Do video games corrupt our youth?

[The Hidden One]

What do you think? I think mature games shoudn't be played by children younger than 12. But older children have enough thought process to know what's good or wrong unless they were raised in a dysfunctional family and didn't know better.

 

But generaly I say no.

[El Sitherino]

No.

[TK-8252]

Simply no.

 

There was a debate here I remember, maybe in the Swamp...

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by TK-8252

Simply no.

 

There was a debate here I remember, maybe in the Swamp...

 

Yup.

Was a long while back, so whatever.

[TheMadDoofer]

If you're out of it enough to break the lines between reality and vitual reality, you shouldn't be in the real world anyway.

[SkinWalker]

There were some studies done in the past few years on this, both reported on here:http://my.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_56903

 

" those who had played more violent video games as teenagers reported engaging in more aggressive behavior. Men exhibited more aggression, and men who are more prone to exhibit aggressive behavior may be even more vulnerable to violent video games, the study found."

 

And:

 

"We now know for a fact that playing a violent video game for even a short period of time increases aggressive behavior in the short term," says Anderson, who recently testified before the U.S. Senate on the impact of "interactive" violence on children.

 

Both studies were published in the primary source of Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, a peer-reviewed journal.

 

The WebMD article does, however, conclude with, "[o]bservers say it's still too early to say for sure what the effects of video violence might be. Industry representatives say the study findings don't always translate to the real world."

 

This 60 Minutes report, by Ed Bradley is also worth reading: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/60minutes/main678261.shtml

 

I saw that one when it aired.

 

I can tell you that at WalMart, if you try to buy certain age-restricted merchandise, like video games, CDs and DVDs, the cash register prompts the cashier to check your ID. They have to follow the prompts or risk being fired if discovered selling age-restricted merchandise.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

"...men who are more prone to exhibit aggressive behavior may be even more vulnerable to violent video games."

So one could say it's because of their own, natural, aggressive behaviour that they're attracted to the type of game, and not that the game causes it.

 

And men generally are more aggressive, especially when going through puberty.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

So one could say it's because of their own, natural, aggressive behaviour that they're attracted to the type of game, and not that the game causes it.

 

 

Yes, that is a possibility with the first study that I noted as well. But the second study seems to negate that.

 

Originally posted by InsaneSith

And men generally are more aggressive, especially when going through puberty.

 

After the students played the video games for a third time, they played another game in which they had to set up a blast of noise that their opponents would hear if they lost. Those who had played the violent video game set the noise blast to last longer than the others, which the researchers interpreted as being more aggressive. Women displayed higher levels of hostility and aggression than did the men.

 

-- from the second study.

 

One could also say that most members of a forum (i.e. LucasForums) dedicated mainly to gaming would be naturally biased in favor of gaming and more skeptical of the studies done regardless of what they demonstrate.

 

There are some other studies, more recent, but I'll have to dig them up. There was also a piece that I remember reading while back that spoke of the number of crimes that have been commited that were either similar to GTA or where the criminals who commited them stated that they got the ideas from GTA... I'll look for that as well.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Women displayed higher levels of hostility and aggression than did the men.

Interesting. And I assume they did take necessary measures to make sure no underlying circumstances were in play.

 

 

This does seem to go against everything I witnessed when participating in a test like this.

 

I'm curious about all the events that took place though and what kind of people these students were.

 

 

Second study

 

The games have similar difficulty levels, so frustration could be ruled out as one cause of aggression. The students played the games three times, in two separate sessions, about a week apart.

The problem with that is some people handle frustration differently.

 

second study

 

Those who had played the violent video game set the noise blast to last longer than the others, which the researchers interpreted as being more aggressive.

That still doesn't exactly prove they'd become physically violent. Some people can audibly express their frustration and relieve stress, it's actually a common therapeutic treatment.

 

The problem with their assumption is they think it to be aggressive. But it could just be them releasing their frustration. And aggression doesn't directly mean violence.

 

I've seen people become equally frustrated from driving, and they've never played a video game in their life. Perhaps driving causes violence.

 

I just can't find myself (as a rational person, not a gamer) to see a relation between video games and aggressive behaviour, considering it's been around since the beginning of man. I say it all just depends solely on the person.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Thank you, SkinWalker, finally someone else on my side than just me:).

 

Now if I can only get my psychology book back, it has a neat source in it too, I recall.

 

As for playing violent/war games at the age of <13, that's a definite no, no matter how innocent and un-realistic the violence looks. It just makes people, especially kids, less sensitive to such things.

 

The problem with their assumption is they think it to be aggressive. But it could just be them releasing their frustration. And aggression doesn't directly mean violence.

However, aggression is frustration and anger... Acted out.

 

I've seen people become equally frustrated from driving, and they've never played a video game in their life. Perhaps driving causes violence.

Indeed it does. Ever heard of road rage?

 

I just can't find myself (...) to see a relation between video games and aggressive behaviour, considering it's been around since the beginning of man (...).

Just that Man has been around longer than video games doesn't mean video games have nothing to do with violence.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Thank you, SkinWalker, finally someone else on my side than just me:).

 

That is, if your "side" is the side of objective truth, waiting to be discovered by the scientific method." I can be swayed back the other way by a single study if its methods and results are right.....

[Dagobahn Eagle]

That is, if your "side" is the side of objective truth, waiting to be discovered by the scientific method." I can be swayed back the other way by a single study if its methods and results are right.....

That's what I meant. I think.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

However, aggression is frustration and anger... Acted out.

Very well. So that would make many therapeutic treatements, aggression.

 

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Indeed it does. Ever heard of road rage?

Yes. But how many people are genuinely have it?

How do we know people that become violent from video games don't suffer from something like, video rage?

 

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Just that Man has been around longer than video games doesn't mean video games have nothing to do with violence.

I know. I agree that some people can be affected by it. But video games as a whole I don't think can affect anyone that doesn't already have a pre-disposition to violent behaviour. I take this by what I have seen.

 

Until I see conclusive evidence to support otherwise, I just can't make myself see a genuine connection.

[TK-8252]

Even if it's true video games increase aggression, that's totally different from "corruption." If video games really "corrupt" our youth, every GTA player would go out and hijack a bus and rampage through the streets, and no one would show up for school since everyone would be killing eachother. But is this kind of behavior common? Nope. The kind of people who can actually be "corrupted" by video games are already messed up in the head long before they picked up the controller.

 

I still find it hard to believe that aggression could even be increased. I'm like the most calm person ever and I do nothing but play video games all day every day. Most EVERY guy at school has played some kind of violent M-rated video game, and it's not a warzone.

[lukeiamyourdad]

All of these cases of aggression and video games have never been truly linked together.

Studies tend to ignore any kind of outside influence.

Also, due to ethics, some key studies would never be able to be done.

 

It is ridiculous to say GTA can cause violence. If I already live in a bad neighborhood, my father is in prison and my mother's a whore, I'll probably end up a thug on the street, whether GTA exists or not.

 

I made a research about it some time ago and found two articles that were quite interesting:

 

This one is a bit old but still a good read.

http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/sfischo/violence.html

 

This one is from Richard Rhodes. It's also quite old, it dates back a few years, but also interesting:

http://www.abffe.com/myth1.htm

[SkinWalker]

This is from the Jan/Feb 2005 issue of Psychology Today:

 

Brain

 

PARENTS HAVE LONG had misgivings about gory video-game scenes, but new research suggests yet another reason to limit time at the joystick.

 

A study by Adelphi University researchers in New York suggests that long-term video-game use could make boys easily frustrated and impatient. In a pilot study of boys ages 11 to 14, those who had more experience playing the games spent less time working on an unsolvable puzzle, according to researchers Eric Schleifer and Rebecca Curtis.

 

Schleifer's hypothesis: The control and instant gratification provided by video games make players more impulsive. But he is pursuing a more in-depth study before drawing conclusions. "It may be that kids with lower frustration tolerance, who are more impulsive, are drawn to video games because of the control it offers," he explains.

 

Schleifer believes his study is the first of its kind. Much psychological research studies a game's content and links to violence or other bad behavior.

 

The two bolded portions of the quote above show both the correlation as well as the possible problem with the research, that those that are lazy are simply attracted to gaming.

 

In each of the studies presented thus far on both sides of the issue, the same basic problem of scientific discovery arises: correlation does not automatically imply causation.

 

In order for the researcher above to determine the causation, he'll need to create a control group, perhaps of inexperienced gamers who he can evaluate initially and then again after they've gained significant experience at gaming.

[El Sitherino]

So is this just gory, violent, fps style games or are these puzzle and strategy games as well? Because I mostly play games in which you need atleast some form of strategy, and I don't suffer from any of those problems. Infact I have an obsessive personality, I refuse to quit.

 

This is another problem with these studies, they don't really clarify exactly what kind of games.

[kipperthefrog]

I play all kinds of games. the most violent ones I can find. I play Hitman and Theif (sneack around kill people one by one) I never actualy went out and hurt anyone.

 

Even Kids should be able to decipher fantasy from reality.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Luke, thanks for those links. I'll be sure to read them:).

 

I play all kinds of games. the most violent ones I can find. I play Hitman and Theif (sneack around kill people one by one) I never actualy went out and hurt anyone.

OK, Frog, with all due respect, that proves nothing.

 

I know a 13 years old boy who survived trying to kill himself by jumping out of his car that was going at 50-60 miles per hour. The guy didn't even break anything. Now, can he go out and advise people to throw themselves at the concrete of Houson highways from cars going at 55? I don't think so.

 

Can a smoker who hasn't gotten lung cancer say there's no risk of lung cancer because he hasn't gotten it yet? No way, Hosé.

 

If you want to convince me, you'll need to do better than saying "you're obviously wrong, as it hasn't' happened to me". Show me studies, and I'll read them.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

I know a 13 years old boy who survived trying to kill himself by jumping out of his car that was going at 50-60 miles per hour. The guy didn't even break anything. Now, can he go out and advise people to throw themselves at the concrete of Houson highways from cars going at 55? I don't think so.

 

Can a smoker who hasn't gotten lung cancer say there's no risk of lung cancer because he hasn't gotten it yet? No way, Hosé.

That same argument can be said oppositely against your side as well.

 

Just because a few people have gone nuts, and played video games doesn't mean it directly relates.

[txa1265]

I think that there are is an inherent confounding of factors in all of these studies - and that is the changes in society at large.

 

The initial studies speak of aggression in gamers - yet compares it to the reaction to TV violence, which has been more or less discounted as a causal effect of violence. Ideas, sure. Cause, no.

 

The other studies speak of instant gratification, and a possible link to aggression and frustration due to difficulty in games. Hasn't our worl society become more and more based around instant gratification and disposable everything?

 

I have no doubt that in general violent games desensitize people to violence in general, and that in younger kids it provides an outlet that hurts, rather than helps, the building of internal limits of appropriate physical play. For example, after playing Super Smash Brothers, kids might go outside and start whaling on each other much harder, because there is no link to hurting others established in games - and if there is, it is positively rewarded.

 

Mike

[toms]

True.

 

Which is the problem with 95% of this subject... its all based on specific one-off examples. Which statistically don't mean anything.

 

Those studies surprise me. I have nothing to back them up, but they don't seem right.

 

Playing wolfenstien 3d three times is enough to make you noticably more violent?

 

I can MAYBE buy the desensitisation argument as the only long term argument against video games (and other forms of violent entertainment), but surely that would take more than trying it three times to have a noticable effect?

 

I would have thought that adrenaline was a more likely cause... what with wolf3d being an action games and myst being, well dull.

 

That and maybe the fact that wolf3d is a game that has you "competing" against people and trying to overcome them, wheras myst is a single person not competing with anyone.

Like comparing the adrenaline, competetiveness and agression of someone doing a crossword with someone playing chess.

 

Maybe they should have compared Wolf3d with Mario or Tiger Woods or something?

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by toms

Which is the problem with 95% of this subject... its all based on specific one-off examples. Which statistically don't mean anything.

 

Those studies surprise me. I have nothing to back them up, but they don't seem right.

 

Playing wolfenstien 3d three times is enough to make you noticably more violent?

 

I have some specific problems with some specifics in the methodology of the studies themselves, but by and large, these are problems that the researchers themselves have acknowledged. To date, they've been successful at demonstrating correlations, but when it comes to causation, the research models don't readily lend themselves to testing, which is what they're attempting to figure out.

 

What I'm saying is, there are valid criticisms of the methodologies, but most gamers and proponents of gaming aren't interested in reading the primary sources and looking at the methodology sections themselves. Instead, they are content with making uninformed statements that include assumptions like the participants of the study played "Wolfenstien 3d three times."

 

In at least one of the references I cited with a link, there was a very good description of the methodology even though it wasn't from the primary publication (i.e. the peer-reviewed journal).

 

Simply making blanket assumptions and non-targeted criticisms only lends credance to the point that gamers are biased to gaming and will not objectively review the subject.

 

But as I said, there are valid criticisms about the methodologies that even the researchers acknowledge.

[txa1265]

The problem isn't with the studies, but rather the 'special interest' conclusions drawn.

 

Who would argue that (a)playing an action filled sport (b) watching an action filled spport or movie or © playing an action filled video game do not result in endorphin and adrenaline pumping through your system, having you 'ready for action'?

 

All of these studies cry out for the need for parents to take greater responsibility for their kids upbringing. When you let your 5 year old play Halo and watch LotR and Matrix, and he goes out on the playground and wants to *really* hit because pretending isn't *real* enough and then bats a kid on the face with a plastic sword leaving him crying and hurt, is it the movie or game-maker's fault?*** No, it shows that the parents have not provided a context for the kid to understand right and wrong, good and bad, and that actions have consequences ...

 

Mike

 

 

***I wish that were a made up example! Let's just say that as a parent, you won't always agree with the parenting of your kids' friends ...

[swphreak]

As for the topic, no I don't think video games corrupt "the youth." But video games have ratings on them so I really don't see what the problem is. Your 12 year old kills his best friend performing some stunt in GTA, that's the parent's fault, not GTA. And it really ticks me off when they try to sue video game companies.

 

The games have ratings. The End.