The Doctor Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Even if it was cut out, it might still be buried somewhere, just blocked off from the rest of the game. I've seen dialogue options in there that I've never seen, no matter what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Okay, I think I may have thought of a reason. Remeber in the RotJ comic when Luke uses a mind trick and it fails on Jabba? Jabba says tricks like that don't work on him, because he is not affected by the human though pattern. Perhaps Bao-Dur's species is very different than humans in terms of thought, and that his mind was simply too alien and different for Kreia to probe into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Well, things like Toydorians and Hutts have natural resistance to mind tricks and mind reads. BUT that means little in this case. For one we know Zabrak does not have such resistance. That and Exile can mine read him ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 That was because the Exile and Bao-Dur knew each other very well, and had been through a lot together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Sure, but I think it's already been answered a couple of times (and not by me). Kreia: The droid cannot be read in such a way - as for the alien who served with you in the war, its thoughts are more difficult, requiring many translations in meaning. Often it is better to read their impulses and images than their spoken thoughts. That is why he is deaf to you - I have found his impulses are cold, like a dead weight, his thoughts are black. I think we all need to reread this . This right here is saying deaf to you; Therefore, you can't hear him. His impulses and thoughts can't be read by her, apparently. Maybe it's because my force is stronger than hers? Anyways, yes, there IS a confrontation between Mandalore and Bao-Dur, but he definately didn't say anything to do with Androids (besides maybe his arm...) and I definately had no influence with Mandalore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Anyways, yes, there IS a confrontation between Mandalore and Bao-Dur, but he definately didn't say anything to do with Androids (besides maybe his arm...) and I definately had no influence with Mandalore. That Android part was a joke by Achilles there GNP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Reading a whole thread before posting helps. Maybe someone should make a picture with that message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 How about this, there is a Force Bond between Bao-dur and the Exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Tin-Foil Hats against the Old Hag!!! Force Bond? Never thought of that. Though in game terms it does not function as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 This isn't about the game though, is it? When you meet the Council they tell you that you form bonds easily and that that is what you have done with your party members. Kreia has not bond with Bao-dur so she can't read him, but you do so you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I don't think so, as she can read the others. Though the bond could indeed explain you reading Bao-Dur, it does not explain why she can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Reading a whole thread before posting helps. Maybe someone should make a picture with that message. I did. Someone said that they couldn't trigger an encounter between Mandalore and Bao-Dur (even though it had already been said that the Android part wasn't true), so I was just confirming that you could indeed get it to happen, and if I'm not mistaken, it happens every time. Besides, I doubt it's a force bond (although it could be possible) and I'd bank more on the matter of Bao-Dur blocking her out. Honestly, though, Kreia's words are easily twisted in so many ways it's hard to really even know what she's saying when she links more than 5 words together. Oh, and not to be a smart *** or anything but... Understanding a whole post and what was meant before posting an accusation helps. Maybe someone should make a picture with that message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Oh, and not to be a smart *** or anything but... Understanding a whole post and what was meant before posting an accusation helps. Maybe someone should make a picture with that message. Or, you could have been clearer by quoting the person. By the way, I can't find this "post" about someone being unable to trigger the dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I don't think so, as she can read the others. Though the bond could indeed explain you reading Bao-Dur, it does not explain why she can't. Yes it does. The others are all human, Kreia can read humans. Bao-dur isn't human, so Kreia can't read him. However you have a bond with Bao-dur, so you can read him. Think of it like Bao-dur being a door with a lock, you have the key, Kreia doesn't. The others are all unlocked doors, so anyone can read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Yes it does. The others are all human, Kreia can read humans. Bao-dur isn't human, so Kreia can't read him. However you have a bond with Bao-dur, so you can read him. Think of it like Bao-dur being a door with a lock, you have the key, Kreia doesn't. The others are all unlocked doors, so anyone can read them. Even Visas? She isn't human and I don't think that with here training, it would be easy to get in. Same with Handmaiden, considering she was probably tarined to resist any kind of mental attacks. There's no indication of Iridonians being able to naturally block out mind invaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 There's no indication of Iridonians being able to naturally block out mind invaders I'm telling you guys, it's the horns! Even Visas? She isn't human and I don't think that with here training, it would be easy to get in. Same with Handmaiden, considering she was probably tarined to resist any kind of mental attacks. Yes, but both Kreia and the Exile can listen to Brianna's and Visas' thoughts. Neither is trying to attack their minds. They are just listening to them. A passive action as opposed to an aggressive action and as such less likely to be noticed. I think the "force bond between Exile and Bao-Dur" hypothesis offered by BattleDog is the most plausible thus far. The Exile and Bao-Dur served together in the Mandalorian Wars and the Exile could very well have formed some sort of connection in the Force that allows the Exile to overcome the differences in mind processes and thus hear Bao-Dur's thoughts. Kreia on the other hand has no previous experience with Bao-Dur that we're aware of and therefore it stands to reason she would not have any Force-related connection to Bao-Dur. It's all good speculation. I searched the TSL dialog files but pretty much found what I expected on this subject: jack squat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I can see the force-bond thing. I'm wondering if it's also because both Exile and Bao-Dur served during the Wars, and because of that they understood each other in a fundamental way that Kreia couldn't. Or, Kreia could just have been her usual cryptic and sometimes disingenuous self again--Exile didn't seem so deaf to Bao-Dur to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 So yeah, Force bond, I think it's the most plausible too, but that still doesn't explain why she can't understand him. He has a way to block her that we don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Or, Kreia could just have been her usual cryptic and sometimes disingenuous self again Ooooo. Yeah. Disingenous. That's an excellent word, Jae. I'm going to make it my word of the day. So yeah, Force bond, I think it's the most plausible too, but that still doesn't explain why she can't understand him. Yeah, not really unless you discount what PoiuyWired said about Zabraks not having mind resistance. I ask instead what evidence do we have that Zabraks don't? We certainly don't have any from the game as Bao-Dur is the only Iridonian character. Hmmm, wait a second. I seem to recall an Iridonian mercenary on Manaan in KotOR that you either persuaded or force persuaded to get info on the missing Selkath youth. I can't remember which right now. Sheeoot, I don't know. Unless we can get more concrete information on the Zabrak species susceptibility to mind reading/mind tricks then the "Exile force bond with Bao-Dur" theory has some holes in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 The mercenary on Manaan is an Iridorian. Not the same with Bao-Dur. It's a common mistake. The only other two Iridorians that come into mind are Darth Maul and that one on the Jedi Council. Both are trained in the Force, so using them as examples of mind resistance isn't too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 The mercenary on Manaan is an Iridorian. Not the same with Bao-Dur. It's a common mistake. Ah, 'tis good to be reminded that I'm human and do make mistakes from time to time, even common ones... The only other two Iridorians that come into mind are Darth Maul and that one on the Jedi Council. Both are trained in the Force, so using them as examples of mind resistance isn't too good. Why is that? Are you saying that someone who is Force sensitive can't have mind resistance? I don't know that one necessarily follows the other although that may be the case for all I know. But maybe that's why we never see any Hutt or Toydarian Jedi, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 You misunderstood me. I meant that since they were trained in the Force, they wouldn't be too good an example of natural resistance. The both surely would have techniques to block out invaders. I know that Bao-Dur is Force Sensitive, but he managed to hide his thoughts before he became a Jedi. The more I think about it, the more I believe that it's actually a wall of strong emotions. Like with Atton, Bao-Dur's feelings provide a shield against intruders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Ooooo. Yeah. Disingenous. That's an excellent word, Jae. I'm going to make it my word of the day. It's so much more concise and diplomatic than saying 'She's lying through her teeth right now to mess with your mind.' Maybe Bao-Dur saw so much death during the Wars that he's walled everyone out, except those he trusts; he trusts Exile, so s/he's able to bond. Atton plays pazaak, Bao-Dur tinkers with machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 The more I think about it, the more I believe that it's actually a wall of strong emotions. Like with Atton, Bao-Dur's feelings provide a shield against intruders. OK. Sounds like a good hypothesis but the problem is still why can the Exile hear Bao-Dur's thoughts and Kreia can't? If Bao-Dur is using his strong emotions to block force sensitives from reading his mind, consciously or not, then why can the Exile listen to his thoughts? Do you suggest that it could be the previous relationship and/or bond that Bao-Dur developed with the Exile during the Mandalorian Wars that allows the Exile to penetrate the wall of strong emotion and hear Bao-Dur's mental machinations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Yeah. His strong emotions would normally block everyone out, sending false signals but the Exile, having a strong bond with Bao-Dur, can somehow read him through his defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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