M$-78 in game trailer

[Darth Raum]

In The Sith Lords trailer, there is one shot where the camera is circling the landing pad on M4-78. Just thought I'd throw that out there even though we all know that it was originally intended to be in the game but was cut due to time shortage. But it just shows that with another 2-3 months, we could've had a finished kotor game, M4-78 and all.

[Emperor Devon]

TSL is actually a finished product, though not many people seem to realize that.

 

I am actually helping restore (though more like make) M4-78. While it will be a fun planet to explore and do things on, TSL will be just as "finished" with or without it. It's really just adding extra gameplay.

[goldberry]

That is a point that reguarly comes up around here, and I don't know why. TSL is a complete and finished product, it is simply a buggy product. The things that were removed (such as M4-78) were originally going to be added in patches like was originally going to be done for some of the places in Kotor. This unfortunately never came to pass, and because there are places where these things COULD happen, and the scattered remainants are there, people consider TSL to be unfinished.

 

It is not.

[HerbieZ]

What about the drastically cut material at the end and the fact that nothing is explained about why you face malachor alone and where your friends are and the hk 47 droid factory quest which WAS started by picking up the translator on peragus, that was NOT finished it was left hanging after Hk-47 talked about the translater.

 

It is unfinished.

[Jediphile]

Or indeed...

 

What was the outcome of the G0-T0 vs. Remote cutscene?

 

Where did all of the Exile's companions suddenly disappear to?

[Prime]

But it just shows that with another 2-3 months, we could've had a finished kotor game, M4-78 and all.

Oh? Do you even know the reason for why that planet was cut? Is time restrictions the only reason why something will be removed?

[goldberry]

As always, prime makes the facts clear to the *snip* XD

 

Let's use nicer words shall we. I would have used 'n00bs' or 'whiners' myself. -RH

 

Edit: Sorry RH. "whiners"? that's a little childish . Kidding.

[HerbieZ]

It evidently was time restrictions as to why the content was cut. It has been said by nearly every person in this forum and to believe otherwise is shear ignorance of the facts.

[Emperor Devon]

nothing is explained about why you face malachor alone

 

Unlike KotOR, TSL expects you to think about these things. As the Ebon Hawk was extremely damaged, it would have been a stupid idea to just leave it there. It's most likely that the crew was repairing it. If anything, I would wonder about why only two companions can come with you on the Star Forge. The Ebon Hawk was protected by the Jedi, after all.

 

What was the outcome of the G0-T0 vs. Remote cutscene?

 

Isn't it obvious? If you're on the light side, the remote somehow got by Goto to activate the mass shadow generator. If you're on the dark side, the remote fails.

 

the hk 47 droid factory quest which WAS started by picking up the translator on peragus, that was NOT finished it was left hanging after Hk-47 talked about the translater.

 

A minor thing buried deep in HK's dialogue compared to the huge plot hole in KotOR. They never even explain how Revan and Malak fell to the dark side. All that's stated is "something happened to them along the Rim", although it's never explained.

 

It is unfinished.

 

How? All that those cut parts of the game really do is show scenes with obvious outcomes, or add other things that prolong the gameplay and have no relevance to the plot.

[Jediphile]

What was the outcome of the G0-T0 vs. Remote cutscene?

 

Isn't it obvious? If you're on the light side, the remote somehow got by Goto to activate the mass shadow generator. If you're on the dark side, the remote fails.

 

And how? Because the way that scene ends, there is no way the Remote can fulfil his mission, since G0-T0 has total control over him and seems pretty adamant about not allowing Remote to destroy Malachor.

 

Sure, I know what was supposed to happen, but it's still missing from the game itself. And I actually take the fact that the matter is described in the New Essential Guide to Droids (where G0-T0's demise is mentioned, since LSF Exile is canon) to be an admission that this was missing from the game.

 

M4-78 may be cut content, because you don't actually need it in the plot. The same goes for the Genoharadan plot on Nar Shaddaa.

 

I don't think that's true for the G0-T0 vs. Remote scene or the HK factory, since both are pretty essential to how the plot eventually plays out. Without those, the story has plotholes.

[Henz]

Unlike KotOR, TSL expects you to think about these things. As the Ebon Hawk was extremely damaged, it would have been a stupid idea to just leave it there. It's most likely that the crew was repairing it. If anything, I would wonder about why only two companions can come with you on the Star Forge. The Ebon Hawk was protected by the Jedi, after all.

 

 

 

Isn't it obvious? If you're on the light side, the remote somehow got by Goto to activate the mass shadow generator. If you're on the dark side, the remote fails.

 

 

 

A minor thing buried deep in HK's dialogue compared to the huge plot hole in KotOR. They never even explain how Revan and Malak fell to the dark side. All that's stated is "something happened to them along the Rim", although it's never explained.

 

 

 

How? All that those cut parts of the game really do is show scenes with obvious outcomes, or add other things that prolong the gameplay and have no relevance to the plot .

 

My god.

 

 

In bold are words/paragraphs that made me laugh

 

"Most likely" & "somehow" prove there was something missing.

 

The fall of Malak and Revan isn't a plot hole if it was never supposed to be explained in KOTOR. I for one was never expecting it to. However the HK dialogue was clearly in place to be followed up. Whether or not you agree with my view about KOTOR, you can't make TSL comeplete by saying something else is more severly cut.

 

"No relevance to the plot" made me laugh the hardest. The cut content wasn't just relevent to the plot, it WAS the plot.

[HerbieZ]

Unlike KotOR, TSL expects you to think about these things. As the Ebon Hawk was extremely damaged, it would have been a stupid idea to just leave it there. It's most likely that the crew was repairing it.

 

That makes the movie of the Ebon Hawk falling one of the most comical highlights of the game to know as the darkside, your entire party are creamed inside a falling ship.

[Emperor Devon]

And how? Because the way that scene ends, there is no way the Remote can fulfil his mission, since G0-T0 has total control over him and seems pretty adamant about not allowing Remote to destroy Malachor.

 

So? The remote can still 'fulfill' his mission without destroying Goto. All he said was that the remote couldn't move. That little droid had a blaster. He didn't need to move to fire it. And for all we know, he didn't need to. The console the remote activated said the mass shadow generator was powering up. Goto didn't seem to know that, as he said he could permit the remote to activate the generator. For all we know, Goto could've gone on about with his little talk and the generator activated in the middle of it. But as I play as a dark side character, the issue never arises with me.

 

I don't think that's true for the G0-T0 vs. Remote scene or the HK factory, since both are pretty essential to how the plot eventually plays out. Without those, the story has plotholes.

 

You have not responded to the major plothole in KotOR I pointed out.

 

That makes the movie of the Ebon Hawk falling one of the most comical highlights of the game to know as the darkside, your entire party are creamed inside a falling ship.

 

That is not relevant to my point.

[RedHawke]

Oh? Do you even know the reason for why that planet was cut? Is time restrictions the only reason why something will be removed?

Quite so. Why people have a hard time understanding this is really strange to me.

 

When creating a storyline for a game you will cut things out, a large percentage of the original ideas can hit the floor during development, or be replaced by new ideas. It is the way of things.

[WeaponMaster]

Oh? Do you even know the reason for why that planet was cut? Is time restrictions the only reason why something will be removed?

 

 

What other reasons would there be for cutting something as important as this to the game

[Emperor Devon]

What other reasons would there be for cutting something as important as this to the game

 

In threads that are focused on debating, it is a good idea to read all the posts. I shall now quote myself.

 

I am actually helping restore (though more like make) M4-78. While it will be a fun planet to explore and do things on, TSL will be just as "finished" with or without it. It's really just adding extra gameplay.

 

In bold are words/paragraphs that made me laugh

 

You'll live a little longer if you have a happy attitude and laugh often. I'm glad to have helped.

 

"Most likely" & "somehow" prove there was something missing.

 

I do not often like speaking in very black and white terms. I see that my unwillingness to do so resulted in you misinterpreting my statements. When I speak to you in the future, I will be sure to use terms that are easier for you to comprehend.

 

The fall of Malak and Revan isn't a plot hole if it was never supposed to be explained in KOTOR.

 

Were there plans for a KotOR II when KotOR I was released on Xbox? Even if there were, loose ends in a game should be wrapped up in that game.

 

I for one was never expecting it to. However the HK dialogue was clearly in place to be followed up. Whether or not you agree with my view about KOTOR, you can't make TSL comeplete by saying something else is more severly cut.

 

I cannot make TSL more "complete" by pointing that out. But whining about a minor plot hole in one game and ignoring a major one in another game is inconsistent of you.

 

"No relevance to the plot" made me laugh the hardest. The cut content wasn't just relevent to the plot, it WAS the plot.

 

I see my statement proved to complex for you to understand. What I meant was that the things missing from TSL are either scenes with obvious outcomes, OR they are things that prolong the gameplay and have no relevance to the plot. An example of the second thing I listed would the Padawan in the Enclave's sublevel (Kaevee, I think it was?) who controlled the laigreks.

[Feagildin]

Isn't it obvious? If you're on the light side, the remote somehow got by Goto to activate the mass shadow generator. If you're on the dark side, the remote fails.

If anything is obvious, its that Revan and Malak's fall is to be explained in K3. (I really hope they make that game)

 

Just because those of us who are realists admit that TSL is unfinished doesn't mean we didn't enjoy and continue to enjoy the game. It just means we believe its an unfinished game. Personally, I would love to have the plot at the end of the game a little more, shall we say, existent? What happened between Remote and G0-T0? Where did Mira go after killing Hanharr? Where is Bao-Dur? And what about everyone else in the party? What happened, what happened, what happened? As a closing statement, TSL is the most enjoyable game with no ending I've ever played.

[Jediphile]

So? The remote can still 'fulfill' his mission without destroying Goto. All he said was that the remote couldn't move. That little droid had a blaster. He didn't need to move to fire it.

 

Quoting G0-T0 from the game...

Touching. The probability of the Iridonian installing triggered commands within your core was high; I see the probabilities have played out.Of course, the probability that I would do the same is equally high. Your inability to move right now is evidence of that. If the General issues the command, only I will be here to receive it.You realize I cannot permit you... or the exile... to activate the mass shadow generator here on Malachor. In that, your programming and mine... conflict.And since you have no offensive weaponry to speak of, the probability of your programming overwriting mine is low.

 

Note "no offensive weaponry to speak of"... It says rather a lot.

 

And for all we know, he didn't need to. The console the remote activated said the mass shadow generator was powering up. Goto didn't seem to know that, as he said he could permit the remote to activate the generator. For all we know, Goto could've gone on about with his little talk and the generator activated in the middle of it. But as I play as a dark side character, the issue never arises with me.

 

If you're unwilling to consider the LS ending, then what's the point here? After all, it's only in that ending that Malachor V gets destroyed, so there is no question G0-T0 won the fight in that sense.

 

Hmm... Actually, your theory makes me wonder how he stopped Remote in the DS ending, if he didn't know the mass shadow generator was powering up... Seems to me that's either incorrect or else it's another plothole. But from the G0-T0 quote above, I'd assume the former.

 

You have not responded to the major plothole in KotOR I pointed out.

 

Nor do I have to. Indeed, I don't even have to agree that it's a plothole, which is the case here, and therefore irrelevant to me.

[Feagildin]

As for the generator powering up, I always assumed that even though it was charged up, it still needed the final command to activate, and otherwise it would just sit there ready to go without going.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, Obvious "unfinished things" would be:

3) Where goes the rest of your crew, like T3M4, though we know about Remote/HK/G0T0. The whereabouts of Visas and the rest during the M-V incident would need some explanation.

 

2) Bao-Dur, and his Importance (though we could have guessed it with remote, but what of Bao-Dur?) Though maybe they want to make Bao-Dur reappear in the third game.

 

1) HK and him mentioning of the factory, definitely unfinished part DESIGNED to be in the game.

[90SK]

I'm under the impression that Obsidian may have left that last detail in the game as a lead-in to a potential plot aspect in KotOR III, since the HK-50 aspect of the plot is never really resolved.

[Jediphile]

The real problem is that the HK factory is an essential part of the plot, since it impacts how the G0-T0 vs. Remote conflict plays out on Malachor V. But because the HK factory was never quite finished and had to be cut, there was no choice but to cut that part from the end of the game, too, which leaves that part of the tale without any real closure.

 

And of course, what becomes of the rest of the Exile's companions is also quite absent. Sure, we might know what was supposed to happen, but as is, they just disappear into thin air on Malachor V... It still bugs me that Kreia actually says, "When the exile enters the Trayus Academy, he will be faced with a choice...". No, he won't, because it was cut, yet she still says it...

[Henz]

Were there plans for a KotOR II when KotOR I was released on Xbox? Even if there were, loose ends in a game should be wrapped up in that game.

There is no evidence I know of to support the idea that the fall of Malak & Revan was to be tied up, whereas we all know most loose ends in TSL were there because of cut content.

 

 

 

I cannot make TSL more "complete" by pointing that out. But whining about a minor plot hole in one game and ignoring a major one in another game is inconsistent of you.

I was merely stating that pointing out other games' removed material in no way affects what was removed from TSL. I don't care what was cut from KOTOR 1 as it was covered up well. My "whining" is at the TSL story suffering because of a confusing, fragmented, rushed ending.

 

 

I see my statement proved to complex for you to understand. What I meant was that the things missing from TSL are either scenes with obvious outcomes, OR they are things that prolong the gameplay and have no relevance to the plot. An example of the second thing I listed would the Padawan in the Enclave's sublevel (Kaevee, I think it was?) who controlled the laigreks.

But the obvious outcomes were not the ones originally intended. Was the remote supposed to be left, doomed? Who is on the Ebon Hawk as it flies off in the under-whelming final cut scene? Streamlining game-play is thing, and I'm all for working out answers; but TSL forces you to make them up because it couldn't be bothered to itself.

[Henz]

Quite so. Why people have a hard time understanding this is really strange to me.

 

When creating a storyline for a game you will cut things out, a large percentage of the original ideas can hit the floor during development, or be replaced by new ideas. It is the way of things.

 

It's a very good point. People do tend to cling to the cut content, even though it's possible that it was all cut for creative reasons over time/budget.

It's so easy to do though as the ending of the game is so underwhelming.

[Jackel]

A question for those going on about K2 being unfinished.

 

Is K1 in your opinion finished? or unfinished?