Kurgan Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Last I checked, Luke never won, but Vader sacrificed himself to kill the Emporer. ...Wha? Luke fought a saber battle with Vader, and beat him, once he got angry. That's what I was referring to. I don't count it a "victory" only if one opponent was killed by the other. Dooku beat Obi-Wan, twice. Dooku beat Anakin. Dooku tied with Yoda (in early drafts he actually lost). Anakin beat Dooku. Palpatine beat Yoda. Palpatine beat Saesi Tiin, Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto. Palpatine beat Mace Windu (ultimately, though he lost the saber duel, see the example of Maul vs. Obi-Wan, but this is even less so because neither of them even had a lightsaber at the end). Obi-Wan beat Vader/Anakin. Vader/Anakin beat Obi-Wan (though he let himself be killed) Vader/Anakin beat various no-name Jedi at the temple (shown in holos). Vader/Anakin beat Luke (though you could argue this one, since they really have two fights in ESB, the first one Luke wins, the second one Vader wins, if you see them as one long fight then Vader clearly wins) Luke beat Vader/Anakin. Obi-Wan beat Grievous (a non-force user) Darth Maul tied with Qui Gon Jinn (their first fight, Jinn ran away). Darth Maul beat Qui Gon Jinn. Darth Maul beat Obi-Wan (even though he was killed by him later, the duel was effectively over, you could argue this one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Yoda doesn't run away from Dooku - Dooku runs away from Yoda! Whoops, I mistyped that. Of course you're right. He wasn't even losing! His original plan was to run away, but his ego got the better of him, so he stayed to fight the Jedi to show how powerful he was (and finally realized that he couldn't beat Yoda, and they might eventually wear him out and capture him, notice how the troops arrived just seconds after he fled). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YertyL Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Palpatine beat Mace Windu (ultimately, though he lost the saber duel, see the example of Maul vs. Obi-Wan, but this is even less so because neither of them even had a lightsaber at the end). Hey, Palpatine beat Mace after Anakin surprised him and cut his hand off - I'd hardly call that a fair fight. I mean, killing someone is not quite beating someone, and in the fair fight Mace managed to disarm Palpatine and make him whimper like an injured puppy. Would you say that Palpatine "beat" Plagueis (is it spelled that way ...?) by killing him in his sleep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Scott! Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Palpatine could've easily killed Mace though, he was just convincing Anakin to help him to more easily turn him to the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Without Ani's help he could try, but the result would probably be quite fatal to him, not that he would have a choice. It is said that Mace it the greatest combatant of the time, especially when he wears his blingblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawaJoey Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I think that Sidious underestimated Mace as a lightsaber combatant, and I'll accept that he genuinely got bested in that regard. However, he definitely made himself look much weaker than he was just before Anakin showed up. Even without a lightsaber, the Sith Lord wouldn't scramble along the floor helplessly then beg for mercy. Plus, he clearly was holding back with the lightning a bit. IIRC, I think I recall Palpatine mentioning something about UNNLLIMMETTED POOOWWWEEEERRRRRR!!!!! So as far as the saber duel goes, Mace actually gained the upper hand, but as a whole fight, Mace wouldn't have won. And Palpatine very skillfully manuevered the entire situation to look perfet for Anakin. Just think of what would have happened if Sidious and Mace's positions ahd been reversed, with with Sidious standing over an unarmed Mace Windu, threatening him with a glowing red saber at his neck. How would that have effeted Anakin I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YertyL Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Palpatine could've easily killed Mace though, he was just convincing Anakin to help him to more easily turn him to the dark side. This is pretty speculative; I don't know about you, but I'd think that if a person has a lightsaber centimeters away from another person's face, that person can kill the other one pretty fast if he wants to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Scott! Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 How do you know Palpatine didn't let himself get into a position like that? I mean, look how easily he killed the other three Jedi. Sure, Mace is better, but I don't think Mace could've easily just killed three Jedi the way Palpatine did easily. He definately would've been Palpatine's greatest match, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mivoci1 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well my opinion is that Sidious let him win because he sensed Anakin approaching that is why Windu make his last mistake because he turned Anakin's appoitmend as a Jedi Master and in EP I he turned the boy down then he make his first mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mivoci1 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Mace Windu used Vaapad style so it is possible that Windu won the fight but do not forget that Sidious killed Jedi with ease my personal opinion is that Sidious let Windu defeat him so he can twist Anakin further down the dark path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marapets Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Uhhh, pretty sure he is the chosen one... Why does everyone think Mace Windu is some super-natural all-powerful being? well he is supposed to be a jedi master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 So are a lot of other Jedi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferris209 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I still believe that Mace won fair and square, everyone knows that Mace was one of the baddest dudes in the order. I think that he was the only Jedi who was capable of fighting Sidious, mostly becuase of his Vaapad style and his natural dark side traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henz Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I think that Sidious underestimated Mace as a lightsaber combatant, and I'll accept that he genuinely got bested in that regard. However, he definitely made himself look much weaker than he was just before Anakin showed up. Even without a lightsaber, the Sith Lord wouldn't scramble along the floor helplessly then beg for mercy. Plus, he clearly was holding back with the lightning a bit. IIRC, I think I recall Palpatine mentioning something about UNNLLIMMETTED POOOWWWEEEERRRRRR!!!!! So as far as the saber duel goes, Mace actually gained the upper hand, but as a whole fight, Mace wouldn't have won . And Palpatine very skillfully manuevered the entire situation to look perfet for Anakin. Just think of what would have happened if Sidious and Mace's positions ahd been reversed, with with Sidious standing over an unarmed Mace Windu, threatening him with a glowing red saber at his neck. How would that have effeted Anakin I wonder? I agree with everything you said except for that line. I think Mace clearly won; only Anakin's intervention saved Palpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windu Chi Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Mace Windu used Vaapad style so it is possible that Windu won the fight but do not forget that Sidious killed Jedi with ease my personal opinion is that Sidious let Windu defeat him so he can twist Anakin further down the dark path Yeah whatever, mivoci1! Mace Windu whip that coward ass, Sidious. And if he didn't trust that weak punk, Anakin, he would've whip Anakin ass, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth kav Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Yeah whatever, mivoci1! Mace Windu whip that coward ass, Sidious. And if he didn't trust that weak punk, Anakin, he would've whip Anakin ass, too. mace would not stand a chance against ankakin when he's darth vader any way back to the point sidious let mace defeat him so anikan would full turn to the dark side and after ani cuts mace hand off sidious pushs mace away with powerful thunder bolt and for some one who is weak could not do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windu Chi Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 mace would not stand a chance against ankakin when he's darth vader any way back to the point sidious let mace defeat him so anikan would full turn to the dark side and after ani cuts mace hand off sidious pushs mace away with powerful thunder bolt and for some one who is weak could not do that.Yeah, whatever! Believe that if you must. Mace would've kick both Anakin and Sidious ass if it was no movie. Sidious is weak and a coward; if he could had defeated Mace he would've and not whine like a punk for Anakin's help. Sidious got his ass kicked, no question. Anakin flashy fighting style is no match for Mace Windu's quick and deadly lightsaber strikes. And Darth Vader, well we don't know that for sure. But by playing the Ep. III: ROTS video game and looking at Vader fighting style, Mace would have kick his ass as Vader I bet, with his quick and deadly fighting style in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth kav Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Yeah, whatever! Believe that if you must. Mace would've kick both Anakin and Sidious ass if it was no movie. Sidious is weak and a coward; if he could had defeated Mace he would've and not whine like a punk for Anakin's help. Sidious got his ass kicked, no question. Anakin flashy fighting style is no match for Mace Windu's quick and deadly lightsaber strikes. And Darth Vader, well we don't know that for sure. But by playing the Ep. III: ROTS video game and looking at Vader fighting style, Mace would have kick his ass as Vader I bet, with his quick and deadly fighting style in that game. yer but in the video game vader's blows are powerful and deadlly but slow but mace's are a bit faster and a lot weaker so vader will kick his ass. and anakins are to fast for a old timer like mace it proven in the film he slice's mace hand off before he can even moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windu Chi Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 yer but in the video game vader's blows are powerful and deadlly but slow but mace's are a bit faster and a lot weaker so vader will kick his ass. The slow blows of Vader, works to Mace's advantage in combat; Mace has the quickest slash strikes that are also very powerful. But that was in the game, but the quick slash with a hot lightsaber would quickly had ended Vader if it was for real. Vader strikes takes to long, Mace would've quickly dispense with him in that time. and anakins are to fast for a old timer like mace it proven in the film he slice's mace hand off before he can even moves That is because, Mace had put to much trust in Anakin, he knew Anakin had conflicting feelings that later lead him to the darkside, but Mace decided to trust him, he didn't expect Anakin would betray him in that scene. Also that was meant to happen anyway, everybody knew who is a Star Wars fan that Mace was going to loose anyway, when that scene arrived. But if Mace was given a fair chance, he would've quickly dispatch Anakin, Anakin's over confidence also, would've quickly done him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineCult Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I completely agree, windu6, Mace beat Sidious fair and square and if he had seen Anakins attack coming he would have beaten him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaelastraz Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I don't know about that Mace vs Sidious duel... To me they seemed equal. I don't know who would have won if Anakin had not intervened but I believe when Palpatine sensed Anakin coming, he deliberatly "lost" the duel. I don't claim he would have won otherwise, but especially that scene where Palpatine rolls around on the floor, totally helpless, makes me think he lost on purpose, to twist Anakin to the dark side. Oh, and Anakin would not stand a chance in single combat against either Sidious or Mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I'm pretty sure Sidious could kick Mace's @$$. Think about it, if Yoda couldn't defeat him, Mace definately couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I'm pretty sure Sidious could kick Mace's @$$. Think about it, if Yoda couldn't defeat him, Mace definately couldn't. Yoda's spirit was broken. Hard to use that as a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windu Chi Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I'm pretty sure Sidious could kick Mace's @$$. Think about it, if Yoda couldn't defeat him, Mace definately couldn't. You're sadly mistaken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Heh, hardly any room for debate. Sidious was the stronger one by far. It seemed like a very strange coincidence that he lost his lightsaber at that time. The perfect time, in fact, for Anakin to come in. No, he decided that should happen. Seems quite strange that he would whine about being too weak to do anything one second, and then be able to blast someone out a window with Force lightning the next. Everything seemed far too coincidental to have happened by chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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