Egyptian Pyramids: Their Lure on Humanity. (Philosophical Discusions)

[EnderWiggin]

It is not the size that matters, but the usage of the brain. Modern man uses around 7%(do not quote me on this I am not sure of the exact percentage) of the brain, what if they used more than that? Even with smaler brains they could have achieve more, maybe that was their advantage over us.

 

This is untrue. Man uses at most 10% of his brain - but at any given time.

 

_EW_

[Pavlos]

Hmm, interesting topic. I'm going to spew out comments in no particular order, thus making it difficult to read my post.

 

What is all this about the human brain changing in size? There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that my ancestor eight thousand years ago had a smaller brain capacity than myself. Studies have shown that the human brain has remained the same in size for over 200 000 years.

 

Last year New Scientist published an article about the changes the brain may be undergoing in modern society. While it is true that the brain may once more be under the scrutiny of natural selection (Although, sitting examinations and high powered business meetings are not exactly something you see often) you will not see changes in it for an excessive period of time - evolution is slow because the gap between one human generation and another is generally around thirty years. So, the Egyptians were likely as intelligent as the average human today. The reason for our apparent sophistication is because we're "Standing on the shoulders of giants." Let's say this... a husband and wife are on their way to their honeymoon. The plane crashes and they are the only two survivors on an island. They have to focus on such things as getting food and creating rudimentary shelter. Their children, on the other hand, will already have a shelter so can spend more time on improving fishing skills and so the process continues.

 

Anyhoo, the pyramids are absolutely fantastic structures. Monuments to living... uh, I mean, dead gods on Earth. I prefer the history of Rome to that of Egypt but I do remember reading something about giant ramps being used to roll those blocks up to the top - as ridiculous as it may seem.

[Darth InSidious]

Not even one? I can understand that it was generally free men building it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few of them happened to be slaves, too.

No need. For the months when the Nile was flooded, there was little else for the majority of the workforce to do. Putting them to work on civic building projects kept them busy and kept them from getting bored and doing things which

 

This is a very well know missconception. They did use slaves to develop the Pyramids. It all has to do with ratio. I don't know the figures, for I don't think anyone can figure them out. I do know from study that there were both slaves and paid workers that built the pyramids.

Err, Mac? Word of advice - don't argue with an egyptologist over egyptology

Could you provide a link to this study? Or at least tell me who wrote it? I'm very curious to know, as so far no-one has found concrete evidence to contradict Flinders Petrie's idea that the pyramids were constructed by free labourers, during the months when the Nile was flooded, and they had no other work to do - with the fields flooded, there was nothing for the farmers to do, and Pharaoh had a readily available workforce who would get fed and clothed and housed for hauling blocks a few months a year. Tough work, but they were rewarded for it. Under most circumstances, your ordinary Egyptian would not, for example, been paid in cuts of meat, for example. Most of the time, people ate bread. But those that worked on the pyramids were fed meat - unusual, for labourers, and certainly you wouldn't waste it on mere slaves.

 

Source?

 

Using slaves over paid workers would be an efficient choice.

 

Flinders Petrie, and frankly, no-one has come up with a satisfactory alternative.

 

The majority of actual evidence for slavery in Egypt is from the New Kingdom- the Late Period, and are in the main prisoners of war.

 

Also, slaves - don't do work too well. Skilled labourers being paid well - more likely to do the job well. Carrot works better than stick . See also- Deir el-Medina

 

[The Source]

^^^^

I have to do some reasearch on this. I was told in a 'Art History' class, the other way around. However, I have also heard the same thing that you did.

[mimartin]

^^^^

I have to do some reasearch on this. I was told in a 'Art History' class, the other way around. However, I have also heard the same thing that you did.

 

MacLeodGR: Nova had a good show on the other night titled NOVA's "This Old Pyramid," about who built the Pyramids. Most of the information is on their website.

 

The pyramids are a fascinating subject to contemplate. In my opinion they show the greatness of the human condition and our ability to do anything we set our mind to. To me the pyramids are as great of an accomplishment as man landing on the moon. They may be even greater, will people still be talking about Neil Armstrong in 5 thousand years. That is what makes them so fascinating in that they made the builders and the pharaoh immortal, as a part of them live on in their expertly crafted structure.

 

I’m no expert, but from what I learned in college history and from watching the Discover channel and PBS the pyramids were not built by slaves. Even if I believed they were I’m not going to argue Egyptologist. Also I believe if they were built by slaves they would only be a forgotten memory by now. Long ago destroyed and discarded. Weren’t the Pharaoh considered a living god in their culture? If so that would help explain the craftsmanship and durability. I would work harder at my job if I felt it would help me in the after life.

[The Source]

Egypt moves 3,200-year-old Ramses statue

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14508580/

 

CAIRO, Egypt - Engineers on Friday moved the giant statute of Pharaoh Ramses II from a congested square in downtown Cairo to its new home near the more peaceful Great Pyramids.

 

Contractors moved the more than 3,200-year-old statue from Ramses Square in an effort to save it from exhaust fumes and other environmental hazards that were causing the 83-ton structure to deteriorate.

It was only fitting to place this news in this thread.

[Q]

^^^

I remember reading that they did something similar to that back when they built the Aswan High Dam, only it was with an entire temple and its statues to keep them from getting covered with water.

 

I may be wrong, though. Darth Insidious would definately know more about this than I do.

 

Also, DI: Am I right when I say that the pyramids are the only intact example of the 7 Ancient Wonders, or was the Parthenon in Athens also on that list?

[Jae Onasi]

I googled '7 ancient wonders' and it looks like the Great Pyramid of Giza is the only intact example, but I haven't double checked the other 6. The Parthenon is considered one of the wonders, but not on the 'official list' of 7.

The other 6 wonders: Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Statue of Zeus at Olympia, The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, The Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, The Colossus of Rhodes, and the Lighthouse of Alexandria.

[Darth InSidious]

^^^

I remember reading that they did something similar to that back when they built the Aswan High Dam, only it was with an entire temple and its statues to keep them from getting covered with water.

 

I may be wrong, though. Darth Insidious would definately know more about this than I do.

 

Also, DI: Am I right when I say that the pyramids are the only intact example of the 7 Ancient Wonders, or was the Parthenon in Athens also on that list?

 

Actually, they flooded the area first. Then, after the paint was almost completely stripped of the only damn-near-totally-perfect-condition temple in Egypt by the undercurrents or whatever, and much international pressure was an international team put together to move Edfu, Abu Simbel and other sites which had been submerged by the dam.

 

Yes, the Great Pyramid is the only one of the Seven Wonders still standing, and ironically the oldest, too.

 

So much for classical architecture

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Quite a few sources and two films point out that Pyramids are alien landing pads.

No evidence, though. Too bad, that.

 

"Why were the ancients driven to make such large monuments?" Could an outside visitation sparked their motivation? Otherwords, did an alien precence, in an uninvolved manner, influence the Egyptians to create these massive stone structures?

Nope. Humans have always wasted resources on big project, even when those resources were plainly needed elsewhere.

 

The Mayans dug their own graves by creating massive cities which required more resources than they could gather, and which also neglected important fields such as agriculture.

 

Dubya does it right now with his White Elephant mission to go to Mars, a project which is optimistically estimated to cost 400 billion dollars. Dubya's country is at the same time in a record-bad deficit and debt of horrific proportions and fighting a 300-billion dollar war.

 

North Korea did it by creating massive US-level highways even though their country has nearly no cars or trucks whatsoever. They also undertook to create a huge "hotel" made of so fragile concrete that it cannot be put into use without falling down (it's that hideous pyramid-like... Thing to the right). Their intent was to build the tallest building in the world and thus fool... Well, to be honest, who they thought they were fooling is beyond me... into thinking North Korea actually had a great, working economy. As if.

 

Either way, in the meantime the even taller Sears Towers were finished, and construction was abandoned. They didn't even bother to take the cranes down (they probably couldn't afford to, or perhaps they were afraid the... "Building" would come crashing down if they dared touch it).

 

The Easter Island inhabitants wasted resources on huge statues of heads, which, according to some historians was the main reason for their downfall.

 

Taiwan did it by building the enormous Taipei 101, which is, although a marvellous piece of engineering by an equally marvellous nation, considered by many to be a "White Elephant" built mostly for the purpose of bragging.

 

Humans are a race of show-offs. If we get it into our heads to build something huge, we do it, regardless of necessity and consequences [glares out of window at 20 metres tall cardboard statue of self].

[HerbieZ]

No evidence, though. Too bad, that.

 

 

The Easter Island inhabitants wasted resources on huge statues of heads, which, according to some historians was the main reason for their downfall.

 

Thats the way to go though isnt it. Shall we kill the economy by going to war? No. Shall we kill it by helping other countries in need? No. Lets build massive great big stone heads to bankrupt everyone and kill the civilisation. Hell yes.

[Darth InSidious]

No evidence, though. Too bad, that.

 

Nope. Humans have always wasted resources on big project, even when those resources were plainly needed elsewhere.

 

The Mayans dug their own graves by creating massive cities which required more resources than they could gather, and which also neglected important fields such as agriculture.

 

Dubya does it right now with his White Elephant mission to go to Mars, a project which is optimistically estimated to cost 400 billion dollars. Dubya's country is at the same time in a record-bad deficit and debt of horrific proportions and fighting a 300-billion dollar war.

 

North Korea did it by creating massive US-level highways even though their country has nearly no cars or trucks whatsoever. They also undertook to create a huge "hotel" made of so fragile concrete that it cannot be put into use without falling down (it's that hideous pyramid-like... Thing to the right). Their intent was to build the tallest building in the world and thus fool... Well, to be honest, who they thought they were fooling is beyond me... into thinking North Korea actually had a great, working economy. As if.

 

Either way, in the meantime the even taller Sears Towers were finished, and construction was abandoned. They didn't even bother to take the cranes down (they probably couldn't afford to, or perhaps they were afraid the... "Building" would come crashing down if they dared touch it).

 

The Easter Island inhabitants wasted resources on huge statues of heads, which, according to some historians was the main reason for their downfall.

 

Taiwan did it by building the enormous Taipei 101, which is, although a marvellous piece of engineering by an equally marvellous nation, considered by many to be a "White Elephant" built mostly for the purpose of bragging.

 

Humans are a race of show-offs. If we get it into our heads to build something huge, we do it, regardless of necessity and consequences [glares out of window at 20 metres tall cardboard statue of self].

 

You seem to disapprove of this. Would you prefer humanity never blew a little cash once in a while, and stayed stuck in foothills of mediocrity?

[Dagobahn Eagle]

That the Egyptians and Native Americans built pyramids in the first place is a testament to their engineering skills. They understood how durable the pyramid shape would be, and used that knowledge to erect huge structures that stand even today. The Inuits with their dome-shaped igloos are a bit the same way (although igloos don't quite match the Great Pyramids scale-wise;)).

 

Thats the way to go though isnt it. Shall we kill the economy by going to war? No. Shall we kill it by helping other countries in need? No. Lets build massive great big stone heads to bankrupt everyone and kill the civilisation. Hell yes.

Quite:).

 

You seem to disapprove of this. Would you prefer humanity never blew a little cash once in a while, and stayed stuck in foothills of mediocrity?

There's a thin line between "spending a little cash once in a while" and "bankrupting your country by wasting money on things you can't afford, just to show off".

 

Taiwan built Taipei 101, fine, they could afford it and despite the controversy, they do benefit a lot from it.

 

You don't have to bankrupt your nation to avoid "staying stuck in the foothills of mediocrity". Wait until you have the surplus money, then start spending them.

[Darth InSidious]

As I understand it, the American government's yearly revenue is approx. $10 trillion. What $3-400bn compared to that?

 

You really want pointless - the Millennium Dome, Greenwich, London.

Biggest. White. Elephant. Of. The. Last. Thousand. Years.

(NB: I'm no economist, and my knowledge of the subject is crude at best...)

 

Also, on the bankrupting-your-people thing and Easter Island, you say that the heads were "totally pointless". I doubt the inhabitants of Easter Island agreed

[Fealiks]

@Jae Onasi Well it looks like people than were smarter than we are now!

 

Learn the difference between "Then" and "Than". I'm not getting at you, just helping you out

 

Didn't they discover a pyramid somewhere under the ground in Europe not long ago?

[Raven_Onasi]

I must admit that the Egyptian way of life is of great interest to me. The pyramid are no exception. I would like to see the hyrogiphics, and try to read some of them.

[Darth InSidious]

Learn the difference between "Then" and "Than". I'm not getting at you, just helping you out

 

Didn't they discover a pyramid somewhere under the ground in Europe not long ago?

Actually, there it's fine.

 

You don't say "people were a lot smarter then we are now", after all

[The Source]

As I understand it, the American government's yearly revenue is approx. $10 trillion. What $3-400bn compared to that?

Lol... Too bad we don't know how to balance a budget. The Bush Administration reported $350ish (billion) in deficit for last month, which is actually an all out lie to the public. Last night on a show called 'NOW', it was reported that the U.S. deficit overall is ten times what has been reported. We are talking overall numbers. The numbers have been surpress from the public, so we would not worry. Someone came forward and finally said something. They chopped off the war dept from the numbers, so they can show the public a smaller number.

 

$8 trillion dollar deficit was reported by the Bush Admin for the overhead for our wars combined, which is owed to outside countries.

 

The actual number is close to $80 Trillion dollars for the war in Iraq, Afganistan, and the main war on terror. And it continues to climb.

 

Social Security is around $2 Trillion in dept (Reported by the Bush Admin.)

Actual number is around $20 Trillion in dept.

 

Eventualy, we will have to pay it all back.

[Darth InSidious]

Countries are always in debt, though.

 

The UK hasn't balanced its books since before the French Revolution

 

Granted, 80 trillion is truly a huge amount, but even so...

 

And we thought our government was pushing it with a debt of approx. £80bn, and a refusal from the IMF to allow us to borrow any more...

[The Source]

I think that every modern day society can learn from the ancient Egyptians.

 

1. How mankind has changed between 10,000 BC and 2006.

2. How a society of people de-evolve and evolve.

3. What mankind may have been thinking about religion and government structure.

4. Etc...

 

They are a very interesting people, and I hope we can find the whole story to their existance.

 

You never know, the alien factor may have had a very small influence. Look at how we are influenced by the concept of aliens. Current day mankind is just as curious about the unknown as the Egyptian were. I don't believe aliens had a major influence, but they could have played a small role. We have movies based upon our alien curiosity, and we have a space program that spawn from the same interest. Imagine a primitive people who were confronted with, "We are not alone." To our future selves, I am sure there would be stories about the 20st century, and our paranoia, curiosity, and influences based upon aliens. To our future selves, we are very primitive.

 

Imagine the people who are living in the 25th - 30th century, and how they perceive mankind in the 20th century. "Those primitive people. Why were they seperated by borders? It must have been hard for them to get passed their differences. Mankind tired not to confront a World War III & IV, but look at what ultimately happened. I cannot believe terrorism existed, how did they deal with their paranoia? Why did it take the death of billions inorder to bring everyone together? Look at their environmental issues, and how it has effected us in the 30th century."

 

I have allways thought billions of us have to disapear, so the remaining can ask the questions: What the hell are we thinking? What the hell are we doing? What the hell just happened, and why did it happen?

 

I think the key to understanding our own flaws lays in the past, and we can learn a mess of lessons from the Egyptians.