Visas Marr Disucssion

[SilverSentinal2]

Hey,

I wanted to start this thread for a fic I'm working on. I've noticed that the majority of Kotorians out there have very negative opinions bout Visas. I can't help wondering why that is? She's beautiful if you overlook the vail, intelligient, an extremely good fighter, and she is easily the best acted character besides Kriea. I've read things where people view her as having no self-esteem at best to a psychotic stalker at worst. Now eveyone is allowed thier own opinions but it seems unfair. Anyway I thought I'd get some thoughts for insperation. Oh and if you use any spoilers tell me how to get passed the white out, its driving me nutters.

[lord ignarn]

Actually I love Visas, I go to Nar Shadda first in order to get her for the party. I don´t think that the people hate Visas, but is just that she doesn´t evolve a lot during the game, she is silent. But we must not forget that she had her planet destroyed and so on, she as a strange relation with the force... She is quite special.

 

For better knowdeledge play the game, gain influence over her and talk to her, and beat Darth Nihilus.

 

For the spoliers, just highlight the white box, and the spoiler will appear in all his splendor.

[FiEND_138]

Hmmmm I haven't really seen any of the negative opinions about Visas. I don't really see any 'self esteem' issues as being a way for people to slam the character, if anything the writers accomplished their goal; her spirit was suppose'd to be broken by Nihilus after all.

 

Yeah, she's one of the better characters in the series IMO.

[Achilles]

I personally don't think that Visas was as fleshed out as she could have been, but that's just me. Overall I think she was just as good and/or valuable as any of the other party members.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Now I like Visas. But you will see some negative opinions from me...

 

I think that she is a pretty good and useful character, but... She creeps me out. I mean her voice, past and especially words are... creepy, not enjoyable to listen to. I don't like having a slave as my companinon, you know. So I tend to turn away from her every once in a while because I can't take that noirness... Even though Max Payne and Lucas Kane are one my favourite game characters (Film-Noir characters... I like sadness).

[SilverSentinal2]

Hi

Thanks for answering, and telling me how to deal with those white-outs. I've beaten the game a million time so I've done Visas' arch I just wat to get peroples thoughts. Anyway thanks again.

[Robb Stark]

I like Visas, and I actually find her voice kinda sexy. It's soft and soothing, even if some of the things that she says are a bit trippy.

 

I share the opinion that her character wasn't fleshed out very well, but I attribute that to her being more introspective due to what she's been through. She was horribly abused by Nihilus and everything she knew before him was destroyed, so it's no wonder that her self-worth is next to nothing. If she plays a major role in your fic then I would recommend writing a lot about what's going through her head because outwardly she's very quiet and doesn't give away enough to maker her tremendously interesting if the story is mostly action and character interaction.

[vince56]

I like Visas, but my core complaint with TSL (other than the last 30 atrocious minutes of the game) is that the characters are all too alike.

 

In KOTOR, you had the old disenfranchised wiseass jedi Jolee, the ex-soldier with demons Carth, the rogue "muscle" in Canderous, the young but talented jedi in Bastilla, the cat-woman Jumanji (har har), and then to top if off, you have HK-47 who is one of my favorite SW characters ever. Mission and Zalbar weren't half-bad either.

 

Those characters were all so different, all had their very distinct personalities, and all made for one hell of cast and story. In TSL, Visas is very similiar to the Handmaiden, who is also very similiar to Atton (once they're all jedi, that is). Atton and Bao-Dur are also very similiar in their skills and fighting abilities. There just isn't a real strong line of difference between the characters like there was in the first game.

 

I still enjoy these characters a lot, but they're just not the same as the ones we were introduced to in KOTOR. Even "Candy the Mandy" and HK-47 aren't as cool as in the first game, even though I love where they took the Mandalore character.

 

Eh, just my $.02.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Visas Marr is easily one of my top five favorite KoTOR characters, I've always liked her character, there was just something oh so very cool and sleek about her that I can't quite put my finger on.

 

And I've always liked her relationship with Nihilus, which I found fascinating. I've always felt that deep down within him, that very last speck of humanity that's nearly gone, loves her (I'm not saying that in a romantic sense), but he's so far fallen that he hates her for making him feel like that, hence the obvious fact that he's physically abusive to her, yet keeps her around.

[SpaceAlex]

I like Visas, but my core complaint with TSL (other than the last 30 atrocious minutes of the game) is that the characters are all too alike.

 

In KOTOR, you had the old disenfranchised wiseass jedi Jolee, the ex-soldier with demons Carth, the rogue "muscle" in Canderous, the young but talented jedi in Bastilla, the cat-woman Jumanji (har har), and then to top if off, you have HK-47 who is one of my favorite SW characters ever. Mission and Zalbar weren't half-bad either.

 

Those characters were all so different, all had their very distinct personalities, and all made for one hell of cast and story. In TSL, Visas is very similiar to the Handmaiden, who is also very similiar to Atton (once they're all jedi, that is). Atton and Bao-Dur are also very similiar in their skills and fighting abilities. There just isn't a real strong line of difference between the characters like there was in the first game.

 

I still enjoy these characters a lot, but they're just not the same as the ones we were introduced to in KOTOR. Even "Candy the Mandy" and HK-47 aren't as cool as in the first game, even though I love where they took the Mandalore character.

 

Eh, just my $.02.

 

 

Canderous really wasn't as interesting in K2 as he was in K1, but that makes sense. I mean what more could he possibly have to tell you. He already told you everything about his past in K1.

 

HK47, on the other hand, was much more interesting in K2. If OE would at least have the time to finish the HK factory, it would have been great.

 

As far as Visas is concerned, she is one of my favourite characters, though it would have been nice if she would have more dialoge. I would like more information about her past, about what she was before Nihilus destroyed her homeworld.

[The Doctor]

Visas was a good character. I wish you could have had more dialogue options with her.

[SilverSentinal2]

Hi

Thanks again for talking in this thread. So far its been interesting to read everyone's thoughts. I was curious to see what you all thought about some questions I have been contemplating for the development of my story.

 

1. How do you think Darth Nihilius made Visas "see" the Galaxy, and what was it she saw?

 

2. How did she survive Katarr? They never did answer that.

 

3. In what ways was she tortured; is rape a possiblity?

[Darth333]

I found Visas rather boring. You could go through her entire dialogue in a few minutes and afterwards she has nothing else to say for the rest of the game other than "my life for yours". Not a bad character but as many other tsl party members she lacks some personality.

[Soogz]

I agree D333. She was very boring, and her dialogue was limited, and unnecessary I think. They could have added a completly more uselful character than her. They could have created a new character with much more use and a much better story, but that's just my opinion.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Hi

3. In what ways was she tortured; is rape a possiblity?

 

I doubt it. Rape is just not Nihilus' style, in fact anything involving direct content seemed to not be the norm for him. That scene where he's choking Visas on the bridge of the Ravager I think is a good indication of the style of abuse she suffered.

[SilverSentinal2]

True Goblin but both Atton and Visas refer to her scars. What sith torture would typically leave scars that obviously were quite humiliating for her. As she makes clear when asked to dance for vogga

[Soogz]

Possibly mental scars? Scars of her planet being destroyed? Force lightning scares? All possibilities.

[SilverSentinal2]

I was refering to physical scars but thanks for the imput. I never play DS so I know very little about sith protocalls. The main things I'm interested in is how she seemed to survive Katarr and the unique master\apprentice relationship she seems to have had with Nihilius. Maybe it's just me but it seems unlikely that his choosing her was an accident. It's too bad they didn't give him actual lines to say. My guess is she is around 22-25 in the game, still fairly young. It seems reasonable to me if you want to break a young woman's will completely that you would attack the two things that are most privet to her; I'm 21 and a girl so I would be most sensitive to my family, body, and sexuallity. Please no derogatory comments this is purely philisophical. I'm not saying Nihilius himself actually assulted her, there were plenty of sith abord the ravenger. But this is just my opinion.

[90SK]

The first conversation with Visas was very involving and cinematic, for me. Sadly, you can't got much further than that, like D333 said. She was a good jedi character, and I used her on Korriban and Dantooine. Her part wasn't pointless, but it could have been fleshed out some more.

[The Doctor]

^ I bet she was in the cut content, but lets not go there.

[TheGreenGoblin]

True Goblin but both Atton and Visas refer to her scars. What sith torture would typically leave scars that obviously were quite humiliating for her. As she makes clear when asked to dance for vogga

 

Well force lightning certainly could cause scarring if done frequently and intensely enough (just ask Palpatine )

 

 

As for Vogga, I've actually never explored that option, what was it she said?

[SilverSentinal2]

Very simply she looks strait at you and says NO!!!

[PoiuyWired]

My guess is she is around 22-25 in the game, still fairly young. It seems reasonable to me if you want to break a young woman's will completely that you would attack the two things that are most privet to her.

 

I'm not saying Nihilius himself actually assulted her, there were plenty of sith abord the ravenger. But this is just my opinion.

 

About the 22-25 thing, I think Visas may be a bit older. Though Miraluka(sp?) seem to live older. Too bad I only know of 3, so no prove here. All we know is that the species survive after the incident, outside of their home planet. There is one as the Ep1-3ish Jedis (EU proven) and one having some contact with a Katarn.

 

I don't see Nihilus being the kind of person(well technically he is just a poor creature in a humanoid shell) who would assult Visas(He himself can't, and his crew are mostly brainless force zombies, and zombie+sex is bad) as a method of slave breaking. Well, that may be Traya's way, but not him. I see it in this way. Visas is basically on a planet which for all she knows she is the sole survivor of a planetary genoside. If that does not break a person, little will. I mean no home, no friends, no family, no... no life. Then you get exposed to that twisted version of force sight, basically brainwashed into a whole new warped ideal of Galaxy Nililism(not a pun), and trained in the force.

 

Sure Nihilus is a cruel bastard, releasing his frustration on the closest living thing that is around him, namely Visas, she is a darn broken subbie slave, a loyal punching bag, and a disposable pet. But that is all life that Visas know. Talking about scars and torture it would probably in the form of forcelightning, chokes and similar form of force power. That, and other scars may even be self inflicted. I really don't see the whole whips/chains/candles/razorblade scene there, despite the tempting juicy idea of Visas on a torture rack its just not likely (well Bastila on the other hand... *cough-cough*).

[Rediy]

Mmmm, Bastila and Visas....

 

I liked Visas, I use her on a lot of missions. As a fighter she is very capable, unfortunately her dialogue seems immature, and undeveloped. Which is really too bad, she had potential to be an AWESOME story, but I feel like it was floundered, waisted. Doesn't change the fact that I still like her, she is definitely my favorite in KOTOR2.

[Robb Stark]

Talking about scars and torture it would probably in the form of forcelightning, chokes and similar form of force power. That, and other scars may even be self inflicted.

 

An interesting thought that. To lose all sense of self-worth to the point that you would physically punish yourself for your perceived failures...almost literally beating your head against the wall. It's certainly not unheard of and would seem to work with Visas's personality profile.

 

We might interpret physical torture as punishment, and we usually associate punishment with failure of some kind. If Nihilus, frequently unleashed his Force powers on Visas out of his own frustration with his progress in destroying the Jedi or the flow of power he felt, then it's possible, perhaps likely, that Visas came to associate such lashings with her master's displeasure with her. Therefore she eventually came to believe that she was doing something wrong almost continually, and in the natural struggle to improve oneself (and make the "punishments" stop) she would punish herself for her self-perceived short-comings even where no such short-comings existed.

 

While acting out one's frustrations on whatever is available does in fact often take the form of sexual abuse or rape in real life, the style/feel of the Star Wars galaxy and the the way Sith Lords are typically imagined make it unlikely that Nihilus either allowed such kind of abuse (touching his apprentice would be an affront to his power) or would have done it himself. In this case we would get the Star Wars equivalent of rape: a male Sith Lord lashing out with DS Force powers on his female underling.

 

In a way, I suppose the Visas/Nihilus relationship could be envisioned as a wife/husband relationship (without the sexual content) where the husband comes home frustrated from work and tries to relieve his frustration by abusing his wife, doing it so often that the wife becomes too scared to leave or challenge him even though her sense of self worth has diminished so much that she feels she would rather die than live another day. While Visas was initially broken by the loss of her world and the vision of the power of death/nothingness that Nihilus showed her, by the time you meet her it seems that she at least to a certain (if not large) extent no longer believes, or is no longer sure she ever believed, in what made her submit to Nihilus in the first place. She hates him, she wants you to defeat him, and yet she lives in fear of what he will do to her when he sees her again.