Kerry's concession

[lukeiamyourdad]

China will surpass you soon enough. If it keeps going toward capitalism, it will easily kill US economy. They have a main market of over a billion people. The USA's 300 million can't compete.

 

Back on topic:

 

Interesting site originally posted elsewhere:

 

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

 

Average IQ of the state and who they voted for.

[kipperthefrog]

AMEN, Spider Al, Skinwalker, and Vagabond!

 

to see BU$H acting like a high school kid makes me VERY sad and concerned for our nation!

 

He's supposed to lead the FREE WORLD for crying out loud!

 

To see him goofing around like that shows he is NOT what he appears to BE!!!

 

It shows how the American public is DECIEVED! WE ARE DECIEVED! BU$H behaves like he has the IQ of an immature teenager and he has the nuclear button in his reach! HEAVEN HELP US!

 

He give tax breaks to the rich and help oil billionares make more money like the fate of working families don't matter!

 

then he passes the patriot act wich invades the privacy of people so the FBI can simply grab anyone and put him in jail without trial!

[kipperthefrog]

LukeImYourDad, those are interesting statisics!

 

It shows that the lower I Q people are decieved by the news and media!

 

 

 

"How fortunate for leaders that men dont think!"

 

-Adolf Hitler

 

 

Pretty scary huh?

[Samuel Dravis]

Originally posted by kipperthefrog

LukeImYourDad, those are interesting statisics!

 

It shows that the lower I Q people are decieved by the news and media!

That site doesn't tell you how they got their information or how many people actually took the test in the individual states. As such, I wouldn't class it as very reliable.

 

Bush flipping off the camera is not a problem with me. I can recognize that doing so was not meant to be an insult to anyone; rather, he was most likely releasing tension. I imagine that probably none of you have had to give a speech of such importance before, and are unlikely to have firsthand information on the subject. You don't inspire loyalty by being uttlerly serious and feeling 'dead' (socially) all the time, and it is slightly strange that you would expect that, given the tone of Bush's campaign.

 

Morally, the act is not at issue. He was just having some fun with friends and coworkers, and not 'aiming' it at anyone - which would be either a very, very slightly immoral or not at all.

 

You know, I am tired of this. It's over. There's just no point in discussing it into the ground, except to perhaps make yourselves feel better. I have much more respect for Kerry than I did before, simply because he was able to take being defeated well, and with dignity. That alone. If I had agreed with his stance on issues, I would have supported him. Even with Bush I only agreed with him about half the time - had Kerry been the same, I might have gone with him.

 

Saying that people who are religious are by default generally 'stupid' or have low IQs is a mistake. Indeed, partisans saying the exact same things put me off Kerry's side in the first place.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I never claimed the site to be reliable though I wouldn't be amazed if the stats were similar.

[ET Warrior]

I dont recall anyone saying that religious people are stupid.

 

rather, he was most likely releasing tension. I imagine that probably none of you have had to give a speech of such importance before, and are unlikely to have firsthand information on the subject.

I also imagine that probably none of us were ever president of the United States. THAT is the POINT. When he's in the public eye (which is almost always) he needs to be conducting himself in a way so as to present himself as dignified as possible. We elected him to lead our COUNTRY.

 

And that's a stupid way to releive tension, and if he were a half-decent public speaker there wouldn't BE any tension.

 

I've given plenty of speeches in my day, to some pretty large crowds and I didn't have to flip off my friends to calm me down before hand.

 

 

 

Edit - here's a website that posts average IQ in the states based on ACT and SAT scores.

http://www.sq.4mg.com/stateIQ-income.htm

 

This is admittedly out of date since it came out ~2001 but it's probably pretty close.

[MennoniteHobbit]

Originally posted by kipperthefrog

-CLICKY-

 

I question the reliability of that source; it's very easy to video edit anyway.

 

people don't KNOW that becuase the news just show our army and the iraqis tearing down the Saddam statue! the didn't show them leaving a weopons area unguarded to protect an oil field! the news decieved the public! the public lets the media form their opinions! people are being brainwashed!

 

Oh really? So you're saying the media only shows the positives of Iraq? HA! It's totally the opposite. The media has shown many clips and footage of the bad things that have happened in Iraq. (Why don't you all use your beloved Fahrenheit 9/11 as a source of Iraq being bombed and people running away in fear since you love referencing it anyway? Not aimed at any particular people.) And clips of leaving weapons fields unguarded? Wait a minute, suddenly all of media can have access to these places and film all of this around military installations? And the lack of it indicates the media is deceiving everyone?

 

how do we KNOW if WE are REALY the "good guys"???

 

Hey, if you have any doubts, feel free to move to another country where you think it has a possibility of being "the real good guys." I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

 

One thing this election has proven is that there is a little over half of the American public that is influenced by superstition and belief rather than logic and reason. This is why we have a workforce that is technically and scientifically deficient and why high school kids in the U.S. place below the rest of the Western (and much of the Eastern) world in Science. The general ignorance of the American populace will lead to its downfall if not checked. The European Union will surpass us as the world leader, as may Japan and even China.

 

So voting for Bush is out of arrogance and ignorance? That solely depends on what beliefs you have and your stance on various issues (not to mention what angle the media you are exposed to).

 

You guys are making far too big of a deal out of this. You'll find any reason to bash the man. If Clinton did it, nobody would say a word.

 

Nobody would say I word that they agree with you on that statement.

 

Do you think bush CAN unite the nation at all?

 

Pres. Bush attempting to unite the nation can only be achieved by him AND everyone else. He can't unite the nation if you guys don't want to be united. It can't be accomplished by only Pres. Bush.

 

You know, I am tired of this. It's over.

 

Yes. I'm tired of all this liberal ranting and "oh I agree, nice way of mixing 'facts' with humor; oh great job you!; I couldn't agree more! People are so stupid for not agreeing with my belief system!"

 

Goodbye.

 

p.s. Kudos to Hiroki for managing to stay in this topic (either presently or used to). I salute you.

[kipperthefrog]

Morally, the act is not at issue. He was just having some fun with friends and coworkers, and not 'aiming' it at anyone - which would be either a very, very slightly immoral or not at all.

 

You'd think a guy who has the power to nuke a planet and is responsible for the "war on terror" and the "liberation of Iraq" would take his job more seriusly...

 

..rather than do obscene hand gestures at the camera!

 

...and everyone laughs with him? Those white house jobs must not keep them very busy...

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit

Hey, if you have any doubts, feel free to move to another country where you think it has a possibility of being "the real good guys." I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

 

I'm sick of the France bashing. Sorry for the flaming, but how republicans and warmongers bashed France for being against the war just shows their level of intelligence.

[kipperthefrog]

originally posted by menonitehobbit

 

I question the reliability of that source; it's very easy to video edit anyway.

 

do a search and see all the different SIZES of it!

 

going by THAT logic, ANYTHING could be fake! How do you know it realy WAS Bin Laden who masterminded 9-11? How do you know the Bin Laden tapes were real?

 

Hey, if you have any doubts, feel free to move to another country where you think it has a possibility of being "the real good guys." I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

 

Have YOU been to france and asked them what they thought about bu$h?

[Samuel Dravis]

Originally posted by kipperthefrog

You'd think a guy who has the power to nuke a planet and is responsible for the "war on terror" and the "liberation of Iraq" would take his job more seriusly...

Actually, he does not have the sole power to do so. Other people have to agree with his decision. He can't just push a button and nuke whomever he wants to. I wish you'd stop saying that.

..rather than do obscene hand gestures at the camera!

 

...and everyone laughs with him? Those white house jobs must not keep them very busy...

My previous post answers the top.

 

Everyone laughing with him? Who knows? They might have even thought it was funny. Do you know they had better things to do? Might they be able to laugh while they're doing their jobs? I'll leave this one to you.

 

EDIT: Video can be resized so easily it's rediculous to say that proves its validity. Personally, I think it is real, but I don't know for sure.

[kipperthefrog]

One more thing:

 

right before election day, bin laden sent another tape! "don't vote for bu$h" was the message! Reverse psicoligy for the public! nobody will do what the enemy wants! people will say "bin laden dosnt want us to vote for bu$h so by golly IM VOTING FOR BU$H!"

 

How do we know ANYTHING is on TV is real news?

 

for all we know, Bin Laden could have been a patsy like Lee Harvey Olswald was in the Kenedy Episode!

[Hiroki]

Man, if you go away for a few hours you get left behind.

 

Spider, yeah, Clinton should have been sacked...but he wasn't.

 

And Skinwalker, since it has increased your regard for him, I suppose you realize that everybody is putting too much into that? If you want reasons to hate Bush, then hate him for some of the stuff he has ****ed up in his first term, but not over something so trivial and silly. That is my point.

 

I am not bias. As a person, I like Kerry. I felt sorry for him when he lost, because I think he really did care for the American people, and you could tell that in his speech. I just don't think he would have been a good president for America. He changed his stances too often, and you didn't really know what you where getting.

 

Kipperthefrog...calm down man, geez...really.

[ronbrothers]

The funny thing is, none of you have noticed that that is not a clip of him as president. He was governor of Texas at the time. It doesn't add to the debate, except to show just how anxious some liberals are to hypocritically bash someone for being human.

 

It reminds me of what some over anxious conservatives tried to do with the clip of Edwards adjusting his hair. It was foolish to even comment on it.

 

The point is that everyone is allowed a private moment. He obviously was in the presence of familiar persons such as aids or even possibly a film crew that he was on personal terms with.

 

Based on some of the arguments presented here, it would lead one to believe that he is not even allowed to raise his voice as a parent or have an argument with his wife over something trivial.

 

He's human. Just like all of us.

 

A leader is a member of society that is chosen by fellow members of that society. He's not a conquorer or someone ordained by God. He is a human being. And I'm glad he sees it that way as well.

 

Besides, I thought this was a debate about Kerry's concession speech.

[Samuel Dravis]

Originally posted by ronbrothers

The funny thing is, none of you have noticed that that is not a clip of him as president. He was governor of Texas at the time. It doesn't add to the debate, except to show just how anxious some liberals are to hypocritically bash someone for being human.

 

It reminds me of what some over anxious conservatives tried to do with the clip of Edwards adjusting his hair. It was foolish to even comment on it.

 

The point is that everyone is allowed a private moment. He obviously was in the presence of familiar persons such as aids or even possibly a film crew that he was on personal terms with.

 

Based on some of the arguments presented here, it would lead one to believe that he is not even allowed to raise his voice as a parent or have an argument with his wife over something trivial.

 

He's human. Just like all of us.

 

A leader is a member of society that is chosen by fellow members of that society. He's not a conquorer or someone ordained by God. He is a human being. And I'm glad he sees it that way as well.

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit

... I bet France is accepting anti-Bush people.

 

A statement indicative of the true ignorance of a little over half of the United States. It suggests that France, alone, opposed the Iraqi invasion in the U.N. It also suggests that there is something inherently wrong with France. The same ignorance gave rise to the "freedom fries" name change. "Ignorant" because France has always thought American "french" fries was an insult to good food to begin with. If you've ever eaten European potato varients, you'd understand.

 

I stand by my statement. A little over half of the United States populace has proven itself to be ignorant and uneducated. Not just through the 2004 election, but collectively over the course of this new millenium.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Hiroki

And Skinwalker, since it has increased your regard for him, I suppose you realize that everybody is putting too much into that?

 

Agreed. I think people make too much of it. It's clear he was horsing around. And, if as Ronbrothers points out, it was prior to his Presidency, then it's even less of an issue.

 

Just out of curiosity, how can you tell?

[ronbrothers]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Just out of curiosity, how can you tell?

 

I've seen quite a few photos of him prior to his first term as president including some made when his father was running. It's only opinion, but it looks to be either earlier in his term as governor or when he was running for that office. Look at his hair and eyebrows. There appears to be less age in his face when he smiles.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Hiroki

Just because he has "more power" doesn't mean he has to be perfect.

actually it pretty much does. Well not perfect, but damn near perfect, he holds the lives of millions of people in his hand. His actions could effect everyone and everything. He has to be more responsible and intelligent than the average joe, that's why we elect the people as our ****ing leader, because they're more responsible and intelligent and capable of holding the lives of others in their hand.

[ronbrothers]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

actually it pretty much does. Well not perfect, but damn near perfect, he holds the lives of millions of people in his hand. His actions could effect everyone and everything. He has to be more responsible and intelligent than the average joe, that's why we elect the people as our ****ing leader, because they're more responsible and intelligent and capable of holding the lives of others in their hand.

 

I really don't think that with in your heart of hearts you really believe what you were saying. The idea that a human being is expected to be "perfect" or "damn near perfect" doesn't reflect real life. If this conversation did not involve politics, the idea that a human being is expected to be such in anything is ridiculous.

 

To use an old saying, the only person that was perfect was Jesus Christ, and even then not everyone liked him.

 

BTW, I like your Episode III signature banner.

[Spider AL]

I really don't think that with in your heart of hearts you really believe what you were saying. The idea that a human being is expected to be "perfect" or "damn near perfect" doesn't reflect real life. If this conversation did not involve politics, the idea that a human being is expected to be such in anything is ridiculous.

Sorry, but that's rubbish. We elect people to office on the basis of their skills in different political areas. Before electing someone to the most demanding, most powerful office in the land one must evaluate their intelligence, oration, strategic ability, economic savvy,... And one must select the most perfect man for the job.

 

It is apparent however that the people you're trying to defend in some way, elected Bush on the basis that he was like their goofy uncle Billy-Bob. So at least they knew what they were getting.

 

Knew what they were getting? Yeah, they knew what they were getting. A man that has assisted the US economy into the toilet and started a completely pointless war in Iraq.

 

The funny thing is, none of you have noticed that that is not a clip of him as president.

FYI the fact that he was governer at the time was on the news page I downloaded the .mov from. Don't assume. Assume makes an ass of "u" and me.

[ronbrothers]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Sorry, but that's rubbish. We elect people to office on the basis of their skills in different political areas. Before electing someone to the most demanding, most powerful office in the land one must evaluate their intelligence, oration, strategic ability, economic savvy,... And one must select the most perfect man for the job.

 

You are right except for the use of most perfect. We elect the candidate that exhibits the highest skills in the ares that you mentioned. Perhaps the better of the candidates is the best way to articulate what you are trying to say. Perfect is impossible.

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

It is apparent however that the people you're trying to defend in some way, elected Bush on the basis that he was like their goofy uncle Billy-Bob. So at least they knew what they were getting.

 

That statement is typical of what is wrong with the political debate lately. It succeeds in assaulting the voter as well as the candidate. I don't want to resurrect an old liberal term, but it is hate-filled and mean spirited. It has nothing to do with political views.

[stingerhs]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

So you wouldn't find it hypocritical for your pastor to flip off his neighbor and then tell YOU to love your neighbor?

 

 

Yours and my definition of hypocracy must be out of synch.

we are indeed completely out of sync. you see, according to the bible, God looks at a man's heart (or the spirit man), and not the flesh. whenever you flip the bird at someone, you are acting out of your flesh. i act out of my flesh everyday, and so does my pastor. why?? because we are human. we are fallible.

 

also don't forget that God doesn't judge every sin by its "severity". only men do that. with God, sin is sin, whether it be flipping the bird or murder. and also realize that God's grace is sufficient for everything. it does not mean that you won't take the results of your actions. it only means that God forgives you.

 

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God. in my eyes, it would only prove that he is indeed a fallible man, just as we all are.

 

note: all of my views are founded firmly in the Bible. don't believe me, then check it for yourself.

 

to answer the thing on bush: grow up. so he flipped someone off. big deal. next thing ya know, y'all will be dissing him for saying that he hates liberals.

[ronbrothers]

Originally posted by stingerhs

we are indeed completely out of sync. you see, according to the bible, God looks at a man's heart (or the spirit man), and not the flesh. whenever you flip the bird at someone, you are acting out of your flesh. i act out of my flesh everyday, and so does my pastor. why?? because we are human. we are fallible.

 

also don't forget that God doesn't judge every sin by its "severity". only men do that. with God, sin is sin, whether it be flipping the bird or murder. and also realize that God's grace is sufficient for everything. it does not mean that you won't take the results of your actions. it only means that God forgives you.

 

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God. in my eyes, it would only prove that he is indeed a fallible man, just as we all are.

 

note: all of my views are founded firmly in the Bible. don't believe me, then check it for yourself.

 

to answer the thing on bush: grow up. so he flipped someone off. big deal. next thing ya know, y'all will be dissing him for saying that he hates liberals.

 

Very well said, stingerhs.

[Spider AL]

You are right except for the use of most perfect. We elect the candidate that exhibits the highest skills in the ares that you mentioned. Perhaps the better of the candidates is the best way to articulate what you are trying to say. Perfect is impossible.

Don't try and argue semantics with me, cully. The term "perfect" can be qualified, it is not an absolute in the context you're referring to. Your reasoning is flawed.

 

And since that's the only argument you can come up with, I declare the case that rationally, Kerry superceded Bush in desirability for the post of Command-in-Chief, to be proven.

 

That statement is typical of what is wrong with the political debate lately. It succeeds in assaulting the voter as well as the candidate. I don't want to resurrect an old liberal term, but it is hate-filled and mean spirited. It has nothing to do with political views.

I'm no liberal, so I'm quite open about the fact that I literally hate the neo-conservative ideal, and consider it to be nazism at its most insidious. I hate ignorance, and I hate the effect ignorance has on our world.

 

I will quite openly insult any voter who has all the evidence in the world in front of them, but ignores it. It is less than they deserve. I decry that portion of the electorate that chose Bush over Kerry, may their ears be infested with leeches.

 

if my pastor did actually flip the bird, more than likely, it would severely discredit his integrity as a man after God.

Exactly. Glad you agree with us.