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Is there some new saber hack utility out or something?(Modder/Admin Alert!)


Lathain Valtiel

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No need to start flaming here guys.

 

[nWo] Filth since you've made it your purpose to be a troll since you signed up, consider this your warning!

 

 

Hopefully the mod makers and developers can work together on a solution to fix this.

 

If you must discuss the "secret commands" don't post them here, but relay via PM.

 

As was said, if these commands stayed secret this long, maybe a little discreteness can help prevent them becoming too popular until a solution is found.

 

It's odd that these commands are usable by non admins though...

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Well, good news and bad news:

 

JA Plus Mod 2.0 appears to block most or all of the debug moves, so kudos to slider. I guess it's a good thing his mod is so widespread, it will slow down spreading of the hacks.

 

The bad news is that if a server is running a mod that doesn't specifically block the debug moves, it is vulnerable. My disruption instagib server, which doesn't even have lightsabers, is vulnerable. I'll have to read the log later to see if they made lightsabers appear where there aren't supposed to be any, but they were talking on my other CTF server about how the hacks worked on my disruption server.

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Originally posted by [nWo] Filth

And btw. JKA MULTIPLAYER SUX!! DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT!!

 

...

 

Good for you. :indif:

 

Maybe if you were a bit more specific as to WHY you hate JA (other than "it sux"), I wouldn't give you such a hard time (as would many other forum members). I don't mind what people think as long as they give arguable and insightful reasons as to why they think that way.

 

But enough of getting off topic.

 

It's too bad that this is happening to JA. This is why game companies are reluctant to release a game's source code in the first place. Some smart@$$ always tries to find ways to wreck the game. Take Delta Force 2 for example. On the official servers, you have people flying and shooting off an unlimited supply of grenades at a ridiculously high rate of fire. What's worse, they move so erratically that it's well nigh impossible to kill them. It really ruins the game.

 

Hopefully it will never become that bad for JA. Still, it is worrisome.

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The debug moves problem is caused by the mod maker in question not building his .dll's properly. If you forget to make Final builds and instead make Debug builds, then all kinds of debug commands get left in - commands which are only meant to be avaliable duing test time and never were meant to end up on 'proper' servers :/

 

Sounds like certain mod makers realised this later rather than sooner - and hence their earlier releases were full of Debug stuff...

 

And unfortunately, I know of no way to disable any of these debug commands if Debug builds have been made. The developers would not have needed any way to disable these commands, since they were only 'suppost' to be avaliable for testing purposes in the first place...

 

So in short - players aren't doing anything clever to 'hack' these servers -they are taking advantage of a gaping wide hole of opportunity inadvertantly (but - gotta be said - noobishly) left open by the mod maker in question...

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My servers were running basejka_pushfix and disruption. The exploits continued under JAR 1.2 but are pretty much stopped under JA Plus 2.0. And Orion2486 says that JA Reloaded 1.4 will have those exploits blocked.

 

Are you saying that basejka_pushfix, disruption, and JAR 1.2 were not built as Final versions, and plain basejka should be OK because it isn't running a mod?

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If Xmod2 and OJP block them then I'm fine. I just don't want to be forced to use an ampunish friendly admin mod. ; p

 

But, interesting point if you say it's a MOD problem and not a basejka problem.

 

Pushfix is nice, but it only fixes one annoying bug, better to have that than to have exploits like this I guess.

 

Somebody should make a new linux compile that fixes that (if it's the case).

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Are you sure slider?

I thought I had heard that you could activate them on certain early versions of admin mods (And I was quite sure JA+ was specifically mentioned).

 

And if I'm reading what people are saying - it sounds like it's still going on, apperently with several mods - including your own...

 

If I'm wrong about this, I apologise. But that's what i'm getting from reading these posts...

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perhaps it was the case on the first version 1.0 or 1.1

but i corrected it very quickly

 

it makes a long time it is corrected

 

i just took a look on all the cmds that you can use in JA+

 

and absoluty are blocked

 

if you know a cmd that is not blocked tell me i will see if you are right

 

but i am nearly sure you are wrong

but perhaps i missed some debug cmds in all this code

 

so tell me the cmds?

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Slider,

 

This was my point though.

 

If you just make Final builds, you wouldn't have to try and find all these debug commands. They get taken out automatically

 

Try doing a quick search for:

 

#ifdef _DEBUG

 

See all that stuff coming up? THat's all the stuff your adding to your builds which shouldn't be there in the first place.

Not only are you adding commands and cvars which shouldn't be there, your also adding loads of unnessesary test code and debug trace stuff which will be eating up a few unnessesary cycles here and there (not much granted - but still, your mod is running slower as a result...)

 

You don't release debug builds man - seriously! Debug builds are for testing and (funnily enough) debugging - your not suppost to use them on 'real' servers. This is very basic stuff...

 

btw - the reason this didn't happen in JO is because we had the .qvm compiler avaliable. THis automatically makes 'release' builds, stripping out all the debug stuff.

(Or at least the default configuration of the .bat files used made release builds. Not sure if it's possible to set them up to make debug builds. But anyway - that's a side issue. THe point was it didn't take any brain power to make sure your compiling release builds in JO - whereas it does in JA. Well, not that much tbh. But you at least need to switch configs on your compiler...)

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hehe

i am not a novice

 

i already checked all of that

 

and all my version are relaeased in FINAL_BUILD

 

i was only saying that perghaps there are cmds that i didn't see and that are not in IFNDEF FINAL_BUILD block ir IDFED _DEGUG blocks

 

but i just took all the cmds one by one to be sure, and normally except if i missed some of them

all those cmds are not compiled in the mod

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and all my version are relaeased in FINAL_BUILD

 

OK - good.

...but you also removed the _DEBUG pre-processor define right?! If you didn't do that, your builds are still chock-full of debug code...

 

No-one has ever triggered a debug command in my mod - EVER. And I've never had to go hunting down these commands in code either.

You wanna know why? Because my mod doesn't have debug code in it...

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Ahh -I think I see your problem slider.

 

I've just downloaded v2.0_fixed of your mod, and the windows .dll looks to be the right size (Debug builds are a LOT bigger than Final builds - about twice the size)...

 

....but your linux .so file is way too big to not be a debug build.

It's nearly 2MB's!! It should actually be around half the size if it was a proper final build - 0.7 MB or so...

 

So looks like your windows build is ok, but your linux build is DEFINELTY debug.

 

Do you build the linux files yourself?

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no it is not debug

 

the _debug flag is not set

 

if it is debug it would spam the games.log with debug message

 

check it

and you will see

there is not _debug message

 

the flags used in windows version are the same as the flag in mu linux makefile execpt several differences due the difference betweend the 2 OS

 

i think the difference of sizze is due to the fact the instrution in linux OS is totally differenct from the windows one

 

i use the last versions of GCC and it compiles of the code for i586

 

if you think that the _degug code is compile in the linux version try to execute cmds that appear only in _degug blocks or find debug message in the games.log for example damage saber, or move trace debug.....

 

you will see they do not appear

 

perhaps if i had used ICC it would given the same size as in windows dll...

but i doubt of it because the official basejka linux .so file is about 2Mo and was compiled by raven itself

so it is the same size as mine

and they used ICC

so i don't really see the need of using ICC when you have a free programm as GCC

iCC is not free, and i have not money to spend in that

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i think the difference of sizze is due to the fact the instrution in linux OS is totally differenct from the windows one

 

Heh -whatever you say...

 

So you obviously think it's sheer co-incidence it's only certain mods that have (ever) had this problem then?!

 

 

Well - I tried guys. If you wanna keep using JA+, expect to find some more interesting little 'features' in the linux version...

 

...call it a hunch if you will ;)

 

..just out of pure morbid curiosity though - please mention one example of a debug command that Raven let 'slip' into their final builds which you have subsequently had to 'fix'...

 

[edit]

Obviously send in a PM rather than post in the open here...

[/edit]

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