The use of deadly force....

[CSI]

No. Well, I mean you should strike back, but in non-lethal way. The Constitution states if person who thinks his or her life is in danger, he/she could use any means to immobilize, but not to kill the abuser, in other words, person should eliminate the abuser as a threat for him/her, but not to kill the abuser. Of course, call 911 first and do your best to immobilize the abuser as the cop is on the way.

[JediMaster12]

I don't think the constitution says that. We have the right to bear arms but that was added in a time when your best friends were the Bible and a gun (Revolutionary times). Maybe a statute says something along those lines but really the constitution outlines the powers of the federal government and the police powers of the states.

[CSI]

I don't think the constitution says that. We have the right to bear arms but that was added in a time when your best friends were the Bible and a gun (Revolutionary times). Maybe a statute says something along those lines but really the constitution outlines the powers of the federal government and the police powers of the states.

 

Yes, the Constitution stated that. It gave us the definition of Self-Defense. Go watch CSI: Miami, Season 3, Episode 4, "Under the Influence" for reference.

[Dark_Lady]

Why go to a TV show? CSI is cool but flawed. Why not just read the Constitution? It's not that long. It never actually mentions self-defense per se, but I'm sure it probably says something beyond the Second Amendment somewhere. Great... now I've got to check.

[JediMaster12]

Thanks Dark Lady for saying that. I just think of TV mentioning the topic but I do the personal research myself. If you are talking about ammendments, is it in the Bill of Rights or the later ones?

[Dark_Lady]

Well, the Second Amendment (in the Bill of Rights) is the one that states we have "the right to keep and bear arms." I've been looking to see if it defines self-defense anywhere, but I can't find it. CSI, could you point me in the right direction?

[swphreak]

I'm fairly certain I am well within my rights to defend myself. If some guy comes at me with a knife, I'll do whatever is necessary to neutralize him. If he dies from my poking his eyes out and bashing his throat in, oh well, the guy shouldn't have freakin' threatened me with a knife.

[Prime]

You use the Three Stooges style of fighting, Phreak?

[swphreak]

Hey, they can't stab me if they can't see me.

[Jae Onasi]

Eyes and larynx (Adam's apple) are great places to gak someone. You can stop someone very quickly with little force by hitting either of those places.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

There are quite a few places on the body that have this effect.

 

Special move one:

Grab attacker by the wrist with both hands. Bring the thumbs and middle fingers together as close as you can and with as much force as you can muster, wring the skin of the wrist like a dishrag, opposite hands going back and forth until attacker is subdued or screams "Uncle" really loud.

 

Special move two:

Grab attacker by the head and stuff his/her neck under your arm pit. While locking him in with one arm, use other hand (fist closed) and run knuckles rapidly from forehead to back of skull until subdued or cry of "Uncle" is heard.

 

Special move three:

Is a secret move and cant' be described here for safety reasons. But it involves pulling the attacker's underwear up from the back to squeeze the bass from his voice.

 

Jae, I'm sure with your training, you've encountered these basic moves along time ago.

[Jae Onasi]

There are quite a few places on the body that have this effect.

Jae, I'm sure with your training, you've encountered these basic moves along time ago.

 

As the oldest of 3 kids, I probably created some new special moves while I was at it.

[JediMaster12]

Do any include daring your older sister to cut the skin between the thumb and first finger? I did that but I didn't know better.

[Jae Onasi]

No, because I wasn't allowed to leave marks. But I did ask her to buy a Freudian slip for me at Sears one time.

[JediMaster12]

Hehe. Well I have my own silly watch dog: my little brother. Even when he was five he stuck up for me and he does now. I have no need to defend myself. He does it for me.

[CSI]

Well, the Second Amendment (in the Bill of Rights) is the one that states we have "the right to keep and bear arms." I've been looking to see if it defines self-defense anywhere, but I can't find it. CSI, could you point me in the right direction?

 

No, "the right to keep and bear arms" is not same as "Self-Defense".

 

Well, I don't know where it is exactly, but I know somewhere it got to be mentioned, I think.

[Totenkopf]

Took a look online at US Constitution and amendments. Nothing addressing the right to seld defense. Probably no need, then or now, to codify that concept into such a document. Ultimately, you are at the mercy of due process and your peers w/ regard to determining whether you acted in self defense or not.

[CSI]

Took a look online at US Constitution and amendments. Nothing addressing the right to seld defense. Probably no need, then or now, to codify that concept into such a document. Ultimately, you are at the mercy of due process and your peers w/ regard to determining whether you acted in self defense or not.

 

First, I'm sorry, I don't catch this phrase: "seld defense", what's it?

 

Second, you mean, common sense. But, I really don't think two attempted murders make the case solved, right? So at least you should just disarm the murderer, not to execute him/her back. If you do so, you will commit a felony, Murder. 25 Years to Life and it's just for starters.

[Totenkopf]

"Seld" was just a typo, didn't catch it unfortunately.

 

Not sure about your second point exactly. Laws and statutes will define what constitutes justifiable self-defense from a legal standpoint. Your statement should probably say two attempted "killings", not murders, which is something that would be adjudicated in court. That's why I say "at the mercy". Either a judge or jury will make that final legal decision that could send you away for 25 to life.

[Bimmerman]

Self defense is not in the constitution. the second amendment states that you have the right to own and bear arms, but nothing about the regulation of their use. that issue, as with most things, is left up to the states. the right to self defense is not universal in the US, in some states killing is illegal no matter what the conditions. In colorado, it is justified in only the slimmest of chances, fearing for your life on your own property. There is no federal right to defend yourself against your peers, only the right to own and bear arms.

[mur'phon]

My personal oppinion is, never kill anyone, not even in self defence. Instead learn to defend your self using nonlethal fighting techniques. Of course this is easy for me to say who live in a country where owning a gun is going to earn you a few years in jail. Also, to own a rifle you must have a (almost) clean record, and pass a test including an examination by a doctor. This means that in most cases the weapon used is going to be a knife, and with proper training or a dog, it is unlikely that someone is going to kill you. I can see that this is diferent in a country where everyone can have a gun, but I still think that proper training and a dog is going to get you trough most situations.

 

And something that I dont think everyone here have considered.

Most attacks/killings is done by a close relative or someone the victim knew.

So to those who would kill in self defence without hesitating, what if it where your girlfriend/boyfriend, a family member or your best friend.

 

As for myself, I know I wouldnt pull the trigger/ slit the throat of anyone, not even to save myself.

[machievelli]

The problem as i see it, is that society as a whole is repusled by the idea, and would stop you if you tried to defend yourself. The Standard anti-handgun lobby answer is 'call the police and let them handle it', But in a normal city it takes anywhere from five minutes to an hour for thenm to show up. when we reported a stolwen shotgun they took 45 minutes, and spent the half hour they were here telling us that 'buying' a shotgun didn;t mean we had 'registered' it, and if we were so effing stupid it wouldn't have been stolen.

 

I myself prefer the sword. It's cheapm needs no ammunition, It is easy to learn the operation of the device, it always works, and just drawing it will, like a pump action shotgun being jacked, convince your attacker there are more imprtant places to be.

 

The argument usually given that states a criminal has rights as far as I am concerned is as follows. He had a right to invade my home, I have a right to defend it, and if he doesn;t beat feet this instant I will gladly bury him on my soil.

[Fish.Stapler]

Let me toss in my perspective on this. This is a story my dad would always tell me (and yes, it does happen to unfortunately be true) when discussing the use of force. Paraphrased a little, but you'll get the idea.

 

"When I was 13, I was being taunted on my way home from school by the usual group that bullies everyone, blah blah, whatever. I shrugged it off. When I didn't respond, they got further and further in my face, and ended up running in front of me to do the tough guy, pengiun-style "beat chest, display manliness" kind of thing.

 

I tried to talk them into just letting me go, to no avail. I ended up tossing some rather vile insults in their faces and pushing past since it was a long walk home and I wanted to rest. The ringleader didn't take too nicely to these insults and pulled a knife on me.

 

I was scared, for obvious reasons, and I tried to talk him out of this, much more civily this time. He didn't take too kindly to it, and ended up slashing at me. At that moment, I didn't care that I was outnumbered 5 to 1, or that he had a knife, I wanted to make sure I got out of there alive."

 

To spare you the rest of the details, dad won the fight in about 10 seconds. He hospitalized the other person. There was somewhat of an outcry over why he did this, but it worked out okay in the end.

 

As an avid reader, I want to add my perspective on this. If someone threatens me in any way and they use physical force of any sort, I will not hesitate to beat them into a pulp. Not lethal, but certainly debilitating injuries that make sure they will NEVER want to hurt me again. Take the example of Ender Wiggin (Ender's Game series). Constantly threatened by other children, he uses force to make sure that none of them will ever hurt him again. Ever.

 

"The power to cause pain is the only power that matters, the power to kill and destroy, because if you can't kill then you are always subject to those who can, and nothing and no one will ever save you."

 

"[why he attacked a boy who was down] "Knocking him down won the first fight. I wanted to win all the next ones too."

 

"Ender knew at this moment he might be able to walk out of the room and end the battle. But the battle would only be fought again. Again and again until the will to fight was finished. The only way to end things completely was to hurt Bonzo enough that his fear was stronger than his hate."

 

"It was just him and me. He fought with honor. If it weren't for his honor, he and the others would have beaten me together. They might have killed me, then. His sense of honor saved my life. I didn't fight with honor... I fought to win."

 

(bolded above quotes are courtesy of Ender Wiggin).

 

These pretty much sum up the way I feel about this. I will do my best to talk you out of trying to hurt me, but if you make an attempt on my life, so help me God, I will beat you so hard that you won't be able to/want to come after me again.

[machievelli]

I understand the feeling. During my Junior year in HS, had made a comment that you didn't want to p--- a little guy off because he would fight to kill rather than to win. One of the seniors who outweighed me by about seventy pounds (Picture me as 5' nothing, 97 pounds soaking wet) who proceeded to try to egg me into a fight for the nest two weeks. Triooing me, slapping me out his way to get to a locker, throwing books at me in class.

 

On the 12th day he got his wish. I was irritaed about something, I don;t know what, and he picked me up and slammed me into my open locker. 'What does it take to get you mad?"

 

In the novel 'The Mirror of my Love, I described the feeling of what the Celts and Norse call Berserkergang, the berserk fury the Vikings are so known for. I wrote it not from experience, but from as the military would say, 'after action reports'.

 

Accroding to the witnesses, I sighed, set down my books, took his wrist as if I were going to lead him somehere, put his arm into my locker and said 'that will do'. At which point I slammed the locker on his arm four times breaking both of his forearm bones, picked him up with one hand, ran him into the opposite wall a foot off the ground, then as he began to collapsed locked my hands on his neck trying to rip his troat out. Three people finally pulled me off of him.

 

I didn't get punished. The teachers wanted to at least susspend me if not have me arrested but the guy I had almost killed and half a dozen witnesses told them what had happened for over a week, and they figured on letting it slide.

 

I wasn't bothered during my next two years.

[JediMaster12]

I didn't get punished. The teachers wanted to at least susspend me if not have me arrested but the guy I had almost killed and half a dozen witnesses told them what had happened for over a week, and they figured on letting it slide.

You were lucky that you weren't arrested for assault mach. That didn't even constitute self defense. You had mitigating circumstances I would say that worked in your favor. I hope the bully's family didn't do anything.