Is God's power really finite?

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by Kain

How would he do this? 'Lucifer starts a war with God, man! And then, God sends him to Hell man! And Lucifer looks like this GOAT-MAN...MAN!!'

 

Ironicly speaking, the Greek hierarchy had goat-men too,known as Satyrs, and they were turned into Satan...hm...

 

Wait..are you saying that Christians coverted goat-men like Satyrs and Lucifer into demons, or that goats are the root of all evil?

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Feanaro

Well i guess we looka t things differently, is the glass half empty or half full?

 

the glass is always full, of course. full of atoms of what ever element.

maybe that will result in half the glass' volume filled up with water and the rest is usually filled up with "air".

 

so is half of the glass full with water? indeed.

 

[--ZeeMan--]

i'm certain portions of christianity comes from the greeks. the whole belief that there is this world, and then the next world of heaven or hell comes straight out of plato. and yes, i did hear about that egyptian involvement too kain, but i dont' remember too much about it

[The_One]

I thought the bible states that God is all-powerful? Which, to me, and many others creates a dilemma...

 

If God is a loving being, he must presumably wish to rid the world of evil. If he is all-powerful, he must have the ability to rid the world of evil. However, evil - undeniably - exists in the world. Therefore, an all-powerful, loving God either does not exist, or this all-powerful God would have to be evil.

 

Although, if God's power is finite, then it would explain why he deson't get off his ass and rid the world of evil.

 

Religion. Pah! More contradictions than sheep in New Zealand

[--ZeeMan--]

Originally posted by The_One

I thought the bible states that God is all-powerful? Which, to me, and many others creates a dilemma...

 

If God is a loving being, he must presumably wish to rid the world of evil. If he is all-powerful, he must have the ability to rid the world of evil. However, evil - undeniably - exists in the world. Therefore, an all-powerful, loving God either does not exist, or this all-powerful God would have to be evil.

 

Although, if God's power is finite, then it would explain why he deson't get off his ass and rid the world of evil.

 

Religion. Pah! More contradictions than sheep in New Zealand

 

 

here's the theological answer to that as crafted by st. augustine:

 

god is all powerful and all knowing.

 

god created man IN his own image AND likeness.

 

man had a bout with pride which led to the first sin.

 

therefore, man created sin by being prideful.

 

 

i know it's kinda hard to believe, but it does answer a lot of questions. how can a morally good god allow sin in his creation if he's all powerful? simply put he didn't create it so it's not his creation to control. yes my explanation does bring up even more questions, but in religion, any answer will.

[ShadowTemplar]

*sigh* Here we go again. These threads rarely prove particularily enlightening or constructive, but - for the benefit of the lurkers - here goes:

 

Originally posted by Feanaro

Well look at it this way, if the earth was moved a couple degrees toward the sun it would burn up, and in the other direction it would freeze. That seems pretty good to me!

 

Not really. Given an infinite spacetime continuum you'd expect to find an inhabitable planet somewhere. And given enough time, you'd expect it to become inhabited. It's simply the law of big numbers.

 

A really good analogy is that of the pool of water on the pavement:

 

A pool of water lies on the pavement of 42nd Street, NY. It realises that it fits perfectly into the hollow it lies in, and concludes that the hollow was, of course, created so that it could occupy it.

 

The stupidity of the water's conclusion is obvious to the human mind, because we as humans know that the water pooled there because of the hollow, not the other way around. Similarily, the argument that the universe is so finely attuned to life that it must have been created is a fallacity, simply because the obvious conclusion is that life arose because the universe works in a way that makes it possible, not the other way around.

 

The point would have been a lot better, had the universe been supremely hostile towards life. Then it would have been impressive that life could flourish. Now it is simply the trivial conclusion when you evaluate the equation of the universe to its ultimate, logical conclusion: Life is possible, therefore life will exist.

 

the only answer to it is undying faith in God!

 

A claim that, when taken to its logical conclusion can result only in mindless obedience of totalitarian taskmasters. Welcome to Oceania... And remember: Big Brother is watching!

 

[disclaimer] I'm not saying that you - or anyone else - are mindless automatons. I was simply taking your statement to its logical conclusion in order to clarify why blind faith (and faith is, by way of definition, always blind) is a bad idea.[/disclaimer]

 

Tyrion, sorry if i came off as a jerk. it wasn't my intention. It's just when i'm really passionate about something i become really defensive. Sorry!

 

Oh, you're not being a jerk. Mebbe a little short on education, but definitely not a jerk. If you want to see jerk, you should check out some of your fellow believers in the Swamp (none named, none forgotten, and no implication of causation between jerkyness and belief intended (although it is my experience that there is a certain correlation)).

 

'Lucifer starts a war with God, man

 

From what I remember from Religion class, Lucifer doesn't start any war. It merely questions Jahve's (ab)use of its arbitrary power... For some reason, Jahve decides to use said arbitrary power to swat Lucifer out of the skies.

 

Well i guess we looka t things differently, is the glass half empty or half full? I look at life as a miracle given to us by God, along with everything else that God created on earth. Such as animals, trees, skies, oceans.

 

I sometimes wonder how it would feel to see the world that way... Overlaid with pink perhaps? j/k

 

Seriously, though, I simply cannot make a mental picture of what it would be like. And that fact troubles both my curiosity and my sense of self preservation.

 

If God is a loving being, he must presumably wish to rid the world of evil. If he is all-powerful, he must have the ability to rid the world of evil. However, evil - undeniably - exists in the world. Therefore, an all-powerful, loving God either does not exist, or this all-powerful God would have to be evil.

 

Evil, however, is by neccesity a relative and subjective term. That follows from the existence of free will. So, even an all-powerful deity would be unable to rid the world of evil (without ridding it of humanity as well), because what one persons views as evil may be viewed by another person at another time and place as good.* By way of example, Christianity preaches that freedom of thought is evil, whereas most civilized societies base their entire ideology around it. Curiously, though, the two (Christianity and Civilisation) continue to exist in some semblance of peace and coexistence.

 

* Which, of course, results in another paradox...

[lukeskywalker1]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Ha! Not a lot of proof for the christian "stuff" either if you think about ..... only circular proofs.

 

 

Lol, I was going to say that in the other thread... "theres no proof" but anyways...

 

Let me do some looking around the good old internet (of course, just because you find it on the internet, doesnt mean its true....)

 

BTW, ..... where did any of you get that Satan looked like a goat-man?

 

 

here's the theological answer to that as crafted by st. augustine:

 

god is all powerful and all knowing.

 

god created man IN his own image AND likeness.

 

man had a bout with pride which led to the first sin.

 

therefore, man created sin by being prideful.

 

 

Sounds good

 

 

If God is a loving being, he must presumably wish to rid the world of evil. If he is all-powerful, he must have the ability to rid the world of evil. However, evil - undeniably - exists in the world. Therefore, an all-powerful, loving God either does not exist, or this all-powerful God would have to be evil.

 

Umm.. no.. is that tree evil? Or are you just talking about beings that can reason? God is perfect. He is omnipotent. He is God.

 

I think people don't understand that you can both be a good christian and wondering how this and that came into the Bible.

They seem to obey to anything blindly without asking questions whatsoever.

 

So.. what is a good Christian? How can a good Christian doubt his religion?

[MennoniteHobbit]

(And mennonite, most of your posts seem to be so vague and indefinite, I'd like to hear your honest opinion..)

 

So, you really want to hear my opinion? Well, I haven't decided yet... I still have more facts to sift through. It's hard to decide when it comes to religion... like I said, I still have more facts to sift through.

 

Let me start off saying... I don't really care if God had infinite powers or not. He is God, and that's that. If I believe in Him, then it does not matter, whether he is or not, though I may choose to believe he is. I believe that He is in fact omnipotent... but choosing whether I believe in Him or not is still a decision I haven't made yet.

 

Also, if you choose to believe in something... why, you should believe in it anyway... because it's what's worth believing in the first place. This may be blind, but it doesn't matter does it? If you have something, someone to believe in, you will always feel good, and have something/someone to turn to in times of pain, suffering, and trouble. Or at least that's me.

 

Secondly... I'm not sure humans even have to understand God's decisions, will, etc. We carry out what we were meant to do. If God wanted to create the world in 6 days, then so be it. Accept things the way they are. Hindsight is 20/20. Yet, if God has infinite powers indeed, then why did He take 6 days to do it? Is there a hidden meaning for humans to interpret from it? Was He doing that on purpose, spending each day, crafting man, animal, etc. each day, individually? Or, since He was in fact making humans as an image of Himself, wouldn't that take forever... if He is perfect, omnipotent, -niscient, etc.? I have yet to discover. Was there some divine purpose? I have no clue. Tell me. I'm confused.

 

And if God had infinite powers, why would He create humans? Was He bored? Was He wanting to create an image of himself only? Like lukeskywalker1 said? So, after creating humans... humans turned out to be less than perfect. If He had infinite powers, couldn't he just "zap" the sinful humans away, and make another, perfect batch of humans? No... if He knows all, is omniscient.. then he knows that you stole that candy bar from the vending machine. So, in exposing humans to the sin that we've already previously encountered... is the reason so that we will learn? Learn from our mistakes? Is He tired of watching our mere, everyday boring lives, tired of correcting it Himself... so we have to adapt to it? Are we His experiment? If He is powerful, then why does He waste his time with humans such as us?

 

Is there such thing as pure religion? From this I mean... if there is religion... then science, biological science that is, wouldn't exist would it? My friends say that adaptation, evolution and the lot of those theories are false, simply because God did everything. So, does religion disprove science itself? I don't believe so. Science and religion can co-exist, with minor formalities. You cannot say one is wrong just because the other says.

 

On a side note- I hope everyone who is not religious, take the role of an atheist that does not support religion; not an atheist who expresses hatred, disgust, or is anti-religious. Just because you don't believe in something/someone, doesn't mean you automatically go against it.

 

So.. what is a good Christian? How can a good Christian doubt his religion?

 

A good Christian can't doubt his/her own religion, IMHO.

 

he cannot control time.

 

What if He can, but doesn't want to? I said above something about why He created humans, and if He is experimenting with us. Read it.

 

And yes, if after reading my post... you noticed that I brought up a lot of questions... you're not the only one.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit

A good Christian can't doubt his/her own religion, IMHO.

 

This, to me, is foolishness. We must be allowed to have doubts in everything, or we will never grow as human beings, or as a species. If people had never had their doubts about science we'd believe the world is flat, and we wouldn't have these fancy computers with this dang fangled internet.

 

doubt is necessary for growth.

[Ray Jones]

doubt is the beginning of wisdom.

[MennoniteHobbit]

Doubt, to lean towards learning more about your own religion is good. But, doubting your own religion to the point of not believing in it anymore.

 

Doubt is a good thing, but there's always an exception. As long as you still believe in your own religion, and doubt it only to learn more about it, and why, then that is a good thing.

[Ray Jones]

Doubt is a good thing, but there's always an exception. As long as you still believe in your own religion, and doubt it only to learn more about it, and why, then that is a good thing.

 

but it makes no sense to doubt things you dont want to give up believing in. if one thing can be "in doubt" then everything else must be doubtable too. also doubt leads to knowledge, not to belief.

[ShadowTemplar]

Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit

Doubt is a good thing, but there's always an exception. As long as you still believe in your own religion, and doubt it only to learn more about it, and why, then that is a good thing.

 

But if it cannot stand up to scrutiny, then there can be no point in adhering to it, can there?

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit

Doubt, to lean towards learning more about your own religion is good. But, doubting your own religion to the point of not believing in it anymore.

 

Doubt is a good thing, but there's always an exception. As long as you still believe in your own religion, and doubt it only to learn more about it, and why, then that is a good thing.

What's the point of doubting if you mind is already made up to belive it? How can you have truely doubted it?

 

If god is so loving, Why would we go to hell just for not worshipping him? what about Jews? they worship god, but don't believe christ was the son of god, why should they suffer a fate of hell? After all, isn't the point of worshipping god to wel... worship him? Besides if jesus died for everyones sins, why should it matter if you believe in him or not? or that you have to "accept him into your heart" in order to be saved from hell?

I thought he died for everyones sins, doesn't that include the "sin" of those not being a follower of christ?

If I sacrificed myself to give everyone a clean slate, I'd make sure it meant, everyone, not just my followers and believers. But everyone, even if they denied my existence, position as the son of god. Because if I was truely a loving god/son of god, It'd be in my will to protect all that I(or my father) created.

 

also, I'd consider it more of a miracle if god came down in physical form, and stopped each rapist. Instead of these other "miracles" you hear about.

[Ray Jones]

or, to put it on the edge, i could be a "sinner" (the whole program, y'know) all my life, and when it's coming to an end i can "find my way to god" and will be "saved" because "all my sins will be forgotten". isnt that unfair against the "always doing good guys" who only dont believe, but will be send to hell, because they never will find a "way to god"?

[toms]

there's the whole mel gibson quote about his wife being a much better person than him, but she is going to hell because she is the wrong sort of christian. sigh. Don't get that sort of thing at all.

 

Surely all these people who have faith in god have faith for a reason? Some experience they have had? (the whole born again christian thing).

 

If I have had no such experience then I have the option of either "pretending" to believe in god. (ie, going to church, saying "i believe in god and nothing you can say will change that") or continuing to question the world around me until i find an answer.

 

I know what the sort of god i would like would want me to do.

 

I'd like to know if mennonite or any of the others here have had any sort of religious "awakening", or if they are just christians because they were born and brought up in a christian society?

 

If it is the latter then surely they haven't "found god" any more than I have.

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by Tyrion

I thought of this when I was remembering about how Sunday was created for God to rest on after his six days of work. Now..wouldn't he require no days, just a "poof" and the world would be created? If he has to work, then his power is ultimately infinitely more finite than everyone says...which means he isn't the Omega, not the Alpha, because the bible indirectly says that his power is limited, and that he cannot control time.

 

What do you guys think about this? Do I have a point, or have I had one too many of Rhett's jawa juices?

 

 

Wow. I never thought of that before. You've convinced me. I no longer believe in God. Instead, I'll worship the trees and the wind, listen to Godsmack, and be totally gay. Way to completely tear the myth that is creation down, Mr. Darwin.

[ShadowTemplar]

Originally posted by RayJones

or, to put it on the edge, i could be a "sinner" (the whole program, y'know) all my life, and when it's coming to an end i can "find my way to god" and will be "saved" because "all my sins will be forgotten". isnt that unfair against the "always doing good guys" who only dont believe, but will be send to hell, because they never will find a "way to god"?

 

Bluntly put, that's a political decision within the early Church. Fairness doesn't enter into it.

 

Wow. I never thought of that before. You've convinced me. I no longer believe in God.

 

No need to be sarcastic. He's got a valid point.

[Master_Keralys]

The Catholic church would've, at least once in it's entire exsistance, changed the bible to thier own benefit.

 

Actually, no - we have scrolls dating from the 1st century AD that are more accurate than any other historical document from that age to now. The Bible has not changed in nearly 2000 years. Specifically, the only differences are minor changes in phrasing or word choice that don't change the overall meaning of the text.

 

If God is a loving being, he must presumably wish to rid the world of evil. If he is all-powerful, he must have the ability to rid the world of evil. However, evil - undeniably - exists in the world. Therefore, an all-powerful, loving God either does not exist, or this all-powerful God would have to be evil.

 

This has already been answered to a certain extent, but here we go: If God is all-powerful, He retains the ability not to act as well as to act. And if He wishes to create persons capable of fully realized interaction with Him, those persons must have free will. His intervention to prevent any evil from occurring - that is, to stop all humanity from acting - removes free will.

 

because what one persons views as evil may be viewed by another person at another time and place as good

 

Here's the theologically based response to that: if God is real and all-powerful, then what any given person believes is good or evil at a given point in time doesn't mean squat. Period. Only what God says are good and evil matter.

 

Now, back to the point of the debate: is God truly all-powerful (this means that we're assuming His existence, not debating it... at least that's my take. Start another thread if you want to debate his existence). Simply because He does not choose to intervene constantly does not mean He is not all-powerful. Oh - and the seven days thing. Everyone consistently interprets that to mean both the American sense of "rest" - which it doesn't so much - and that it means He needed to rest - which isn't necessarily true. The actual word used there is more in the sense of simply being done with a job than needing to recuperate from it. Secondly, simply because one finishes a job doesn't mean one is tired or needs to rest...

 

Next, of course He could do it in a moment. But according to the Biblical account, He didn't. That doesn't mean He couldn't. Now, the logical response it "Then why didn't he if he could?" I'm not saying that's not a valid argument, but if you're going to assume there is a God, then by definition He is greater in abilities and intelligence than a human. That's what makes a god. So His motivations in taking His time is not necessarily something a human comprehend. Finally, we have the "length of the seven days" argument that comes into play - but none of these demonstrate that He is or is not all-powerful on a conclusive level. Technically, nothing can, because there is no test that can show it... (I can hear the epistemic naturalists screaming "See? We told you so!!" already...)

[Crazy_dog no.3]

No I'm not a "beleiver", but i think if God existed/exists and created the world, maybe He did it over a period of time becuase although He could have done it by the whole "poof and it's there" it would have been boring otherwise. Maybe God limits His own power so as to make things more interesting for Himself.

 

 

However that does bring in the fact that if His power was infinite, he could clap his hands and it would be physically impossible for Him to be bored at any given time.

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar

No need to be sarcastic. He's got a valid point.

 

That's a matter of opinion. As a former atheist, I too used to try and be cool and say "how about this?" "how about that?". The list of holes in religious documentation goes on and on. I made my wife cry once just mentioning "where are dinosaurs in the bible?" My point, though it may not be deemed "valid" by you is this: Why do atheists care? Why not just be content with your smugness? I mean, according to faith and doctrine, Christians are required to try and convert people. But what, other than spite, drives the atheist? All I can come up with, is a need to look down at someone. A need to feel like everyone you don't agree with is a fool, and/or somehow less intelligent, and a need to point that out. And everytime I see something like this thread, I think that surely I'm not the only man to have ever had a faltering in my own faith. A moment where I said to myself "this is nonsense. How can any of this crap be true? How can I be expected to believe it?"

 

I don't need "a valid point" to ask my own questions. Or find my own answers. Or form my own opinions. I realize this is a public board, moreover, a public debating board. So things like this will come up. I just always wonder why these ultra-trendy-hipster-know it all-atheists give a rats ass what I believe? Yeah yeah yeah, I know. "well if not for religion, all the wars would never happen", and blah blah blah. Nonsense. I've heard that argument a dozen times over. If you honestly believe that if everyone in the world suddenly renounced God, or whoever they worship, that all of the worlds troubles would just *POOF* dissapear, you're a bigger fool than anyone you point down and laugh at from your Darwinian throne. You could be killed today, by someone very close to you, in a very nasty fashion, over your damned tennis shoes.

 

So pick a noble cause. Give a meal to a homeless guy. Donate something you don't need to the Salvation Army. Open up a halfway house, or a home for retarded kids, if you're just hell-bent on helping someone out. Making attempts to destroy someones faith reveals not only a persons lack of respect, but also the incredible ammount of free time they have. And it helps no one, except you and your precious ego.

[Tyrion]

That's a matter of opinion. As a former atheist, I too used to try and be cool and say "how about this?" "how about that?". The list of holes in religious documentation goes on and on. I made my wife cry once just mentioning "where are dinosaurs in the bible?" My point, though it may not be deemed "valid" by you is this: Why do atheists care? Why not just be content with your smugness? I mean, according to faith and doctrine, Christians are required to try and convert people. But what, other than spite, drives the atheist? All I can come up with, is a need to look down at someone. A need to feel like everyone you don't agree with is a fool, and/or somehow less intelligent, and a need to point that out. And everytime I see something like this thread, I think that surely I'm not the only man to have ever had a faltering in my own faith. A moment where I said to myself "this is nonsense. How can any of this crap be true? How can I be expected to believe it?"

 

In a way, we're trying to do the same favor for you. You (well, the general christian really) spend at least three hours every week at a chruch spending time praying to your god. It would be essentially wasted if there was no god; you could use that time to instead spend time with your family, or work during those hours and perhaps donate the money earned to charity?

 

I don't need "a valid point" to ask my own questions. Or find my own answers. Or form my own opinions. I realize this is a public board, moreover, a public debating board. So things like this will come up. I just always wonder why these ultra-trendy-hipster-know it all-atheists give a rats ass what I believe? Yeah yeah yeah, I know. "well if not for religion, all the wars would never happen", and blah blah blah. Nonsense. I've heard that argument a dozen times over. If you honestly believe that if everyone in the world suddenly renounced God, or whoever they worship, that all of the worlds troubles would just *POOF* dissapear, you're a bigger fool than anyone you point down and laugh at from your Darwinian throne. You could be killed today, by someone very close to you, in a very nasty fashion, over your damned tennis shoes.

 

Religion was essential back before there were real capitalistic economies and democratic governments. In Egypt, the average citizen lived poorly in huts or sometimes small brick homes. The slaves were even worse. Now, what way could they give them hope, what way could they have held actual power over them? Saying that if they didn't work well, they could burn thier bodies and thier soul wouldn't go and live in the afterlife. Same with peasants in the middle ages; a good way to deal with them is to make them believe that if they do anything wrong, they will go to hell.

 

So pick a noble cause. Give a meal to a homeless guy. Donate something you don't need to the Salvation Army. Open up a halfway house, or a home for retarded kids, if you're just hell-bent on helping someone out. Making attempts to destroy someones faith reveals not only a persons lack of respect, but also the incredible ammount of free time they have. And it helps no one, except you and your precious ego.

 

Once I get a job, I plan on donating money to the Salvation Army. And what's with you and thinking we have big egos; I participate in the theological discussions as much as I participate in political discussion here. Unless political discussion just boosts my ego too; please tell that to everyone in congress if you do think that.

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by Tyrion

In a way, we're trying to do the same favor for you. You (well, the general christian really) spend at least three hours every week at a chruch spending time praying to your god. It would be essentially wasted if there was no god; you could use that time to instead spend time with your family, or work during those hours and perhaps donate the money earned to charity?

What "same favor" would that be? If you're implying that the purpose of this thread was to get Christians to donate money to charity, then I must get myself to a wash room to make sure I don't have the word DUMBASS tattooed across my forehead. The purpose of this thread is to shake peoples faith as far as I can tell. If you have a better excuse, I really want to hear it. And besides, everyone knows that the people wasting their time in church donate to charity all the time. Even if all they do is give money at collection time.

 

 

Originally posted by Tyrion

Religion was essential back before there were real capitalistic economies and democratic governments. In Egypt, the average citizen lived poorly in huts or sometimes small brick homes. The slaves were even worse. Now, what way could they give them hope, what way could they have held actual power over them? Saying that if they didn't work well, they could burn thier bodies and thier soul wouldn't go and live in the afterlife. Same with peasants in the middle ages; a good way to deal with them is to make them believe that if they do anything wrong, they will go to hell.

 

 

 

Once I get a job, I plan on donating money to the Salvation Army. And what's with you and thinking we have big egos; I participate in the theological discussions as much as I participate in political discussion here. Unless political discussion just boosts my ego too; please tell that to everyone in congress if you do think that.

 

Yeah, I'm on the phone with congress right now. I don't know if you suddenly lost your mind, or that was some silly ass attempt to be funny, but either way I can't make any sense out of it.

[Tyrion]

]What "same favor" would that be? If you're implying that the purpose of this thread was to get Christians to donate money to charity, then I must get myself to a wash room to make sure I don't have the word DUMBASS tattooed across my forehead. The purpose of this thread is to shake peoples faith as far as I can tell. If you have a better excuse, I really want to hear it. And besides, everyone knows that the people wasting their time in church donate to charity all the time. Even if all they do is give money at collection time.

 

Yeah, they do collect money too. But still, you spend alot of time in church just praying, which could be used for other things(like earning money to donate).

 

Yeah, I'm on the phone with congress right now. I don't know if you suddenly lost your mind, or that was some silly ass attempt to be funny, but either way I can't make any sense out of it.

 

What I meant was that I don't have a big ego trying to dissuade Christians, since I argue as much about Theological arguments with political ones(in other words, I'm not fixated on "breaking" Christian beliefs).

 

The whole point of this forum is to discuss these things, wether it's if the Bible is in of itself a contradiction, or if it's about guns are wrong. If you don't like it; leave. No one is forcing you to read this thread, heck you don't even need to go through these discussions to read the threads in the swamp.

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by Tyrion

The whole point of this forum is to discuss these things, wether it's if the Bible is in of itself a contradiction, or if it's about guns are wrong. If you don't like it; leave. No one is forcing you to read this thread, heck you don't even need to go through these discussions to read the threads in the swamp.

 

I thought that's what we were doing here. Discussing things. But now you're telling me I gotta leave? Maybe you need to haul ass. I never said I "don't like it" here. Or that anyone is "forcing" me to read this thread. In fact, I don't even know what brings that up. Are you angry at someone or something? And on what authority do you tell me to leave?