner is not appreciated by the other members. I look forward to your cooperation.

 

Astrotoy7...as I already said in my previous post, there is a Jedi Knight Mod in development. IN fact, the teams working on both the Dark Forces Mod and JK2 Enhanced are now collaborating in order to try and complete certain aspects of both Mods faster.

[Cosmos Jack]

Hmm well

 

I actually like JO more then JA. Don't get me wrong. JA has allot of great features; however, JO has allot better story. In some odd way when I play it I feel like I'm in a movie. lol JA I feel like I'm playing a game. That might sound silly.

 

JO was harder for me then JA. Some of the levels I thought were down right atrocious. Like In Nar Shda; however, it's spelt. Every window had a Rodean Sniper. Not to mention the legions of Storm Troopers in other levels . I think Nar Shda was a bad attempt at a Corsicount type city. I doubt in a city everyone is your enemy and trying to kill you. Where are the normal people going about their business?

 

One of the things I think would be cool is if they took some pointers from "SW Bounty Hunter's Corsicount level." It had people that wasn't fighting walking around aimlessly. That gave that level character.

 

I like the SP in JA, but like I said it just doesn't give me the same feeling that JO did. The 1st few levels "unless you cheated" you had to fight with guns. Getting your force powers and lightsaber was something to look forward to. In JA it's being able to choice between a Staff saber or Dual sabers.

 

Some people might like JA better, some JO and other might like the older JK games. So it really doesn't matter, because everyone is going to have a different opinion on a game. No matter what the developers do with it.

[ForceMaster]

I personnally like JK better than them all.

 

First of all, the missions for JA were not interconnected like I like a SP game to be. Essentially until the last two "mission" you were just trying to build up your force powers. Sure there was an underlying agenda, but you were hardly working towards a common purpose.

 

Granted saber fighting was greatly improved in JA. I liked the feel and the sense of Star Wars tragedy that you get in DF, JK, MotS and JA.

 

And is it just me or did Kyle seem like a whiner when you went over to the dark side (must be spending too much time with Luke ;-) .)

 

Oh and there is no way that AotC is >ESB!!!

[Doctor Shaft]

JK was definitely the best of them all. No doubt about it. The story line, the engine itself, the levels that went with it, were all revolutionary at the time of its release.

 

JK may not be the best looking hunk of junk today, but in terms of story progression and action, no game holds a candle to it... except half life, which was superior to all. Of course, this is not a forum to discuss Half-Life, but in the Dark Forces chain of games, JK is still unequalled.

 

MotS was fun, but keep in mind that it would make little sense nor would it have much appeal if JK did not exist before it. MotS did have very interesting level designs... most notably the Sith temple levels, which were very... very... unique. So unique and filled with life that I would say they destroy even the JO/JA maps we have now. This isn't to insult Raven however... MotS doesn't have nearly as good graphics, isn't nearly as smooth... but the ability to have a combination of trees, WATER, swimming actions, etc.... made those last few parts of the levels truly memorable.

 

JK had the best story of all though. The first four levels are gun levels, and they aren't difficult. You just have to know how to shoot people, you go on trips around your home, on Nar Shadaa, you're chasing after a disk with data about a Jedi Temple. Soon, you get a lightsaber, and now you're progressing in the Force. You fight your first dark jedi, and then you begin to choose side-specific powers. Will you journey through the dark side, kill your partner Jan, and become an emotionally tormented ruler of the galaxy, or will you calm yourself with the lightside and protect the jedi temple? Excellent story.

 

In concerns about wanting to play the game with 'combos', fluid sabers, or just sabers that look like glowing SABERS, I have the solutions to your needs, so that you may play JK but have fighting skills that are comparble to JO. It's a mod called "Saber Battle X". This mod was revolutionary towards the end of JK's life. Granted, it may not be the 'tightest' bit of programming you've ever come across, the features it gives the user are good enough to keep you pleased for a long time. It gives you the 'glowing' lightsaber instead of those interesting colored sticks. It gives you a wide variety of saber swings to utilize, instead of those slow choppy chops. Faster, more fluid, yuou also have a small 'stunt' key to do backflips and rolls. Force powers remain relatively the same, although Force Lighting was enhanced... yeah, I think you can actually kill people with it in SBX. And you can change lightsaber colors in game to that of your liking. So, if you want to get the game, and have a good time with it, and you want that Q3 feel, get SBX. IT is for both JK and MotS. Find the latest versions (3.1 and 3.0 respectively). I was able to play through JK AND MotS with those mods. Saber damage was upped for normal swings, so you could go through those armies of stormies without having to use Force pull all the time (you basically HAD to in the original version of the game to surivive with a saber). Anyway, go get it, and enjoy one the of the greatest stories. Hehe.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Javva the Hutt

I personnally like JK better than them all.

 

<snip.

 

Oh and there is no way that AotC is >ESB!!!

 

Remember - these are opinion forums. I have every right to like AotC better than TESB ... that doesn't mean I don't love Empire as one of my all time favorite movies - I still remember sitting in the theater as the credits rolled ... that voice echoing in my mind - "Luke - I am your father ..." I agreed with Luke - No, it's not true, it's impossible!

 

As for why I like JA best, a big part of it is the saber combat. No matter what mods you put on, JK is always Guns & Guns & saber, JKII is saber and guns, and JA is saber & saber & saber (what - you used a gun?). Another part is the force powers are worlds better in JKII/JA IMO - with the exception of pursuade which was great.

 

Mike

[Astrotoy7]

Hi Stormhammer - Thanks for addressing that unhappy person

 

also

 

Astrotoy7...as I already said in my previous post, there is a Jedi Knight Mod in development. IN fact, the teams working on both the Dark Forces Mod and JK2 Enhanced are now collaborating in order to try and complete certain aspects of both Mods faster.

 

Excellent ! Sorry, I didn't catch it, I was skim reading and got stuck on the nasty comments...which is a perfect example of how obstructive that type of forum behaviour is, I missed out on the good info !!!

 

Gotta say ! the mods/admins here do a great job !

 

MTFBWYA

[Prime]

JA certainly delivered in that it delivered on improving the saber combat.

 

The good thing is that for the most part you can play JO SP levels in JA, so that means a lot of the good things of JO can be brought into JA

[Jaden007]

I really liked the challenging levels on JO but the Muli-player was not that good (my opinion) but JA is great SP mode and just as good MP (when your using Gamespy)

 

 

1. JA

2. JO

3.DF1

4.jk 2

 

 

I liked the bosses in Jedi knight 2 best cuz there were alot of em

 

JO was cool with Desann

 

And I guess i cant tell JA's bosses

[king yoda]

my opinion is that in jo where only 2 cool bosses (desann,tavion) i hate galak and reelo.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by king yoda

my opinion is that in jo where only 2 cool bosses (desann,tavion) i hate galak and reelo.

I hated Galak too, which is why he is one of my favorite bosses for any game.

 

There are two types of bosses I like - ones that challenge your skills *along* the path of progression for your character, and ones that challenge skills *counter* to your character progression. (there are both types in JA as well). One challenges your strategy while the other challenges your tactics.

 

I don't like bosses who are just mega hard, and challenge your ability to find powerups quickly while making hit-and-run moves ... like Heinrich from RtCW or the whatever it was from EFII.

 

... oh, you mention Reelo. Was he a boss? I just thought he was a cime-lord, not so tough himself, but had a bunch of lackeys paid to die to protect him.

 

Mike

[Raanes]

mhm.. very good point you got there

[Doctor Shaft]

In response to JK being guns, guns, and more guns, I'm telling you, with SBX mod on, you'll be able to enjoy a game where it's saber/saber/saber. Seriously.

 

The saber combat is just so smooth and intuitive, in combination with the ability to kick people around and stab them quickly, that you really CAN go around the entire game using nothing but the saber (I did it).

 

Of course, the only thing SBX will ruin is your encounters with the dark jedi. There just isn't any method for making them more difficult to fight, and with SBX, you'll have an easy time simply tearing them to shreds. But on the other hand, the rest of the game you get to enjoy pure Saber Only ownage.

 

I seriously would strongly suggest that people try it out. The mod is still available, you still have the game. Your saber will look ten times better, and now you can move around like the acrobat you thought you should be. IT is the the penultimate saber only mod for JK. It willl make your single player experience amazing.

 

When I first played JK, i did saber only, but for all purposes it was boring and unruly. Beating off flying creatures, etc., was simply cumbersome. With SBX, i was cutting people's arms off, nipping reptilian stingers off, the whole nine yards. The game was still hard.... peole could still shoot you to death pretty handily. But you were able to give it to them... without simply force pulling weapons every ten seconds. Just awesome, go do it!!!

 

You don't understand... they're trying to take my tortillas!!!

[Doctor Shaft]

Oh yeah, and you could play with a saber staff, or a really long lightsaber... if you wished. You could simply switch to it, it's not like you had one or the other. Whether this is a good thing or bad thing isn't important. It's just as easy to restrict yourself to one type of saber, and leave it at that.

 

The saber staff animations... while perhaps a little 'outrageous', are smooth as well, and the longer saber is just the same as the original, only weaker. If you do it, have fun. It's especially fun with MotS, cuz those levels really have that extra "star wars" immersion feel. Really big levels with all kinds of places to walk or run, and even people that carry around knives to fight you with. Better be a good saberist. Do it.... I command you!!

[king yoda]

i don´t know too i said he is a boss because he is a crime lord just you said. let has call him a small or little boss.

[Kurgan]

In JK1, actually the "simpler" saber combat in a way made sense (in universe).

 

Kyle Katarn took fencing at the Imperial Academy, but that was about it. He wasn't a saber master or anything, notice the Dark Jedi had their own moves, while Kyle just had the two basic swings (with 8 possible variations, slightly less than one stance in JK2).

 

He was still learning. Of course in MotS he didn't have anything new except Saber Throw, but we could chalk that up to the engine and the fact that it came out only four months after the first game (but took place 5 years later... and he supposedly had some lessons from Luke Skywalker in that time).

[txa1265]

I play JK using more saber than guns, but it is not easy, nor does it feel natural. You are about to face Jerec, you've defeated Dark Jedi, and you have Stormtroopers picking off your shields and health with the E11 ... arrggghhh! I had tried SBX some time ago, and to me it was like cheating to give yourself the saber and force powers for the first few levels of JKII - just wasn't meant to be there. But that's me. I love each game in the series for what it *is*, warts and all ...

 

Mike