Define "LAMING"

[Kurgan]

Hey I didn't mean to point any fingers, I know I've done my share of "sneaky" stuff, like sniping people having a saber duel (doesn't it even recommend you do this in the instruction manual? I should look up the quote... maybe I was dreaming when I read it.) or doing the backstab on somebody while they're typing (of course they usually get me back later, which is just hilarious anyway).

 

I guess the lesson to be learned in all this is not to take the game THAT seriously. It is a game after all and the point of games is to enjoy them.

 

Ah... so simple, yet profound!

[Jah Warrior]

what a nice boy you are:rolleyes:

[Cosmos Jack]

There needs to be a shut up and play the dam game mod.

[Tsaya]

I don't believe that laming is the problem here. The Problem is harassment (wait with your flames until you read the whole post please ) :

 

There are three different reasons for people to get upset, whine or call names:

 

1. They never realised that they aren't the best. Whenever they die they take it personal. Harassing them is easy as all you have to do is to be better than them. These are the people that can't be helped. They have to understand that no matter how good you are compared to your friends someone will be better.

 

2. They are harassed by purpose. It's sad but almost all online games have people like FK | unnamed that enjoy ruining the game for others. Can't do much about this either but keep out of the way of such players. As long as everyone is being egoistic there will be people who play that way.

Cheaters fall in the same category: they are being egoists that have fun while they accept the fact they are preventing others from having fun.

 

3. They are harassed by the different style of others. Now that's the real problem! Most of you probably never thought about it that way but please go ahead and give it a try: 90% of all those lamers (whoever YOU might consider a lamer) ain't doing anything but trying to have fun - just like you . Problem is, it's pretty hard for the two of you to have fun together due to completely different definitions of fun.

As an example, take some players on a "saber only map" (with explosives). They use sabers and are having fun that way and probably didn't even notice there are explosives on the map, thought it to be sabers only and played that way. Now you take a detonator and blow them up: first thing they are: shocked. And of course they are angry, simply because they never thought that this might happen. In their opinion you really are a lamer - just got on the server and ****ed up everything. In some way they are right (after all, the server was saber only until you came).

Of course from your point of view there is nothing to be ashamed of: there are det packs, why not use them? You didn't see a rule against it... If those players get you banned now they are harassing you (again, from your point of view) and you got every right to be angry.

In the end, both of you feel cheated.

 

I'm not saying they are right. I'm not saying you are right. As a matter of fact: you both are and you both aint. Everyone wanting to have fun isn't causing problem. Enforcing your style to others (by banning someone you think to be a lamer or by killing someone who used the "sabers down"-rule) is causing laming. When it comes to this enforcement there are always the strong and the weak:

"The strong" are those, that have the power to ruin everyone elses game by playing their style. "The weak" can do nothing about it but whine:

FFAer kills a "saber down guy": saber down guy whines ingame

"saber down guy" gets FFAer banned: FFAer is going to some forum, whining there

 

Everyone wants to have fun. But everyone together is NOT having fun because what's fun to one is harassment to the other (and vice versa)

The solution should be easy: make servers for everyone and label them as what they really are. If you want a true FFA you don't want to try 10 servers full of honor-jedis until you find one. But with servers just being "normal" the problem can't be solved. Everyone considers his style to be "normal" and all others who do not feel the exact same way to be abnormal.

 

Of course there will always be type 1 and 2 players as well as people with a bad temper or who simply had a bad day. But the problem JA and JO have is simply that all the players with different definitions of "good gameplay" are put on the same servers.

[Luc Solar]

You do make a good point. However, to me it's quite clear who is right and who is wrong.

 

It is a FACT that there are no rules in this game except for the ones I mentioned earlier (kill & score points). That is a fact.

 

The problem isn't people who play "the wrong way". The problem are the people who whine about it.

 

I could not care less whether my opponent tries to hack me into bits with his saber or uses nothing but the tenloss trying to snipe me from across the map. It makes no difference to me. Use whatever you want. Use solely the stormtrooper rifle, I don't care. Different styles is all good. Makes me have to come up with new strategies to beat you.

 

The whining is the problem. You swing your saber and I shoot you/get sabered. I'm happy but Mr. whiner is not. Mr. whiner wants me to play exactly the way he wants me to play. Especially if my style causes him problems he will call me lame. He does not want to lose, so I should play in a way that will make him win. He will whine and whine and try to end my gaming session by kicking me or banning me.

[The_Wookiee]

Originally posted by Kurgan

My quick and easy definition of "laming" is this:

 

"Doing anything that makes me lose or look bad in front of my friends."

 

It's the mournful cry of sore losers everywhere...

 

 

Couldn't agree more,

 

best post I've seen in awhile =p

 

D_P!

[Tsaya]

It is a FACT that there are no rules in this game except for the ones I mentioned earlier (kill & score points). That is a fact.

 

Sure, it is a fact to you. It is because that's how you learned to play FFA. Other peoples got to know a different style of FFA (I know this sounds wierd). They aren't wrong because of that altough from your point of view they seem to be.

 

And of course don't you have to care. In your case you definitely are the "strong" one who can simply enforce his playing style by practicing it. The whiner (the "weak") can't do anything about it but whine (the ammount of whining depends on character though ).

 

The whiner isn't spamming because he dislikes you. He is because he got nothing to do anyways: with you around he surely can't practice his style of playing so he does what he can to get the situation back he wants (by getting you kicked).

 

Having different FFA Servers for the different tastes would surely solve that problem. After all you don't want to play FFA vs someone who just stands there and whines (not much of a competition) and he doesn't want to get whacked by you. So if you put a lot of "you" on one server and a lot of whiners on the other that should work fine.

Problem is: there is no way to tell who's going to be on the server before you join it.

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by Tsaya

Sure, it is a fact to you. It is because that's how you learned to play FFA. Other peoples got to know a different style of FFA (I know this sounds wierd). They aren't wrong because of that altough from your point of view they seem to be.

 

I beg to differ . See, when the game was made there were no rules except for the ones mentioned in the game. (Defeat opponent - score points). That is a fact.

 

There is no mention about honour codes. Those are rules made by (immature) players at some point after the 1.02 version JO, I believe. These thousands of rules were never agreed upon. Not by me, not by thousands of others. The rules spread like a plaque and resulted in JO becoming a virtual chat. The rules were forced upon the majority of players, those who just wanted to play but couldn't...not unless they obeyed.

 

The people who you talk about, the ones have "learned" a different game are nothing but kids who got brainwashed by some admin to follow the admin's code of conduct. These people don't know that the admin had no clue. They don't realize that there are no universal rules.

 

It is a fact that saber down = peace is not a rule that players have agreed upon. It is also a fact that a game of FFA has the rule that we all see when logging on to a server. The same goes for CTF; you simply aren't supposed to grab the flag but then refuse to take it to your base. Just like you aren't supposed to kill your teammates in a team ffa. Just like you aren't supposed to stand around chatting and whining in a ffa.

 

All the rest of the rules mean nothing. Players have not agreed upon them and therefore they do not exist. Saber down = peace does not exist if the server does not spesifically say so. You can not assume anything.

 

And of course don't you have to care. In your case you definitely are the "strong" one who can simply enforce his playing style by practicing it. The whiner (the "weak") can't do anything about it but whine

 

Not really true either. Most servers have admins and admins live to enforce rules. That's the whole reason for their existence and they'll surely want rules, lots of rules, hopefully ambiguous rules that allows them to judge and condemn people. If there are a thousand players to each admin out there, 10 admins have the power to **** up the game of 10.000 people. Not to mention the effect it has on all un-admined servers where these "educated newbies" go playing.

 

The whiner wins because I can not play without being kicked. I can not play without getting pissed at the retardedness of people. I end up uninstalling the whole damn game because every server is infested with whiners. Do not underestimate the power of whining.

 

Then there are the likes of Unnamed who retaliate. I don't really have the skill or time to do that, but it makes my day every time a demo of "honour noobs getting raped" is posted on this forum. Priceless.

 

To sum it up: Unnamed gets some enjoyment from the game by making fun of these "rpg"-people.

I get zero enjoyment of the game (although some from ranting and watching Unnamed's demos).

The Honour Code-idiots get to have their virtual chatroom which was once a promising FPS-game.

 

Problem is: there is no way to tell who's going to be on the server before you join it.

 

Exactly. Although I can be sure that there are at least one or two whiners who ruin the game.

[Cosmos Jack]

If I was to respond to your post right now "Tsaya" It would just be to say what "Luc Solar" just said...

 

After reading allot of the other posts on this thread from people having similar problems to mine or the exact ones for that matter. I'm in favor of a NO KICK mod.

 

All the Noobs want their Admin mods. I want a no anti admin mod so I can go in these cheesy @ss servers and play a FPS game. Not having to worry about getting kicked for play the dam game.

[BloodRiot]

The only decent thing i've seen in a FFA was when i switched to staff and tried to get a crowd with the forward butterfly... at the last second everybody disperced as I was closing in and i try to turn hoping i can still get one from the sides... the end result was me bashing against a croner where a saber down guy was just standing there... he go trpeed between the wall and myself and could do very little other than dying.

 

I was going for the "aw crap i didnt mean to get you!" but before i could type it, he just LOLed on me and said that was funny.

 

Now that's a cool spirit in my book. Too bad there's 1 of these guyz for every 100 twits claiming to be the honorbound protectors of the server.

 

Cheers.

[FK | unnamed]

I just look at what I do as sticking up for the "little man who likes to play the game".

 

Really, go onto any Jedi Outcast (I would say Jedi Academy but there is no admin mod yet) server sometime and spec an admin.

 

The average Joe players who are just there to play and have a good time constantly get verbally abused and screwed with.

 

The admins abuse the mods functions no different than client side hacks and seemingly enjoy ruining the fun of the players who are just there to enjoy the game.

 

I mean really, why would anyone want to stick around in this community if all they encountered when they went from server to server was verbal abuse and rcon abuse?

 

And before anyone says "it's their server they can do what they want" keep in mind this happens just as much on public servers as it does on private ones.

 

People may not have rcon but they will gang up and vote people off just to be jerks. And all because they average Joe player didn't conform to this idiot’s view of what the "universal code of Jedi honor" was.

 

So if abusing <bleep>head admins and players makes me a bad guy, I'm perfectly comfortable with that label.

 

I simply look at it as giving a bunch of <bleep>holes a taste of their own medicine.

[-=FB=-Jagged]

tsaya, i'm gonna try and reply to your dumb post without flaming you....

 

dumb post? crap, ive already failed.

 

that is the biggest load of crap. lucsolar is right. there are NOT two sets of rules. there are two sets of PEOPLE; those who read the server rules and obey and those who ignore them and create this stupid code of honor.

 

and we, as true fps players, or chat killers, or "saber down=ur an idiot" decapitators, or "where's your honor?" castrators, are usually powerless to stop those people from booting us from the server, because were almost always outnumbered. SO WE PRETTY MUCH CAN'T "BEND THEM TO OUR STYLE" OF GAMING, as you would like to think.

 

my advice to my "lamer" brethren -- stick to gun servers. the action is fast enough that people usually won't start whining. and you probably wont get kicked --

 

a) because people are too busy playing to care and

b) because others are laming like you, and winning because of it.

 

at least, that is where i go to lame, because it isnt laming there. and its funny because last night i got on a guns server and found a dude who was hell-bent on using a saber, no offensive force. i slaughtered him a couple of times and he would whine, so i just kept saying "adapt". and he did. for three straight games, we were 1 and 2 in the rankings, with me getting 1st twice.

 

and i have a new friend,

[ExcelsioN]

Originally posted by Master William

Well that's hard. Sometimes it's a bit over the line, some guy was doing that dual sabers taunt, where the sabers cross.

So, he should know that with duck or jump, he can interrupt the taunt, I stabbed him while doing it, and half the server goes ''whoa dude lame''

 

I got kicked for doing exactly that.

 

Lamers are people who disobey this code, and end up being kicked. Ive been accused of being a lamer a lot of times. I disagree with the code, but it seems to be so popular anyway.

 

Ah well, theres not much we can do about it, so, grin and bear it! :D

 

p.s. theres far too many of these more or less the same threads, perhaps an admin could merge them all into one...

[Kurgan]

Now, I will freely admit, it IS possible to be nuisance while still technically following the rules.

 

Examples:

 

Having a super high ping that never goes down.

Spamming the same line of crap over and over in chat.

Cussing out the admin (we have feelings too! *sniff*)

In CTF, taking the flag and then just hiding somewhere and never coming out and capping.

Repeatedly attacking teammates despite warnings to stop.

Killing yourself on purpose over and over and over....

Joining and leaving and joining and leaving (in an attempt to lag the server)

etc.

 

I could possibly join a server hosted in Japan and just go into spectator mode sit there for days. Or even just sit in spectator mode and hurl racial slurs and cuss at people.

 

I could join a server and stand in the center with fists out and jump tape down a button that runs a script to make me jump continuously.

 

Some servers won't have a problem with that, and I might be a source of points for some players, but in certain game modes that's really stupid, and it takes up a spot for a "real" player.

 

 

 

Obviously ID Software and Raven understood this which is why admins still have the power to kick and ban. So there are still legit reasons to do so.

 

I agree though that there is are two fuzzy "groups" of players.. those who have made up rules and those who are knowledable enough to set those rules into the server itself so they don't have to kick people "for no reason."

 

And even the folks with the made up rules could be a lot more consistent and make a better effort to make those rules KNOWN so that people don't waste their time trying to join a server they won't have any fun on.

[Astrotoy7]

when I was a kid(in the 80s) who would've thought calling someone a n00b or lamer would be such an insult. Back then saying S**T and F**K (add the word head as required)were enough for us... damn you kids ! i'm glad i've never run into such unsavoury characters in my limited MP experiences

 

Nonetheless, hope you are all having fun ! remember - EFF, YUU, ENN, FUN ! Thats what gaming is all about

 

MTFBWYA

[Tsaya]

Fk|Unnamed wrote:

I simply look at it as giving a bunch of <bleep>holes a taste of their own medicine.

The problem is: those whiners probably think the exact same thing when they get you kicked.

 

Fk|Unnamed wrote:

The admins abuse the mods functions no different than client side hacks and seemingly enjoy ruining the fun of the players who are just there to enjoy the game.

That's just as bad as a player harassing others: type 2 admin I'd say... Not much one can do about that but switch to another server. Kinda sad though, I agree.

 

-=FB=-Jagged wrote:

SO WE PRETTY MUCH CAN'T "BEND THEM TO OUR STYLE" OF GAMING, as you would like to think.

That's where you are wrong. By killing them you are bending them. In return, they bend you by getting you kicked.

 

-=FB=-Jagged wrote:

There are NOT two sets of rules. There are two sets of PEOPLE; those who read the server rules and obey and those who ignore them and create this stupid code of honor.

Isn't that exactly what I said? I never talked about 2 sets of rules but about different interpretations of rules. Of course that code of honor is stupid - to you. To them it's fun. There is nothing wrong about hating that code - but there is nothing wrong about liking it either (after all one can see where it comes from - jedi being people of honor).

 

Again, the problem is not their interpretation of FFA and it's not yours. It's just that the two won't work together. You can argue all day long who's right and who's wrong - it simply does not matter because no one is going to admit he's not.

Splitting the servers and splitting the people who play on them is the only solution I see. But then again it seems like some of you already adapted to the situation and wouldn't wanna miss the crybabies anymore because harassing them is more fun than playing - at least to you.

Just my opinion though.

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

I have automated messages on my servers that say the following:

 

This is a war zone, not a chatroom

 

Chat at your own risk, don't whine if you die

 

Wait until you die to chat or change settings

 

Only chatters get chatkilled

 

It's noob to whine about the Force in a Star Wars game. Go play The Sims instead

 

People saber off then stab you in the back when you run by. None of that saber off = peace BS here

 

Saber off = easy kill

 

'You are unwise to lower your defenses'. Hmm, where have I heard that before?

 

Remember when Obi-wan lowered his saber and Vader didn't kill him? Hmm, neither do I.

 

Remember when Qui-gon, Obi-wan, and Maul all bowed to each other before power dueling? Hmm, neither do I.

 

If you bow to duel, you probably sit to pee

 

Who really made up all these 'honor' rules anyway, George Lucas or a bunch of whiney teenage boys?

 

All kills are legal on this server. Whiners deal or leave. Saber off = join Obi-wan's ghost

 

Lower your defenses at your own risk, then take the consequences like a warrior, not a whiner

 

After reading these messages, the following conversation occured:

 

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: thats retarded....: /

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: the person who wrote that should be shot

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: mindless fighting doesn't prove anything..

 

say: CanisLupisLupis: yes it does

 

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: promoting mindless FFA and SD kills promotes disorderly conduct amoung the online community

 

say: CanisLupisLupis: hmmmm

say: CanisLupisLupis: oh go lag yourself

 

Tsk tsk, we can't have "disorderly conduct" on a Free for All server, now can we?

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: mindless fighting doesn't prove anything..

 

say: CanisLupisLupis: yes it does

 

say: >)O(< ENmiTy: promoting mindless FFA and SD kills promotes disorderly conduct amoung the online community

 

say: CanisLupisLupis: hmmmm

say: CanisLupisLupis: oh go lag yourself

 

HAAHAHAHAHAA! That's priceless...priceless... I'm soo going to put that in my sig!

[Rumor]

Originally posted by Tsaya

The problem is: those whiners probably think the exact same thing when they get you kicked.

 

 

That's just as bad as a player harassing others: type 2 admin I'd say... Not much one can do about that but switch to another server. Kinda sad though, I agree.

 

 

That's where you are wrong. By killing them you are bending them. In return, they bend you by getting you kicked.

 

 

Isn't that exactly what I said? I never talked about 2 sets of rules but about different interpretations of rules. Of course that code of honor is stupid - to you. To them it's fun. There is nothing wrong about hating that code - but there is nothing wrong about liking it either (after all one can see where it comes from - jedi being people of honor).

 

Again, the problem is not their interpretation of FFA and it's not yours. It's just that the two won't work together. You can argue all day long who's right and who's wrong - it simply does not matter because no one is going to admit he's not.

Splitting the servers and splitting the people who play on them is the only solution I see. But then again it seems like some of you already adapted to the situation and wouldn't wanna miss the crybabies anymore because harassing them is more fun than playing - at least to you.

Just my opinion though.

 

FFA = free for ALL not just you.

 

find another server? yeah lets see here.

 

kid buys the game. figures, hey i get to frag people with starwars weapons!! cool beans!!

 

installs and goes into a server.

kills someone just like in any other game.

/amturnthe******lamerintoaspidermonkey kid

/amslap kid

 

<admin> HEY U ****IN LAMER UR A ****** UR MOM IS A WHORE <insert racial/sexual slur here>

 

ok weird server. kid tries another. same result. and another and another.

 

<kid> WELL **** THIS BULL****

 

*kid throws the game in the trash.

 

considering 99% of the servers in jk2/jk3 are exactly the same, i say go shove a jackhammer down your throat and turn it on if you have any more "bright" ideas that you wish to enlighten us with.

[cbc72]

Amidala from Chop Shop,

 

What is your server, I want to play there.

 

To all,

 

Someone posted above they got kicked for killing someone doing a taunt? In my book, there is no better time to kill someone. If they are taunting, I am sure as heck going to try and slice them.

 

I do find it entertaining since reading this thread to go onto servers and stick up for those being accused of laming. Of course I always vote no on the kick votes.

[Ardent]

My defintion of laming is simple.

 

If I am better than you, then I am a lamer.

 

If I bs you, I am laming.

 

If I dfa you, I am laming.

 

Hell, if I kata you, I am laming.

 

If I kill you, I am laming.

 

Since that's what it seems to mean.

 

Lately I've been reigning myself in and not arbitrarily killing everyone (I've been respecting the saber down rules), and I still win by a landslide. So I'm still a lamer. Despite not breaking any publicly-stated server rules. I've decided I can't win, and that I'll stick with being a lamer.

[kazesan]

Laming is breaking rules set by players and servers. I only care about what the server says though. Unless an automated server message or the message at the loading screen says otherwise I'm gonna kill anyone in my way.

 

I got chewed out by numerous people and even kicked from a server for hitting people with their sabers down. On a powerduel server with only the DL-44 and sabers I got called a lamer because I shot someone in the head while they were bowing.

 

I actually try to frequent Amidala's chopshop servers because of the anti "honor" rules enforced there. If you chat you die and no one ever complains. Also the saber damage scale makes CTF and FFA that much better.

 

I would be better off making an anti honor clan or adding something in my name so people know they are gonna die regardless of whether or not their bowing in honorable fashion.

[Cosmos Jack]

I'm still waiting for my "no kick hack" people. Lets cram one out.....Today.... This month......Any time........ sometime maybe today............

 

I'm waiting here......

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by cbc72

Amidala from Chop Shop,

 

What is your server, I want to play there.

 

 

Chop Shop #1 INCREASED SABER DAMAGE FFA-CTF 66.98.176.193

 

Chop Shop #2 INCREASED SABER DAMAGE FFA-CTF 66.98.177.150

 

The servers are set-up the same way: full Force, all Weapons enabled, increased saber damage, dismemberment enabled, fast Force regeneration and increased gamespeed (run 20% faster). Private dueling is disabled (go to a duel server if you want to duel) so everyone is in the fight. Voting is disabled so superior players can't get kicked for winning.

 

Map rotation is all 5 FFA maps followed by all 5 CTF maps, repeat. I try to synchronize the servers so when one is in the FFA part of the cycle, the other is in the CTF part of the cycle, so you can choose which gametype you want or jump from one to the other to stay in the same gametype, if there's room. When the servers are (rarely) listed by the Master Server List, they are both full and I restrict sv_maxping so there are no high-pingers. Use The All Seeing Eye and you can always find them, or use New Favorite to enter the IPs directly.

 

You can use powerful lightsabers, weapons, or the Force to kill, the choice is up to you. All kills are legal, although you don't have to chatkill or saber-down kill if you don't want to, it is permitted and no whining is allowed if it happens. About the only rule is no chat spamming or extreme racist\vulgar\taunting\being an asshole spamming.

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by kazesan

I would be better off making an anti honor clan or adding something in my name so people know they are gonna die regardless of whether or not their bowing in honorable fashion.

 

I used to run around in JO as Luc[NoHonour!]Solar

 

I did get kicked a lot and it seemed that admins kept a pretty close eye on me.

 

Choose your name well and you will be kicked in 3 seconds (no profanities needed).