Darth Vader - Why the hell is he in a Tie

[arkodeon]

Perhaps the fact that Darth Vader was the only one who had a TIE Advanced should be enough to accept that he leads a TIE squadron.

 

Please keep in mind that this movie takes place before and during Star Wars Episode IV, in which we DO see him going out with some random TIE Fighters. Like Lukeiamyourdad said, Darth Vader surely does not spend his whole day in the TIE Fighter, which would account for him, say, being outside of the Hangar bay?

 

Darth Vader Episode IV = TIE Advanced x1.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Darth Vader commanded an Imperial SD squadron (at Tatooine) from the ISD Devastator at the beginning of ep4. Later, he transferred to the DS1, but was NOT in command of it. Grand Moff Tarkin, the man responsible for the DS1's construction, was in command of the DS1. In ep5 Vader is in command of another Imperial squadron, this time from his command ship the SSD Executor. He is seen again on the Executor in ep6, in command of the entire Imperial fleet at Endor (as ordered by Palpatine), before he shuttles over to the DS2 for the last time. The only times Vader was not the overall military commander was when he was on Tarkin's DS or on Palpatine's DS2.

[Heavyarms]

Okay, given Anakin's brash attitude and headstrongedness and consumption with power in all six movies, it's a safe bet that that is not what you want in a commander. He's always acting on his own, so therefore how can he be a useful commander in a SD? If anything, he'd lower its abilities because the crew would keep dying if they screwed up. I think it's safe to say Vader's more like a rabid dog on a leash controlled by the Emperor rather than a smart, calm, and able commander like Thrawn or Piett.

[Lord_Nexus]

Where alot of you go wrong though are that you have to set your opinions regarding the game in the selected GAME Format. The game is set a couple years before ANH. Darth Vader didn't control any single SD to that point. He was like Darth Maul in Ep. 1. Just a sith lord serving the emperor. The SSD however is Vaders flag ship so if the game's timeline was up to ROTJ, then yes Vader is in the wrong ship and should be in the SSD otherwise Vader is right where he should be.

[Admiral Z]

Nexus is right. Darth Vader deserves to be in his TIE. I just don't see him commanding a capital ship. Sorry.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Where alot of you go wrong though are that you have to set your opinions regarding the game in the selected GAME Format. The game is set a couple years before ANH. Darth Vader didn't control any single SD to that point.

Actually, you are incorrect (perhaps twice over). Vader did control an ISD in the couple of years before ep4, and at the time this game begins the TIE/Advanced x1 had not yet been created. The prototype he flies wasn't ready until just a few weeks before the Battle of Yavin. So, if anything, Vader should be in an ISD and not in his TIE in this game. At least if you want to stick to canon.

 

As for Vader's command abilities, Anakin had matured quite a bit under Palpatine's "leash". Vader was the one with the foresight (perhaps Force use) to recognize the potential danger in the Rebel attack on the DS and go fly out to intercept them in his TIE. In ep5 he's also the one to correctly intuit that the Rebels were hiding on Hoth, and he did it solely based his instincts when seeing the power generator image (and not by using the Force).

[lukeiamyourdad]

^^^^

 

Does that even truly matter whether he was in command of an ISD or not?

The bloody image of Vader is linked to the one of the Tie AdvancedX1. How hard is that for people to understand? Do you all believe that regular guy number 1438 actually thinks Vader was in command of a fleet?

No, regular guy 1438 remembers that Vader was flying a special Tie Fighter. Since regular guy 1438 represents most buyers, Vader gets to be in a fighter.

Along with the fact that he's the only Imperial non-EU hero that can be put into a fighter.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Does that even truly matter whether he was in command of an ISD or not?

The bloody image of Vader is linked to the one of the Tie AdvancedX1. How hard is that for people to understand?

Depends on whether you think that an iconic image is more important than accuracy. Simple as that.

 

Speaking of iconic images, which Vader sticks out in people's minds more: the determined, no-nonsense, brutal figure from eps 4-6, or the brash, whiny, and foolish one from eps 1-3?

[TheGreenGoblin]

It is better than the alternative, which is to give the Imperials two hero Star Destroyers Piett/Vader.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Piett shouldn't be given his own personal ISD. He was just another, unremarkable, ISD Captain (one of hundreds) during ep4. Piett didn't rise to any significance until after the first DS was destroyed. He was then transferred from the ISD Accuser to command of the Executor. Peitt's main claim to fame is that he wasn't choked to death by Vader. Hardly a ringing endorsement of whatever skill he might have had. He later died aboard the Executor at Endor. IMO, Piett should be removed from the game and Vader given the Accuser.

[wedge2211]

The number of different, conflicting "canons" quoted in this thread illustrates how absurd this whole argument is. In the movie, he flew a TIE fighter. Empire at War takes place during the timeframe of the movie. 'Nuff said.

 

People associate two ships with Drath Vader, personally: Vader's personal fighter, given the EU designation TIE Advanced X1; and the Super Star Destroyer, which falls outside the timeframe of this game. Besides...can you really imagine him growling, "I have you now!" from the bridge of a Star Destroyer? Let the guy get his hands dirty, he's more fearsome that way.

[Tal Odo-ki]

The number of different, conflicting "canons" quoted in this thread illustrates how absurd this whole argument is. In the movie, he flew a TIE fighter. Empire at War takes place during the timeframe of the movie. 'Nuff said.

Perhaps you need to watch episode IV again. The beginning of the movie starts with a rolling close-up of the ISD Accusor, where soon after you see the Corellian Corvette Tantive IV disabled and tractored into the ISD's main hangar, there to be breached by Imperial Stormtroopers leading the way for ... Lord Darth Vader. The Accusor was Vader's flagship for his Rebel-hunting task force.

 

There is no "conflicting" canon. People either know the canon, or they don't. Unfortunately, too many people who only think they have the facts try to pass along their misinformation. Which is amazing in this age of instant Google answers (for those that are too young to have seen the movie dozens of times since it came out in 1977 and thus memorized every minute of it).

[Darth Alec]

Okay, given Anakin's brash attitude and headstrongedness and consumption with power in all six movies, it's a safe bet that that is not what you want in a commander. He's always acting on his own, so therefore how can he be a useful commander in a SD? If anything, he'd lower its abilities because the crew would keep dying if they screwed up. I think it's safe to say Vader's more like a rabid dog on a leash controlled by the Emperor rather than a smart, calm, and able commander like Thrawn or Piett.

 

*Starts to choke Heavyarms*

 

But still, Vader is assosiated with the Tie advanced X1, and the SSD. Most people don't think much of the first sceen, in the way that vader was in charge, people just don't.

[Darth_Terros]

and at the time this game begins the TIE/Advanced x1 had not yet been created. The prototype he flies wasn't ready until just a few weeks before the Battle of Yavin.

 

Well then he should've been in his Black Jedi Interceptor then?

 

 

Either way Vader will always be out piloting his own starfighter in battle its his preferance in battle and his has mentioned it a few times.

 

The only time we should see Vader in a Stardestroyer is if they implement the SSD but seeing as that thing is huge and would take up most of the map i dont think its going to happen.

[Hobbie911]

Well then he should've been in his Black Jedi Interceptor then?

 

 

Either way Vader will always be out piloting his own starfighter in battle its his preferance in battle and his has mentioned it a few times.

 

The only time we should see Vader in a Stardestroyer is if they implement the SSD but seeing as that thing is huge and would take up most of the map i dont think its going to happen.

 

Owned.

[wedge2211]

Perhaps you need to watch episode IV again. The beginning of the movie starts with a rolling close-up of the ISD Accusor, where soon after you see the Corellian Corvette Tantive IV disabled and tractored into the ISD's main hangar, there to be breached by Imperial Stormtroopers leading the way for ... Lord Darth Vader. The Accusor was Vader's flagship for his Rebel-hunting task force.

So can you tell me where in there Vader was commanding a Star Destroyer in battle? We only see him following--not leading--a boarding party onto another spaceship. For all we know he waited by the boarding hatch the whole time while the Destroyer captain took down the Tantive IV. And that's hardly a battle, anyways.

 

There is no "conflicting" canon. People either know the canon, or they don't. Unfortunately, too many people who only think they have the facts try to pass along their misinformation. Which is amazing in this age of instant Google answers (for those that are too young to have seen the movie dozens of times since it came out in 1977 and thus memorized every minute of it).

No, there are many conflicting sources of information. Many of the people citing these conflicting canons are probably correct, depending on their source. For example, in the Star Wars radio dramatization (which is pretty damn canon!) the Star Destroyer that captures the Tantive IV is actually christened Devastator, rather than Accuser.

[Jan Gaarni]

Yes, the star destroyer we see in the opening scene of ANH is named Devastator.

Always has been, always will be.

 

Did anyone in this thread call it the Accuser?!?

 

EDIT: Oh right, he said it.

[Astrotoy7]

lolz.... The Accuser featured in the Xwing novels mainly, and was never directly commanded by Vader.

 

As Jan mentions, the Devastator is Vader's flagship until the Battle of Yavin.

 

Sound Like Tai needs to go back and read his EU again....the Accuser was part of Vader's fleet(Under Admiral Ozzel and then Admiral Needa's overall command) and was later captured by the New Republic. [/EU Professor]

 

mtfbwya

[lukeiamyourdad]

Depends on whether you think that an iconic image is more important than accuracy. Simple as that.

 

Depends if LA and Petroglyph cares about making good sales...

And apparently, it is accurate to have Vader in a Tie AdvancedX1.

 

Hey, strickly speaking in movie terms, not once has Vader actually directly commanded a ship. As proof, it was Ozzel that decided where and when to get out of hyperspace when moving towards Hoth. Vader just said, go to Hoth. Hardly can anyone give him an actual command role in an ISD in E@W.

 

If we base ourselves only on the movie and not EU (because people will recognize it more, EU only filling gameplay holes), Vader only ever fought in space with his Tie Advanced.

 

Speaking of iconic images, which Vader sticks out in people's minds more: the determined, no-nonsense, brutal figure from eps 4-6, or the brash, whiny, and foolish one from eps 1-3?

 

Hmmm, you really must not have been around for the last 29 years...

 

Not even a contest...

[Heavyarms]

determined, no nonsense, and brutal, whiny, brash, and foolish all describe Anakin/Vader in every movie (for the most part.) Vader seems pretty brash and foolish in the OT at a variety of different points. And he's certainly brutal and no-nonsense in the prequels.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Hmmm, you really must not have been around for the last 29 years...

From a forum moderator of a corporate-owned site, I'm surprised at the offensiveness of this offhand remark. It's especially galling since I'm quite likely older than you are and have probably seen the movies more times than you have.

[Jan Gaarni]

Alright, let's all just calm down abit.

 

LIAYD, I think you missunderstood what Tal was saying in that quote. That was not a question he needed answered.

[The Death Star]

I prefer Vader in his TIE fighter. It would be pretty boring if he just stood on a star destroyer deck giving commands to his minions in this game. No, he wants to go out there and destroy the rebellion himself. I prefer Vader as the Hands on Space Character that he is.

I think he should have another special, suppose a auto-shot mode. Did you see how his lasers just homed in on his targets in the Death Star trench in Episode IV? well in the game it would increase the accuracy and firepower that he unleashes at the cost of speed and 1 Wingman.

I also think that if Red Squadron starts it's attack run on the Death Star, If you have Vader with you, you should be able to send him down the trench. The game would have a built in Random feature that either:

Lets Vader destroy Red Squadron in the trench

Lets Red Squadron Destroy the Death Star.

[Foshjedi2004]

lukeiamyourdad was answering your question...The Classic Vader was the answer.

 

I agree with Jan though we have to all calm down.

[Renown]

Sorry, one way or another, I don't see any evidence proving to why he should be in a tie fighter here.

 

This is just fanboyish comments saying "ouu, Vader = Tie Prototype = Iconic = he needs it"

 

Thats your personal opinion. Now, if George Lucas was to come down here and say that, I'd say ok. Since he created it... but, I still would not attribute Vader = Tie Prototype..

 

Many comments have been how Vader isn't an actual commander of a Star Destroyer (which is completely oblivious to the argument I was making - I didn't want him as a PIETT I SAY AGAIN, MORE OF A TARKIN).

 

Obviously many of you guys have no idea how an actual fleet structure works. The overall commander desires something, and tell's his subordinated to do it, I.e. - Go to Hoth, or.. ohh.. as in real times.. sail throught the strait of Hormuz.

 

I'm a military historian, and am very much interested in the naval history of specifically the Napoleonic era. (Still know a sufficient amount of WW1/WW2 info). He was in overall command whenever he was on a star destroyer. Of the entire fleet. (Though - the novels say he faced much resistance in the beginning of his career as Darth Vader)

 

When the Galactic Civil War raged across the Empire, Darth Vader was tasked with discovering the location of the Rebel Alliance's secret base. Vader captured Rebel operative Princess Leia Organa and had her tortured to reveal the location of the hidden fortress. Vader also sought technical plans stolen by the Rebels. These plans carried the complete schematics of the Empire's most powerful weapon, the Death Star battle station. When a rescue team successfully liberated the princess, Vader found himself face to face with his former master, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Vader defeated the aged Jedi Knight in a lightsaber duel.

 

Using the stolen plans to pinpoint the Death Star's weakness, Rebel forces launched a starfighter attack on the station. Entering the battle, Vader piloted his own specially modified fighter. He managed to destroy the most Rebel pilots in the battle, but was forced out of the conflict when his own vessel was crippled by the Millennium Falcon.

 

Three years after the destruction of the Death Star, Vader led an elite squadron of Star Destroyers headed by his flagship, the Super Star Destroyer Executor. He was to seek out and capture the Rebels responsible for the Death Star's demise. Eventually, Vader tracked the Rebels down to the ice-world of Hoth. There, he launched a ground attack destroying the base. His quarry, the Millennium Falcon, escaped.

 

During the Hoth campaign, the Emperor commanded Vader to track down the "son of Skywalker," and have Vader turn him to the dark side of the Force. Vader planned to use Skywalker's friends as bait to lure him into a trap. He hired a motley gang of bounty hunters to track down the Falcon, and drew Luke to Bespin's Cloud City. He and Luke clashed in a lightsaber duel that Vader won by ruthlessly severing Luke's sword-hand. Vader then revealed to the broken young Jedi that he was his father, and that they would rule the galaxy as father and son. Luke refused to succumb to the dark side, and escaped his father. Vader was left empty-handed.

 

After these incidents, Palpatine reassigned Vader from the Imperial fleet, and instead put him in charge of overseeing the new Death Star operation. The Emperor began to distrust his once loyal servant. Vader's contact with his son sparked something within him, something the Emperor did not like.

- Taken from http://www.starwars.com

 

Just in case you guys 'forgot' those. "Reassigned Vader from the Imperial Fleet", or.. "Led an Elite Squadron of..."

 

Apparently, hmm, he was only involved in one tie battle in the movies. How odd? Despite being placed in charge of the the fleet, we have him in a tie fighter?

 

I don't deny that he should fly the Prototype Fighter - but I think, only in the case of where Red Squardon is on the field. The rest of the time he should be stationed aboard the MOST POWERFUL ship in the fleet. Like Tarkin.. again, sigh.. I feel however, that I will now be bombarded by "ouu he's l33t and needs his fighter" or.. "When I was your age, all I noticed was his fighter". I really don't care which is more iconic. He spent his time aboard SD's, he was one of the most powerful men in the empire. He would not have flown into battle in a fighter every time, thats ridiculous, give him more credit then that.

 

The best argument against me would be the time frame - which is pretty sketchy since the area between 3-4 is the least documented.

 

Still - according to the latest novel he was had a lot to impress upon the Imperial fleet (the officers felt threatened by his rise). I would take that to mean that he would spend more time with them, on a ship, then flying about and possibly get destroyed by friendly fire (they tried to assassinate him once.) . Still - if you think Vader was really stupid enough to give them that opportunity every time in battle, I suppose thats your right. Then... I would ask for this post to be MOVED BACK to the mod forum where i initially wanted it, and have someone mod Vader as a Tarkin style character. I didn't want a discussion, because I hate having to argue with people - its unproductive and wastes an unholy amount of my time. Instead, give me what I want. (Very demanding I know, how dare I, but... I would be speaking in kinder terms if I was speaking to someone who could offer a solution to my problems, and not more bickering).