TSL Restoration Project: website up!

[jaylittle]

That move was scheduled weeks prior to this incident. They are getting the server moved to some colo facility IIRC.

[jonathan7]

This isn't a court of law, and I'm not much interested in your guilt or innocence, however I will correct a few fallacies...

 

I have been summoned.

 

Lets get a few things straight first:

 

<snip>

 

Every time you sign in, your IP is logged under that username - your user name has to be supplied with an email, as such the above conjecture on your part is incorrect in so far as you could establish a circumstantial connection between email and IP address.

 

Apparently Team Gizka is claiming they have filed a DMCA violation against me via my ISP. So if my ISP is as willing to turn a blind eye to the actual evidence on the table as the community is, then I'm probably going to lose my internet connection in a few days as well.

 

May justice be served; if your innocent you keep your connection, if guilty you lose it. You'll forgive me if you protesting innocence doesn't cut any sway with me... Given that I know a great many people say they are innocent when they are in fact guilty; and you have already confessed to your 'amorality'. Your ISP will review the evidence and make a decision...

 

So I ask all of you, before you sever my head and upload a video of the process to YouTube, just take a long hard look at the facts. The facts don't support the accusations that have been leveled against me. About the only thing you guys can accurately say about me is that I am in fact a bit amoral. To be frank, I don't feel bad about the leak. I've been watching this thing for years along with so many others. I've been hoping for a morsel of an update within the last few months but gotten nothing just like everybody else. If I had obtained it first, would I have leaked it? Probably not as I would've been spending most of my time playing it.

 

My opinion of the above;

 

Most people are idiots, especially rich westerners, who have far too much time on their hands and a much inflated opinion of themselves and think they *deserve* everything right now!

 

If you didn't do what you are accused of I'm sorry that your falsely accused.

 

If you did do it, I pity you for being a sad pathetic little man; I also pity those that would want to 'harm' you for doing what you did.

 

My 2 cents.

[Amindern]

That move was scheduled weeks prior to this incident. They are getting the server moved to some colo facility IIRC.

 

That's good to hear.

[SD Nihil]

A bunch of stuff to comment on. Where to start...First, to the guy some posts above who decided to slip in his political view of rich folk let me say all it does is introduce the potential for fights and issues. It doesn't belong on this thread, this forum, or on a star wars forum in general. Post it where it's appropriate.

 

And yeah this game drama is so Harry Potter. And no I don't think this will slow the project down in the slight. Aside from having to respond to posts and questions about stuff like this having to do with a situation like this. It's time to move on and put this whole problem behind us. Let Team Gizka clean up the mess.

 

Quite frankly, I'm suprised Team Gizka hasn't shut down the whole beta tester sign up program. If it were shut down that would mean the project would take longer to be made. Something like that might act as a deturant for future troublemakers.

 

And to Team Gizka, I hope you are working at a pace you prefer. I mean look at Imperial Assault 2 project for EaW FoC. Making the mod isn't the top priority. Their lives are. And that is how it should be. Take your time. If it ticks off a few impatient who cares. The impatient aren't even good for clans either. So your doing the community a favor by making them lose interest and them going elsewhere.

 

So take your time.

[Pikmin]

I hope if your innocent you get to keep your connection.

[SD Nihil]

I know I will. Heck I don't even know what a torrent even is. When I hear the word torret the first thing I think of is a large title wave. Or a torrential flood.

[Sir Vougalot]

Whoa, wait... What's all this? Seems I've missed quite a lot! I had no idea there was a leak, a big stink about it, the team moving their website, etc.

 

I should check in on this project more often!

[TriggerGod]

basically a download.

Wow, we've caused the infamous Jaylittle to come out. Lets all give him a round of appluase!

@Jay: As John said, IP is like a map of yourself. As I'm posting, my IP becomes known, and therefor, my username, email, and place where the IP is located. So your "heap of logic" is a heap of logic in itself

Don't try to weasel out.

 

@TSLRP: Well, time for some good news. The build has gone up. My bet is that with the leak, the assigned team members worked harder to delete the bugs, that the build went up means that the people who downloaded will have an "Outdated piece of junk"

[EnderWiggin]

A few short things:

 

I think T-G made a huge mistake when they announced to the world their intent to start this project way, way, way back in 2005. They would have been better off keeping it under wraps until it was ready to be released. It would have deprived them of the publicity, but it would have also prevented all of the angst, bile and out and out nerd rage generated by the absence of a timely release. It would have also most probably prevented this leak and all of the drama surrounding it.

 

Some projects use publicity as a motivator to keep the team working. Don't be looking back in hindsight just yet; you never know what choices could have killed the whole thing. What they did seems to have worked. That's it.

 

Yawn, more drama. I'm glad TG is grown-up enough to ignore it.

 

Agreed.

 

Yes this guy is an idiot, but you realise the above actually makes you worse than him, I mean some of you guys are getting *this* stressed over a video game? And threatening to do physical violence to him?

 

You sound a little stressed all throughout your post, Jonathan. Just an observation.

 

There are far more important things to get pumped up about... 20,000 African children died yesterday, as they did the day before, and the day before that; do something about that and save all the poo some of you have been writing here.

 

That's an irrelevant fact that does not belong here. It's saddening, yes, but not helpful.

 

Most people are idiots, especially rich westerners, who have far too much time on their hands and a much inflated opinion of themselves and think they *deserve* everything right now!

 

If you're trying to start a flame war, then please, continue. However, you will quickly anger me if you continue to make absolutely *stupid* generalizations about westerners having a sense of entitlement and/or being 'rich idiots.'

 

I am a westerner, and am not rich, and do not think I deserve this mod, and am not an idiot. So watch yourself.

 

 

Final thought; Some of you are real drama queens, enough with the nerd rage!

Same goes to you, my friend

 

_EW_

[jaylittle]

basically a download.

Wow, we've caused the infamous Jaylittle to come out. Lets all give him a round of appluase!

@Jay: As John said, IP is like a map of yourself. As I'm posting, my IP becomes known, and therefor, my username, email, and place where the IP is located. So your "heap of logic" is a heap of logic in itself

I am only too well aware of how things work. I do this kind of thing for a living. Since I didn't download the beta from Team Gizka - there is no IP evidence to draw upon. Team Gizka however does have my IP address due to the fact that I was repeated visitor of their site. They are clearly looking for a scapegoat here and I've obviously become the target. The fact that they canned 10 frigging beta testers really ought to tell you people who the culprits are. Rather than admit they were betrayed by such a large collective of people they have trusted and start a big battle, the team has decided it is better to focus the blame on one external source. Me.

 

Now this is fine. But the fact remains that despite all of the accusations, nothing can be and has been proven. They claimed a variety of felonies, none of which are supported by the small shreds of evidence they have shown. They claim they can prove I downloaded the beta, but that is neither here nor there since I will readily admit to downloading the torrent as soon as I heard about it. I did not however obtain it from a Team Gizka server. I obtained it from a torrent.

 

Now let's be clear. Since this thing exploded, I've received quite a bit of emails, private messages and public criticisms. And these communications have not been entirely composed of flame either. Most of this is unverified, but from what I've been told, quite a few beta testers were privately distributing the beta build to people outside of the team. Alas my method of approach simply wasn't convincing enough to get an even earlier copy. However as I understand it, Team Gizka actually suspects that the torrent release was a coordinated effort not only on the part of the beta testers but of people they had distributed it too as well.

 

I've been told there were a lot of misgivings regarding the apparent slowdowns in the pace of development. Publicly the team was putting on a loyal stoic face but privately there were serious concerns regarding the viability of this mod reaching 1.0c1. A month and a half of delays with very little activity on the part of the devs is all it takes to change a few loyalties it would seem.

 

Of course none of the ex-testers are going to cop to this publicly. Obviously they intentionally tried to shift some of the suspicion to me, just look at the user name they picked for the torrent upload. Prior to this leak, I was the only one who publically made an attempt to obtain the beta, so what better use for that kind of reputation than that of the scapegoat?

 

But truthfully, when you think this whole thing through you have to address the fact that Team Gizka canned ten members of their beta team. Now if I was the person who leaked it and a beta tester gave it to me, then why can ten of them? If I was the person who leaked it and I hacked their boxes to get it, why can ten members of the beta team? What did the other nine do? The fact that Team Gizka is cleaning house is a huge testament to my innocence. Team Gizka has pretty much banned discussion of the leak from their forums. They don't want people digging into the truth here. Because the truth is that the people within the inner circle had deep concerns and were willing to whatever they felt was required to save the project from itself.

 

As it stands now, Team Gizka knows that if those sentiments become public, it will pretty much destroy public interest in their project and people will turn to other modding groups, hoping that they will take up the task of finishing TSLRP. Between the 1.0b8 installer leak and the source code distribution that Team Gizka was already offering for download prior to this, the modding community now has everything they need to continue this project.

 

@TSLRP: Well, time for some good news. The build has gone up. My bet is that with the leak, the assigned team members worked harder to delete the bugs, that the build went up means that the people who downloaded will have an "Outdated piece of junk"

And without beta testers around to test it, what good does it do anybody? Hell can anybody even verify that a new build was actually released? At this point, the Team has proven that they will say anything they deem necessary to seem this incident under the rug.

[TheExile]

Public message for everyone ( with all the possible respect):

Please STOP looking for someone to blame and START searching some solutions- if you think you have found all the correct, responsible solutions, start casting blames.

 

EDIT( to jaylittle):And, no offense, but why TG would cast blame on you. I don't say you are guilty, but it may be more on this then this leak to the story...

[jaylittle]

I'm not looking for anybody to blame. I'm only pointing out that if I am solely to blame, then ten beta testers shouldn't have gotten the axe. Frankly I'm quite happy to have a copy of this thing and I have been playing it all weekend long. It's pretty good all in all and while I haven't finished it yet, endgame has improved immeasurably.

[TheExile]

I was not talking in particular with you, I was addressing to the public who wants to cast blame on you or anyone else before anything.

[jonathan7]

You sound a little stressed all throughout your post, Jonathan. Just an observation.

 

Real life events.

 

That's an irrelevant fact that does not belong here. It's saddening, yes, but not helpful.

 

If you're trying to start a flame war, then please, continue. However, you will quickly anger me if you continue to make absolutely *stupid* generalizations about westerners having a sense of entitlement and/or being 'rich idiots.'

 

I am a westerner, and am not rich, and do not think I deserve this mod, and am not an idiot. So watch yourself.

 

The point was more that people are talking about a sense of entitlement to TSLRP, that they should have it now and TSLRP should be released... I was more pointing out that it is only a computer game.

 

I have no intention to start a flame war, and the post wasn't intended as such. Given your on my friends list do you think I would classify you in any of the aforementioned categories

 

I'm a westerner. However I have no wish to turn this into a debate on the state of modern culture so I shall stop there. I think you have construed my post in an incorrect method - I would clarify that in my mind most is anything above 51%...

 

Same goes to you, my friend

 

I'm not angry, just concerned for some.

[HK-42]

Jaylittle@ IF u did leak this mod may it have a huge bug that blows up your computer...(unlikily)

 

If you didnt may your computer be fine and if you didnt but people say you did change your IP username and email and simply restart your internet life

[Darth InSidious]

I think T-G made a huge mistake when they announced to the world their intent to start this project way, way, way back in 2005. They would have been better off keeping it under wraps until it was ready to be released. It would have deprived them of the publicity, but it would have also prevented all of the angst, bile and out and out nerd rage generated by the absence of a timely release. It would have also most probably prevented this leak and all of the drama surrounding it.

 

This is really beginning to piss me off - especially since most of the people who go on about this have no idea what they're talking about. This isn't directed solely at you, Q, but is a general response to the masses of people who keep talking this crap.

 

For the last time, Team Gizka did not go out seeking any more publicity than any other mod project. They set up a WIP thread here once they had a complete listing of content to restore, and a forum for administrative purposes. Publicity came to them.

 

In '06/'07, some of the original betas put together videos which were put on YouTube. They showed a few bits of cut content, and were received by a lot of people as the only signs of progress along with the bug count... despite the small hole in this theory that content was - and as far as I know, still is - being implemented.

 

I was there, I saw it, most of you didn't. End of, and take your sense of entitlement with you.

 

That is all.

[Q]

Some projects use publicity as a motivator to keep the team working. Don't be looking back in hindsight just yet; you never know what choices could have killed the whole thing. What they did seems to have worked. That's it.

With all due respect, Ender, I feel that I must disagree with you here. All of the publicity, positive as well as negative, has had a detrimental effect on progress in this case, IMHO.

 

I can give valid reasons as to why I believe this, but I don't want to look like a hypocrite after supporting T-G for so long. Neither of our respective arguments could be proven or disproven, anyway.

[Darth InSidious]

With all due respect, Ender, I feel that I must disagree with you here. All of the publicity, positive as well as negative, has had a detrimental effect on progress in this case, IMHO.

 

I can give valid reasons as to why I believe this, but I don't want to look like a hypocrite after supporting T-G for so long. Neither of our respective arguments could be proven or disproven, anyway.

 

Publicity which, as I said, was unsought.

 

I'd also point out more generally that no-one here is privy to the internal workings of TG, but this idea seems to have been chucked out of the window along with the common sense...

[Q]

Publicity which, as I said, was unsought.

I never said that it was sought, nor have I ever intentionally inferred such a thing. I'm not among the rabid, hate-spewing masses who seem determined to destroy T-G out of some sense of betrayal. I merely pointed out that I believe it has had a negative effect. Please don't read so much into what I said.

[Darth InSidious]

I never said that it was sought, nor have I ever intentionally inferred such a thing. I'm not among the rabid, hate-spewing masses who seem determined to destroy T-G out of some sense of betrayal. I merely pointed out that it has had a negative effect.

 

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't entirely sure what you were getting at at first...

[SD Nihil]

Yeah. He responed to my post in a pm. He says freedom of speech shouldn't be limited on a forum. I've told him though he says he has yet to have a problem with someone who may get offended with what he says, it doesn't mean that can't happen one day. From experience I know that though a moderator or admin is supposed to be objective and unbiased sometimes knowing your political stance the admin or mod can give you a hard time. Same with members in general.

 

Let's say someone was posting some britney spears not nude, but inappropriate pics that aren't breaking the rules, but frowned upon. You really shouldn't go in and say hey take that down. Let the admins take care of it if they wish. Otherwise just don't go to that thread, or post on something where you might cause a problem. It may not be your intention. You may be just trying to make a point, but just don't want you to have to deal with a fight.

 

He says that LF usually is fine with what he says. That's cool. I don't post much here so I really don't have a feel for how people generally are here. But I know just that it's best to simply keep some views to yourself. Now if it was a political discussion, religous, or one wher it was appropriate than ok.

 

But guys this is getting off topic. Oh where did they move their site to? Can I get a link? Thanks.

[jonathan7]

But guys this is getting off topic. Oh where did they move their site to? Can I get a link? Thanks.

 

Same links are still working for me, after the site was down earlier; http://www.team-gizka.org/wip.html

[Q]

He says freedom of speech shouldn't be limited on a forum.

Ah, so "He's a political idealist, not a murderer."

 

He obviously hasn't had too much experience here, then.

[jonathan7]

Ah, so "He's a political idealist, not a murderer."

 

He obviously hasn't had too much experience here, then.

 

Who, me?

 

I've never been censored so far - though unfortunately I think some haven't take one of my posts as intended - I reported my own post, so will see what our wonderful mods think

[jaylittle]

Well TG just continues to obfuscate the issue, but here is a rather enlightening post by killerbob on the TG forums:

 

http://forums.team-gizka.org/viewtopic.php?p=59882#p59882

It wasn't personal... most of them got weeded out, and the team is down to about 3 people for now. It may expand again in the future, but for now I just don't know. All things considered, it's better to keep it restricted so we can keep a tighter lid and prevent another leak from happening. With the project as close to release as it is, and all.

This was in response to one of the now ex-testers complaining about being kicked out.

 

Seriously if people aren't questioning this now, I don't know what else I can say. Well at least I can go back to playing the leak knowing that the truth is going to come out if for no other reason than the fact that Team Gizka absolutely sucks at public relations and damage control.