Jan Gaarni Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Here's a good quote... Fundamentalist Christianity - fascinating. These people actually believe that the the world is 12,000 years old. Swear to God. Based on what? I asked them. "Well we looked at.... *snippet*" Robin Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Robin Williams? No, Bill Hicks. No one "got that number" from anywhere Well somebody had to write that part in the Bible, since god surely didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Ah, right, now I remember. Could have sworn it was Robin Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai DD Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Why would you follow the bible at all then? It seems that the 'good book' wants you to believe everything it says. Isn't it plausible that the book is just a big misconception on how people back then viewed how the world worked? You follow the Bible because of it's impeccable moral advice and ethics. Most other religions have similar moral values but they are taught in a different way. As for the creation of the world, we all know that ancient civilizations had to create this myths to explain the universe, and remember: 95% of the Bible is not about how the world "worked", but about Jewish history and ethics. The utter perfection of the ethics in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus makes it the most worthwhile book of all. Jewish myths about the world being made in a week are simply that, myths that those people believed, as Greeks believed in the titans and the gods of the Olympus. And again, those stories teach us valuable things both about morality, life, and of course how the Greeks viewed the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 we all know that ancient civilizations had to create this myths to explain the universe. You have to understand that most of the people who follow these religions DO believe that this is how the world started. They are so gullible that they believe that these ancient myths are REAL. If you read the bible for messages about how to live your life then I'm happy for you. But when one goes to such great irrational lengths as to follow the religion like it's a manual to how life works then you are very uninformed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai DD Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 You have to understand that most of the people who follow these religions DO believe that this is how the world started. They are so gullible that they believe that these ancient myths are REAL. If you read the bible for messages about how to live your life then I'm happy for you. But when one goes to such great irrational lengths as to follow the religion like it's a manual to how life works then you are very uninformed! Yes, unfortunately I have confronted that one too many times in my life. I agree with you in this aspect. But it did seem you discarded the Bible completely in some of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanius Anglesmith Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Was the world really created the exact way that the Bible portrays? Maybe, but maybe not. In all honesty, I don't really care how it started, I just care how it ends and where I will be once it does end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Yes, unfortunately I have confronted that one too many times in my life. I agree with you in this aspect. But it did seem you discarded the Bible completely in some of your posts. No, not at all.. I believe that Jesus had many teachings that could be benefitial in many people's life. I'm talking about the people who take the bible as the answer to everything. "If you do not believe in god you will burn in a lake of fire", "if you question god you could go to hell." If god is suppose to be such a loving and peacful god, why would he send you to hell just for being confused or maybe not believing that he is thee almighty? Since when did god become a dictator? If this is all true, couldn't god be compared to somebody such as Hitler? Wake up and smell the coffee. I don't really care how it started, I just care how it ends and where I will be once it does end. Then according to the bible you are being selfish, and if you sin you will go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joetheeskimo Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 You have to understand that most of the people who follow these religions DO believe that this is how the world started. They are so gullible that they believe that these ancient myths are REAL. If you read the bible for messages about how to live your life then I'm happy for you. But when one goes to such great irrational lengths as to follow the religion like it's a manual to how life works then you are very uninformed! Before you continue to bash "most" Christians by assuming they all believe the exact same thing, stop to consider that there are, in fact, many interpretations. Some, me not included, believe that the world is very young. They come to this conclusion by counting the generations listed in the geneologies. They believe that the world really was created in seven literal days and that it was really instant - poof - appear. Others, me included, prefer to point out that none of us can fully understand or explain the formation of the universe. Who knows? What if God worked through the Big Bang to create galaxies? All we really hold to is that God was behind it all, no matter how it physically came to be, from the eyes of an onlooker. And "7 days" certainly couldn't have been 7 literal days, in my opinion, since our interpretation of a "day" is from sunrise to sunset, and the sun is not the first thing listed as being created. Why would God's day be 24 hours like ours? The Bible is always open to interpretation, and while some parts are historical, there are some parts that we have no place advocating as literal, every-word-is-just-how-it-seems fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Before you continue to bash "most" Christians by assuming they all believe the exact same thing, stop to consider that there are, in fact, many interpretations. Some, me not included, believe that the world is very young. They come to this conclusion by counting the generations listed in the geneologies. They believe that the world really was created in seven literal days and that it was really instant - poof - appear. Others, me included, prefer to point out that none of us can fully understand or explain the formation of the universe. Who knows? What if God worked through the Big Bang to create galaxies? All we really hold to is that God was behind it all, no matter how it physically came to be, from the eyes of an onlooker. And "7 days" certainly couldn't have been 7 literal days, in my opinion, since our interpretation of a "day" is from sunrise to sunset, and the sun is not the first thing listed as being created. Why would God's day be 24 hours like ours? The Bible is always open to interpretation, and while some parts are historical, there are some parts that we have no place advocating as literal, every-word-is-just-how-it-seems fact. If you read my other posts you will see that I'm not assuming, or bashing what all Christians believe. Also, I think it’s very plausible that god could have created the big bang, created other galaxies (with possibly life on them), and even started evolution. My posts are mostly towards the fundamentalist/radical Christians (and other religions) who think that they are 100% right and are so stubborn with their ways that they will not take into consideration what people like myself say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanius Anglesmith Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I'm talking about the people who take the bible as the answer to everything. "If you do not believe in god you will burn in a lake of fire", "if you question god you could go to hell." Questioning God has nothing to do with going to Hell. I'm a Christian, and I've question God on several past occasions. I've had doubts as to whether He's really there. But God has an incredible ability to forgive just about anything, and He doesn't expect me to be perfect. I'm not going to elaborate on who goes to Hell and who doesn't though, for reasons I assume you can understand. If this is all true, couldn't god be compared to somebody such as Hitler? No, because God doesn't hate anyone, and He doesn't advocate acts of mass slaughter in the name of righteousness. Then according to the bible you are being selfish, and if you sin you will go to hell. I think you have misinterpreted what I said. When I say, "I just care how it ends and where I will be once it does end," I am comparing that to what I believe about the beginning of life. I don't mean that I only care about what happens to me and no one else, because I do care about what will happen to others. All I mean is that I don't think the beginning of life has any say in what will happen at the end of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 No, because God doesn't hate anyone, and He doesn't advocate acts of mass slaughter in the name of righteousness. Um... Let’s see... Sending people like me to hell for simply being Agnostic or any other religion besides Christianity is in a way a 'spiritual' mass slaughter. What about serial killers who repent? Hmm... Funny thought that they get to go to Heaven while I and others are burning for eternity in a lake of fire. All I mean is that I don't think the beginning of life has any say in what will happen at the end of it all. Well... If you read about how the ‘beginning of life was created by god’, and then you don’t buy into the fact that god created the universe in 6 days, then isn’t it a possibility that the theory of heaven and hell could also be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSquee Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 If Christianity is so great then why is it always disputed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 If Christianity is so great then why is it always disputed? They would would just argue that we don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai DD Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Um... Let’s see... Sending people like me to hell for simply being Agnostic or any other religion besides Christianity is in a way a 'spiritual' mass slaughter. First off, the very concept of a hell of fire and as a place of torture is a complete invention of the Catholic Church used, as most of their invented beliefs with no base in the Bible, to scare people into conversion. Never in the Bible it even hints at Hell being a place of torture, the most reasonable interpretation is that it is just nothingness. You are not conscious. The "fire" of hell in modern translations is a direct misinterpretation of the original words used in Koine Greek, "gehenna", "sheol" and "hades". Gehenna, was indeed a burning garbage dump for Jerusalem, and while originally used by the Jews as a symbol for the place of punishment for the wicked in the afterlife, Jesus used the vocable as he used "sheol", just a "pit" where there is nothing and the dead are not conscious of absolutely anything. The difference with gehenna is the fact that this one is the second death, the one from there is no escape, unlike sheol that functions more as a transitory state, like a limbo before it is decided if you revive to go to Paradise or if you go to gehenna, the second death, but it is a pit where you know nothing as well. There are those that hold that hell is a metaphor for a self imposed separation from God derived from sin or lack of faith, and so, God has power, but will not use it, over our free will himself gave us; and so he, that is indeed love and pardon, but cannot go against his own word for He is perfect, made a "place" where we are not conscious of anything, for shunning everything ourselves, that being God and the universe created by Him. Science tells us that death is probably indeed that, ceasing to exist and complete ignorance of everything. As for "hades", it was a translation of "sheol", as the latter is a Hebrew word, and first appeared in the Septuagint, in itself a manipulation of the Church. And now, remember that Hades was not a place of torture but indeed worked much as the "sheol", as a simple passage to either glorious paradises or Tartarus, this one where you were indeed punished and tortured. The words Jesus and the Old Testament used were "sheol" and "gehenna". So, as always... it's Catholicism's fault. PD: They would would just argue that we don't understand. The Bible itself explains the confusion of religions is a deed of the Devil and it is represented by Babylon, the city of hypocrisy. The way to distinguish the followers of the true path was the absence of hypocrisy and seeing that they truly follow what they preach to the point of dying without renouncing their faiths. We can surely discard most religions that claim to be the true congregation now, can't we? PD2: Justly, our mission as Christians is to bring our beliefs to those other religions and preach our beliefs of love and peace for God will pardon all that truly repent and those that did not know of the true word, the ignorants, and this saves a lot of people, including atheists. Who can blame them for not believing when their reason is the hypocrisy they see in the Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joetheeskimo Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 If Christianity is so great then why is it always disputed? Interesting point. The funny thing is, I often use it in the opposite direction. Way back, 2,000 years ago, when the early church consisted of the first apostles, the Romans raided Christian gatherings (although the Christians were in no way inciting revolt and, in fact, taught others to obey any authority over them), dragged them off to prison, and killed them with unimaginably cruel deaths. And yet, Christianity spread. The surviving church members who hadn't yet been imprisoned and killed simply gathered elsewhere. And today, Judaism/Christianity, religions who believe in the same God, are the most disputed and attacked religions. Two words: the Holocaust. Jews, strangely, are hated by people for no apparent reason. Also, countries who proclaim religious freedom secretly capture and torture missionaries/converts. Meanwhile...do you hear about Buddhist monks being killed for their religion? (And before you allude to the Spanish Inquisition and other "Christian" movements that attacked all non-Christians in the Middle Ages, let me just put down right here that by my standards, the Church of the Middle Ages was not "Christian". Most of them had never even touched a Bible. Don't compare them to today.) The Roman persecutions were generally sporadic, localized, and dependent on the political climate and disposition of each emperor. Moreover, imperial decrees against Christians were often directed against church property, the Scriptures, or clergy only. It has been estimated that more Christians have been martyred in the last 50 years than in the church's first 300 years. {7} ^Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 First off, the very concept of a hell of fire and as a place of torture is a complete invention of the Catholic Church used, as most of their invented beliefs with no base in the Bible, to scare people into conversion. Never in the Bible it even hints at Hell being a place of torture, the most reasonable interpretation is that it is just nothingness. If the concept of hell was created by the Catholic Church then why whenever a Christian tries to get in religion with me, they automatically talk about how I will burn in a lake of fire? Hmm... Seems like Catholics aren’t the only ones. P.S Been on vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai DD Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 If the concept of hell was created by the Catholic Church then why whenever a Christian tries to get in religion with me, they automatically talk about how I will burn in a lake of fire? Hmm... Seems like Catholics aren’t the only ones. P.S Been on vacation. I did not even remotely imply they are not the only ones. But they WERE the first ones, being the first established church that called itself Christian. This idea of course, spread out to most other denominations in time, and is a myth that continues today. Some churches that do NOT believe in the Hell of fire are the Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists, the Unity Church and Universalism. These believe is the "sleep" idea. Mormons do believe in a Hell of punishment, but only temporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLONECOMMANDER501 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Hell isn't necessarily fire. That's just an image so that you obey the church. Hell is really just separation from God. NOT FIRE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Hell isn't necessarily fire. That's just an image so that you obey the church. Hell is really just separation from God. NOT FIRE. Hell is just a seperation from God, and eternal suffering basically. We make our choice here on Earth. By the way I am a Christian. Thats what the thread is asking, therefore that is my answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oeb Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Most religions I know believe that the wages of sin is death. The major religions also preach of a messiah coming for our salvation. Ironically some believe that he has come and will return again were as some believe he has yet to still come. The Judeo Christian religion parrelels that of the Sunni Shi in regards to this. I am a Christian. Jesus Christ has taught us to love. Christianity preaches having a repentive heart, and only through the son Jesus Christ by God's grace are we saved. I can understand some parts of extremist or fundementalists feeling you know that you have an obligation to tell mankind of your God's commandments for their salvation. I totally disagree with the lunacy of killing others that don't share your beliefs. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I know Christianity, whether it be unenvious of Ponchas Pilate or trying to handle the hard questions that's the religion I'm most familier with, and certainly strongly enforce people's right to follow it, or any belief or non belief, without fear of persecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I'm a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfTheFish Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I am a Christian. Presbyterian to be exact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I was Raised a Catholic, but since I was 16 I have been completely non religious, I think to a degree its a good way to live your life, but I've never experienced anything to make me believe it to be true. I suppose I tried to be a Christian, but why spend your life trying to be something I didn't feel or believe in. But thats just me, my mum is still a Christian though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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