CapNColostomy Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk CapNColostomy actaully DOES have the right idea about Biblical God. THe God of the New Testament has just as much capacity for being vengeful, jealous and wrathful as the Old Testament God - because God is God, no matter what human time period your referencing.. ...take this from people who have actually read it. Cover to cover. Actually, I prefer that concept of God to the grampa bearded softy everyone here seems to know so much about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Actually, I prefer that concept of God to the grampa bearded softy everyone here seems to know so much about. Well, takes all kinds of course. Can't say I agree with your taste in deity's... ..but at least we both acknowledge what Biblical God is actually like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Skin: Also, duel income families are more likely to invest their money. In addition, the stability of duel income/duel parent households is an advantage to raising children. Such advantages make it more likely for children to complete high school, continue to college, etc. College educated people have better advantages in job hunting.....These reasons you've listed merely highlight the inequality in our society facing single-parent children and their single-parents, and other unorthodox family units. Adding more types of married couples to the pile of people who are given financial assistance by the government for no apparent reason, is no solution. Abolish the lot. That'll sort it out. RenegadeOfPhunk: ..if your gonna accuse me of 'indoctrination' , the least you can do is be clear on what my supposed 'indoctrination' is actually saying...You initially said in the previous thread that you were referring to, that the core principles of Christianity directly result in evil, implying that the Christian faith in its entirety is inherently evil. This is obviously a dogmatic and incorrect blanket statement that you may or may not have been indoctrinated to believe. I will make it very clear that the Bible contains many good principles as well as some bad ones. You initially said that the core principles of Christianity directly result in evil. This has been proven to be untrue, as God never instructed his people to perform any of the evil acts that the Christian church and its members have committed post-bible. The core principles of the christian church are the ten commandments in the old testament and Jesus' teachings in the new. These are specific instructions from "God" telling people how to live in all time-periods. Now you try to backpedal frantically by using fuzzy terminology. It won't work. Everyone knows what you said, what thread you said it in and how well your argument has been scotched. QED. ..so how I'm making anybody ignore the good things Who said anything about you MAKING anyone do anything? I'd prefer it if you'd reply to my posts rather than the ones in your head. ...well, I give up trying to understand why you pin any of this outlandish stuff on me reallyGive it up, none of these unfounded and irrelevant statements are distracting me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Well, even if God does have his wrathful, vengeful, and jealous sides ( We have them, and we are made in his image, so why not? ), he controls them allot better than we do, obviously. If not, we'd all be dead. How much could any of us take before we would one day snap and annihilate the world? *shrugs* But I'm sure God has his warm cuddly grandpa side too. Edit: Oh, and don't worry about the face CapN, I'm sure he didn't mean anything by it. Those things are just so damn addictive... :dozey: :dozey: Ahh, that's the stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Who said anything about you MAKING anyone do anything? Sheesh. You did. In this very thread. Guess I'll have to remind you of your own words (again): You said: but I'll also fight against trendy-lefty indoctrination that makes people ignore the GOOD things in Christianity and other religions, and label them incorrectly You stated that I am trying to push an opinion which makes people ignore the good in Christianity. Those are YOUR words. ...let me guess what your gonna say next - 'I was talking about you! When I said it makes 'people' do blah blah, I was refering to you'. ...ok, well it doesn't make sense when compared with your later statement: that you may or may not have been indoctrinated to believe. So let me get this straight. I ws made to ignore the good in Christianity by being indocrtrinated, and yet I may or may not have been indoctrinated?! ...I mean, have you actually read back one of your own posts. It doesn't make any sense, no matter which way you look at it. ...I try and give you the benefit of the doubt, but no - the nonsense-meter still jumps straight into the red - every bloody time. And besides all this, how can I have been indoctrinated with a belief that I do even not beleive in the first place?!! Skin, how much longer is this farce suppost to go on? Cos considering how far Al is willing to go to simply make up my own statements, I think I'm showing quite a bit of restraint right now. Please, this needs moderating. It's just not right... ..I'll happily debate with anybody who doesn't agree with me. But changing my argument for me?! It's just plain pathetic... I'd prefer it if you'd reply to my posts rather than the ones in your head Heh, nice try at throwing my own comments directed at you back at me Planning to come up with anything of your own soon? implying that the Christian faith in its entirety is inherently evil. ...read your own words... ...implying... ...i.e. your - again - making my words up for me. I never said anything about the Christian faith being 'evil in it's entirety...'. You know this very well, because your using the word 'implied' i.e. I said it without actually saying it. Statement 1: Certain established Christian beliefs and attitudes (clearly denoted in the Bible) can be clearly linked to immoral behaviour... Statment 2: The entire Christian faith is inherently evil. Two different arguments. Totally. Statment 1 repesents MY argument from the start. Statement 2 represents YOUR make-believe argument you've created for me on my behalf. Thanks but no thanks. You can choose to imply one means the other, but just because you say so, doesn't make it so I'm afraid. I clearly stated that Christianity is based on both good and bad concepts. Right ... from ... the .. beginning. Please read my posts. If you want to disagree with that point of view, be my bloody guest! I don't give a s**t. But at least ahve the common, basic, human decency of allowing ME to make my OWN argument! ...you can't win debates by simply making up your opposites opinion like your doing right now. You've certainly scortched an argument alright -I'll give you that. The only minor detail is that the argument you've scortched doesn't even belong to me!! ...maybe I just need to repeat it loads of times so it finally sinks in... Good and bad Good AND bad Good ...and ... bad ..ok - I think that should be enough for even the most hard-of-reading on this board... You initially said that the core principles of Christianity directly result in evil. No. No. No. You've missed out the word SOME. s .... o ... m ... e. Not all, some. Not most, some. Read my posts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 You stated that I am trying to push an opinion which makes people ignore the good in Christianity. Those are YOUR words.lol. This merely shows your comprehension up. I said that I fight against trendy-lefty indoctrination, and in the context of the message it was obvious that I was fighting against YOUR indoctrination, the indoctrination OF YOU. I didn't say you were trying to indoctrinate anyone else, though your misguided messages will probably have that effect upon some impressionable youths. So you see, I'm doing this for your own good. Heh, nice try at throwing my own comments directed at you back at meI wouldn't lower myself, frankly. ...implying... ...i.e. your - again - making my words up for me. Ha! It's not my inference so much as your obvious implication. Don't try to blame me for your failings. I never said anything about the Christian faith being 'evil in it's entirety...You stated that the core principles of christianity result directly in evil. If that doesn't imply that the very fabric, the very basis of all christianity is evil, I don't know what does. Of course, you know it to be true, but you're caught in the web of your own illogic, and you're backpedalling frantically. But the bonds ever tighten. Wahahhr. No. No. No. You've missed out the word SOME.The specific quantity of core principles you believe are tainted, is irrelevant. You claimed that they encouraged evil acts directly AND NONE OF THE CORE PRINCIPLES DO. So you're wrong, and wrong thrice more. Accept it, make it easy on yourself. ..I'll happily debate with anybody who doesn't agree with me. But changing my argument for me?! It's just plain pathetic...If you wanted to unjustly insult my arguments to a moderator, a private message would have been better. I can only assume you want to massage your ego in public. Who knows why? It does you no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 ...it was obvious that I was fighting against YOUR indoctrination, the indoctrination OF YOU. Ermm, no - not obvious, as I made clear in my previous post. Check another of your statements regarding my opinion... you may or may not have been indoctrinated to believe. So your fighting indocrination I may not have even been indocrinated with? ...and which I don't even believe in the first place?! ...again - no way to look at it and make sense out of it. Fight whatever you like. Even imaginary arguments if you must. ..but don't constantly mis-represent me with every post you make. Once you've got the common decency to manage that, then we can start debating the actual points... ...the truth of the matter is actually opposite to what you incinuate. (surprise surprise). I was raised as a Christian. If I was 'indoctrinated' with anything, it was that the Bible is pure goodness, without question - from cover to cover... This is a common misconception, as you should well know, as you hold (or at least held - not too long ago) the same view... ..so who's indoctrinated again? Being raised a Christian did have one distinct advantage though - I did actually bother reading the whole Bible before making judgements on it's moral content. Funnily enough, it does help... The specific quantity of core principles you believe are tainted, is irrelevant. Err - no it's not irrelavent in the slightest, because that has been the whole point of the last round of posts where you have been telling me my own position, when in fact you've been making up your own position, and calling it mine. There are good principles in the Bible which can be directly linked to good behaviour. There are also bad princpiles in the Bible which can be directly linked to bad behaviour. These kinds of statements (the kinds of statements I've been making all along in this debate) in no way imply, insinuate or lead to the conclusion that I beleive that Christianity is 'inherently evil', whilst 'ignor[ing] the GOOD things in Christianity -and other religions'. ...if you continue to push this, I DO expect Skin to step in. The misrepresentation here is just that obnoxious and blatent... Right now, this is not about whether you agree or disagree with those statements (we'll get to that when you've learned to actually debate issues without constant mis-representation), or what you personally beleive are the 'core' principles of Christianity. (Divine retribution is perfectly core to the whole concept of Christianity. This is simply fact - as has been made clear by OTHER CHRISTIANS on this very board OVER and OVER and OVER again... ...so you'll exuse me if I don't roll over and take your opinion on this as - heh - 'gospel' and continue to debate it You may want to only read certain pages of the Bible and rip out the rest, but I'm looking for a clearer view than that - thanks all the same...) ...this is about what MY argument actually IS. You can't possibly argue against me until you acknowledge my actual argument Argue against it - fine. Don't argue against it - fine again. ..but blatently change my argument? Why do you have to stoop so low? ..and no, putting QED at the end of statements doesn't actually make them true. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it only means you have the minimum intelligence required to type the letters Q - E - D. I'm sure that's a praise-worthy achievement in your world and all - perhaps commendable for a genuis chimp - but not overly impressive to the rest of us tbh.... Here, you might not follow my reasoning, so here's a helpful example: The moon is made of cheese Quod Erat Demonstrandum Nope. No more true because some extra letters were added to the end... But keep trying though - maybe you'll come up with arguments that can stand on more than 3 letters soon! ...wow - imagine that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy Homosexuality: a tool of war? And here I was thinking it was a way to have sex with someone that has the same equipment. Anyhow, I was just wondering how it is that gay people not being granted marriage or union, or being otherwise treated unfairly is comparible to the "wiping out" of "romans and indians." Even if the election this year was dominated by the religious right anti gay vote, I think there might be some degree of public outcry if we started shuttling gay folks off to reservations but only after we've killed and raped most of them and stolen their land. Or got them drunk and bought it really cheap. Whichever. The second thing I'd like to mention, is how much it ammuses me to see how uninformed all of you Christian bashers are. Every time it seems like you're about to make a good point, you throw in something along the lines of "oh but wait, isn't this supposed to be the same mercyful, forgiving, blah blah blah bearded grandfatherly nice guy god blah blah blah, well if that's true, then what about blah blah blah?!?!" Nobody ever mentions any of the other words used to describe him. Such as VENGEFUL, WRATHFUL, JEALOUS. That's just an observation I've made that I find ammusing. Otherwise, most of the time, if I didn't know any better, I'd agree with you. I only used the comparisons between the Roman/Indians and homosexuals today to represent the Christian influence/rule/whatever word you want to choose. In regard to the 2nd portion of your comment: you're partly right. I've barely read the Bible. However, countless Christians have told me of all this stuff about God being so forgiving and such. Where else to get it but straight from the horse's mouth? From all I've heard of God yeah, he is vengeful wrathful and jealous, but Christians seem to leave that out. So I'll give them that. Nice to have you join this debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Do you know how many times someone has acted like they knew thing one about the Bible, and I've corrected them, only to hear a response along the lines of "well, that's what Christians tell me"?!?!?! Okay fine. That's what Christians tell you. But tell me this, Mr. Wizard. Why is it you apply so much "science" and "logic" and whatever else pseudo-wisdom-words you can conjure up, to everything that comes your way, yet you're willing to believe something a "Christian" tells you, and furthermore, something you claim not to believe in the first place? You think people that believe in God are fulla ****, but you believe something you heard from some guy in a gay bar, or here, or in your dorm, etc...???? As much as you anti religious types will hate to hear this, you're full of ****, and more than half the time, even more hypocritical than the religious people you loathe so ****ing much. If you're going to say you don't believe, fine. But please, for the sake of your own credibilty if nothing else, stop saying "well, that's what Christians tell me." If you believe the things they tell you, but still choose not to believe in God, not only are you making your arguments pointless, you're making quite the ass of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hey there tiger slow down eh. I've never claimed that religious types are full of ****, nor denied that indeed, some anti-religious people are full of ****. All I've said is that from my experience with Christians, i.e., sermons and whatnot, that's all I've heard. I'm not anti-religion either. I had very much wanted to be a Christian a year ago, but now I'm just lost in the whole scheme of things... eh... maybe I'll start up religion 2 years before I'm in the grave. Call me an agnost if you wish but I'd like very much to believe in God. It's just very difficult to believe in something that requires such blind faith. Christianity as a whole, so much as I've seen of it, is very aggressive in its "morals" and very aggressive in forcing these "morals" down the throats of other people. I had a strong feeling that sort of reply would come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 wow, CapNColostomy must have slept very well the last err.. years.. ^^; the point you're making is somehow valid, on the other hand, if i would ask a christian to tell me about "his" god, and he tells me he a nice-person-and-all-that god, why shouldnt i think that's actually how he sees his god. just because i listened to his stuff doesnt mean i believe nor accept it as my truth. AND if god is described otherwise, like you like to point out, why shouldnt i ask, WHY is there a different picture in that believers mind? and why shouldnt i ask it in a way like "hey, i met ths believer ('christian') and he told me blahblahabibi." they might not be "true" believers in your eyes though, but they see themselfes as such. everyone wants to be THE true believer, but they can't come down to one point. crap a la card. and seriously, i couldnt care less what people think "god" is like, so i wouldnt ask anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 RenegadeOfPhunk, your PM box is full. This message will be deleted in a few day (it's SPAM), but let me take this opportunity to interject something off-topic but necessary: PM BOX FULL is often the result of messages you can't see not being deleted. Most members probably delete stuff from their in-box as they come in or soon after. Some probably forget that the box only shows a limited view, you have to click on "last 30 days, last 100 days," etc. Also, it is often the case that the Sent Items folder is ignored. This one can fill up quick if you are active with PMs and sneak up on you after a bout a year or so if not. Check your Sent Items! Delete them! [/end public service announcement] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Where did the discussion about homosexuality go ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 [ Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad Where did the discussion about homosexuality go ? Eh? Oh...it disappeared and was replaced by relegion vs Anti Religion, like so many threads here tend to do... Homosexuals...yeah, boy, how about them Homosexuals... *shrugs* Ah, I got nuthin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 As the supposed reason of this debate over homosexuality lies in religion... I can see why omg Skin spammed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by Hiroki Homosexuals...yeah, boy, how about them Homosexuals... I believe this is the smilie you wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 RenegadeOfPhunk: Ermm, no - not obviousMaybe not obvious to you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't obvious. You seem to lack the ability to self-analyse, and always presume that others are in the wrong despite your own failings. This attitude does not assist one in a search for the facts. If you're only interested in banter, a debate is not the place for you. So your fighting indocrination I may not have even been indocrinated with? ...and which I don't even believe in the first place?!The qualification was necessary because there's a slim possibility that you've come by your erroneous belief that the core principles of christianity directly cause evil, all by yourself. But frankly, you bear all the hallmarks of rabid lefty conditioning. ...the truth of the matter is actually opposite to what you incinuate. (surprise surprise). I was raised as a Christian. If I was 'indoctrinated' with anything, it was that the Bible is pure goodness, without question - from cover to cover...Many of us were raised in religious atmospheres. Sometimes as a form of adolescent rebellion, people who are raised in Christian environments end up unjustly hating Christianity not merely as the flawed group of people that it undoubtedly is- but as a set of principles, when none of the core principles of christianity can be called amoral, which is what you think according to your previous posts. So is this what happened to you? Also it's worth noting that being indoctrinated to believe one thing above all others in youth, might well make you more susceptible to indoctrination of other sorts in later life. Err - no it's not irrelavent in the slightest, Yes it is. It wouldn't matter if you said "one core principle is amoral" or "all core principles are amoral" because NONE of them are amoral, so you're just as wrong either way. The ten commandments, the teachings of christ, neither are amoral. ...if you continue to push this, I DO expect Skin to step in. The misrepresentation here is just that obnoxious and blatent...Skin will no doubt make his own judgement based on the forum rules and his own concience. Hope for everything, but expect nothing, that's my motto. These kinds of statements (the kinds of statements I've been making all along in this debate) in no way imply, insinuate or lead to the conclusion that I beleive that Christianity is 'inherently evil', whilst 'ignor[ing] the GOOD things in Christianity -and other religions'.If you believe the core principles of any life-philosophy, be it science, christianity or islam, are evil, then it follows that everything that results from those principles will be tainted with evil. If one of the core principles of Christianity was "All of my flock must kill at least two rodents a day in the most painful manner possible" then it would naturally be amoral, tainting the whole religion. If you genuinely believe what you have previously said: that the core principles of christianity are tainted and cause evil directly, then what follows is unavoidable, though you may deny it all you wish. As for ignoring, yes you are. You're ignoring the fact that the core principles of Christianity, the literal instructions, are not evil in the slightest. Only individual people taint the Christian message for their own purposes. So as a group of people, yes, Christianity could be regarded as evil. But as a set of principles, no. ..and no, putting QED at the end of statements doesn't actually make them true. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it only means you have the minimum intelligence required to type the letters Q - E - D. I'm sure that's a praise-worthy achievement in your world and all - perhaps commendable for a genuis chimp - but not overly impressive to the rest of us tbh.... How very insulting you are, albeit not in a forthright, honest way. If you really want to call me "chimp" and accuse me of having minimum intelligence, do it in a PM "to my face." Enough implication from you. QED merely means "that which was to be proven" and one uses it as a suffix when one has presented irrefutable evidence to support one's position. Such is the situation in which I use it, and no other. Frankly I can't see what logical objection you could have. maybe you'll come up with arguments that can stand on more than 3 letters soon! ...wow - imagine that! You are guilty of hypocrisy. You accuse me of having no valid arguments, yet spend your posts sidestepping, backpedalling and dodging all questions and arguments put to you. You reply directly to nothing, and have no evidence to support your claims. Your entire argument seems to hinge upon obtuseness, deliberately ignoring the content of my posts, and making vague personal attacks. I'm going to have to declare myself winner by default unless you shape up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 YOU know the REAL reason dinosuars became EXTINT? The GAY disaster killed them! The dinosuars ALL turned GAY and paired off! They never had babies again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog YOU know the REAL reason dinosuars became EXTINT? The GAY disaster killed them! The dinosuars ALL turned GAY and paired off! They never had babies again! Not sure if I should be offended or confused - so I'll just go play Halo or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by Kain Not sure if I should be offended or confused - so I'll just go play Halo or something... Kinda funny you mentioned Halo. You belong to a group named Spartans, right? And Spartans in history were ultra-masculine warriors who practiced homosexuality. So, the more you play Halo the more homoseuxal tendances start to surface in you. The more homosexual tendances that start to surface, the more you'll talk about and eventually be a homosexuality. Hence, I've gone completely off-topic but I have proved without a doubt that Kain is becoming a homosexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Dude, I don't even care what ANYONE says - Johnny Depp is HOT...and so is RVD...and Jeff Hardy...and lest we forget the Undertaker; in a dead creepy kind of way:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Kinda funny you mentioned Halo. You belong to a group named Spartans, right? And Spartans in history were ultra-masculine warriors who practiced homosexuality. Every nationality practices homosexuality. Do you mean that they were mature enough to actually legalize and tolerate it? Where did the discussion about homosexuality go ? This thread is going way off-topic, like all threads around here seems to -from politics to religion... It's sad how people can't stay on topic. And yes, it's scary that so many people in the States care more about prosecuting a minority group than caring for themselves. "Screw the problems, we've got a once-in-a-life chance here! We get to go a-gay hunting!" Oh? And what would you know of "True Christianity"? Lets hear what you have to say, since you are such a Holy Man. Christian=follower of God, Jesus, The Holy Ghost, or a combination of the three. Regardless of what he does. I wish people would stop going "murderers aren't Christians". I'm not saying Christians are murderers -I'm just saying that some Christians are bad, too. There's a Norwegian discussion/debate programme on TV right now on the said election. I'll watch it and then tell you what happened in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by Kain Dude, I don't even care what ANYONE says - Johnny Depp is HOT exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 MAybie the news and media whinned about homosexuality to distract us from the REAL problems in the US! Do you realy think Bu$h WANTS us to raconise the problem with our dependence on oil, the faling economy, and the real reason for the war in iraq! this bumper sticker says it ALL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle Every nationality practices homosexuality. Do you mean that they were mature enough to actually legalize and tolerate it? I meant more along the lines of how it was adopted into society(particularly war) itself( I might be confusing myself with the Macedonians, however). And just to set myself clear, I do support homosexual marriages, if you got the wrong vibe from what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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