Neverwinter Nights 2 (May Contain Spoilers!! - Please Use Tags)

[SpaceAlex]

Using the middle mouse button seems to be the easiest option for controlling the elevation and orientation. The odd thing is, stoffe, while I agree that in many ways the toolset really is an interface nightmare - I've never had any stability issues at all. Strange the way different setups yield different results, eh?

 

I've never had any crashes either. It's very stable on my PC, although it can be slow sometimes (try to paint an armor..it takes ages to change a color )

 

The interface is also a problem, but i'm guessing that once you get used to it, it's fine. Overall, i don't think the toolset is that bad. Not much worse than Oblivion's anyway.

[Point Man]

Speaking of the toolset, do you have any idea how to properly build a module? It's so simple with KotOR, though with the toolset all the contents of the module is erased if I ever open it again after saving it.

I would recommend Neverwinter Nights 2 World Editor Guide by Phillip Marcus. I have never done any modding in my life, and it is helping me a lot with my first attempt. It really explains a lot of the things I have seen people asking about with regard to the toolset.

 

There are still some bugs that agravate me, like the one that will not allow me to place my newly created custom items in a chest, armor rack, etc. unless I save the new item into my module, save my module, close and reopen the toolset. You can see how that would get annoying after awhile.

 

I'm not sure why you would be losing your module saves. I have kept mine. When you open your mod are you seeing the areas show up in the areas window on the left?

[Emperor Devon]

@stoffe, I'll have to get to your post later. I don't have the time to reply to it all right now.

 

I would recommend Neverwinter Nights 2 World Editor Guide by Phillip Marcus. I have never done any modding in my life, and it is helping me a lot with my first attempt. It really explains a lot of the things I have seen people asking about with regard to the toolset.

 

Does it address the toolset's many random hiccups (such as this)? I've modded KotOR for a few years and NWN 1 for about half of one, so I'm familiar with the modding system already.

 

There are still some bugs that agravate me, like the one that will not allow me to place my newly created custom items in a chest, armor rack, etc. unless I save the new item into my module, save my module, close and reopen the toolset. You can see how that would get annoying after awhile.

 

I've completely lost my patience with the item creating. I just dump the item somewhere on a floor, or put in an an NPC's inventory. Exiting and saving took long enough with the NWN 1 toolset, let alone this one.

 

I'm not sure why you would be losing your module saves. I have kept mine. When you open your mod are you seeing the areas show up in the areas window on the left?

 

It got rid of them entirely. Perhaps it's due to that 'baking' feature (sheesh, KotOR and NWN 1 never needed such a thing), though I'll probably be able to discover why after experimenting with several modules.

[Pavlos]

Baking is to do with the walkmesh .

 

From what I understand, the walkmesh contains all the data about the rolling terrain, be that what it looks like, or whether or not you can run beyond that rise over there. It also controls the data for tile sets too (though it seems you can place tiles down and save without baking and still see the tiles - you cannot walk on them, however). When you bake, the area saves so it shouldn't really be all that much trouble for you.

[Point Man]

It got rid of them entirely. Perhaps it's due to that 'baking' feature (sheesh, KotOR and NWN 1 never needed such a thing), though I'll probably be able to discover why after experimenting with several modules.

You do not have to bake to save your module. Baking makes placeable objects or areas unwalkable. You have to bake in order to move around in your module when you want to test it, but not to save it.

[Jae Onasi]

Geez, you guys sound like you're making bread or cookies or something, rather than modding the game.

[Pavlos]

Just for anyone who hasn't realised yet: NWN2 1.04 final has been released

 

Edit: I can't be certain but the new autopatcher seems to respect edited files, so no more reinstalling every time there is a new patch (it seems).

[stoffe]

Just for anyone who hasn't realised yet: NWN2 1.04 final has been released

 

Well, that patch certainly gives the impression of being rushed. What I've noticed during my first 5 minutes of testing:

• There's a group of radio buttons on the options screen without any text caption on them saying what they are for.
   
  
• Half the entries in the Voicechat menu have "(null)" instead of a descriptive name, and some play the wrong animation.
   
  
• Any voicechat commands you move the the quickbar gets dimmed whenever you're shapechanged or polymorphed (though they still work if you use the voicechat menu instead)
   
  
• I can't move/drag anything into the new extra Quickbars you can add to the screen. For some reason the extra quickbar decided to mirror one of the quickbar pages on the main bar, but I can't figure out how you set which.
   
  
• Spell Resistance granted by items still expire after being hit by a single spell (making creatures such as Fiends much easier for spellcasters to deal with since even the SR 31 of a Pit Fiend will vanish if you cast Ray of Frost once on it).
  

 

Makes you wonder if they do any testing at all before releasing those patches. Feels more like an early beta than a Final version to me.

[Jae Onasi]

OK, I gotta learn how to mod this game so that Casavir can actually give his lady at least a hug, if not a kiss, instead of standing 10 feet away from her declaring his love....

Sheesh.

[stoffe]

OK, I gotta learn how to mod this game so that Casavir can actually give his lady at least a hug, if not a kiss, instead of standing 10 feet away from her declaring his love....

Sheesh.

 

Seems like both Bioware and Obsidian favor long-distance relationships. Was the same in KotOR with Revan and Carth shouting their love across the beach on the Rakatan Homeworld.

 

Not much in the way of romances in NWN2. Even the HotU expansion pack was much better in that regard.

[SpaceAlex]

Seems like both Bioware and Obsidian favor long-distance relationships. Was the same in KotOR with Revan and Carth shouting their love across the beach on the Rakatan Homeworld.

 

I guess Bastila and male Revan's relationship was portayed better...with a black screen Oh well, at least they were standing close to each other.

[Arátoeldar]

Well, that patch certainly gives the impression of being rushed. What I've noticed during my first 5 minutes of testing:

• There's a group of radio buttons on the options screen without any text caption on them saying what they are for.
   
  
• Half the entries in the Voicechat menu have "(null)" instead of a descriptive name, and some play the wrong animation.
   
  
• Any voicechat commands you move the the quickbar gets dimmed whenever you're shapechanged or polymorphed (though they still work if you use the voicechat menu instead)
   
  
• I can't move/drag anything into the new extra Quickbars you can add to the screen. For some reason the extra quickbar decided to mirror one of the quickbar pages on the main bar, but I can't figure out how you set which.
   
  
• Spell Resistance granted by items still expire after being hit by a single spell (making creatures such as Fiends much easier for spellcasters to deal with since even the SR 31 of a Pit Fiend will vanish if you cast Ray of Frost once on it).
  

 

Makes you wonder if they do any testing at all before releasing those patches. Feels more like an early beta than a Final version to me.

 

They screwed up quick casting from 1.03 to 1.04. In the 1.04 version you target your NPCs not your enemies.

[Jae Onasi]

Dumb question--do you have it on hardcore, Aratoelder? Your NPCs will take damage from spells if they happen to be in the area/cone/line of effect.

I discovered this when Jimbo had turned it to hardcore for his new game (and I didn't realize it also affected mine), and I started playing and saw that Sand had just done 71 points of damage to all my party members with some uber-spell.

[Darth333]

I tried the new patch yesterday and had to uninstall almost instantly. It seems to me that it breaks more things than it fixes. I couldn't even access the quickcast menu by pressing "f" (and no quick cast for a warlock makes the game unplayable) , nor toggle the minimap on/off. I wonder if they did any testing themselves or if they just left it to the community to report the bugs from the beta patch...

 

Maybe it would be worth mentioning those bugs here: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=545775&forum=109

[stoffe]

I couldn't even access the quickcast menu by pressing "f" , nor toggle the minimap on/off.

 

Hmm, haven't noticed any problems with the quick-cast or minimap. Try resetting your key-bindings to the defaults and re-set them, it's possible one of the INI files have become messed up during the update.

[SpaceAlex]

The game works fine for me, with the patch. Maybe you should delete nwn.ini or nwnplayer.ini and try again.

[Arátoeldar]

Dumb question--do you have it on hardcore, Aratoelder? Your NPCs will take damage from spells if they happen to be in the area/cone/line of effect.

I discovered this when Jimbo had turned it to hardcore for his new game (and I didn't realize it also affected mine), and I started playing and saw that Sand had just done 71 points of damage to all my party members with some uber-spell.

 

When I press "F" the quick spell menu comes up. After I have selected the offensive spell that I want. I can only target my my NPCs not the enemy. Yet casting the same spell from a quick slot works fine.

 

Edit: This is on the normal difficulty.

 

Edit2: Yes I know how AoE spells work I have been playing PnP-CRPG DnD games since version 1.0. Hell I remember the first edition of "Legends of Lore" containing H.P. Lovecraft Call of Cthulhu information. There was another mythos group that was included only in the very first edition of "Legends of Lore". However I cannot remember what group that was.

[Jae Onasi]

Sorry Aratoelder, I wasn't trying to make you look dumb or be patronizing.

In problem solving I start with the simplest/obvious stuff first, and the hardcore thing had just happened to me like a day or 2 prior, so it was fresh in my mind. If we had installed the patch right about then, I would have assumed it was a patch problem and not necessarily have thought to check to see if the hardcore setting had also been applied to my game when Jimbo changed it for his.

And off on a tangent, I wonder if the devs ever thought about more than one family member playing the game at the same time and allowing the difficulty settings to be individualized by each player for their own personal play-throughs.

[stoffe]

And off on a tangent, I wonder if the devs ever thought about more than one family member playing the game at the same time and allowing the difficulty settings to be individualized by each player for their own personal play-throughs.

 

Do you use your own user accounts on the computer? From what I can see there is a Difficulty setting in the nwnplayer.ini file that is kept in the NWN2 folder inside the user-unique My Documents folder.

[Jae Onasi]

We don't have separate user accounts, but we could try that. And unless we're missing something, they don't have an option in the save/load game section for different characters like they do in TSL, so all our savegames are jumbled together. We solved the problem by putting our first initial in each of our own savegames, but it'd be nice if we could organize the savegames by player.

[stoffe]

We don't have separate user accounts, but we could try that. And unless we're missing something, they don't have an option in the save/load game section for different characters like they do in TSL, so all our savegames are jumbled together.

 

If you use separate accounts on the computer that should take care of this too, since savegames are stored in the NWN2 folder inside My Documents as well. Just keep in mind that anything you put inside this folder (mods, characters etc) only will be available when that user is logged in on the computer. Things that should take effect for everyone needs to be put inside the main NWN2 folder.

[Arátoeldar]

Sorry Aratoelder, I wasn't trying to make you look dumb or be patronizing.

In problem solving I start with the simplest/obvious stuff first, and the hardcore thing had just happened to me like a day or 2 prior, so it was fresh in my mind. If we had installed the patch right about then, I would have assumed it was a patch problem and not necessarily have thought to check to see if the hardcore setting had also been applied to my game when Jimbo changed it for his.

No problem Jae.

 

I am running three different characters my first time through. I have no problems moving save files in and out of the Save folder.

 

Edit: Do what stoffe posted and you shouldn't have any problems.

[Jae Onasi]

Spoiler Warning

 

 

 

 

 

Ending:

 

Narrator: Yay!!!! You beat the King of Shadows!!!!

Too bad you're dead. So sorry.

 

 

 

OK, what class to play for the next playthru--so many possibilities....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler warning

[Emperor Devon]

!

Too bad you're dead. So sorry.

 

 

It happens whether you want to replace the KoS in the typical bad guy manner, too. I could swear Obsidian thought up that ending just to annoy the fans.

 

Nothing modding can't fix... Provided you can get the toolset to work, and that it won't conflict with the patches.

 

OK, what class to play for the next playthru--so many possibilities....

 

I'd try a spellcasting class (wizard, cleric, warlock, etc). Preferably with a different gender and alignment, too - my playthrough as a lawful good female paladin has been very different from being a lawful evil male wizard.

[stoffe]

Ending:

Narrator: Yay!!!! You beat the King of Shadows!!!!

OK, what class to play for the next playthru--so many possibilities....

 

The ending narration was one of the worst game endings I've seen in quite a while, almost rivalling the awful ending in Planescape:Torment. But, given the ending in TSL (and that some of the PS:Torment designers now work at Obsidian) that probably shouldn't have come as a big surprise. Good endings seem to be hard to make, even in otherwise good games.

 

 

 

Though techicaly you aren't really pronounced dead, just that the old Illefarn temple collapses around you. Since I still had the Tome of Iltkhazar in my inventory I prefer to assume they used it to escape to another plane (NWN:SoU-style) rather than get killed by falling debris.

 

 

 

As for class I would second eDevon's suggestion to pick a spellcasting class, since those require quite a different approach to playing. Trying another approach on the Law/Chaos scale or a different race or gender can lead to dialog differences as well.

 

My first playthrough was as a Female Aasimar Cleric (Lawful Good), my current one is a Female Dark Elf Warlock (Chaotic Good), and I've seen numerous small gameplay differences between the two games so far.

 

 

It happens whether you want to replace the KoS in the typical bad guy manner, too. I could swear Obsidian thought up that ending just to annoy the fans.

Nothing modding can't fix... Provided you can get the toolset to work, and that it won't conflict with the patches.

 

Those are both problems for the moment though (half-broken toolset and auto-updater conflicts if messing with the campaign modules). Personally I think I'll just stop playing after the end battle and skip the ending narration entirely.