Jedi Artifacts My Eye...

[Graphic]

Or simple logic that's otherwise blatant in the game?

Not really.

[90SK]

It's common sense. People gossip. Don't expect everyone in to have a crystal clear grasp on the situation just because it's a game. Think realistically.

[StaffSaberist]

Yeah, it's not like KotOR I where it was all black and white, you do this or that, no subtleties involved. KotOR I never lied to you. Guess what? That isn't realistic.

 

Sorry if I sound like a flamer. I'm not.

[RedHawke]

Eh that all sounds like speculating and excuses to me (no flame). Like someone said it's likely a failing of the random item generator.

The Jedi Enclaive ruins has no artifacts left, there is no fault of the random item generator, the whole point to that level is just as a part of your characters journey, to give you motivation, to tease you like with Atris and 'your' saber, and to recruit Mekel (Deciple) for females... They couldn't put sabers and powerful robes in it for easily seen game balance issues. Being you might not have a saber when going into that level, it would botch the whole "Build your saber" quest if they did. And robes, you aren't up to the right character level for those.

 

What is wrong with "speculating and excuses" because OE made TSL have a flair for mystery so you aren't going to have the story elements blatently put to you like in KotOR I, you will have to figure out many of the resons for such things on your own. If you want hard facts telling you why things are that way in the game, then you are in for a heap of disappointment.

[Emperor Devon]

Eh that all sounds like speculating and excuses to me (no flame). Like someone said it's likely a failing of the random item generator.

 

Excuses? Those are facts.

 

Did the Jedi Council arrange for the artifacts on Dantooine to be deported to Telos? Yes. The Handmaidens can tell you that.

 

Did Atris take any holocrons that might have remained? It is rather obvious that she did, since she ordered her Handmaidens to gather as many relics as possible. The Disciple also tells you that some holocrons were taken from Dantooine.

 

Did orbital bombardment destroy most of the enclave? Yes. This is stated multiple times, and in both games. And if a structure is orbitally bombarded, it is quite likely that any items inside will be damaged.

 

Could laigreks have eaten anything? It's possible. Do you think that any artifacts will remain intact with ferocious animals roaming about?

 

Eh that all sounds like speculating and excuses to me (no flame).

 

Next time think a bit for commenting... most reasons I listed for the missing artifacts are facts. Only one is a speculation.

[StaffSaberist]

And robes, you aren't up to the right character level for those.

 

That is the only place where I disagree with you. One time through, I got some reddish Jedi Robes in Slusk's (Telos) office. But that's just the RNG for you.

[RedHawke]

That is the only place where I disagree with you. One time through, I got some reddish Jedi Robes in Slusk's (Telos) office. But that's just the RNG for you.

If they were the Padawan level Robes, those sound like those, they weren't what I was referring to, I was referring to the Knight or Master robes.

[StaffSaberist]

No, it was some robes that were redder than that, and the description, I think, mentioned the Jedi version of a library. I believe you get it no matter what in one of the boxes in Queen Talia's treasure room. At least, I always got it, and three times in a row would have to be a fantastic coinkydink (coincidence). Also, on my DS time through, on Telos I got these God-UGLY Green Pinstripe "Jedi" robes. You can buy robes from Samhan, at least I could once, along with a yellow crystal. You can get interesting things on Telos.

 

Though I never got Knight or Master robes, I got some that appear to have better effects, or at least near-equivalent. I'm starting a new game 'cause the RNG seems to hate me this game, so if I find anything unusually powerful, be it robes, weapons, bands, etc., I'll let you know.

 

Your library robes are likely The Ossus Keeper Robes, and thay are a Padawan level robe. -RH

[BattleDog]

What you guys are missing is that this is an RPG, generally if lots of people say "Go there, you can find some cool stuff," it's usually a good idea. Most of the "facts" which explain the lack of items are just excuses really.

 

Did the Council arrage for the artifacts to be moved to Telos? Almost certainly not, Dantooine was the backup for Telos, by K1 Telos has already been nuked.

 

Did Atris take the holocrons? Yes, but there must have been stuff she couldn't get to, or didn't have the space for, or didn't think was important, or just missed.

 

Did Orbital Bombardment destroy most of the Enclave? No, only what was above ground, below is fully entanct.

 

Laigreks? Only if they eat through duresteel doors.

[Nanda Keon]

Looks like cut content.

 

The question I am asking is, why did they cut things out like that place in nar shadaa docks or perhaps the cool jedi stuff in the enclave?

[RedHawke]

What you guys are missing is that this is an RPG, generally if lots of people say "Go there, you can find some cool stuff," it's usually a good idea.

That is not entirely true...

 

Example: Castle A is rumored to be loaded with treasure, but when you fight all the monsters and get to the vault in Castle A nothing is there. So what is your reward for going into Castle A, well the expirience of course. Expirience is also a form of "treasure" in this instance, along with whatever the monsters have.

 

Most of the "facts" which explain the lack of items are just excuses really.

Excuses? Hardly... There are so many possibilities as to why the place is devoid of good items that I actually have a hard time believing that anyone expected anything exceptional in the ruined sub-level.

 

Another "excuse" or two for you to ponder... If you listen to some of the dialogues on Dantooine, about the salavagers, you find out they didn't just arrive, they have been pillaging for quite some time before the Exile and company shows up, just because the current group of salvagers don't know of anyone who has survived the sub-level does not mean someone hasn't been in there looted it previously. There is that one salvager that sells stuff so people have been taking things before you arrive.

 

After all how did the Deciple get down there? (Note: He is in the rear, in the library mind you!) If he made it, and Vrook made it, why is it impossible for others? Who's to say Vrook didn't look around and stash any stuff as well? Vrook was a Master of that enclaive, he would know where all the juicy stuff was, and he definately would not tell the Exile about anything he found and stashed... Vrook dislikes the Exile.

 

There are legitimate story points to go into the sub-level, recruiting the Deciple, a potential saber part or lightsaber off of the trapped salvager, the salvager will you can alter for more stuff, part of the Vrook quest, plus the expirience from the Laigreks. Quite enough of a reason to go there for me.

 

Though this is enough for me... I guess others have problems with this type of stuff... oh well!

[StaffSaberist]

The question I am asking is, why did they cut things out like that place in nar shadaa docks

 

Your library robes are likely The Ossus Keeper Robes, and thay are a Padawan level robe. -RH

 

Yeah, they were. Oops. But at least I look like a Jedi...

 

Am I the only one who happened to notice that the planets take considerably longer to complete in K2 than K1? It's probably because the designers figured that the game was long enough.

 

Example: Castle A is rumored to be loaded with treasure, but when you fight all the monsters and get to the vault in Castle A nothing is there. So what is your reward for going into Castle A, well the expirience of course. Expirience is also a form of "treasure" in this instance, along with whatever the monsters have.

 

Excuses? Hardly... There are so many possibilities as to why the place is devoid of good items that I actually have a hard time believing that anyone expected anything exceptional in the ruined sub-level.

 

Another "excuse" or two for you to ponder... If you listen to some of the dialogues on Dantooine, about the salavagers, you find out they didn't just arrive, they have been pillaging for quite some time before the Exile and company shows up, just because the current group of salvagers don't know of anyone who has survived the sub-level does not mean someone hasn't been in there looted it previously. There is that one salvager that sells stuff so people have been taking things before you arrive.

 

After all how did the Deciple get down there? (Note: He is in the rear, in the library mind you!) If he made it, and Vrook made it, why is it impossible for others? Who's to say Vrook didn't look around and stash any stuff as well? Vrook was a Master of that enclaive, he would know where all the juicy stuff was, and he definately would not tell the Exile about anything he found and stashed... Vrook dislikes the Exile.

 

There are legitimate story points to go into the sub-level, recruiting the Deciple, a potential saber part or lightsaber off of the trapped salvager, the salvager will you can alter for more stuff, part of the Vrook quest, plus the expirience from the Laigreks. Quite enough of a reason to go there for me.

 

Though this is enough for me... I guess others have problems with this type of stuff... oh well!

 

Exactly. Besides, I'm sure modders have added some treasures in there. I'll go looking for mods like that; that'd be cool!

[BattleDog]

That is not entirely true...

 

Example: Castle A is rumored to be loaded with treasure, but when you fight all the monsters and get to the vault in Castle A nothing is there. So what is your reward for going into Castle A, well the expirience of course. Expirience is also a form of "treasure" in this instance, along with whatever the monsters have.

 

You know you really shouldn't apply a real world concept to an RPG. The fact of the matter is that Obsideon used the random loot generator as a cop out so that they didn't have to manually fill the containers with crystals and robes. I'm sorry but have you noticed how many locked doors and containers there are? Apparently all the jedi had at the end of their beds, in their footlockers, were medpacs and stims. It comes down to this, all the indications point to you finding Jedi specific stuff down there, even if its just basic. What you get is just random rubbish, just like the rest of the game.

[90SK]

How is “fighting monsters in a castle” a real world concept?

 

And I'd love for you to show us some of the "indications" that we haven't already explained. The salvagers gossiping, the laigreks, etc. We've already gone over it.

[Hallucination]

Another thing left out that could explain everything: Malak destroyed the temple, but I doubt he would leave a bunch of artifacts lying around. He almost certainly sent down Sith to take jedi for the SF, get some artifacts, and kill everyone nearby. He might've even gone down there himself and poked around. And maybe fragile things like holocrons and other artifacts got crushed by falling ceilings and big explosions. Or are Jedi buildings laser-bullet proof?

[lukeiamyourdad]

You know you really shouldn't apply a real world concept to an RPG. The fact of the matter is that Obsideon used the random loot generator as a cop out so that they didn't have to manually fill the containers with crystals and robes. I'm sorry but have you noticed how many locked doors and containers there are? Apparently all the jedi had at the end of their beds, in their footlockers, were medpacs and stims. It comes down to this, all the indications point to you finding Jedi specific stuff down there, even if its just basic. What you get is just random rubbish, just like the rest of the game.

 

Actually, your explanation is the sloppy one, basing itself on baseless accusations of cut content and laziness.

 

This is the lower level, it could have been a rather unimportant place compared to the Archives which would probably contain most of the information and items. We did not go into the Archives (I don't think the library is the same thing as the Archives Master Dorak mentionned).

 

Besides, since the place was swarmed with Laigreks and salvagers couldn't explore it, they think that there must be something precious down there.

Also, Dantooine is full of gossiping. Remember those two women when you enter Khoonda? They said something about a rumor that their cousin's gardener saw some Jedi (or something that sounds like that). Everything is rumors and superstition on Dantooine.

[RedHawke]

^^^^

Exactly LIAYD, exactly!

 

Again, there are so many possibilities as to why the place is devoid of good items that I actually have a hard time believing that anyone expected anything exceptional in the ruined sub-level at all.

[BattleDog]

Okay, lets take a step back here:

 

You are basing your argument on: unprovable possibilities of things that could destroy artifacts/reasons why the artifacts were taken away.

 

I am basing my argument on: RPG convention and the fact that TSL shows signs of corner cutting all over the shop.

 

What we know:

 

The Enclave was bombarded, but the sublevel was virtually intact.

 

Although there were other people there before you much of the Enclave was still sealed, even from Lagreiks.

 

Someone, almost certainly Atris, took the holocrons, probably after the Enclave was destroyed.

 

That's all the evidence we have to go on. There are no more facts, just possibilities and opinions. Now to me the sealed ares suggests there should be something, and indeed there is, but none of it is Jedi specific. This leads me to cut content.

 

At the end of the day it can't be proved either way so why don't we just call it an open issue due to lack of evidence.

[mogga]

sounds like a mod for someone to make...

i agree,the 'artifacts' in the enclave are garbage.

[RedHawke]

BattleDog,

 

I do have something to add as there are indeed many more facts in the game... but I only need one.

 

Fact: The Deciple and Vrook both have been in the sub-level before the Exile. Remember the lightsabered corpses in the library, that wasn't the Deciple.

 

The game tells us that the place was looted before even Vrook got there, and he was definately inside the sublevel. From Vrooks game dialog file... 602DAN_dlg.erf/vrook.dlg

 

This threat is striking through the Force. There is a reason that we cannot detect it - it is somehow masking its presence from us.

 

Jedi sanctuaries, places of learning, conclaves - many of them secret, have been attacked.

 

That requires that our enemy knew of our whereabouts - or had access to records and holocrons from the Enclave here on Dantooine.

 

There was much Jedi teaching buried here before the planet was attacked.

 

In the hands of our enemies, such knowledge could be used to track and kill Jedi, find other Enclaves, gathering places.

 

{Tired, worn out}And so much has been plundered from here, that now many secrets of the Jedi have been spread throughout the galaxy.

 

So I did what I could, attempting to let myself be captured. I hoped that it would lead me to the Sith, and the stolen artifacts.

 

The Sith attacked this place once, and only they would seek the death of the Jedi with such obsession - and be able to be as successful as they have.

 

{Sighs}But the destruction of Dantooine - it is difficult to sense the presence of any Force users here. If any Sith are here, I cannot detect them.

 

{Quieter, Vrook is showing his human side - the school where he taught has been torched}Yes... perhaps I wished to see this place one more time - it has changed much, as I knew it had.

 

{Firm}But I had to see it for myself.

 

I'm sorry but this dialogue alone tells me that Vrook indeed had gone through the sub-level, even he didn't find anything, even stuff that was stashed before Dantooine was attacked by the Sith. He states as much, this is the reason he let the Mercs capture him.

 

Evidence enough for me. Why is it so hard to accept that the Enclaive held nothing for us, but the few things/quests we got?

 

In the end I hear many people blaming "cut-content" and "rushed game" for everything they feel is wrong in TSL... and this is just not true.

[Jae Onasi]

Yep, the salvagers whet the appetite but never guarantee there's anything still there. Nor is there any guarantee that the salvagers are actually telling the truth. It didn't surprise me that there was little there, after all the people who'd been in there already. Still, never hurts to take a look around.

[BattleDog]

BattleDog,

 

I do have something to add as there are indeed many more facts in the game... but I only need one.

 

Fact: The Deciple and Vrook both have been in the sub-level before the Exile. Remember the lightsabered corpses in the library, that wasn't the Deciple.

 

I'm sorry but this dialogue alone tells me that Vrook indeed had gone through the sub-level, even he didn't find anything, even stuff that was stashed before Dantooine was attacked by the Sith. He states as much, this is the reason he let the Mercs capture him.

 

Evidence enough for me. Why is it so hard to accept that the Enclaive held nothing for us, but the few things/quests we got?

 

Why is it so important for you to be right? Yes its true the Diciple and Vrook have both been there before you, yet there are still things locked down, things that no-one has disturbed since the attack. The fact remains that certain parts of the Enclave remain undisturbed, let me clarify here:

 

The areas left undisturbed are the living spaces, I would aggree that the Archives have clearly been sacked but you should still find a few things, basic robes, focusing crystals, maybe a few low level components. In such a situation Bioware would probably have filled all the containers with low level jedi gear, just to help you along. Obsideon used random loot, I call that corner cutting, not cut content.

[90SK]

No one cares what Bioware would have done. They didn't make KotOR II, nor will we likely be seeing them for KotOR III. Obsidian makes the KotOR series now, and obsidian didn't have time to create unique items and placeables just to appease fan's lust for a host of artifacts that probably shouldn't be there to begin with, given the evidence against it.

[Emperor Devon]

Obsideon used random loot, I call that corner cutting, not cut content.

 

Whether it was random loot or not, it was more realistic than finding a treasure trove of artifacts. There are simply so many reasons for why there are no artifacts there, and it's a wonder you're still denying it. The Jedi arranged for many artifacts to be shipped off to Telos before the attack. The enclave suffered orbital bombardment. Malak himself plundered the ruins. There was a Sith occupation force. Someone (most likely Atris) took even more artifacts. The administrator had her people look through the ruins. Salvagers searched the enclave for several years. People on Dantooine exaggerate things, and are superstitious. A successful group of salvagers took away some salvage. Jorran took what was probably the last worthwhile salvage. How could any artifacts be left after all that?

[RedHawke]

Why is it so important for you to be right?

You post a bunch of baseless nonsense about TSL, and then actually have the nerve to ask me "Why is it so important for you to be right?"... Wow! Just wow!