Admiral Chemix Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 most people have run on by default, there is a need for it, for those who like to explore maps or only duel in certain locations. How would it throw off game balance? Note that I am not trying to be anoying and yes I know it's ur mod, and yes I know I cannot controle what u do, it's just an anoying feature that I bet alot of people would like to turn off on certain servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 If people want to explore maps then they do it offline and not online. If people are only dueling, then surely they are also standing while doing nothing waiting for the next opponent; during that time they can simply meditate and the Force regenerates fully quite quickly. IMO I don't want to turn it off, I love this feature. I have "always run" on by default, but I also have a button which I can easilly press to make me walk if I have to, thus this doesn't affect me in any way. Adapt, that's what the objective of this system is, to make things more strategic and less random; if you don't want to stop running in the moments you strategicly find are good to regenerate, then play OJP Basic instead of OJP Enhanced. quote: ---------------------------------------- Manual blocking... this could just be me but it seems you have to walk backwards while blocking before you can go into a pure forward block... ---------------------------------------- Please explain farther, I don't know what you mean. What he means is that if you press forward+block you don't block, because blocks only work in 7 directions and not when pressing forward; you have to press another direction to cause the block animation to occur before you can walk forward with that directional block activated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Chemix Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 first of all, I've been on servers, duelers don't stand and wait for passers by. Second of all, do u mean this should be meant for those with high speed comnnections only? 56k sucks, I know, UPGRADE TO CABLE!, I know. The mod should be offliner freindly aswell. As for strategy, Yeah I'm all for strategy, adapting and such, but such an option should be toggleable for those who don't like slowly walking everywhere, people don't use walk often, just durring duels mostly from what I've seen, if it were to be for the dueling game mode and for ffa duels, then it would be a nice feature to stop force spamming and cowards, but it affects normal gameplay, running and jumping becomes a hassle. All I ask is a simple cvar to turn it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sun Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I also play on servers. The majority I tried are just people dueling in a FFA envirognment, so things don't change too much from just dueling in those kinds of servers. Duelers sometimes do stop and wait for the next person if the place they are at is a known dueling spot in a FFA map, especially if there's other people around them watching the duels; someone will quickly fill in the spot if that's the case. Regardless, what really should be done is to ensure the Force bar and Dodge bar are filled once the duel is over (assuming people use the call duel button) and also when the duel begins. That should solve things in FFA servers. If it doesn't, it means you're spamming special moves in the middle of a crowd trying to get a lucky hit and kill a couple of them in the mess of swinging sabers, which is something this system aims to correct. My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 What he means is that if you press forward+block you don't block, because blocks only work in 7 directions and not when pressing forward; you have to press another direction to cause the block animation to occur before you can walk forward with that directional block activated. Well, the main reason is that there's no bottom/down block position in the game. Personally I think it works out since it allows you to move forward with a block position. I might do something about that at some point. first of all, I've been on servers, duelers don't stand and wait for passers by. Second of all, do u mean this should be meant for those with high speed comnnections only? 56k sucks, I know, UPGRADE TO CABLE!, I know. The mod should be offliner freindly aswell. As for strategy, Yeah I'm all for strategy, adapting and such, but such an option should be toggleable for those who don't like slowly walking everywhere, people don't use walk often, just durring duels mostly from what I've seen, if it were to be for the dueling game mode and for ffa duels, then it would be a nice feature to stop force spamming and cowards, but it affects normal gameplay, running and jumping becomes a hassle. All I ask is a simple cvar to turn it off The point is to prevent people from just turning and running away when they run low on fatigue. I want people to have to be able to conserve their energy to win battles. The only time when this will affect running around and jumping is after you make at least 3 full powered without slowing down to a walk/stop to regen. All the maps are set up so you don't have to jump everywhere anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Enhanced v0.0.2 beta 3 - Dodge Blocking works now. - PreCog (IE dodging before something happens) Dodges for thermal weapons and other explosive weapons. - Walk speed increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Chemix Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I don't know if this was intentional or not, but saber attacks seem to be draining force. I know force spam is a problem and all, but for heavens sake man, sometimes jump during fights, go get health, Yes people run away and get health and come back, yeah, thats sorta the point of the medpacks, no offense but u need to stop with the force restrictions it kinda makes them worthless and pointless to use. Which defeats the purpose of having the force at all, the way this is going, u might aswell disable medpacks and armor packs, get rid of force, make it guns and single sabers only. And u might very well attempt to do this, which would suck, but it's ur mod, I just hate everything draining my force pool, even when I don't use force, it gets realy anoying, when I say anoying I mean ANOYING. I'm not saying I hate the whole mod, just the dang force draining & no regen while running parts. People will run away with or without force, then they will use medpacks and they will come back, thats the point of the medpack, it's not meant for just strong players only who have just one a duel match. There will be cowards yes, there will be newbies, yes, are all mod made maps made for non force users, no, certain things require force u know, not everyone only plays the raven maps, and even then u have to use force in some to get to certain areas. I'm not trying to sound rude, I'm not trying to sound like a controle freak, I'm not trying to force u to change ur mod, I just think that u will screw ur whole mod with these dang features which can't be turned off, because u don't want to go through the hassle of making cvars, or because u want people to play ur way, ur vision, and it alone. I'm afraid u'll ruin ur mod, thats all. I don't want u to screw it up. I like ur mod allot, just not these new features designed to impose ur version of gameplay, I know, I know it's ur mod, I just wish to help, thank u for reading this, have a great day modders and good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Originally posted by Admiral Chemix I don't know if this was intentional or not, but saber attacks seem to be draining force. I know force spam is a problem and all, but for heavens sake man, sometimes jump during fights, go get health, Yes people run away and get health and come back, yeah, thats sorta the point of the medpacks, no offense but u need to stop with the force restrictions it kinda makes them worthless and pointless to use. Which defeats the purpose of having the force at all, the way this is going, u might aswell disable medpacks and armor packs, get rid of force, make it guns and single sabers only. And u might very well attempt to do this, which would suck, but it's ur mod, I just hate everything draining my force pool, even when I don't use force, it gets realy anoying, when I say anoying I mean ANOYING. I'm not saying I hate the whole mod, just the dang force draining & no regen while running parts. People will run away with or without force, then they will use medpacks and they will come back, thats the point of the medpack, it's not meant for just strong players only who have just one a duel match. There will be cowards yes, there will be newbies, yes, are all mod made maps made for non force users, no, certain things require force u know, not everyone only plays the raven maps, and even then u have to use force in some to get to certain areas. I'm not trying to sound rude, I'm not trying to sound like a controle freak, I'm not trying to force u to change ur mod, I just think that u will screw ur whole mod with these dang features which can't be turned off, because u don't want to go through the hassle of making cvars, or because u want people to play ur way, ur vision, and it alone. I'm afraid u'll ruin ur mod, thats all. I don't want u to screw it up. I like ur mod allot, just not these new features designed to impose ur version of gameplay, I know, I know it's ur mod, I just wish to help, thank u for reading this, have a great day modders and good luck With Dodge in place, health and armor packs are going to be much less utility. I've yet to hear you say anything positive about any of Enhanced features before or after the betas. Again, you sound like you're more interested in the non-gameplay altering Basic distro rather than the Enhanced one. If you want to constantly run around, jump like a monkey, or spam attack, stick to Basic. The point of Basic to provide the non-gameplay alter features of OJP to the people that don't want other changes to the game. With Basic in place, we can then use Enhanced as a playground for more radical changes. My particular additions to Enhanced are focused on making the game more "realistic" and more challenging. In addition, please use paragraphs to seperate up your posts. Not doing so makes it very hard to read your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 razor is currently trying to fix that problem, we arent sure exactly how though as of yet, he wants to stop spamming, but freedom and ability to do stuff must be kept. any ideas are welcomed, dont critisize without an idea to help him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pahricida Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 hrm I've noticed that the Force Fall abilty is pretty annoying when trying to strafe jump... Perhaps you could avoid that by activating force fall through a key combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 ok here is the best setting that ive found, everyone use these g_forceregen 325 g_dodgeregen 2000 g_saberanimspeed .7 sv_fps 100 and does anyone know the saberlock cvar??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiberator34 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 why not have force fall activate when you hold down crouch and jump at the same time? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 chage that, make saberanimspeed .65 perfect for aiming, dont worry we'll change reds speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Originally posted by Pahricida hrm I've noticed that the Force Fall abilty is pretty annoying when trying to strafe jump... Perhaps you could avoid that by activating force fall through a key combination. Yeah, I'll fix that. I gotta find the speed at which fall damage occurs and then set Force Fall to activate a little above that speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keshire Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 why not have force fall activate when you hold down crouch and jump at the same time? Just a thought. I'd like to see that turned into a dive move actually. jump and then immediatly press crouch to dive. It's one of the things on my to-do list once Corto releases his animatable skel. Along two versions of it. One where you hit the ground and roll and another where you continue the dive when you hit water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 yeah, sounds like a cool move. Anyway.... Enhanced v0.0.2b4 - Removed manual blocking button. Replaced it with block/parry button. Hold to block incoming saber attacks. To parry incoming attacks, press and hold the block button right before an attack will hit. Entering block/parry mode costs 1 FP but you can stay in it as long as you want without cost. However, remember that your parry bonuses (chances of forcing your attacker into a knockaway, etc.) go way down after a second or so off holding the block button. - Totally hacked the bots to walk instead of run everywhere. - Remember to make sure that... sv_fps is set to 50 or 100. g_saberDmgDelay_Wound = at least 100 cl_maxpackets = sv_fps - g_debugsabercombat 7 = Debug messages for the parry bonus results. - g_dodgeRegenTime changed to 1000 - g_forceRegenTime changed to 500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Suddenly the title of this thread reminded me of the Steve Balmer "Developers!" video. lol Good luck with the test guys. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soruss Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 The dodge roll is very, very, very annoying. It's just rediculous when your character and your opponent are rolling every single strike. Not to mention the falling off the cliff issue. Takes a looooooooooooooooooooong time to kill someone. 4 or 5 strikes one after another in yellow stance. I had damage scale set at 2, does this even change dodge? My guess is no. When you auto block it automatically repositions your saber as you hold down the button, sometime this is annoying because I am lining up the block and all of a sudden my saber moves. Maybe if the saber would stay in it's initial position as the button is held down? Force fall still works if no force is on. It'd be nice if force fall had a seperate button other than jump, I find it kind of annoying when I'm landing and goto take a second jump and I force fall just before I hit the ground and mess up my second jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Soruss The dodge roll is very, very, very annoying. It's just rediculous when your character and your opponent are rolling every single strike. Not to mention the falling off the cliff issue. make sure that g_DmgDelay_wound is set to non-zero. I recommend 100. That will help. I'll work on the falling off cliffs issue. Takes a looooooooooooooooooooong time to kill someone. 4 or 5 strikes one after another in yellow stance. I had damage scale set at 2, does this even change dodge? My guess is no. That is intentional to some degree. Set g_regenDodgeTime to something higher. Ive been playing with 1000 but it might need to be higher than that. When you auto block it automatically repositions your saber as you hold down the button, sometime this is annoying because I am lining up the block and all of a sudden my saber moves. Maybe if the saber would stay in it's initial position as the button is held down? Yeah, I don't exactly like that much either. I like your idea thou. We might try that. Force fall still works if no force is on. It'd be nice if force fall had a seperate button other than jump, I find it kind of annoying when I'm landing and goto take a second jump and I force fall just before I hit the ground and mess up my second jump. Noted. I'll fix the no force bug ASAP. As for Force Fall activation, I'm going to be upping the minimum fall speed to activate it so that should fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Only bugs I've noticed so far (in only about half an hour of testing last night on beta 3) were: The RGB Sabers, though they work great, have a little wierd stuff in the menus. You can (manually, by clicking just past the edge) or actually type in, values less than 0. I think the lowest it'll go manually is -12; I haven't messed with it that much with typing. Not a big deal; it just subtracts whatever neg # you have in from 255, apparently. The aforementioned saber passthru - you said this can be fixed with sv_fps and whatnot, so I'm not worried about it. I'm assuming you're going to make all those standard at some point? Did you update the walk speed? B/c holy crud that was slow! I can see what you're doing and whatnot, but raising it even by a fourth from its b3 value would help immensely. The only other recommendation I'd make after playing it so far is this: have a separate Force regen bar from the Fatigue bar. (Maybe just put fatigue in the same area as Dodge, which would make sense). The reason for this is that I personally feel Fatigue and Force should affect each other but not necessarily be the same thing. Perhaps the more fatigued one is, the slower Force regens. It also leads to the idea of thus having a Force Refresh power that refills your fatigue bar but drains a ton of Force. Fantastic gameplay; the little bit of work I did with the saber stuff is excellent; I've already modified the sabers I used to be compatible with it ridiculously easily, so nice job. I like the manual blocking, so Ii'll have to see with the parry. Is it still directional like the manual blocking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Chemix Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 enhanced features I like New menu options New saber color options rgb and such Old Gametypes Available, Jedi Master, Holocron.... True Veiw Better Hit detection Upped vehicle limit Enhanced Features I dislike Force drain with saber attacks lack of force regen while running slow walking to force regen bot problems having to do with the new saber system Perhaps u should make an enhanced lite LoL or the easiest solution, cvars If u were already planning to put the features I mentioned in the enhanced features I like list in basic, then nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Okay, I've put about another hour and a half in. There seems to be little or no problem with the rgb saber stuff, true view, menu. Most of the cvars seem to be fine. Now, maybe it's just me doing something wrong, but cg_sabermelee doesn't seem to work at all; it's doing the stupid "Let's make it a text chat" thing instead of a command. Is it just me screwing something up or is there actually something wrong with it? After playing around with it this much, I haven't noticed but a few major bugs. First, even with the settings all set at least where razor and the others have been having success, my disgusting saber passthru without damage is still happening, more so with two or staff sabers than with single, but still there will all of 'em. Obviously the bots are screwy, so I'm taking that into account (that's all I can play against for now). Even so, I'd stand there with my saber off and just watch several different bots just hack like mad at me and see the pretty little trails go through me and take no damage. It's almost like it's doing dodge code - but without the animation or the meter dropping. Not sure on that one. The other big problem that may or may not need to be addressed within this release is that the grapple moves are seriously overpowered. I could just run around in melee mode and annihilate Jedi Master-level saber user bots with ease. The grapples (the forward and standing still are ridiculously easy to land) destroy the people, and there doesn't seem to be any way out. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to land the head-knee bashing back grapple ever. Some balance there would help immensely. Admiral - go check the readme, but I'm pretty sure that all of those are in Basic. Hit detection might be the only one that isn't... As far as the bots go, they weren't programmed to use this system, so the fact that they're working at all is enough for me. I love the slowing of the anims when low on Fatigue points: I would make it happen at a slightly higher value, though (I think it's at ten right now, 20 would be better). And, after playing it this much, I think there definitely needs to be a difference between Force and Fatigue. My suggestion would be that the less fatigue points one has, the slower Force regens, and vice versa. As I mentioned earlier, one could even create a new Force power that would regen some Fatigue but at high cost. This seems to fit in better with the movies and books, where Jedi often use the Force to refresh themselves - but are a little drained of the Force itself afterwards. I think this would eliminate the problem of Force depending on walk speed (not so consistent with the SW universe, as evidence by Jedi enhancing their speed with the force ie Speed). Likewise, using a lightsaber doesn't drain a Jedi's ability to touch the Force, it simply physically tires him. Instead, only Fatigue should depend on walk speed, and Force it's own thing that regens on its own. Just my two cents... Oh, and after this - walk speed isn't bad. A little faster might be nice, but overall this isn't too bad. Finally, I'm not sure I like the current parry system as well. I liked the manual block better. Perhaps some combo of the two would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soruss Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 "make sure that g_DmgDelay_wound is set to non-zero. I recommend 100. That will help. I'll work on the falling off cliffs issue." I'm pretty sure it was at 100. Is it possible to disable the rolling? It bothers me enough that I'd say I wouldn't bother playing MP against anyone with dodge rolling. I'd prefer that an automated system doesn't have such rash control over my movement. I can roll to dodge quite well on my own =P On that note, maybe rolling should take fatigue? Maybe some of the special jumping moves might take fatigue instead of force, or maybe just jumping in general might take a bit of fatigue? Might stop people from randomly jumping around. Although one of the fun things about JK2 is turning on speed and jumping around the levels. Sorry, random splurge of ideas. "That is intentional to some degree. Set g_regenDodgeTime to something higher. Ive been playing with 1000 but it might need to be higher than that." I'll try setting it higher. Would a cvar for the damage done to the dodge meter be a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by Master_Keralys The RGB Sabers, though they work great, have a little wierd stuff in the menus. You can (manually, by clicking just past the edge) or actually type in, values less than 0. I think the lowest it'll go manually is -12; I haven't messed with it that much with typing. Not a big deal; it just subtracts whatever neg # you have in from 255, apparently. I checked the menu files and it looks like both issues are just general problems with menu engine. Not really something I can fix. Fortunately, it sounds like sanity checks within the rgb saber system are properly handling the bad values. The aforementioned saber passthru - you said this can be fixed with sv_fps and whatnot, so I'm not worried about it. I'm assuming you're going to make all those standard at some point? Did you update the walk speed? B/c holy crud that was slow! I can see what you're doing and whatnot, but raising it even by a fourth from its b3 value would help immensely. Well, unfortunately, it looks like I can't have the code change the nessicary cvars to boost the fps from inside the code. So, instead I'll be doing a tweak guide to explain which cvars have to be changed for improved internet connections and hit connection. And yes, I am aware that the walk speed still feels slow. I'm still tweaking it based on beta testing feedback. It will be higher in the next beta. The only other recommendation I'd make after playing it so far is this: have a separate Force regen bar from the Fatigue bar. I've had that suggested before but I don't really see the benefit in it. Plus, it would also mean ANOTHER meter on the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Originally posted by razoraceWell, unfortunately, it looks like I can't have the code change the nessicary cvars to boost the fps from inside the code. So, instead I'll be doing a tweak guide to explain which cvars have to be changed for improved internet connections and hit connection. And yes, I am aware that the walk speed still feels slow. I'm still tweaking it based on beta testing feedback. It will be higher in the next beta. Okay. Not a problem with the fps thing, I just figured I'd check and see; that will through some newbies at first. I'm glad to hear you're looking at walk speed. In my personal opinion, about 1/4 to 1/3 again as fast would be about perfect. I've had that suggested before but I don't really see the benefit in it. Plus, it would also mean ANOTHER meter on the screen. I just personally find it a little irritating. It's no bid deal really; the only reason I'd even make it is to allow for the "Force Refresh" power and to make it a little more lifelike. And I was thinking about it meter-wise: you could just stick it inside the Dodge meter (the same way health and shields) display. If you choose not to do so, it's no biggie. I just think it would enhance the gameplay a little. One other thing I noticed about the grapple: because of the current dodge system, you're way too hard to kill with a lightsaber when you're in melee mode. Maybe it's the faulty hit detection I'm still getting (and probably a little b/c it's bots I'm playing against), but the insane ease I have of surviving against two or sometimes even 3 saber users with just my fists and feet seems unrealistic. No single person, all else being equal, should be able to take out three saber users who match him in ability with just grapples, punches, and kicks. I'm not sure how to get around that, but the dodge makes you nearly invincible if you're half-way decent at normal manual dodges. Is the feint system still present? I couldn't get it to work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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