bodstevens Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I didn't like the JO yavin swamp level because my lightsaber would turn off in water. In the other JK games lightsaber underwater was needed quite a few times to pass a certain object in your path. ( i know the q3 engine has some bearing on it but hey...) Also in EU they work in water (yeah yeah it's EU..) Splinter of the minds eye luke uses his saber under water also its in many other EU moments. I don't think raven even played the other two games (jk and MotS). Oh yeah this game is EU.... Lightsabers don't emit heat (as stated in the tech guides and every where about lightsabers). So its not like its gonna short out or boil the water... Just a little thing that bugged me. In JA at least the lightsaber lights up dark areas. I remember in JO that made me kinda mad and ruined the yavin swamp level. No trying to create a flame war just speaking my mind Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJP3E Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 in Episode I, I think a scene was cut that explained why obi-won was not fighting the stap chasing him. his saber had shorted out in water ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yes, that's exactly what happened. It shorted. Obviously, Obi-wan didn't know how to make his lightsaber waterproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yeah, a Padawan probably doesn't have the skill to create a waterproof saber. Since Kyle's first saber was one created by Qu Rahn, a Jedi master, he probably had the skill to make the saber waterproof. At least, that's how I rationalize it. Otherwise you'd have a heck of a time explaining why Kyle's green saber could work underwater in JK but his blue one in JO can't. In the level where Jaden has to make his choice concerning his alignment with the Force, there's a room with shallow pools of water. If you crouch, your saber will deactivate, so the whole "saber off in water" thing from JO is still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Originally posted by bodstevens Lightsabers don't emit heat (as stated in the tech guides and every where about lightsabers). Also stated is they don't expend energy tell they come in contact with something. From what I can tell when they do there is allot of heat. They don't really cut. They burn through stuff. If it was in water it would be like a red hot iron rod. It would be in constant contact with the water hissing and bubbling steam. It's not like a laser it is another form of energy. I'm pretty sure if it were possible to make a lightsaber water would short it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Wouldn't that just cause it to expend a lot of energy? Since the water can't come in through the blade emitter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Fisher Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Isn't this topic something like the question 'What species is Yoda?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 How much water could a Lightsaber swoler if a Lightsaber could swoler water? I would say swallow, but it doesn't rime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Sigh, I had written a Force Long Post (remind me not to do this late at night, heh) and accidentally deleted it before it could be posted. Anyway, here is the gist of it (I may add later when I come back from my out of town weekend): The only definitive bit of Star Wars lore the indicates lightsaber don't work in water is a "deleted scene" (apparently never made available to the public, as it is nowhere to be found on the TPM DVD's) from Episode I: The Phantom Menace.. it's the scene where Obi-Wan is running away from a STAP and Qui Gon "saves" him (right after Qui Gon "saves" Jar Jar and they meet for the first time). In the deleted scene, Qui Gon scolds Obi-Wan for allowing his saber to get wet, and advises him to clean/recharge it. We're given the impression that this is a "n00b mistake" for Jedi and that this may not be the first time Obi-Wan has done this. In the film this is entirely skipped. There is also a comic (that came out later) that details some of the events of TPM while inserting other (unseen) events. One of them (sorry can't recall the title.. maybe it was "Episode I Adventures: Obi-Wan"), Obi-Wan is shown using his lightsaber to "cut his way out" of a Trade Federation ship and that's how we "lands" on Naboo. But he cuts his way out in mid-air and lands in a swamp, getting himself soaked with his lightsaber ignited. Anyway, other than this, we see no evidence that water in any way negatively affects Lightsabers at least from what I've seen (I haven't read the NJO so somebody correct me if I'm wrong and show me where the Vong use super soakers to vanquish the Jedi in battle). In "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" (regarded as the first "Expanded Universe" novel, approved by George Lucas) Luke uses Anakin's saber (the blue one he got in ANH) underwater for extended periods and it works fine. It should be remembered that prior to the "deleted scene" being made public knowledge (in 1999) everybody assumed lightsabers could work in water. This is why Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith both featured some (excellent) underwater sequences where you used your saber as a glow rod to see where you were going (and fight off underwater monsters that came your way, as well as slashing grates). Logically if the saber was a self contained beam (say ultra hot plasma contained in a magnetic force field or something) it could be used under water. Anyway, in Attack of the Clones we see Obi-Wan use his lightsaber in a battle with Jango, and its pouring rain, plus his saber falls into puddles numerous times in the fight and yet still continues to function. Additionally, in TPM we saw Obi-Wan and Qui Gon swim to Gungan City with their lightsabers turned off (and they worked again once they got to the city of Theed after the Bongo trip), they almost certainly were soaked to the skin on their trip. So we are faced with several possible conclusions: 1) Ignore the deleted scene entirely. Normally the highest Star Wars canon are the films, but this doesn't say deleted scenes. The next order of canon are the film sources... the novelisations of the films, official screenplays and official radio dramas. These are canon, but can't contradict the films themselves. After that we have the Expanded Universe. So we could rationalize the scene without necessarily saying it never happened... 2) Assume that Obi-Wan's saber was of an inferior quality to later lightsabers witnessed in Star Wars (such as Anakin's saber seen 30 years later in Splinter of the Mind's Eye doing underwater feats or the Jedi Knight/MotS sabers another 6-11 years later than ANH). Perhaps even Obi-Wan's new saber in AOTC (10 years after TPM) is of better quality and can resist water. Perhaps "padawan sabers" are all of inferior quality and this happens a lot. This flies in the face of the fact that sabers don't work in water in Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy, however we don't know if LucasFilm forced this decision on Raven software when they designed the game, or if they just put it in in a misguided (IMHO) attempt to be more "up to date" (bearing in mind that at the time JK2 was made TPM was out but AOTC was not). It also is a convenient game difficulty enhancer (by making it so you can't use your saber in water) that may or may not have anything to do with the story at all. 3) Assume that Lightsaber are water resistant, TO A DEGREE. Perhaps a few raindrops and splashing in puddles is fine, but being fully immersed in water (especially swampy gunk filled water such as on Naboo) causes problems for sabers. Whereas clean shallow puddles and raindrops such as those seen in the Kamino fight in AOTC are not enough to "short out" a saber. Perhaps it only really matters if the blade is extended when it falls into water? This is a stretch, but we might also assume that Obi-Wan, remembering his master's admonition somehow used the Force to keep the water out of his saber or at least use the force to "turn it off" (so it was safe) every time it got near a puddle. I suppose he used the Force also to keep his cloak on during most of the fight as well (the same Force power Blade, Neo and Agent Smith use to keep their sunglasses on in their fights too I imagine, just kidding). In JK2 somebody made a map that was inspired by Canyon Oasis for JK1 that featured saber use in water. It wasn't animated well but it worked. So that wouldn't stop mod authors from also including this as a feature in their maps. Water is virtually non-existant in JK2/JA except as a SP hazard that renders you practically defensless anyway, or is simply a cleverly disguised "kill sector." JK1/MotS made excellent use of water in MP. Perhaps this could be imitated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Man ! Theres an identical post on the EU forum ! I'm seeing double !! http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116709 What KURGAN said above is right. There is some more on the official site, about how obi learnt to fix his saber so it wouldnt short after(its hilt) getting wet. He obviously figured it out as he fights jango in the rain(with his new saber).... I cant see sabers working under water, sabers(the actual 'blade')emit heat, as they cauterize wounds - how this can happen underwater is beyond moi. In something like rain, its fine as there is still a medium for the heat to escape(o2, or something similar). So although the light might still be projected its 'cutting ability' would be greatly dimished, making it ineffective as a weapon... this sorta reminds me of the training sabers old school padawans and Lukes academy students use, which are modulated to not emit as much heat, and just give a little sting on contact..... but I never want to get too technical about things that DON'T REALLY EXIST !!!!! MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 shouldn't we swamp this? and btw, if sabers don't emmit heat then what was up with qui gon and the trade fedration starship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Originally posted by IG-64 shouldn't we swamp this? and btw, if sabers don't emmit heat then what was up with qui gon and the trade fedration starship? what I meant is that their ability to emit heat UNDERWATER is would be diminished(potentially !) But I suggest we all stop thinking about it, and get back to JA... Jaden built her(/his) own lightsaber before she attended the academy, so I guess she still wasnt able to figure the shorting in water bit........ MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 There's been a lot of argument over this, but really, since the energy beam effectively seals off the top of the saber (emission point), as long as the rest is hermetically sealed, you're okay. A lightsaber really doesn't burn through things; it simply lets of heat from the reaction with certain objects such as metals. Moreover, the thing is so efficient that they can work for a couple thousand years - quite an engineering feat. If it just let off heat to do its job, it would run out of energy incredibly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
•-BLaCKouT-• Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yeah, the door on the Trade Federation ship - The energy from the blade causes the particles of the door to agitate to melting point. There'd be heat from the reaction of course, but none actually from the blade itself I get the impression that the deleted scene from EpI was dropped so that the Kamino fight would work. Up until that point, I'd taken the deleted scene to be canon. Oh, and In the Clone Wars cartoon, Kit Fisto's lightsaber works underwater. It's the basis of Ep5 I believe. And yes, of course I know they're not real. B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Sigh, I had written a Force Long Post (remind me not to do this late at night, heh) and accidentally deleted it before it could be posted. Anyway, here is the gist of it (I may add later when I come back from my out of town weekend): You call that a Force Long Post? Vagabond was the only one who ever truely mastered the Force Long Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 The energy from the blade causes the particles of the door to agitate to melting point. There'd be heat from the reaction of course, but none actually from the blade itself. Exactly. The energy would excite the molecules, imparting energy to the electrons at an incredible level, which would in essence raise the temp of the metal. However, the incredible thing about lightsabers is even with melting through doors they're still remarkably energy efficient. You'd probably only have to recharge it after a few months of heavy duty fighting and cutting. That would be the only difficulty underwater. The molecules would quickly be excited to the boiling point. However, it depends on what type of environment you're in: if it's very cold, even that much energy will quickly be bled off into the surrounding water. On Yavin IV, on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Well, it's very possible that the energy blade requires a certain amount of pressure to break the beam containment field and result in actual damage. If the water/air pressure isn't high enough to break the beam, it wouldn't come into contact with the damaging part of the blade and never evaporate. In addition, with this theory, it would explain how you could safely train with sabers (just not activate whatever is inside the beam containment field) and why the blade doesn't slice thru everything without any effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 The way i look at it is, its a video game. Back then they didnt have the knowledge (or just didnt want to) make the saber turn off, like in jk2 and ja. So of course, theres no way to make it cut off, so it cant turn off in water, so they just left it alone in 1997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 That would mean that the sabers actually brush the grass aside like in AotS! Did you rip this idea off it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Originally posted by Master_Keralys A lightsaber really doesn't burn through things It doesn't? Originally posted by Master_Keralys it simply lets of heat from the reaction with certain objects such as metals. I thoguht you said it didn't burn through things? Oh and don't forget heat is unusable "Master_Keralys" All this fuss over something that isn't real and most likely never will be. If George Lucas wanted a lightsaber to stand up and talk a lightsaber would stand up and talk. If he wants them to work underwater they will work underwater. Why, because it's make believe. It's just "Fiction" a fun little fantasy; however, don't let me detracted you guys from arguing about it. I think it's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTeddyPaul Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 This is from a mostly RPG stance as this discussion has long been debated amongst some of my friends adn myself. The basics that we all agreed on were that: Lightsabers don't emit heat in the sense that we know it. It is not like you can dry off by putting your wet clothes near the saber. Energy creates the light and can cauterize (sp?) the wounds doing their special saber thing. RPG: Lightsabers emit their energy and air can easily be passed through since the molecules are so thin and spaced out. Water has more substance and is more compact than air. DEPENDING ON HOW YOUR SABER IS BUILT depends on if you can use it in water. You can make it water proof but that does mean more advanced learning. You can use it in water but since the energy is actively conflicting with the water it is harder to control. Imagine people who heat up metal, shape it, and then put it in water. The boiling water is basically what you would get to a lesser degree since it isn't heat but energy. Basically you can use it under water if you have it built that way and you would need to roll a strength check (RP) to weild it properly because of the strains that water holds. I tried to make that as short and plain as possilbe. BigTeddyPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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