What MI game ruined the series?

[Gabez]

And what happened to Elaine's husband?

Was Elaine married in Monkey Island 1?

[Ben31]

Ben you said "Am i right in thinking that the basis for your hate (if you can call it that) for Largo LaGrande stems from his inability to understand the English language as fully as other members?"

 

Like Joshi said, i've never said anything bad against you really, actually, i was defending you. So i don't know why you deciding to pick up on my grammer. As it happens, i don't mind - infact, it's good that the worst thing you could comment on me was my lack of upper case usage on my letter I's. Of which, i know i am doing.

 

Then how is Monkey Island 2 better? You enter the story being stuck on Scabb Island. How did Guybrush get there? Why hasn't he got a ship and has to charter one to get off the island?

 

I think the problem between MI2 and MI3 is that it was left as a cliff-hanger unlike between MI1 and MI2. There was no story needed to explain between the first two - and so it didn't need to continue exactly where it left off. We knew he was off treasure huntin' the biggest treasure of them all and that was enough. This hunt brought him to Scabb island. Now it's hard for me to comment since i'm not sure how CoMI continues from LR..

[Joshi]

Was Elaine married in Monkey Island 1?

 

It was really just a joke line, Guybrush says something mildly humorous right at the end (it's an optional message but I can't for the life of me remember which one) and Elaine comments something along the lines of "That's funny, I'll have to tell my husband that one."

 

It's a throwaway joke really, I just thought I'd mention it.

[Largo LaGrande]

Like Joshi said, i've never said anything bad against you really, actually, i was defending you. So i don't know why you deciding to pick up on my grammer. As it happens, i don't mind - infact, it's good that the worst thing you could comment on me was my lack of upper case usage on my letter I's. Of which, i know i am doing.

 

 

 

I think the problem between MI2 and MI3 is that it was left as a cliff-hanger unlike between MI1 and MI2. There was no story needed to explain between the first two - and so it didn't need to continue exactly where it left off. We knew he was off treasure huntin' the biggest treasure of them all and that was enough. This hunt brought him to Scabb island. Now it's hard for me to comment since i'm not sure how CoMI continues from LR..

I don’t normally pick people up on grammar I only interested in talking about Monkey Island. But I felt I had to make a point that none of us have perfect grammar because other users were picking on my grammar and diverting from talking about Monkey Island and I think this post of yours is a good post with lots to discuss and I don’t like to see a good post ruined by attention seekers.

 

Anyway Ben back to the subject yea I do agree the ending between MI1 and MI2 was easier to continue off from and it worked well. The cliff hanger ending that MI2 left MI3 to explain was a lot more difficult and one way or another they are going to have to explain what happened.

 

But the main reason I was disappointed was because the lead designers for MI3 were trying to appeal to bran new MI gamers instead of all of us guys who played it from the start.

 

They decided and that if they were to make MI3 appeal to new gamers they would have to continue the story in a way were they don’t have to fully explain what happened because new gamers wouldn’t have played MI1 and MI2. They did explain what happened but it was not the way I was hopping for.

 

I was hoping for the game to continue from the fair because they did not from or explain what happened after they came out of the ride and walked off, it would have been amazing to continue the game from there. Slightly off the point I didn’t think they needed to change the game graphically because in MI1 and MI2 the graphics were awesome. I didn’t want them to go all high tech Graphics for MI3. Because MI1 and MI2 are my favorite games and still look good now and myself and a lot of people prefer the look of MI1 and MI2 to any of the other games in the series. Anyway that’s a whole new subject .

[Ben31]

Slightly off the point I didn’t think they needed to change the game graphically because in MI1 and MI2 the graphics were awesome. I didn’t want them to go all high tech Graphics for MI3. Because MI1 and MI2 are my favorite games and still look good now and myself and a lot of people prefer the look of MI1 and MI2 to any of the other games in the series. Anyway that’s a whole new subject .

 

Maybe more evidence of them trying to appeal to brand new customers?

[Scummbuddy]

It was really just a joke line, Guybrush says something mildly humorous right at the end (it's an optional message but I can't for the life of me remember which one) and Elaine comments something along the lines of "That's funny, I'll have to tell my husband that one."

 

It's a throwaway joke really, I just thought I'd mention it.

 

 

I remember that and it bugged the hell out of me. It's at the end of MI1 when they're watching LeChuck blow up and through the dialog tree you can arrive at her saying that.

[Alien426]

But I felt I had to make a point that none of us have perfect grammar because other users were picking on my grammar

No one ever said the grammar should be perfect. People... okay, I... said that you don't make yourself very clear. That it's very hard to understand what you want to say because you're so incoherent.

 

I didn’t want them to go all high tech Graphics for MI3.

It's not really very high-tech. They upped the resolution, added more animations. Other than that the most apparent difference is the art style. But even though I didn't like the idea of a comic style Monkey Island, I think it was coming towards that for some time. In MI you had pretty natural portraits. In Monkey Island 2 the cartoony style was already more apparent. Even away from close-ups there were some pretty burlesque noses. When they switched to 640x480 they had to decide which direction to take since even the normal characters had enough size to them to show some detail. When CMI was released I thought it looked great and felt very much like the others.

[Largo LaGrande]

Hi Ben you wanted to see for yourself the interview in which the lead designers of MI3 Larry Ahern and Jonathan Ackley said they designed MI3 so it would appeal to new gamers and they explain that the beginning to MI3 and the story for MI3 was designed so that new gamers that have not played MI1 and MI2 could understand it.

Go here for that interview http://www.scummbar.com/resources/articles/index.php?newssniffer=readarticle&article=1036

[Alien426]

Swing and... miss!

[Joshi]

It wasn't really a problem for us, but at the same time we didn't want to ignore what had happened at the end of Monkey 2. So without giving too much away, Curse starts with Guybrush not being fully aware of what's happened himself, although he thinks it's got something to do with some kind of voodoo curse. Hopefully, as you play the game you'll slowly start to figure out what happened, but in a very subtle way. The idea is that for people who haven't played Monkey 1 and 2, or haven't played them in a while, things will still become clear, but at the same time you'll be able to skip past them if you want to.

 

So, basically, it was explained. Well, it was for me anyway.

 

Largo, you seem to be annoyed by the fact that it wasn't explained for you right at the beginning, but instead at the end.

 

As for the whole "new gamers" angle, well, if they actually wanted to make a profit, it'd have to appeal to new gamers. The Monkey Island fan base alone (at the time of COMI's release, and even now) wouldn't have been enough to gain any kind of profit on the game (hell, they'd have lost money if it'd been designed only for MI fans with the same graphics) and MI4 definately wouldn't have been made had it not been for the success of COMI.

[Largo LaGrande]

I was disappointed I think if they could have started MI3 exactly were MI2 ended at the fair with the same graphical look and let us play through the game from there it would have been excellent.

 

They should not have not give a dam about the new gamers not understanding what was happening because if the new gamers did not understand MI3 because they have not played MI1 and MI2 they can always play MI1 and MI2 first so they do understand it and with MI1 and MI2 been excellent it would be enjoyable to do.

 

If I was the Lead designer and it was about trying not to loose money I would have made MI3 and MI4 with the same design as MI1 and MI2 maybe I would make it a little more polished graphically maybe not because MI1 and MI2 they still look amazing.

 

But other than that like the old saying goes if it isn’t broke don’t fix it. They should have made MI3 and MI4 for the true MI fans that played MI1 and MI2 back then and still do today. And not made MI3 and MI4 to appeal to those that have over looked or never played it. The reason that MI3 and MI4 have not been as good as MI1 and MI2 is because Lucas arts started to tinker with the series for MI3 and MI4.

 

Lucasarts should have been selfish and made MI3 and MI4 solely for the true MI fans that played MI1 and MI2 back then and still do today. I don’t think they would have lost money because there are lots of true MI Fans.

 

And even if Lucas games would have lost money making MI3 and MI4 solely for the true MI fans that played MI1 and MI2 it is not like they need it they are still milking the Starwars series with hordes of spin off and mmorg games to this day. They should have given a little back to the fans that bought MI to make it famous thats what I think anyway what about you guys and gals:).

[Thrik]

I think you're leaving in a dream world, Largo. You have to remember that LucasArts isn't an idealistic wonderland that exists solely to satisfy the childhood memories of a bunch of people, but to make money. That's why they cancelled Sam & Max 2 — because they didn't think it'd do the trick. It's harsh, but it's the cruel reality of the world.

 

Not only did MI3 and MI4 do a great job of introducing people to the series (who then were able to check out the earlier titles for some backstory), but they were very good games in the eyes of many — especially MI3. I'm not quite sure if you're yet grasping this, but a lot of people really liked MI3; they wouldn't have wanted it to be different, as it is a classic.

 

I think the results of this poll, where you are the only person to have voted against MI3, speak for themselves on how we stand. MI3 continued the storyline in a way that pretty much everybody but you seemed to be perfectly happy with. Just accept that. Please.

[Alien426]

Times are a'changing. What might have been bought by very hardcore fans (those who visit here, for example) would have been dismissed by most other gamers. Based on the resolution alone. The Dig was released in 1995 and was already criticized by some reviews for only having VGA. Adventures from 1997 mostly had SVGA graphics and that trend was certainly a good one. Ask any gamer if he wants four times the graphical detail and he will of course go for it.

 

They shouldnt have not give a dam about the new gamers not understanding what was happening because if they did not understand MI3 because they havent played MI1 and MI2 they can always play MI1 and MI2 first so they do understand it and with MI1 and MI2 been excellent it would be enjoyable to do.

They would have been stupid to do that. That is like giving money away. On top of that money they should have given away MI1 and MI2 for free? And the time to make them run properly on Win95/98? Not gonna happen. 'True fans'? Not even enough of them to pay for the music and sound, I guess.

 

They did what was feasible. You don't ask Joss Whedon to give the Firefly DVDs away so people can enjoy Serenity more. He writes the movie so that even newcomers can understand the story. Hell, that example is bad since they could have watched the series on TV for free.

[counting_pine]

Largo Lagrande:

 

You seem to be implying that 320x200x8 graphics are necessary for a good Monkey Island game. If this is so, you can't have thought much of MI1 and MI2's other qualities.

 

Monkey Island 3 came out in 1997, the era of Windows 95, DirectX and higher resolution graphics. 640x480 minimum. They'd be mad not to upgrade. I am sure that most of the Monkey Island fans would have asked why they didn't.

 

These new graphics necessitated a new style. I'm not sure the Monkey Island 2 style graphics would work well in 640x480. There's just too much detail to work with, no longer can one pixel represent a nose or an eye. The style needs to be upgraded.

So, they went cartoony. Not (D)OTT cartoony, but a more subtle style, that worked perfectly. I don't see how you can look at places like Puerto Pollo, and think they made a bad decision.

 

The new style of graphics not only makes better use of the hardware, but also encourages new people to experience the series. I think it's better to have a game that says "Come, try this game. It's a great game, even if you've never played Monkey Island before. If you like it, check out our back catalogue" than "Go away, this game won't interest you. Only TRUE Monkey Island fans can appreciate it."

 

For the same reason, it is good to have a storyline that doesn't rely too heavily on the end of Monkey Island 2.

As you pointed out, this was six years later. A lot has changed. Ron Gilbert has left LucasArts, and the new team weren't allowed to collaborate with him; computers have improved, a lot; and there's a whole lot of new gamers out there. A lot of those people won't have played the original Monkey Islands. It would be mad to make a game that wouldn't invite these people in.

 

So, the new team take the MI2 ending, work with it as best they can and start a new story, that will appeal to people new to the series, and most of the original Monkey Island fans.

 

It may not have continued seamlessly from the old storyline but it was a good framework for a game and when I look back it it, what I remember best are the game's many interesting characters and the beautifully drawn locations.

 

Overall, I remember the game with fondness, and I conclude that LucasArts succeeded with what they set out to do, which was to make a great game.

 

:)

[Joshi]

Hell, I'd hate to repeat everyone, but I may as well lay down some facts for you.

 

1. The Monkey Island fan base is large, but no where near large enough to allow a game to make a profit if they all bought a copy of a game.

 

2. LucasArts is a company, it's first and foremost aim is to make money, all companies are like this, this is life, get used to it.

 

3. As long as there are games with better graphics out there, that's what gamers will expect. It's all well and good to say that you enjoyed MI1 and 2 when it came out, they had pretty decent graphics for their time, it fit in with what was popular, but 7 years on, when you're dealing with a genre that already has a pretty weak following (adventure gamers), you need to amp it up to allow it to compete in the gaming market. If you don't, you have a sure-fire failure.

 

And as for the whole "They're milking the SW series, they have plenty of money, why not give something back" you again seem to be under the false impression that the LucasArts corporation is run by fluffy bunnies with hearts of gold who love raindrops and cookies and give oatmeal to the hungry boys and girls of the world. This is a corporation, they don't give people things unless they can make money from them, end of story.

 

They did what was feasible. You don't ask Joss Whedon to give the Firefly DVDs away so people can enjoy Serenity more. He writes the movie so that even newcomers can understand the story. Hell, that example is bad since they could have watched the series on TV for free.

 

Unless they really wanted to see... oh, I don't know... all the episodes... maybe even in the right order... possibly at the same time each week. And then Fox blame Wheedon for writing a bad material (I'm guessing, but I don't really like Fox for cancelling the show, so i'll say pretty much what i want about em)

[Ben31]

Ask any gamer if he wants four times the graphical detail and he will of course go for it..

 

Maybe a point to consider is whether infact the move was an upgrade. I'm looking at MI4's graphics and certainly in the characters the graphics are horrible for me. The background isn't as bad for me but can you remember the beautiful art from teh first 2? Especially the second, think back to Scabb Island people!! Anyway, it's not really a topic up for descussion. Anything other than the norm and gamers will turn on it.. this goes for graphics. If the graphics aren't up to the standard they're used to they won't generally give it a fair chance in my experience. And LucasArts is a company. As much as the developers may have wanted to tell a story of a wanabe-pirate, there first aim is to make money. There isn't an argument here so don't bother. They had to change the graphics.

[Peff]

the two first is completely diffrent from the two last. I still think it's all great games, and none of em ruined the serie.

[Alien426]

That's another thing. If Largo has a beef with the rather small changes from MI2 to CMI, how about those from CMI (or MI2 if you want to disregard CMI) to EMI?

3D graphics, controlling with the keyboard instead of point&click, completely different interface and inventory...

[Ben31]

I agree. Although i've only played a demo of MI3, it was a lot less different compared with the 4th.

[Largo LaGrande]

Before this post is eventually closed can I just correct thrik just one more time I did not Vote for Monkey Island 3. I Voted For neither because the Monkey Island Series is not ruined.

 

Ok back to the rest of my friends here are just a few thoughts about what the rest of you guys were saying.

 

The best games in the Monkey Island series for me are without doubt Monkey Island 1 and 2. I still like Monkey Island 3 and Monkey Island 4 there also classics but Monkey Island 3 and Monkey Island 4 for me had a bad design they were designed mainly for new gamers to try and generate more money and the other focus for Monkey Island 3 and Monkey Island 4 was also on better Graphics.

 

I agree Monkey Island 3 was not a massive graphical leap when compared to the Monkey Island 1 and 2 but it was a significant one if you look at the stats. But the bottom line for the reason I think Monkey Island 1 and 2 are so much better is not just nostalgia it’s down to great game play, great characters a great storyline and an ingenious game design and they were so atmospheric. Yes Monkey Island 1 and Monkey Island 2 did have great graphics back then and still do now but the whole reason I still play Monkey Island 1 and 2 today like millions of others is because they are still so much fun to play because of their qualities.

 

Joshi I agree Lucas games are not interested in the gamer they are only interested in making money but making money is not what every company is about and they are not all like this especially the bigger and more sucessful companies.

 

Lucas games created the greatest Adventure games of all time the Monkey Island series, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Manic Mansion, ect. But for me Lucasgames are only big now because of the games they had in the past and because of star wars. In the past Lucas games were interested in creating great games and making huge amounts of money.

 

However now Lucas games is only interested in making money. I have a HND in Management and making money is not the top strategy for a successful business. The first rule is give customers what they want the top strategy is Customer satisfaction= Success and Profit. Lucas games have not released any classic games for many years now. The best games that are made now days are made by bigger and better companies and the big games appear on the Sony Playstation 2 and 3.

 

Lucas games are making more money than they did in the past but because the games they are releasing are nothing more than Star wars MMPOG cash in’s they don’t make half as much money as the bigger companies and even in the MMPOG Lucas games are not the best out there Guild wars is the most popular and most successful MMPOG with gamers. This is because Lucas arts have nothing major to offer the gamers anymore. Sony has the right idea and their main focus has always been all about the gamer they understand as long as you keep the gamers happy you will be a success. I hope Lucas games get back to being a great adventure games developer but with no new Monkey Island games in the works we are still talking about the classic games they made in the past.

[Joshi]

Joshi I agree Lucas games are not interested in the gamer they are only interested in making money but making money is not what every company is about and they are not all like this especially the bigger and more sucessful companies.

 

Um...what?!

 

I have a HND in Management and making money is not the top strategy for a successful business.

 

Ah yes, now I understand what's going on, once again education has gotten in the way of knowledge.

[Alien426]

making money is not the top strategy for a successful business. The first rule is give customers what they want the top strategy is Customer satisfaction= Success and Profit.

Uh-huh. Gamers want free stuff. Give them Lost Coast and they expect Episode One (what a stupid name, btw) to be free, too. I've witnessed it. The more you give them, the more they expect. Demand, really.

 

Lucas games have not released any classic games for many years now.

Again, you are inaccurate. I might go out on a limb and guess you mean "classic games" to be adventures or non-Star-Wars games. But LucasArts does release successful games that might come to be considered classics. Granted, most of them they didn't develop, but none the less there is stuff like KOTOR (2003, definitely is a classic even this early after release), the Jedi Knight series and Empire At War (2006). Certainly big titles.

 

The best games that are made now days are made by bigger and better companies and the big games appear on the Sony Playstation 2 and 3.

Define "best". Certainly a lot of people will have something to say about how good the big names are doing in the gameplay department. There aren't any games appearing on the PlayStation 3. There isn't anything appearing on the PlayStation 3 appart from photos.

 

Lucas games are making more money than they did in the past but because the games they are releasing are nothing more than Star wars MMPOG cash in’s they don’t make half as much money as the bigger companies

Firstly, MMPOG is not an acronym for Massive Multiplayer Online Games. It's MMO or MMOG.

Secondly, you can't just count the subscriptions and compare them. Before you are making money, you have to subtract the costs (server maintenance, game masters, etc.) from your income. The more players, the higher the costs.

 

① Guild wars is the most popular and most successful MMPOG with gamers. This is because Lucas arts have nothing major to offer the gamers anymore. ② Sony has the right idea and their main focus has always been all about the gamer they understand as long as you keep the gamers happy you will be a success. ③ I hope Lucas games get back to being a great adventure games developer but with no new Monkey Island games in the works we are still talking about the classic games they made in the past.

① I don't think Guild Wars is either the most popular or the most successful MMO. Since it has no subscriptions, it isn't listed in the MMOG Charts, but no subscriptions also means no monthly income. Yet, the monthly costs remain. I think most people will agree that WOW is the most successful MMO. And that means popular and financially successful.

② Sony has made Star Wars: Galaxies! Also, Nintendo will fit that description better for some gamers who are not so fixed on Sony as you seem to be.

③ We all hope(d) that. But since most of the creative talent behind our beloved games are not working there anymore, chances are really, really bad that LucasArts will ever make another adventure game. They might publish them. I think a lot of gamers do still associate great adventures with their name. So I see a chance there.

[Largo LaGrande]

Dude I really agree WOW is very popular and very successful WOW is an awesome game but Guild Wars is awesome also and Guild Wars is the most popular and it is the most successful MMORPG at this moment there are more users playing Guild Wars at the moment than any other MMORPG. The main reason for this is that Guild Wars does not charge gamers monthly to play it unlike some MMORPG. I play it and it is a good game however the statistics change weekly between WOW and Guild Wars.

 

These are the questions I want answers to is there going to be Monkey Island 5 and when will we get it also will it be a point and click story game with puzzles, 2D MI1 and MI2 style or 3D or something else.

 

I sure hope there is going to be a Monkey Island 5 and I hope it will be a point and click story game with puzzles 2D MI1 or MI2 style:).

[Joshi]

Answers to your questions. As of yet, Lucasarts have not announced the development of any new Monkey Island games and as far as anyone outside of LucasArts can be sure of, there is no Monkey Island game in production. As far as anyone outside of LucasArts can summize though, there probably will never be an MI5 indevelopment by LucasArts (that's not to say some nice company won't, in the future, buy the rights and make it, but I highly doubt LucasArts will make it, based on their past actions (Full Throttle 2, Sam n Max 2).

 

As for the "MI5 as a point n click with mi1/2 graphics" goes, whilst we'd all love that, nothing short of a fangame would come close as any major or semi-major production company will only be in it for the big bucks and that means 3d Graphics (although judging by Bone and the new Sam n Max game point n click may be an option).

[Ben31]

Why do you people right so much? Just by picking out a few lines it seems you've moved onto MMORPG's (please, where it the "crying" smiley???). Sorry, i know i tend to write a bit too, ignore me... I just am lazy and you'd probably be best to delete this. Dunno why i wrote it.