The system sucks...

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Breton

No offense, but what I see here is a bunch of teenagers yelling "Crucify, crucify!" against a kid they know nothing about.

Seems you know nothing.

 

I think if you knew all the details you wouldn't be so quick to act like a naive child.

[Vikinor]

The system is crap. It has ben for a while too. 1st chance I get I'm going to Sweden(to live) with my dad.

[wassup]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

Seems you know nothing.

 

I think if you knew all the details you wouldn't be so quick to act like a naive child.

 

Yet it also seems you have a certain bias for this case because it personally affected you. Perhaps you could refresh our memories with all the details of this particular case so we can all at least try to make a sound and reasonable judgement before joining you in your holy crusade of condemnation.

 

Thanks.

[Darth Groovy]

"He is a changed young man, he wants to get out and be a contributing member of society," Matlock said.

 

See I don't get that. They only say that when there is a trial. You don't just "change". I mean I wish I could tell some of my bosses that when I **** up. "Oh i'm a changed man now." Like everyone is supposed to go "gee, he's a changed man, let's shake his hand and just forget about it now."

 

Bull****.

 

John, death and destruction, only brings about more death and destruction. Sure, the system fails, but it is the ONLY system we have. Besides it won't bring your freind back. If you cared for him the way we KNOW you do, you won't do anything stupid, because you are better than that and you know it as much as we do.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by wassup

Yet it also seems you have a certain bias for this case because it personally affected you. Perhaps you could refresh our memories with all the details of this particular case so we can all at least try to make a sound and reasonable judgement before joining you in your holy crusade of condemnation.

 

Thanks.

Sadistically torturing him, nearly, beyond recognition. (only recognized by close friends and family, others couldn't even tell it was him)

 

Then shooting him leaving him to die a slow and painful death. Leaving his corpse in a ditch and trying to remove evidence of his crime. Then talking about how he did nothing wrong. He even bragged about it. Not until his first appearance in court did he "express remorse". I had later seen him in the juvinile center and he once again bragged about it and acted like he had done nothing wrong.

 

Daniels face had to be reconstructed as the skull was practically shattered.

 

 

I just don't see any reason for them to allow him to be free until his murder trial. It is absurd.

[Darth Groovy]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

Sadistically torturing him, nearly, beyond recognition. (only recognized by close friends and family, others couldn't even tell it was him)

 

Then shooting him leaving him to die a slow and painful death. Leaving his corpse in a ditch and trying to remove evidence of his crime. Then talking about how he did nothing wrong. He even bragged about it. Not until his first appearance in court did he "express remorse". I had later seen him in the juvinile center and he once again bragged about it and acted like he had done nothing wrong.

 

Daniels face had to be reconstructed as the skull was practically shattered.

 

 

I just don't see any reason for them to allow him to be free until his murder trial. It is absurd.

 

I remember when that happened. In my experience, the world is a nasty lifeless godless place, and what it comes down too, is that the only sanity that is left is whatever values left that we choose hang on too. Once we let go of that, we are no different than the rest of the loonies in this sick world.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

The court obviously believed that the chance of him running away was very slim, and I think we ought to respect that judgement. After all, the court has far more information and insight in this case and his person than we have, right?

I've heard that one before. Then the robber or the rapist or the murderer kills again, which he wouldn't have done if he was in jail.

 

Besides, "low chance of running away"? Let's see here. If he successfuly escapes to Mexico or Canada or some other country and never gets caught, he won't go to jail. If he doesn't, he'll go to murder trial and be jailed for life.

 

Yeah, let's give him a "breather".

 

And he's been in prison for a damn year, after all. How 'bout giving the lad a breather, eh? We'll help him get back to society as a law-abiding person, which is a win-win situation.

Not to the people who knew and loved the kid this guy murdered. A year is nothing. If you lose someone to murder, a year ago is like yesterday.

 

Originally posted by Darth Groovy

See I don't get that. They only say that when there is a trial. You don't just "change". I mean I wish I could tell some of my bosses that when I **** up. "Oh i'm a changed man now." Like everyone is supposed to go "gee, he's a changed man, let's shake his hand and just forget about it now."

But murder isn't arriving late, Groovy. Surely you see how much more heinous your crime is (kidding)?

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Not to the people who knew and loved the kid this guy murdered. A year is nothing. If you lose someone to murder, a year ago is like yesterday.

^

 

Not to mention the lives his actions have ruined.

 

I have friends that are in mental hospitals suffering from various psychological illnesses. Chances are many of them will never recover.

 

*edit* allow me to be more specific about one of my friends.

 

He suffers from extreme paranoia. He has to be force fed. He sleeps about 4 hours a week. He refuses to communicate with anyone other than 4 people, myself, my friend, Daniels mother, and his doctor. Anyone else he goes into panic attacks in which he rips out hair and pretty much damages his entire body. He's broken several bones in these panic attacks. He's still in a cast after breaking his leg.

 

And incase I've never mentioned it. Daniel's girlfriend had killed herself shortly after the funeral service.

[Mike Windu]

Man, I sure am sorry for all this...

 

*huggle*

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by Darth Groovy

... the world is a nasty lifeless godless place, and what it comes down too, is that the only sanity that is left is whatever values left that we choose hang on too. Once we let go of that, we are no different than the rest of the loonies in this sick world.

 

grooves, that was awesome..

 

*claps*

 

 

mtfbwya

[Dagobahn Eagle]

He suffers from extreme paranoia. He has to be force fed. He sleeps about 4 hours a week. He refuses to communicate with anyone other than 4 people, myself, my friend, Daniels mother, and his doctor. Anyone else he goes into panic attacks in which he rips out hair and pretty much damages his entire body. He's broken several bones in these panic attacks. He's still in a cast after breaking his leg.

While my case wasn't light years near that, I do not blame him.

 

I remember when a friend of mine got raped and I got scared to be outside at night, to have people walk behind me at the side-walk, etc. etc. etc. I've been a lot more careful since then, and I've been encouraging others to be more cautious, too (within reason of course).

 

And incase I've never mentioned it. Daniel's girlfriend had killed herself shortly after the funeral service.

Now I need a "breather"...

 

Yet it also seems you have a certain bias for this case because it personally affected you.

Aye, but telling stories like InsaneSith's helps people to understand just what murder is all about, thus helping them make informed judgements. Honestly, I've grown more than sick at the people who want murderers to go free and justify it by "the people left behind get over it". Nonsense.

 

---D. E.

Move request: This thread should be moved to the Senate, asks you me.

PPS: You aren't being a bit too open now, are you, Sith? I mean, I've heard tonnes of stories like this and won't "freak out" (even with gruesome one like this one), but just be cautious with people you don't know, even over the Web.

[ET Warrior]

I was actually planning to move 'er on over, as this is a discussion of senate proportions.

[Breton]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

I've heard that one before. Then the robber or the rapist or the murderer kills again, which he wouldn't have done if he was in jail.

 

Besides, "low chance of running away"? Let's see here. If he successfuly escapes to Mexico or Canada or some other country and never gets caught, he won't go to jail. If he doesn't, he'll go to murder trial and be jailed for life.

 

Yeah, let's give him a "breather".

 

 

Less than 0.8% of criminals run away on probation. In other words, more than 99.2% of criminals on probation returns to prison at agreed time.

 

I assume the court has estimated and thought of the chance of runaway. And I assume they do a very careful job on it. They also have more information about that kid than anyone here does.

 

Not to the people who knew and loved the kid this guy murdered. A year is nothing. If you lose someone to murder, a year ago is like yesterday.

 

Heh. I wouldn't last a day in prison, much less a week.

 

A year is a long time to spend locked away from everything in your life.

 

He suffers from extreme paranoia. He has to be force fed. He sleeps about 4 hours a week. He refuses to communicate with anyone other than 4 people, myself, my friend, Daniels mother, and his doctor. Anyone else he goes into panic attacks in which he rips out hair and pretty much damages his entire body. He's broken several bones in these panic attacks. He's still in a cast after breaking his leg.

 

And incase I've never mentioned it. Daniel's girlfriend had killed herself shortly after the funeral service.

 

That's very sad. Seriously, I can't even begin to pretend to know how you're feeling.

 

But thing is, one shouldn't let one's sadness turn into anger, and let that anger harm another human being. Blood vengeance is a principle I can't accept.

 

I'm also sure the case would look a lot different if seen from the eyes of the kid and his family. At least try to do so.

[SkinWalker]

And this thread is welcome here.

 

I live within a short drive (the adjacent county) of InsaneSith and the town where the murder occurred. We even watch the same local television stations.

 

This kind of hits home to me too. Though not nearly as hard as it does Sith.

 

I recommend writing a well-thought out letter to the Dallas Morning News as well as the local paper (the To the Editor section), criticizing the decision to release him until the trial. Outline some of the details you mentioned here, the brutality of the murder and the effects Daniel's murder had on his family and friends. People so often forget that when someone is killed, it isn't just the killer and the killed that are affected, but everyone close to them -even the killer's family and close friends are affected and will grieve for both the killed as well as their impending loss of the killer.

 

But someone who affects so many people so adversely the way Daniel's killer did, shouldn't be released prior to his trial. It's amazing that his trial has taken so long to begin with.

 

Write that letter, dude.

[LightNinja]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

He suffers from extreme paranoia. He has to be force fed. He sleeps about 4 hours a week. He refuses to communicate with anyone other than 4 people, myself, my friend, Daniels mother, and his doctor. Anyone else he goes into panic attacks in which he rips out hair and pretty much damages his entire body. He's broken several bones in these panic attacks. He's still in a cast after breaking his leg.

 

And incase I've never mentioned it. Daniel's girlfriend had killed herself shortly after the funeral service.

what a mother****er, but why he killed him? without any reason!?? did he know your friend?. I don't understand how people can do this, completely i can't

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Glad Breton is here, as otherwise we'd all be in agreement, which'd be boring indeed.

 

A year is a long time to spend locked away from everything in your life.

I was referring to the relatives and loved ones of the person killed, not the murderer. Not sure if you understood that.

 

As for "one year is forever for jail in-mates", yes, perhaps so, but that's no reason to let them back into society.

 

But thing is, one shouldn't let one's sadness turn into anger

Yes, one should. Sadness and anger are both part of the classic and proven "5 phases": Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. And turning sadness into anger (energy) helps you vent it if you do so in a good way (ie. exercising).

 

I'm also sure the case would look a lot different if seen from the eyes of the kid and his family. At least try to do so.

If my beloved cousin committed murder and raped someone, I'd be deeply saddened and feel really sorry for her, yes. It'd be a huge, huge tragedy.

 

But I'd still be in favour of life-time imprisonement.

 

Less than 0.8% of criminals run away on probation. In other words, more than 99.2% of criminals on probation returns to prison at agreed time.

In Norway or in the USA?

 

If that's American statistics, it means thousands of criminals run away each year. Definetly not acceptable if you ask me.

 

"An eye for an eye, and the whole world would be blind" - Mahatma Ghandi

This isn't an eye for an eye. Death sentence for murder is. Life-time for murder and torture certainly isn't.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by LightNinja

what a mother****er, but why he killed him? without any reason!??

There was no reason to kill him.

 

Originally posted by LightNinja

did he know your friend?. I don't understand how people can do this, completely i can't

We all went to the same school. Even hung out a few times. Daniel knew him more than I did. But we all knew him, which makes it very disgusting.

 

Breton I'm not going to debate with you as I see no logical reason to allow him loose.

 

He has proven himself to be a cold blooded killer who excercises no remorse for his actions. While I do wish him to stay locked up for personal reasons, I also wish it for a logical reason, so that he never does this to anyone again. You may say I'm being "uncivilised" I call it being logical and human. Take a walk in my shoes, I'm sure you'd kill yourself. Especially if you can't handle a week in lockup.

[toms]

Originally posted by LightNinja

what a mother****er, but why he killed him? without any reason!?? did he know your friend?. I don't understand how people can do this, completely i can't

 

He may well be completely guilty, very evil and deserve to goto prison for a very long time. He may well be totally mentally disturbed. He may be totally innocent. I have no idea.

 

But throwing a hissy fit/lynching party simply because a (i assume) well informed court made the decision to let him out until the trial just seems stupid to me.

 

If he runs away then fine, throw a hissy fit. Otherwise I'll be waiting for Sith to post an update if and when he turns up to trial or not.

 

Was it your intention to sound insulting and heartless, or did that just kind of happen?

 

Sorry, didn't mean to sound heartless, just didn't like the way the thread was going.

[SkinWalker]

There's a reason why the system has a built-in mechanism for dealing with flight risks. A Bosnian immigrant, living with Bosnian parents who stated that they would flee on public record when their son was released, seems to qualify as a flight risk.

 

We don't know what information the court was working with when it decided to release the juvenile. It could be that the information centered around re-election, politics between DA and defense attorneys, etc. Or it could be due process of the law -perhaps detention past 12 months is a technical violation of policy, even in a case as serious as this. It could be that the suppression of evidence motion that has been fought for a year is a legal ploy to delay to that very point in order for the killer to be released so that his family can flee the country back to Bosnia where they can effectively disappear.

 

Whatever the case, this is country based on legal and public checks and balances. Public outcry and dissent is a form of balance to check the government. Pressure needs to be kept on the District Attorney's office by the public in the form of protest. This will ensure that measures are taken to prevent the defendant from fleeing the country.

 

I don't recall a mention of a lynching. Sith said he might feel the need to do something "rash." That could be anything from getting drunk to writing a letter of profanity to the defendant's family. Or worse. But nobody said "lynch."

[ShadowTemplar]

The perspective I resent the most is that it has taken 13+ months between the arrest and the trial. This is unacceptable. Even if he is convicted - and for philosophical reasons I must insist upon the if - it is still unacceptable. It is a general problem that the courts are too slow on the uptake. In principle, a completely innocent person could be arrested, imprisoned for a year or more and brought to stand trial where he could be cleared of all charges.

 

I can understand that people are kept imprisoned during investigation for 2-5 months. But much longer than that begins to constitute a problem.

 

Of course, if the suspect in question (or his lawyer) starts using delaying tactics, the picture changes completely, but that's another matter entirely.

[Lady Jedi]

I don't really have much to debate on this issue, but that bastard killed another human being and affected so many others that it's sick. He desereves to be locked up AT ALL TIMES!

 

When I told my mom about this, all she could say is, "Well, aren't people just nuts? What an awful thing." She couldn't believe it.

 

@Sith:You have my condolenses. I'm so so sorry for your loss and everyone's. I wish you peace. I know that might sound weird but when everything feels like it's gone to hell, peace is an amazing feeling.

 

I don't know what else to say; I'm totally at a loss.

 

R.I.P. Daniel and girlfriend.