Brighteyes Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 You know when you sit in a pub with your mates and you try putting the world to rights after a few pints? You know! All those crazy conversations you have that are worldwide revelations and would make you a great political leader amongst the humble man. Ok, heres my best one from years ago: (Soz if i offend....) If god is almighty, then he must be able to do ANYTHING right? a) Tell him to make a rock he can't move Figure it out and lemme know ladies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 This has been already discussed in the "Senate Chambers" .. with no *valueable* result to leave it at that. It's a rather stupid err.. thingy. Just like "there is no truth" or something. On the other hand.. if there is a rock that can't be moved, why not move everything around it? So first thing to determine is can there be a non-moveable rock in a relative universe like ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighteyes Posted February 18, 2005 Author Share Posted February 18, 2005 ithis isnt the answer but in reply: if there can't be an unmoveable rock in the relative universe how can there be a god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien426 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Because god makes the rules. So what if he has set the rule for himself never to let there be a rock that is un-liftable? When you "tell him to make a rock he can't move", you're a tempting your god and therefore burn in hell forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by Brighteyes this isnt the answer but in reply: if there can't be an unmoveable rock in the relative universe how can there be a god? This is not the reply but in answer: If there can be an unmovable rock how can there be a god? The point is, screw god, first determine what is unmovable. You can't say "make it unmoveable" if 'unmovability' itself is non-existant. Even the God of Saturn would laugh at you stupid human worm because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMcCoy Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by RayJones [...] screw god [...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Simple answer for all. There is no rock.* But I do have to say this, God could make an unmovable rock, he just doesn’t feel like it right now. Plus, if God is omnipotent, that means he lives outside the conventional 4 dimensions of our world where mundane rocks are a factor and where anything is possible, even the impossible, which is why so much of religion contradicts itself, it only makes sense where he comes from. You could say I'm just saying all of this as a) a cruel joke to torment religious people, which is wrong considering I am deeply religious, or b) a way of rationalizing the acts and theories surrounding God in an attempt to prove to myself that he exists. These are both wrong, I have faith in the fact that he exists, I believe in my head that he is an entity, or an essence of life, but is seen to me to be male, which is why I refer to him as a he. And I also believe that to believe in God is to believe in an entity that can create rules and then break them at will. An unmovable rock is a rule. Rule: you cannot move this rock; it has been created outside the normal conventions of rule and order so that it cannot be moved at all. Who's to say God cannot now break that rule. *And Infinity = 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighteyes Posted February 18, 2005 Author Share Posted February 18, 2005 Ok well, let's just say you want to "see" him try to move that rock with his hands (being human shaped en all). Thing is if he makes the rock = he can't move it Whereas the alternate is obviously that it just can't be done. Hence, no such thing as almighty. See the answers your giving are always the ones that crop up, about him using the power of the cosmos or he makes the rules. What about plain simple just move it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Dear Joshi, if you continuessly decide to pick on my belief that infinity is in fact _NOT_ 0 but more a finity which is simply not finite within the limits of infinity, and even if you're doing it in a decent way, I'm afraid i have to tell mum. Also I'm very surprised that you didn't catch my Futurama-quote. Wait, no, I am not really surprised I guess. -Ray So now to god. I think the basic idea here is that if god is omnipotent and he can make a rock to 'heavy' for him to move, so that he can't move it, how can he be omnipotent? Or how can he be omnipotent if he can't make a rock he can't move? And if we talk about "moving" and "rocks" we surely have to talk about the 4 dimensions. And in our universe, there is no such thing like an unmovable thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by RayJones On the other hand.. if there is a rock that can't be moved, why not move everything around it? Too obvious a referance to be commented on. Despite that fact that the makers seem to think they were the first to do that Matrix spoof in that episode. Oh, and if you tell mum about my infinity theory pissing you off, I'll have to tell her about last Thursday night. You know what I mean. Brighteyes, even in human form, he could move it, he'd just need to change the rules enough so he could do it. "These rules are exactly the same as you would find in a computer program, some can be bent, others, broken." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Everything in the universe is moving, at all times... so this is a moot discussion. Even if something was unmovable, all God would need to do is create a black hole nearby and that would clear up the problem real fast. Like Ray said: even if something is a problem within the 4 dimensions of what we recognize as space-time, an omnipotent being could slip into a higher dimension and solve the problem easily. Think of a group of flatlanders (theoretical 2-dimensional beings) coming across something in thier way that they couldn't pass or move, such as a length of string or rope. To them it would be an unbreachable barrier since most of it's bulk exists in a higher dimension... whereas any one of us could come along and help them out by picking it up for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 God could make a rock He couldn't move, but that would only be true if He downsized Himself, therfore making himself unable to move it, until He proved His point, then actually TRIED. Then he could move whatever he wants. Sorta like when He became Jesus. When He was human form, He couldn't directly do all of the stuff He originally could in his God form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinkie Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 That bash quote got negative scored Skinkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoM Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Originally posted by Skinkie Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it? ..........................................................................Microwave? Burrito? oh my dear friend.. 1. Why would he use something created by a human? 2....Why a burrito? 3. Gosh.. He can make the sun fall down on the burrito and.. Hey..Jesus is dead! ..Either that or he is really old. And senile. And... Gosh, why am i even writing this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighteyes Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 So.....er....now that that's unresolved, anybody else got any pearls of wisdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think it's very much resolved, you just can seem to admit it. The question itself is flawed enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighteyes Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 Resolved? Ok let's review the answers: a)God moves the earth instead b)a black hole c)"change the rules" eg: cheat, bit of blasphemy there old boy d)"he dosent feel like it" Resolved is it? Ray's the only one that's made a decent argument of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 So you're saying he should follow the rules in an attempt to move an object he changed the rules to create in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien426 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 That's really the question: How much does he bend / break the rules? Is god obliged to play fair? Is being all-mighty also being all-powerful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighteyes Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 EXACTLY JOSHI! He can't bend the rules to make the rock, and he can't bend them to move them! = All powerful, meaning the ability to do anything "is NOT possible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I didn't think this was a question with a right or a wrong answer. I hope we aren't being graded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenail1 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by edlib I hope we aren't being graded. I'm freakin out man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 God is allpowerful. no one said anything about him performing the imossible. If the impossible is truley impossible then power has nothing to do with it. Imagine something more colourful than you can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighteyes Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 That all depends on the mentality of the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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