Samurai DD Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I would be fond of an upgraded Jade Empire combat system, but D20 for all other things, like skills. So, I didnt vote, cause my idea is a combination of both. But, I aint really sure, I am fond of the D20 system, I play D&D. If they do keep D20, we need a lot of new animations and a more fluid and fast system. Its lightsaber combat after all. In K1 and K2 there was a delay between movements, that I felt halted the action. It was one of its minor flaws, I truly like the D20 system, it just needs tweaks here and there to be perfect. Ranged combat does need a radical change though. It was really boring and the anis were repetitive. Plus, it was no match for melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiEND_138 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 If I wanted to play a freaking action game I'd PLAY a freaking action game. Agreed. If you want JK combat play JK. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallucination Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I voted keep the D20 system. It needs some changes, because the graphics are so old it was made when swords went through people without hurting them!! But seriously, update the graphics, add alot more animations and I'll be pretty damn happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Definitely keep D20. They will lose a lot of players if they switch it, and D20 just fits the game. Everybody is used to it, the game will be totally different if they change the combat system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaSolo Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Oh, and by the way, I knew your opinion by looking at the poll choices. "Real Jedi Knight Experience" versus "Computer Experience"? No kidding. Talk about a loaded question. He might as well have made the poll question "totally awesome, greatest combat ever in JK, or crappy, terrible, useless, i hate it d20 system". I'm not aiming this directly at this person, but I get frustrated seeing so many people who like JA or JK keep suggesting to change the KOTOR combat to a more "action" system and say "lol wouldn't it be awesome!??!". No, it wouldn't. I play KOTOR BECAUSE it has its current combat system. Like I said in my post, if I wanted to play JK combat, I'd play JK. It's as bad as the people who keep suggesting KOTOR become a MMORPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Okay, we've all agreed that D20 should stay with a lot of improvement (new animations, combos etc.) And the Melee system is excellent, just a little more tweaking and it's the best. But aren't you people forgetting that the RANGED COMBAT is the WORST SYSTEM I've seen in my entire life. The Ranged system needs SERIOUS reconstrucion, formulasation, scripting, etc. if you ask me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallucination Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 ^^ yeah it does, but I rarely use ranged so I don't really care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Okay, we've all agreed that D20 should stay with a lot of improvement (new animations, combos etc.) And the Melee system is excellent, just a little more tweaking and it's the best. But aren't you people forgetting that the RANGED COMBAT is the WORST SYSTEM I've seen in my entire life. The Ranged system needs SERIOUS reconstrucion, formulasation, scripting, etc. if you ask me... No. I kinda like it as it is. I mean, you can't have D20 for melee and then switch to manual aiming for ranged. It just wouldn't make any sense. If you want to keep D20, it's a necessary consequence that ranged combat looks weird. Personally, I don't care about it. This isn't Rainbow Six, I'm not looking for realistic firefights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaSolo Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Okay, we've all agreed that D20 should stay with a lot of improvement (new animations, combos etc.) And the Melee system is excellent, just a little more tweaking and it's the best. But aren't you people forgetting that the RANGED COMBAT is the WORST SYSTEM I've seen in my entire life. The Ranged system needs SERIOUS reconstrucion, formulasation, scripting, etc. if you ask me... How so? What would you change about ranged combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 No. I kinda like it as it is. I mean, you can't have D20 for melee and then switch to manual aiming for ranged. It just wouldn't make any sense. If you want to keep D20, it's a necessary consequence that ranged combat looks weird. Personally, I don't care about it. This isn't Rainbow Six, I'm not looking for realistic firefights. I have to agree! The ranged combat looks the way it does because of the D20 rules. Even though it isn't visually pretty you still do fight effectively with ranged weapons. If you think otherwise people, check your games feedback to see what really happened in combat sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I mean, you can't have D20 for melee and then switch to manual aiming for ranged. This isn't Rainbow Six, I'm not looking for realistic firefights. Man, THIS is the reason why I sometimes HATE arguing with you and RedHawke: As soon as someone coplains that the D20 system hasn't been used to it's maximum (which I believe that it isn't) you start jumping to conclusions that that persons wants a FPS system; and then we all go "You're a hypocrite. (from me)" "You are ignorant and you are mindless and all you can come up with is 'it will suck' because you are stupid, and the best thing to do is listen to us, because we know best and we know more than you (from you two)". So next time, think about who is a KOTOR fan and who isn't, you'll figure out soon enough who wants a FPS system and who wants to improve the D20. Sheesh! How so? The ranged combat looks more like a game of childrens static dodgeball to me, rather than a sort of combat. What would you change about ranged combat? Well, for starters, I would examine all of the D20 rules carefully and use them to a maximum to make the combat look more natrual, without breaking any of the rules of that RPG system. And I'm pretty sure that there is surely something that can be done to improve it without hurting the rules. That's all what I can say at any rate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Man, THIS is the reason why I sometimes HATE arguing with you and RedHawke: As soon as someone coplains that the D20 system hasn't been used to it's maximum (which I believe that it isn't) you start jumping to conclusions that that persons wants a FPS system; and then we all go "You're a hypocrite. (from me)" "You are ignorant and you are mindless and all you can come up with is 'it will suck' because you are stupid, and the best thing to do is listen to us, because we know best and we know more than you (from you two)". Here we go again... *Takes a big sniff* You can just smell the drama here! If you truely "HATE" debating with us then why post when we do? Let alone a post like this? So next time, think about who is a KOTOR fan and who isn't, you'll figure out soon enough who wants a FPS system and who wants to improve the D20. Sheesh! Right back at you Vlad... In the future I suggest if you want to discuss things rationally with me you leave your usual "self-persecution" and "drama" out of your posts. OK! Oh and FYI, there is no "used to it's maximum" or "improving" the D20 system as it is reprisented in KOTOR... The ranged combat looks more like a game of childrens static dodgeball to me, rather than a sort of combat. That's the way the combat in D20 looks like... love it or leave it I say! Seriously, the games rules makes movement a no-no as it is a turn based, fantasy RPG system (D&D), so what you seem to want cannot be done whilst using that system, combat movement is limited to closing on your opponent for an attack (Melee)... Or standing still and shooting (Ranged), and forget hitting anything with Ranged weapons if you move, severe attack penalties are incurred by any sort of combat movement when using a ranged weapon, so that is why you stand still to shoot. While visually it looks like "dodgeball" as you put it, that is the way it is. Well, for starters, I would examine all of the D20 rules carefully and use them to a maximum to make the combat look more natrual, without breaking any of the rules of that RPG system. And I'm pretty sure that there is surely something that can be done to improve it without hurting the rules. That's all what I can say at any rate... Sorry to burst your bubble... The D20 system cannot be examined any more as the rules are reprisented carefully, and accurately by the game, this is the problem you have with it actually, it is a faithful reprisentation of PnP RPG combat using the D20 game system... so I'm sorry but what you want isn't going to happen in this game series! But if there is another RPG set in Star Wars after the KOTOR trilogy is completed, I hope they use the D6 RPG system instead, combat at least would be more to your liking. Come to think of it, it would be more to my liking as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Merlow Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 keep D20, such a major change i think would ruin the experience when playing 1 after the other when it does finally come out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Man, THIS is the reason why I sometimes HATE arguing with you and RedHawke: As soon as someone coplains that the D20 system hasn't been used to it's maximum (which I believe that it isn't) you start jumping to conclusions that that persons wants a FPS system; and then we all go "You're a hypocrite. (from me)" "You are ignorant and you are mindless and all you can come up with is 'it will suck' because you are stupid, and the best thing to do is listen to us, because we know best and we know more than you (from you two)".That is not what they are doing. You don't need to be overdramatic. If you hate debating with them, move onto another thread. No harm, no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobQel-Droma Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I don't mind the look of the D20 combat system, it looks fine to me. Perhaps you could have a little improvement, but I don't really know much about RPGs so I would know or care. Keep it the way it is! Just like keeping the Ebon Hawk along with HK-47 and T3-M3! I didn't mind the ranged system, I thought it was fine. When you fight the three dark Jedid on the Star Forge, on the first deck, Carth had Cassus' pistol and a Mandalorian heavy pistol, and he took all three of them out before they even got to me. I love power blast . Does anybody know what "realisted" means? Or is he trying to say "realistic"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Here we go again... *Takes a big sniff* You can just smell the drama here! If you truely "HATE" debating with us then why post when we do? Let alone a post like this? Right back at you Vlad... In the future I suggest if you want to discuss things rationally with me you leave your usual "self-persecution" and "drama" out of your posts. OK! Oh and FYI, there is no "used to it's maximum" or "improving" the D20 system as it is reprisented in KOTOR... That's the way the combat in D20 looks like... love it or leave it I say! Seriously, the games rules makes movement a no-no as it is a turn based, fantasy RPG system (D&D), so what you seem to want cannot be done whilst using that system, combat movement is limited to closing on your opponent for an attack (Melee)... Or standing still and shooting (Ranged), and forget hitting anything with Ranged weapons if you move, severe attack penalties are incurred by any sort of combat movement when using a ranged weapon, so that is why you stand still to shoot. While visually it looks like "dodgeball" as you put it, that is the way it is. Sorry to burst your bubble... The D20 system cannot be examined any more as the rules are reprisented carefully, and accurately by the game, this is the problem you have with it actually, it is a faithful reprisentation of PnP RPG combat using the D20 game system... so I'm sorry but what you want isn't going to happen in this game series! But if there is another RPG set in Star Wars after the KOTOR trilogy is completed, I hope they use the D6 RPG system instead, combat at least would be more to your liking. Come to think of it, it would be more to my liking as well. Am I really that of a bad person? All right... I'll stop posting in this section... (I admit my views are extreme and I apologise for not being fit enough to behave smarter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth333 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Man, THIS is the reason why I sometimes HATE arguing with you and RedHawke: As soon as someone coplains that the D20 system hasn't been used to it's maximum (which I believe that it isn't) you start jumping to conclusions that that persons wants a FPS system; and then we all go "You're a hypocrite. (from me)" "You are ignorant and you are mindless and all you can come up with is 'it will suck' because you are stupid, and the best thing to do is listen to us, because we know best and we know more than you (from you two)". Vlad lighten up and stop over-reacting with melodramatic posts. Nowhere Redhawke's post says this. The boards are for discussion and expressing opinions on different topics and it is exaclty what Redhawke does. You have the right to disagree but don't get like that because someone thinks differently. As for my opinion on the topic, I think they should continue to base it on the d20 system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaSolo Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 The ranged combat looks more like a game of childrens static dodgeball to me, rather than a sort of combat. Well, for starters, I would examine all of the D20 rules carefully and use them to a maximum to make the combat look more natrual, without breaking any of the rules of that RPG system. And I'm pretty sure that there is surely something that can be done to improve it without hurting the rules. That's all what I can say at any rate... I think what you're complaining about has more to do with the graphical animations during the combat scenes rather than the combat system itself. I don't think they can tweak the system itself, but I think they could add a better variety of animations to go along with it so it doesn't look as repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 That's because it's how turn-based RPG really is. Final Fantasy's (and most of Square's RPGs) ranged combat looks even more atrocious. It's wait. Move in. Hit. Move back. The other "RPG" system is the point and click, à la Diablo or Dungeon Siege. Neither game dwelves very deeply into their story. Understandable as the focus is combat alone. In purely technical terms, this would be considered manual aiming. It doesn't fit KotOR however, as no story-driven RPG (that I know), uses such a superficial system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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