The Pseudoscience of UFOs

[Windu Chi]

I just saw the movie Outfoxed today, it's a documentary/examination of Rupert Murdoch's "media empire". Besides being funny as hell (Bill O'Reilly needs to take a f***in' pill or something), it also reveals various memos and policies of FOX News regarding it's journalistic integrity (or lack thereof).

 

 

My question: what's your stance on journalism and the integrity of FOX News, or the media in general at this point in time?

 

I just don't trust the media or the goverments of this planet. I think they both lie about 80% est. of the information that they convey to the public in general. I don't trust the media no more then I my experiance on this planet and I surely don't trust anything the goverment have to say be they run by Republicans or Demorecrats.

 

The hate & don't the goverments of this planet because they continue lying about the greatest information to humankind, the existence of life in the galaxy.

 

I am extremely pist off with the media for their lack of vigilance in investigating the f****ing goverment lies about life in the galaxy.

You just don't see any investigations in the ET phenomenon on ABC,BBC,CBS ,CNN,NBC or that bias Fox News which should be called the Republican News channel and of course other media news outlits are suspected of miss information.

 

I believe the media is in lead with the this goverment U.S.A and other goverments on this planet about the miss information campaign about extraterrestrial life.

 

Also to all you people out there who thank that I am a UFO nut or a conspiracy nut. Then I say seeing ,feeling, smelling, tasting or hearing is not always believing.

[SkinWalker]

The hate & don't the goverments of this planet because they continue lying about the greatest information to humankind, the existence of life in the galaxy.

 

I am extremely pist off with the media for their lack of vigilance in investigating the f****ing goverment lies about life in the galaxy.

You just don't see any investigations in the ET phenomenon on ABC,BBC,CBS ,CNN,NBC or that bias Fox News which should be called the Republican News channel and of course other media news outlits are suspected of miss information.

 

I believe the media is in lead with the this goverment U.S.A and other goverments on this planet about the miss information campaign about extraterrestrial life.

 

Also to all you people out there who thank that I am a UFO nut or a conspiracy nut. Then I say seeing ,feeling, smelling, tasting or hearing is not always believing.

 

It might just be that the media doesn't investigate the "ET phenomenon" for the same reason science doesn't investigate it: there's nothing substantial to investigate. There's no evidence, only a bunch of nutbars claiming to be abducted and "probed" or Jethro claiming to see a "craft."

 

Interestingly enough, the availability of cameras has increased significantly in the last 20 years but the frequency of UFO photos has decreased. Reason: there wasn't anything to photograph to begin with.

[Windu Chi]

It might just be that the media doesn't investigate the "ET phenomenon" for the same reason science doesn't investigate it: there's nothing substantial to investigate. There's no evidence, only a bunch of nutbars claiming to be abducted and "probed" or Jethro claiming to see a "craft."

 

Interestingly enough, the availability of cameras has increased significantly in the last 20 years but the frequency of UFO photos has decreased. Reason: there wasn't anything to photograph to begin with.

 

I always hear the claim that if science say it not true then then it can't true ever.

 

This another example of the public ingorance of science and of objective reality.

Science is not always right even when it apparenly seem to be. Some scientists believe ET not to be real because have no evidence of the alien or the spaceship so they believe they have'nt been visting Earth over the past 59 years.

 

This is wrong use of inductive logic, they don't have all the facts to

form a complete conclusion because the major governments of this planet that some of those scientist trust in are carelessly lying & selling miss information to them as well to the public of this planet.

So to this effect the public today trust in science like in the past they trusted in religion,which so I am discussed with.

 

Like for example of the governments cover up when some of the people who do investigate UFOs ask the government of this country and other countries for the evidence on their past UFO investigations the investigators recieve documents that is about that is 80% ink out ,so prove to me there is no cover up sceptic.

My belief is if their is nothing there why ink out most of documents

or at lease be smart enough to not ink out the documents to curtail the belief in a cover up, by replacing the ink out information with false info if don't want

no press about it.

So prove to the public at large sceptic that your government that you strongly believe in and of those scientists who I believe are probably in lead with the goverment miss information campagin are't lying to the the public at large?

 

Also to all you sceptics out there who are convince that the good old government is not lying to its public, I will direct you to watch a program that can viewed on the History Channel called UFO files watch for a episode name ''The Presidents''.

 

Watch that show until the episode get around talking about the idiot Bush and that evil person Cheney where Dick Cheney is ask by a caller on a radio station that was a UFO investigator, about the government evidence on the UFOs his response was," If I was told about it it was probably classified information and I could'nt talk about it.(Dick Cheney).

 

Now prove once again that current government is not out right lying to us sceptics now today about UFOs and ET?

 

Also prove sceptics that the media is not in lead with the government lies? I challenge you sceptics on this, because why are none of those news organisations like CNN,ABC,CBS,PBS,NBC and BBC including other news organisations have not interviewed him when they had Cheney as a "guest" about that radio question he had ask with the response," If I was told about it it was probably classified information and I could'nt talk about it.

 

[SkinWalker]

I always hear the claim that if science say it not true then then it can't true ever.

 

You "hear" wrong or from the wrong people. You should start educating yourself on what science says instead of what people say about what science says.

 

This another example of the public ingorance of science and of objective reality.Science is not always right even when it apparenly seem to be. Some scientists believe ET not to be real because have no evidence of the alien or the spaceship so they believe they have'nt been visting Earth over the past 59 years.

 

This would be an example of ignorance about science. I've met no scientist or read the works of no scientist (and I've met and read quite a few!) that believes what you say. Perhaps you can cite a reference that we can discuss? There are, however, many scientists that find it useless to believe that space-aliens are visiting our planet due to the lack of any evidence. One might as well believe that happy little leprechauns are after one's lucky charms, there's as much testable evidence (none).

 

This is wrong use of inductive logic, they don't have all the facts to form a complete conclusion because the major governments of this planet that some of those scientist trust in are carelessly lying & selling miss information to them as well to the public of this planet. So to this effect the public today trust in science like in the past they trusted in religion,which so I am discussed with.

 

I'm not sure if you're discussed or disgusted, but inductive logic has little to do with the question of space-aliens flying little ships to Earth. The hypothetico-deductive model is useful in attempting to piece together the contexts, forms and functions of artifacts in archaeology or in a forensic investigation, for example. But in the case of UFOs, there simply isn't the initial evidence required to begin the process of induction. Moreover, grand conspiracies of governmental cover ups with regard to UFOs is likewise a fruitless endeavor. For one, there is, again, the problem of evidence, and , two, there's the problem that governments simply aren't good at keeping secrets.

 

As to the public trust in science being religious-like, that would be the public's fault. Either the public educates itself in the sciences or it will have to trust science's word in all matters. This is, indeed, a disgusting proposition. I, for one, have devoted much time and even a bit of money in helping to correct this short-coming in our society.

 

Like for example of the governments cover up when some of the people who do investigate UFOs ask the government of this country and other countries for the evidence on their past UFO investigations the investigators recieve documents that is about that is 80% ink out ,so prove to me there is no cover up sceptic.

 

Let me understand this: you want me to prove a negative. Indeed, you make the unfounded assertion that there is a "cover up" and you want me to disprove it? bullocks. Its your claim, you have to prove it! Don't echo the UFO nutter nonsense about grand conspiracies and cover ups, show the evidence. And if you ask a government for evidence that doesn't exist and they refuse to give it to you, you can't come back and say, "ah-ha!"

 

My belief is if their is nothing there why ink out most of documents or at lease be smart enough to not ink out the documents to curtail the belief in a cover up, by replacing the ink out information with false info if don't want no press about it.

 

This is poor logic and an ignorant understanding of what classified/private information handling means. I've looked at several of the documents that UFO nutbars claim is evidence of a cover up because of the black-out sections, and this proves only that there was information that the releasing authority didn't wish to release. It doesn't suggest that the information was about UFOs or space-aliens. In fact, in any FOIA release, it should be expected that there'll be blacked out sections, sometimes large ones. This is because some information is covered by the privacy act and may involve private, non-governmental parties. Or, it may still be considered secret for diplomatic reasons. In many cases, it might not be a politically good move for a foreign government to be "outed" as it were for having worked with the United States. And so on.

 

So prove to the public at large sceptic that your government that you strongly believe in and of those scientists who I believe are probably in lead with the goverment miss information campagin are't lying to the the public at large?

 

Again, it isn't my burden. It's the burden of the claimant to prove these assertions are true. Moreover, making such an assertion only demonstrates an ignorance of how science works. Scientists are ruthless among each other in holding each other accountable for their claims and discoveries. If the opportunity arose to get the scoop on another scientist with regard to some discovery; to make a lasting name for themselves as another Madam Curie, Newton, or Feynman -then you can bet they wouldn't worry about any loyalty to the government. Finally, many scientists are quite upset with the pseudoscientific attitude that government has and are openly critical about many policy decisions. Hardly the actions of those that are alleged to be "in league with" their government.

 

Also to all you sceptics out there who are convince that the good old government is not lying to its public, I will direct you to watch a program that can viewed on the History Channel called UFO files watch for a episode name ''The Presidents''.

 

Wow. It was on TV. It must be true then, eh? Let me direct you to a good book: A Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, by Carl Sagan. Read that then come to me about your television program.

[Windu Chi]

You "hear" wrong or from the wrong people. You should start educating yourself on what science says instead of what people say about what science says.

 

 

 

This would be an example of ingnorance about science. I've met no scientist or read the works of no scientist (and I've met and read quite a few!) that believes what you say. Perhaps you can cite a reference that we can discuss? There are, however, many scientists that find it useless to believe that space-aliens are visiting our planet due to the lack of any evidence. One might as well believe that happy little leprechans are after one's lucky charms, there's as much testable evidence (none).

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you're discussed or digusted, but inductive logic has little to do with the question of space-aliens flying little ships to Earth. The hypothetico-deductive model is useful in attempting to piece together the contexts, forms and functions of artifacts in archaeology or in a forensic investigation, for example. But in the case of UFOs, there simply isn't the initial evidence required to begin the process of induction. Moreover, grand conspiracies of governmental coverups with regard to UFOs is likewise a fruitless endeavor. For one, there is, again, the problem of evidence, and , two, there's the problem that governments simply aren't good at keeping secrets.

 

As to the public trust in science being religious-like, that would be the public's fault. Either the public educates itself in the sciences or it will have to trust science's word in all matters. This is, indeed, a disgusting proposition. I, for one, have devoted much time and even a bit of money in helping to correct this short-coming in our society.

 

 

 

Let me understand this: you want me to prove a negative. Indeed, you make the unfounded assertion that there is a "cover up" and you want me to disprove it? Bollocks. Its your claim, you have to prove it! Don't echo the UFO nutter nonsense about grand conspiracies and coverups, show the evidence. And if you ask a government for evidence that doesn't exist and they refuse to give it to you, you can't come back and say, "ah-ha!"

 

 

 

This is poor logic and an ignorant understanding of what classified/private information handling means. I've looked at several of the documents that UFO nutbars claim is evidence of a cover up because of the black-out sections, and this proves only that there was information that the releasing authority didn't wish to release. It doesn't suggest that the information was about UFOs or space-aliens. In fact, in any FOIA release, it should be expected that there'll be blacked out sections, sometimes large ones. This is because some information is covered by the privacy act and may involve private, non-governmental parties. Or, it may still be considered secret for diplomatic reasons. In many cases, it might not be a politically good move for a foreign government to be "outed" as it were for having worked with the United States. And so on.

 

 

 

Again, it isn't my burden. It's the burden of the claimant to prove these assertions are true. Moreover, making such an assertion only demonstrates an iignorance of how science works. Scientists are ruthless among each other in holding each other accountable for their claims and discoveries. If the opportunity arose to get the scoop on another scientist with regard to some discovery; to make a lasting name for themselves as another Madam Curie, Newton, or Feynman -then you can bet they wouldn't worry about any loyalty to the government. Finally, many scientists are quite upset with the pseudoscientific attitude that government has and are openly critical about many policy decisions. Hardly the actions of those that are alleged to be "in league with" their government.

 

 

 

Wow. It was on TV. It must be true then, eh? Let me direct you to a good book: A Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, by Carl Sagan. Read that then come to me about your television program.

 

First of all, I have a infinite understanding of science I teach myself science.

 

By the way I did't say I was disgusted with science, I said in religion in which I mean the way some people trust in science for absolute truth in this day of age.

 

Second I don't need to ask any scientists opinions or should I say sceptics opinion, I understand science myself. I have a whole libary of science subjects like, physics biology engineering and tools like mathematics.

 

See this a example of your igorance of science.

 

Why ask for scientists opinions, don't you understand science yourself as you claim. So with that said I don't need to ask for other people opinions, I can try to find the approximate tuth myself.

 

Also there is enought evidence to begin using inductive reasoning the evidence seem to be lacking as you sceptics claim, is because it is being plage by miss direction in the form of the source( the world's governments) influence of the evidence.

 

Also it is you sceptics poor use of logic to form your beliefs, you trust in logic and science so much that you are blinded by the bigger mysteries in the universe that you almost know nothing about. Science can't prove and test everthing, also science can be use to tell lies that is what you sceptics will never understand. Because you are so trap in the box which is science and logic that you can't ever conceive

of thinking whats outside of it.

 

Also if they did'nt want to release no classified info that is'nt related to UFO evidence the why the hell would they not just release the UFO evidence info by iitself instead releasing the ''supposly classified'' info with the evidence relating to their UFO investigations.

 

Also if YOU believe that the government is not good at keeping secrets, then you are a fool and casualty of miss information they have been responsible for the last 59 years. With that said you are lost to your own reality and there is nothing I or anybody can prove to you what is precieve to be true or false.

 

Finaly your comment that because it is seen on TV it must be true,this is another example of your sceptism. I know everything on TV is not real, I don't have the 100% certainy I used to have concerning tv. But if you don't trust some information on TV then may have well not trusted the weather forecast on TV or the news info even if you at the news scene where it is being reported.

[Mike Windu]

Please correct your fallacious argument before continuing.

 

Here is a list of fallacies I've found during my 2 minute skim through your various posts. Please look them up and refrain from using these fallacies in the future.

 

1. Ad hominem

2. Red Herrings

3. Straw men

4. Begging the question

5. Burden of Proof

 

 

Though I believe you are the worst abuser of argumentum ad ignorantiam (appeal to ignorance)

 

And unless you have a degree, anything you say unsupported by fact is just your opinion and cannot be taken as fact. I'm sorry, but your conspiracy theory falls on its face without proof. Why do you need proof? Why do we think "inside the box", as you say? Because it's the fundamental flaw in debating- the need to think logically and supply evidence

 

At the very least read some conspiracy theory books and come back to us.

 

 

Awesomeness provided by WinAce.

 

edit - though I doubt you'll read it, click this link, and read it. It may help you understand the logistics behind a debate.

 

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/GrandIllusion.shtml

[Ray Jones]

XD lol Greatness!

 

 

So, first of all, my question is: What would be the reason for *them* to .. *lie*?

[ET Warrior]

First of all, I have a infinite understanding of science I teach myself science.

You argument (which didn't have much credibility) loses alot more of it with that statement.

 

An infinite understanding? I imagine none of the greatest scientific minds in history would have ever pretended to have an infinite understanding of anything, let alone the entirety of science. But you do because you taught it to yourself?

 

Second I don't need to ask any scientists opinions or should I say sceptics opinion, I understand science myself. I have a whole libary of science subjects like, physics biology engineering and tools like mathematics.

You do of course realize that all of those books you're reading were WRITTEN by those same scientist (sceptics) that you have such disdain for?

 

why the hell would they not just release the UFO evidence info by iitself

Because there is no UFO "evidence".

[SkinWalker]

First of all, I have a infinite understanding of science I teach myself science.

 

It would seem that you need to find a new teacher.

 

I don't need to ask any scientists opinions or should I say sceptics opinion, I understand science myself. I have a whole libary of science subjects like, physics biology engineering and tools like mathematics.

 

You could say skeptics, since skepticism is a very healthy and necessary part of the scientific method. This is some thing that rabid believers in things like UFOs and the paranormal seem not to understand. But if you're going to assert that scientists "believe ET to not be real," then you will need to cite a reference to support that assertion. Indeed, not a single one of your assertions are accompanied by a referenced source.

 

See this a example of your igorance of science.

 

No, sir. This is an example of your own fallacious thinking strategies. An assertion that I've demonstrated by pointing out the lack of support for your arguments.

 

Why ask for scientists opinions, don't you understand science yourself as you claim. So with that said I don't need to ask for other people opinions, I can try to find the approximate tuth myself.

 

"Approximate the truth?" A fool's errand. Moreover, when did I insist on asking the opinions of anyone? I simply want the reference or source that supports the notion that "scientists don't believe in ET" so that we might actually discuss it. I suppose you can say that my suggesting Dr. Sagan's book for you to read is an appeal for you to seek the opinion of a scientist, albeit a very informed one, but you do this any time you read the physics books you allege to possess.

 

Also there is enought evidence to begin using inductive reasoning the evidence seem to be lacking as you sceptics claim, is because it is being plage by miss direction in the form of the source( the world's governments) influence of the evidence.

 

What is the evidence that allows inductive reasoning? What is the evidence that suggests "miss direction" by governments?

 

 

Also it is you sceptics poor use of logic to form your beliefs, you trust in logic and science so much that you are blinded by the bigger mysteries in the universe that you almost know nothing about. Science can't prove and test everthing, also science can be use to tell lies that is what you sceptics will never understand. Because you are so trap in the box which is science and logic that you can't ever conceive of thinking whats outside of it.

 

Again, you're making some assertions that you aren't supporting with sources: lack of logic among the skeptical; blinded by "bigger mysteries"; trapped in a "box"; etc. You are right, however, that science cannot prove or test "everything," nor does it make the claim to be able to. You're also right that science can be used to lie, but dead wrong in assuming that skeptics are not aware of this or understand it, for it is the skeptic that usually uncovers such deception!

 

Also if they did'nt want to release no classified info that is'nt related to UFO evidence the why the hell would they not just release the UFO evidence info by iitself instead releasing the ''supposly classified'' info with the evidence relating to their UFO investigations.

 

Again, there was obviously no "UFO evidence" to be released, so documents that did get released were those documents requested. Its as if you simply aren't aware of the purpose and process of a FOIA request.

 

Also if YOU believe that the government is not good at keeping secrets, then you are a fool and casualty of miss information they have been responsible for the last 59 years. With that said you are lost to your own reality and there is nothing I or anybody can prove to you what is precieve to be true or false.

 

Ah, since you've poisoned the well (another fallacious argument) and set yourself up so that you can back out of a thread that has obviously become too hot for you to handle, I expect that you'll simply drop out of it, patting yourself on the back since there's nothing you or "anybody" can do to change my mind. But before you go, let me just point out that there is: simply reveal the evidence. You've made many assertions that are without a single source let alone evidence. If you want to assert that the government is capable of maintaining secret so big for so long, what is your evidence to support that notion. The counter evidence is Iran-Contra; Watergate; Abu Ghareb; etc., etc.

 

Finaly your comment that because it is seen on TV it must be true,this is another example of your sceptism. I know everything on TV is not real, I don't have the 100% certainy I used to have concerning tv. But if you don't trust some information on TV then may have well not trusted the weather forecast on TV or the news info even if you at the news scene where it is being reported.

 

Ironically, this is the single best point you've made. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that there is hope for you yet. You are absolutely correct that in my casual dismissal of a single television program, I've fallen to the very same fallacies that you've demonstrated in this thread. I'm busted. The truth is, I don't watch much television. I don't have cable -just a couple of rabbit ears- since we don't watch it much, so I wouldn't be able to watch the history channel. Instead, I read books or journals online (Science, Nature, and a variety of anthropological/archaeological journals). However, if you can point me to an online transcript or textual citations used in the program, I'd be happy to look them over.

 

Let me close by asking: what are the data? Where is the evidence to support your assertions? If this evidence cannot be produced, why do you believe what you do? We can probably all agree that such things are possible, but this, by itself, isn't reason to accept them to be true.

[Samnmax221]

Maybe you should check into this guy.

He debunked Uri Geller and many others, it'll teach you the difference between science and psuedoscience.

[ET Warrior]

This article seems particularly pertinant to the discussion at hand.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Also to all you people out there who thank that I am a UFO nut or a conspiracy nut.

That's because you are. You have no evidence to support your theories (the History Channel doesn't count) yet you believe they exist.

 

 

And stop adding color tags to your posts, it just makes them even more annoying.

[Windu Chi]

You know there is no more use of trying convencing you or your sceptical freinds so I am ending this useless discussion that I been wasting my breath and patience with. But before I leave this useless waste of my time.

 

I want to tell you that I really hate and disgusted with your kind (igorant sceptics), it is people like you and your sceptical familiy of idiots that have influence the the inspiration of the public of this planet to investing in exploration of the galaxy for your nonsencal support of governments f**king disgusting lies about ET.

 

So with that, about 70% of the people of this planet are still stuck on this planet worrying about social security, healthcare,Armageddon and disease among other things. All of these problems have solutions now today including the religous End Time belief.

 

For one health can easily be solve, make it free doctors in which I truly hate should'nt have to be paid to keep people alive or in normal

health or they should'nt have became doctors in the first place.

 

Social security is in this government for example is its intention of keeping track of us the citizens.

 

Disease always have had solutions, it is the major drug and pharmaceutical companies which have been keeping the cure to the world's most horriable diseases a secret. And if you sceptics think this conspiracy talk I don't give a damn because it is the truth.

 

The most obvious reason being, to continue making money (which I also despise very much) off those unlucky people who can't obtain enough of that resource to cheat death of its reward.

 

Also I figure this will be extremely obviously to sceptics who claim to be more "logical" than anyone else. Again if you still believe that your glorious f**king government is not keeping secrets.

 

There was a NASA program the was in progress from 1996-2002 that was called the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project, where they was trying to find a way to move faster than light and well I will give their reason, "to seek the ultimate breakthroughs in space transportation: (1) propulsion that requires no propellant mass, (2) propulsion that attains the maximum transit speeds physically possible, and (3) breakthrough methods of energy production to power such devices. Topics of interest include experiments and theories regarding the coupling of gravity and electromagnetism, the quantum vacuum, hyper fast travel, and super luminal quantum effects."

 

They was trying to use the wonderful science of Physics(which I adore) to get us off this planet and explore the galaxy and the rest of the universe.

Also I know NASA is part the government & this can be construed as a contradiction to my miss trust of this government. But when I heard of this project they really got my attention but not my trust.

 

So in effect they was trying to get us from Earth's gravity potential in which some of the majority of the world's population seem to be comfortable with, reason being because of you damn sceptics support of the governments of this planet useless lies.

 

This program funding was cut when, guess who when the Bush administration

arive which seem to be "suspicious" since he claim he want NASA to return by to the moon(which I know some of you sceptics believe never happen), go to Mars and beyond what ever the hell that mean.

 

So finally if you sceptics want to continue believing that ET don't exist and government is'nt lying its people then you might as well say that the whole humand race should remain on this planet to the f**king sun burn out and never have had travel the galaxy and never have had known the greatest and probably the most wonderful mysteries this galaxy and universe have.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

God, you conspiracy nuts are so annoying, claiming to have legitimate research that proves your theories, which are all easily disproven by actual scientists and researchers-if you even produce said evidence.

 

Now, either please post whatever evidence you have to support your theories, or stop posting about them.

[Windu Chi]

God, you conspiracy nuts are so annoying, claiming to have legitimate research that proves your theories, which are all easily disproven by actual scientists and researchers-if you even produce said evidence.

 

Now, either please post whatever evidence you have to support your theories, or stop posting about them.

 

You know I want to ask you a question, what do you believe what is real in the universe? Please don't say ET because I already suppected you don't.

[ET Warrior]

doctors in which I truly hate should'nt have to be paid to keep people alive or in normal health or they should'nt have became doctors in the first place.

Because doctors don't need houses, clothes or food? They can survive just on the good feelings of doing good works?

 

And if you sceptics think this conspiracy talk I don't give a damn because it is the truth.

PROOF windu, we need proof. Even some half-baked manner of website that spews conspiracy jargon would at least give you the TINIEST bit of credibility. Just saying that you know these things because the voices in your head tell you so means nothing.

[edlib]

I don't see how the belief that Extra-Terrestrial Intelligent Beings have visited the planet has ANYTHING to do with the furtherment of space exploration, or even the possibility of life on other planets.

 

Logically, if the forces that led to life evolving on Earth are universal (and we have no reason to suspect they are not) then it also logically leads to the real possibility that life has evolved elsewhere. (And as a person who installs the SETI@Home screen-saver software on every computer I have access to, I count myself as one of those who suspect that this is the case.)

 

Just because it's possible that life (intelligent or otherwise) may exist elsewhere in the universe (even in our own cosmic neighborhood) that doesn't lead to any real conclusions that we have been visited by that life at any point in human history. In fact, the statistical odds of that happening are, well... astronomical. We have absolutely no reason to believe, and certainly ZERO scientific proof that we have been targeted by alien intelligences for visitations and examination.

 

Space travel is long, arduous, dangerous work... and the idea of any intelligent race travelling light-decades (or longer) to find our tiny, otherwise insignificant planet out of billions of other possibilities, only to not say "Hi!" when they got here and recognized the existence of other sentient, intelligent, technological beings... well, that's just wacky.

 

And I don't see how space flight and exploration fits in with any of this. The human race has always sought to travel to the outer frontiers. Space is no different, and many programs currently exist, and will continue to expand (although, perhaps not at the pace many of us would like to see.) None of that hinges on the issue of extra-terrestrial visitations, however. 2 completely unrelated issues.

 

The Governments of the world lie to us and keep secrets about a great many things... but alien life visiting the Earth would be far too big a story for any government to sit on for any length of time... it would get out, and quickly... that is if any government could ever hope to sit on it in the first place.

 

You say you are not a conspiracy theorist... but several of the topics in your posts betray that. I have no great love for most of the government institutions of the world, let me tell you... but all of them are far, FAR too incompetent to keep that many conspiracies active and alive at any one time... let alone sustaining them for decades, or in some cases, centuries. The truth will always out.

 

And most conspiracy theories needlessly multiply entities (Occam's Razor...) make things needlessly and overwhelmingly complicated, and totally fly in the face of just about EVERYTHING we know about human nature... namely: humans as a whole are greedy and stupid and will always seek self-gain over everything else.

 

As such, the classic conspiracy theories are untenable since you can't hope to keep all of the tens of thousands of people that it would take to sustain the mechanics of one quiet, either with payoffs, appeals to their sense of duty to the state, or threats of violence. It can't be done: somebody will talk and ruin the whole thing... and probably much sooner than later. Just look at all the "Top Secrets" dealing with the "War on Terror" that have been leaked from our government in the 5 years since 9-11. Frankly, I'm kinda surprised it took this long for this stuff to come out and be published.

 

But, all that being said: Good luck with your search anyway. It would make me happy if you eventually prove us all wrong.

[Mike Windu]

Hey, you, [expletive deleted], how bout you stop with the ad hominem and get back to the debate at hand.

 

But at the very least, correct the spelling, SKEPTIC.

 

Come back when you have a decent argument.

[SkinWalker]

The correct spelling in British English is "sceptic."

[Dagobahn Eagle]

My piece of advise is you drop the conspiracy theories and spend some effort on actual phenomenae (gr.?), such as the Hessdalen Lights (the only ones I can think of at the moment).

 

Or, of course, you could help the scientific community by installing Seti@Home or doing something else of that nature.

 

Exposing non-existant cover-ups can be quite hard. Getting involved in well-documented and acknowledged matters or projects might be more beneficial.

[Mike Windu]

Ah @ Skin

 

Well he should still stop with the ad hominem.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

You know I want to ask you a question, what do you believe what is real in the universe? Please don't say ET because I already suppected you don't.

Whatever there's evidence of.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

You know I want to ask you a question, what do you believe what is real in the universe?

The Hessdalen Lights. Although I suspect there's some boring, perfectly natural explanation for them that'll disappoint all the people considering them little UFO-thingies:p.

[Samnmax221]

Swamp gas, and stupid people. There's your explanation.

[edlib]

A couple of drunk fishing or hunting buddies, out alone in the woods, miles from anywhere, decide in their intoxicated state to try out a little "Brokeback Mountain"-type experimentation.

 

In the morning, in the truck on the way home, they figure out they may have to explain to their wives why they are sitting so uncomfortably, and the stains in their undies. They need to get their stories straight... (pardon the pun. )

 

Suddenly, the concept of aliens swooping down from the sky to preform "Anal-Probing" on a couple of good ol' boys just minding their business in camp is born. And the rest is history.