Exile Female (CANON)

[Thaeos]

I have to say that the Jedi Exile will always be DS for me, and I believe that is the best option in terms of story. However while I usually play Revan as a DSM it doesn't matter to me as much if the 'official' version is LS, as both are gratifying experiences and have excellent stories, even if I prefer killing all those damn Rakata, just because I can ...

[Sir Vougalot]

Personally, I don't like this because: 1. The love quests. Brianna is so much cooler than Mical. 2. The bond between Kreia and the exile. It just seems more natural if he is a male, given the way she talks to him.

 

Lucas Film obviously made this decision to throw some variaty back into the games. Of the three customizable characters--Reven, the exile and Jaden Korr--they needed to make at least one female, because they had all been male up till now. Personally, I think it should've been Jaden, because the female voice actor is so much better than her losy male counterpart. (And she was played by Jennifer Hale--Bastila--for crying out loud!)

[Jae Onasi]

Lol... Go Jesus!

 

Wow. You must have not slept for days.

 

Me+insomnia+caffeine=unique outcomes

 

I'm going to give 'canon' the appropriate attention it deserves, which means turning on the computer, sitting back in my chair and propping up my feet, making sure I have coffee and/or diet Pepsi along with something decadent like a slice of Giordano's stuffed crust sausage pizza (the hamburger version is also fabulous for the non-pork folks) and/or some homemade brownies, and popping in my CD to play whatever version of Exile/Revan happens to be in the latest savegame.

And if someone tries to tell me that a certain version of Exile or Revan is _the_ only way to play because of 'canon' and that I'm wrong to do it any other way, I'll tell them, very politely and respectfully of course, to p*ss off.

[Sir Vougalot]

Yeah, I kind of like it better with their genders and Force affiliation being a mystery, rather than one version being canonical and all the others being apocryphal. That was kind of the point of these games: we don't know the true identities of these characters or the outcome of their lives.

 

Damn you, Leland Chin!

[Char Ell]

I've never had any problem thinking of Revan or the Exile in any of the possible permutations. It's just a role-playing game where I get to play the character in any way I want, and I play it in all the different ways. I couldn't imagine wanting to play it only one way. That's the great thing about RPG's. You can live the experience different ways.

I couldn't agree more.

 

The point I wanted to make though is that while this approach works for the game itself the concept becomes much more challenging and/or confusing when trying to use it in novels, comic books, etc. Hence my belief that it would be better for LucasCo. to avoid extensive use of Revan and the Exile in reading publications, or specifically use that locks the characters into a gender and/or alignment. However this doesn't seem to be what LucasCo. is doing.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, I think it has more to do with the non-PC characters really. Even if you assume Revan/Exile does not do any romance and does not kill any of them unless necessary, there is womewhat a ndde to conclude their general fate. Obviously we can always count on the "no body" theory to let characters survive, or some freak luck (Boba Style) But some kind of fuideline for the era is needed. I don think Male/Female matters in this case(since even with Revan it seems the non Romance way is chosen), but DS/LS difference does matter.

 

Obvious things that would interfere with the history include how republic - starforge battle ends up, and such, and in this aspact Exile makes less of a difference (And I am not going to do any Mical scumbag complain here).

 

Now, for the fun part. Would kotor3 PC be the spawnling of Revan and Exile??

[Point Man]

...it would be better for LucasCo. to avoid extensive use of Revan and the Exile in reading publications:indif:

I agree. I want The Kotor characters to stay in the games. However, I can see that with the voracious appetites for new material that StarWarsPhreaks have, it is a gold mine waiting to be harvested. Money will dictate that the books get written.

[Swinneh]

i always saw the exile as male, seeing as in all the promo advertisements and in the manual its the skinhead guy, just mad sense, but now female exile.. hmmm, i dunno, not being sexist but male jedi usually are better storywise.

 

I suppose it would be refreshing that theres a female jedi tho, but the fact that the whole jedi order from kotor2 to the films was built by the exile, she/he's a huge charecter.

 

Ive always wonderd which class fits the storyline the best, im pretty sure the storyline is bias towards a light side jedi, but im never sure if the exile was a weapon master or jedi master. It would make sense to be a jedi master because of her strong force bonds, that would indicate a high ifinity with the feeling side of the force rather than dueling, being able to feed of others force powers just seems the kind of thing a jedi master would do. Also rebuilding the order would seem best assigned to a jedi master. Also she/he was a general away from the battlefield, in a ship above the planets with bao dur as far as we known, so again, not big on the action.

 

Then again, the game seems to lean towards the lightsaber style of fighting, especially as when you become a 'jedi master' in the games turning point, you get force enlightenment, which grants you the 3 main lightsaber duling powers.

 

throughout star wars tho ive found that the jedi use lightsabers, and the sith rely more on force powers, maybe its just me.

 

What does everyone else think? Im not asking which you prefer, but which you think fits the story more

 

p.s sorry for long rant, i know its an rpg and its up to the player what goes, i just like to picture how the whole story went down

[Jediphile]

I actually agree that we need more female jedi protagonists. I just don't think the Exile should be one, because the male Exile's story is simply stronger IMHO. I mean, which is the better story - Mical's story of leaving the order and dealing with his feelings for the female Exile or Brianna's "betrayal" of her duties to Atris, as they both struggle for the Exile's heart? I definitely liked Brianna's story best, and with a female Exile, it just doesn't exist.

 

One thing I also really hate in the female Exile's story is how Sion goes from being a scary, powerful sith lord (in the male story) to being a love-sick little puppy-dog who lusts after the female Exile like a 13-year old boy, completely devastating his dark and sinister image

[jedi3112]

Several things to say about this really.

 

First, it's a wiki, a completely unreliable source.

 

Second, there's no such thing as a canon Revan or canon Exile, at least not for Star Wars. They don't appear in the movies and as such are not canon. They are also in absolutely NO way relevant to the movies.

 

Third, IF you regard KOTOR as a seperate series, the games itself would be canon and everything that can happen in the games is therefore canon as well, leaving us with several Revans and Exiles. As well as several histories.

[Sir Vougalot]

I'm sorry, Jedi3112, but you are wrong.

 

Firstly, the source is not the Wiki. They just backed it up. The source comes from The New Essential Guide to Droids, wherein HK-47's and T3-M4's articles refer to the Exile as "she," "her" and a "heroine."

 

Yes, there is such a thing as a canon Revan and a canon Exile. The Holocron Community accepts them on the same level as the rest of the EU. Just like George Lucas accepts the EU as factual, and even praised KOTOR I and II as having really happened.

 

No, there is only one canonical version of Reven, the Exile and Jaden, which Lucas Film's Holocron Community has chosen. Apparently, they choose one gender, one allignment and one ending as canonical, while the rest are considered apocryphal. (One of the earliest examples of a noncanonical ending is the dark side ending to Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.)

 

 

Other than that, someone mentioned that there should be at least one canonical female character based on a customizable game character. For reasons stated above, I believe that it should not have been the Exile. I think it should have been Jaden Korr. The female voice actress was infinitely better than the male voice actor. (She was Jennifer Hale--Bastila Shan--for crying out loud!)

[jedi3112]

I'm sorry, Jedi3112, but you are wrong.

 

You will find that it is YOU who are mistaken.

 

Firstly, the source is not the Wiki. They just backed it up. The source comes from The New Essential Guide to Droids, wherein HK-47's and T3-M4's articles refer to the Exile as "she," "her" and a "heroine."

 

The source mentioned is wikipedia, and it may or may not have come from other sources, but IO'm not going to backtrack all of those for reliability. Anyway, we're not discussing wikipedia's reliability.

 

Yes, there is such a thing as a canon Revan and a canon Exile. The Holocron Community accepts them on the same level as the rest of the EU. Just like George Lucas accepts the EU as factual, and even praised KOTOR I and II as having really happened.

 

That means there is no canon Revan or Exile, no matter what anybody said. If it's not in the movies it's not canon. So unless you can point out a scene where they are relevant, it's not canon.

 

No, there is only one canonical version of Reven, the Exile and Jaden, which Lucas Film's Holocron Community has chosen. Apparently, they choose one gender, one allignment and one ending as canonical, while the rest are considered apocryphal. (One of the earliest examples of a noncanonical ending is the dark side ending to Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.)

 

Those communities do not concern me. As said before there's nothing in the movies to even hint at their existance. Even more so, I seem to remember that the devs picked the time, because nothing you would do would matter at the time of the movies. Even if you destroy the Republic, it wouldn't matter, the Sith Empire has time enough to collapse and another Republic can easily be created at such a time (I think Jolee tells you something like this as well).

[Sir Vougalot]

Oh, I see. You're one of those anti-EU Nazis. There's just no convincing you people.

 

We're not questioning Wikipedia's reliability. I know for a fact that that information comes from The New Essential Guide to Droids, which I have looked at in the mall and have verified that the information is provided therein.

 

Secondly, yes, the EU is not on the same level of canonicity as the movies, (the movies are G-Canon while the EU is C-Canon) however the EU is endorsed and controlled by Lucas Film and George Lucas himself.

 

Whether you choose to accept the EU or not is your perogative, but if you are trying to argue that the KOTOR games are any less canon than the written EU then you are wrong, because Lucas Film accepts it on the same level of C-Canon. Now, you can either choose to be a movie purist--which is fine with me--or you may not. If you are not, however, and do accept the EU as authentic, then disgarding KOTOR is completely unfounded and nonsensical.

 

If you're a movie purist, then what are you doing here? If your accept only the movies as canon, why are you here to argue how noncanonical Reven and the Exile are? If you chose to be a movie purist, then don't dabble in the EU and try to explain certain things away. The big guys at Lucas Film know more about Star Wars chronology than you do.

[Char Ell]

Ahem...

If you're a movie purist, then what are you doing here? If your accept only the movies as canon, why are you here to argue how noncanonical Reven and the Exile are?

Well said, Zerimar Nyliram. I had the same question.

That means there is no canon Revan or Exile, no matter what anybody said. If it's not in the movies it's not canon. So unless you can point out a scene where they are relevant, it's not canon.

Not too sure where your concept of Star Wars canon is coming from but it's definitely not in line with how Lucas Licensing handles the SW universe. The below quote is from the database content administrator for Lucas Licensing's Holocron continuity database.

The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary "S" continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut.

- from http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=152583&start=15

Personally I go with the idea that the games themselves take precedence. Yes, I too read the GOTO, T3, and HK articles in TNEGD where the Exile is referred to using feminine descriptors. Until we get some other C-canon sources that support that though (e.g. future KotOR game, novel, or comic book) I've decided to pretty much ignore TNEGD's articles. I fail to understand why Daniel Wallace found sanction to establish the Exile's gender in a droid guide but used gender-neutral terms in the SW history guide (TNEC) published only a year earlier. Seriously, how lame is that?

[Jae Onasi]

Originally Posted by Tasty Taste a.k.a. Leland Chee

The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary "S" continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut.

- from http://forums.starwars.com/thread.j...152583&start=15

 

I think my 6 degrees of canon was less confusing.

[RedHawke]

Here are the facts though, all the non game writings and the game itself is all C-Level Canon, so it is quite impossible to call Revan 'canonically' Male LS, and The Exile 'canonically' Female LS... as they are the same level of EU canon.

 

So the argument is moot.

 

Source: Prime our very own EU aficionado.

[Davinq]

oh darn, and I was just about to make a point...

Whaddever, here goes:

For the Exile, Female Canon was probably LA's original plan, because (Though it pains me to say it) Brianna's story was pretty hollow compared to Mical's, strengthening my belief.

[Char Ell]

I think my 6 degrees of canon was less confusing.

Your version was most definitely more entertaining.

 

Here are the facts though, all the non game writings and the game itself is all C-Level Canon, so it is quite impossible to call Revan 'canonically' Male LS, and The Exile 'canonically' Female LS... as they are the same level of EU canon.

Sounds like we have a canonical conundrum.

 

not like there aren't a lot of these in the EU...

So the argument is moot.

Whew!

heh-heh-heh.

Oh, 'scuse me for a sec.

***wipes tears from eyes***

I don't mean to be rude but this statement just nailed my funny bone. Anybody remember the SNL skit back in the day where they spoofed Jesse Jackson using the word moot? Good times...

[jedi3112]

I don't buy that whole degrees crap, it's either canon or it's not. Now in SW, the leading party would be the movies, however when writing about KOTOR, the games and all their possibilities are the leading party. There's nothing wrong with EU though, it's just not canon (unless the claim is supported by te movies, wich would make it appear in the movies as well). Therefore it's neither true nor false and it could have happened but at the same time it could not have happened. As such it remains a mystery, or, if you prefer, a legend.

[Jediphile]

KotOR *IS* Expanded Universe! And most stuff released is considered canon, including the comic books and novels. Lots of people consider only the movies to be "real" Star Wars, but as far as Lucasarts is concerned, the New Jedi Order novels and the Tales of the Jedi comic books are just as "genuine" as the movies are - that's why you can see Naga Sadow's attack on Coruscant depicted in Palpatine's office in "Revenge of the Sith".

 

The only things that very clearly are not canon are some of the Star Wars Tales comic books (which has very odd and alternative stories), the Infinities comic books, and the non-canon alternatives in the games.

 

I prefer the male Exile for various reasons, but according Lucasarts, the Exile is now officially female. I think that's a mistake myself. I agree more with those who think that a female jedi protagonist should have been Jaden Korr - made more sense to me, too.

 

For the Exile, Female Canon was probably LA's original plan, because (Though it pains me to say it) Brianna's story was pretty hollow compared to Mical's, strengthening my belief.

 

Mical had a story? I must have missed that, when I played female Exile - all I got was some crummy sob-story about how he felt the need to leave the order after not getting the Exile as the master he loved so much, and which - of course - would never have been a problem in the order... And which made me think of Bruce Willis in "The Kid", when he says, "let's call the WHA-mbulance"...

 

Brianna's story never seemed hollow to me. Quite the contrary.

 

EDIT: Actually, I've been thinking of doing a KotOR2 T-shirt after the Exile's gender was defined. It should read: "I played the canonical female Exile in KotOR2, and all I got was a lousy sob-story from the Disciple"

[Char Ell]

I don't buy that whole degrees crap, it's either canon or it's not.

Indeed. Your SW canon views brought to mind the following:

Darth Vader: If you're not with me, then you are my enemy.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.

I just couldn't resist.

 

It's readily apparent that you have your own unique interpretation of the SW universe, separate and apart from the information the people at Lucas companies (LucasFilm, Lucas Licensing, LucasArts) have provided for the SW fanbase. In essence you're saying there is only the movies (not even G-canon) and everything else doesn't matter. So if George Lucas was quoted saying, "Darth Plagueis was Anakin Skywalker's father." Then I would expect you to respond, "Sorry Georgie. It wasn't in the movies so it's only in your imagination."

 

As for the Exile's gender, I'm still in the camp that supports individual interpretation on that one.

[RobQel-Droma]

Well, I am not going to go back through the whole thread, but I'll just offer my view. I don't really mind the female canon thing, but I have one problem; Mical vs. Brianna.

 

But it doesn't really matter, though, does it? I mean, it's up to your interpretation when you play the game, it's not as if they make you play a female or male because that gender is "canon."

 

There's nothing wrong with EU though, it's just not canon (unless the claim is supported by te movies, wich would make it appear in the movies as well). Therefore it's neither true nor false and it could have happened but at the same time it could not have happened. As such it remains a mystery, or, if you prefer, a legend.

 

Forgive me, but.... that is one of the *stupidest* things I have heard yet. Where in all of the galaxy did you get the idea that EU can not equal canon? Since you go on the point of "if it's not supported by movies it didn't happen but it could have.... it remains a mystery blah blah.... (that makes no sense, by the way)" then where can you back up this view? KOTOR is an LA game, Lucas has mentioned it - how can that make this game not canon at all? Do you have some "higher view" than the rest of us, including GL, or what?

[Davinq]

You're still making no sense jedi3112. I'll use small words so that you'll understand. If it's published by GL, it's canon.

[PoiuyWired]

I think kotor2 REALLY needs to be like kotor1 where you get to kill most of your party members if you go DS. Then you get to remove pervert mike's bodyparts bits by bits wif your trusty red saber as he deserves... Also giving that option to kotor2 would also ensure that lowlife excuse of a sub-sentient won't comeback to ANY future game/story of any form ever again.

[Henz]

Darth Vader: If you're not with me, then you are my enemy.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

hehe How stupidly contradictory.