Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win

[CSI]

A lot of people refers to Revan than Nihilus.

 

BTW, welcome to LF, Obsidianian S_W_LeGenD.

[JawaJoey]

And how can you say that he will be even more weakened and that too due to the reason that he is far more powerful then those average Sith on Ravager? Did Sion got so much weakened by just standing close to Nihilus that he was no longer capable enough to launch an attack on him? The point is that your logic is heavily flawed.

 

 

And I have already pointed out that how Revan can attack from a large distance. Also, Nihilus needs to know the position of an enemy to launch his Drain attack on that enemy in close encounters. Draining a planet is different from Draining an individual in a one-on-one situation.

 

 

If you are using "Ravager" as the fighting place then Nihilus does have advantage.

 

 

And since when Revan have been compared to others in canonical sources in terms of power?

 

Also, Revan had accomplished far more then many other Sith Lords and only Sidious rivalled his accomplishments - 4000 years later. And their are only a few Jedi and Sith, who were more powerful then Revan. You surely need to open your eyes now.

 

 

Darth Sidious and Palpatine are same individuals.

 

And only Palpatine and Luke are more powerful then Revan in your list. The rest are close and thats it.

 

 

Yeah! Revan was sleeping in the Star Forge actually and that entire army of Sith was killed by his (not so powerful) companions.

 

And since when did Exile, kreia and Sion became more powerful then Revan?

 

 

Those Sith were normal individuals and were his slaves.

 

 

Yeah! since GL does not gives much importance to EU so any amount of BS can be thrown in it.

 

Star Wars canon sources confirm Darth Sidious to be the most powerful Sith Lord and by your logic, Nihilus will WTF-Pawn him and shoud be crowned as the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars Saga.

 

 

Nopes! Ragnos and Vader are most over-rated individuals.

 

 

Because you are blind to the truth and your personal bias against Revan clouds your judgement regarding him.

 

 

Yeah! and thats why Mandalorians said that it was Revan who turned the tide in the war and they were badly defeated.

 

And Malak and Exile only followed Revan.

 

 

And they were getting pawned badly by Mandalorian forces in every battle until Revan arrived on the scene and led the Republic forces to victory.

 

Almost all of your arguements are flawed.

 

Ok, I said you were wrong before, about Lightning and the Rancors and stuff, but you're pretty much absolutely correct right here. Thank you.

 

But while I like Revan, I like him most because he is NOT some uber-force-god. Sure, Revan may have been the strongest force-user of his time, but I dare say he pales if compared to Yoda or any of the Skywalkers. He is strong in the force, but there are limits, and that's what I like about Revan - he's not just some half-clever guy soaked in uber-powers. He's far closer to an "ordinary" jedi and special mostly for how sneaky and clever he is. To give him unique powers that nobody else has is to cheapen the traits that were his real strengths, which was his strategic mind and his utter dedication to his cause.

 

Excellent thought right there. I think Revan is awesome, and there is no doubt that he was very powerful in the force, but he is not the most powerful jedi ever, he is not supernatural in his abilities. He is very clever.

 

 

About him defending the republic, and sacrificing himself, I believe that he was more concerned with saving the galaxy than he was the Republic. He sought to end destructive conflict, and the weakness of the Republic. He wanted one strong empire, capable of fighting the True Sith, and he thought that the Republic was not that empire. So he set out to gain control of the galaxy, so that he could defend it adequately. His objective was not to save or destroy the republic itself.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I grow tired of this. I don't know what more I can say to get this across to you. Revan had no special Lightning ability called Force Lightning Storm. He cannot drain DS energies: he simply used the power of the Trayus Core. I quote Jediphile to prove that statement.

 

Kreia: "There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death. Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side.Did you never wonder how Revan corrupted so many of the Jedi, so much of the Republic, so quickly?The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion.Culminating a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from... save one."

Nihilus can use his power from either afar or near. He used it on the surface of Katarr to absorb all life from the Jedi, and he uses it from afar on the Ravager as he sucks life from other worlds across the galaxy. And we also see that he attempts to use his drain ability in the fight with the Exile, but since the Exile is dead to the Force, it doesn't work.

 

Star Wars canon sources confirm Darth Sidious to be the most powerful Sith Lord and by your logic, Nihilus will WTF-Pawn him and shoud be crowned as the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars Saga.

Uh...actually, yea. He is an extremely powerful individual, and he could use the drain just as well on Sidious as he could Revan, Sion, or any other Jedi that he has killed.

 

Because you are blind to the truth and your personal bias against Revan clouds your judgement regarding him.

He is not blind to the truth, and, imo, you are the one allowing your personal bias for Revan to cloud your judgment. The evidence is completely in my favor and those who agree with me.

 

Also, the Republic would have won the Mandalorian Wars, with or without Revan. If Revan didn't go to war, then Malak and the Exile would have led the charge.

Actually, the Mandalorians were countering the Republic's every move. It was not until Revan came in that the Republic began to fight back.

[The Architect]

And how can you say that he will be even more weakened and that too due to the reason that he is far more powerful then those average Sith on Ravager? Did Sion got so much weakened by just standing close to Nihilus that he was no longer capable enough to launch an attack on him? The point is that your logic is heavily flawed.

 

The Sion vs. Nihilus scene is cut content though, so it doesn't officially count.

 

And I have already pointed out that how Revan can attack from a large distance. Also, Nihilus needs to know the position of an enemy to launch his Drain attack on that enemy in close encounters. Draining a planet is different from Draining an individual in a one-on-one situation.

 

Tell me, how could Revan resist Nihilus' drain power in a 'one-on-one' situation?

 

And since when Revan have been compared to others in canonical sources in terms of power?

 

What's your point? I never said that Revan has been compared to others in canonical sources in terms of power.

 

Darth Sidious and Palpatine are same individuals.

 

Yes I know. I forgot that I already had Palpatine on my list, when I included Darth Sidious. Besides, I never said they were the same person. It was just a mistake.

 

And only Palpatine and Luke are more powerful then Revan in your list. The rest are close and thats it.

 

How do you know that? Whether Revan was more powerful than any of those individuals depends entirely upon our own point of view.

 

Yeah! Revan was sleeping in the Star Forge actually and that entire army of Sith was killed by his (not so powerful) companions.

 

You do realise the difference between gameplay and the plot, right? As if Revan would have fought all those Sith on the Star Forge alone.

 

And since when did Exile, kreia and Sion became more powerful then Revan?

 

Since when didn't they? Besides, I said that I think they are more powerful, not that they actually are. There's a difference.

 

Nopes! Ragnos and Vader are most over-rated individuals.

 

Overrated how? As far as I can tell, Revan is the only character who the fan boys claim is a perfect, ultra cool mega genius force god who would beat anyone in combat.

 

Because you are blind to the truth and your personal bias against Revan clouds your judgement regarding him.

 

Perhaps my personal bias against Revan clouds my judgement, but blind to the truth? Prove that Revan was a 'great military genius'. Good leader? Yes. Powerful force user? Yes. Great military genius? Perhaps, but tell me something strategically brilliant that Revan did in the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Yeah! and thats why Mandalorians said that it was Revan who turned the tide in the war and they were badly defeated.

 

So? That could just mean that Revan was powerful, not a military genius. If Malak won the Jedi Civil War, would that make him a military genius? Winning a war doesn't make you a military genius.

 

And Malak and Exile only followed Revan.

 

Who's to say they still wouldn't have gone to war? Remember, Malak was just as keen as what Revan was to fight the Mandalorians.

 

And they were getting pawned badly by Mandalorian forces in every battle until Revan arrived on the scene and led the Republic forces to victory.

 

So? How does that make Revan a military genius?

 

Almost all of your arguements are flawed.

 

Think whatever you like. If anybody's arguments are flawed around here, it's yours.

[SilentScope001]

This thread is turning into a topic on Revan. Someone should make a seperate topic so we can talk about Revan, he's an intersting character...

 

Great military genius? Perhaps, but tell me something strategically brilliant that Revan did in the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Simple. He sent a large batallion of Republic men (conviently filled with traitors and those who are disloyal to Revan) to Malachor V. This was a trap, and the Mandalorians took it.

 

They sent their armies to battle the Republic men. In the middle of the battle, Exile used the MSG and blew up the Mandlorains and the Republic army.

 

Ta-da! That was stragerically billirant. He got rid of two great foes: The Mandlorains, and the Jedi who would not submit to his rule (by converting or by killing them). He even neturalized The Exile, by making him feel pain and misery from the bonds and having him leave known space, so that he wouldn't cause any harm to Revan. He used the simple bait-and-switch tactic, and is willing to kill off all his men.

 

If that doesn't sound like a man of great stragery, well, that's the only detail we have of Revan's military prowess. Tells more about Revan's descend to the Dark Side than anything else.

 

Jediphile: That was my point that you have mentioned, and tried to tell others...that Revan, in fact, is evil. Revan wanted to save the galaxy but destroyed the Republic in the process. Like Goto, Revan saw the bigger picture, and did not concern himself with good or evil. At least, that is what I think. K3 is needed to learn more.

 

What I'd be interested in is why Revan would do all this to prevent the True Sith from taking over. Maybe the True Sith is worse than the loss of liberty that would happen thanks to Revan's Sith Empire. Another thing is why Revan wanted to perseve the Galaxy...sounds a bit strange. I doubt all the answers will be given, but it is these details that makes the game interesting.

[RedHawke]

Well while I like Revan, I wouldn't even be tempted to think that Nihilus would be beaten by him... it would be possible for Revan to beat Nihilus, but it would take much planning and 'chess games' to do so, and even still would need to be from a 'safe' distance. Like with a Resonance Torpedo.

 

In a straight up fight Nihilus would dominate most all he faced, as his life draining power allows him to do so, only someone versed with this power could defend themselves from it.

 

Another note: Kreia was mistaken in claiming the power could not be taught, it actually is a learnable skill called Drain Life Energy (Nihilus' power was likely taken from the D6 RPG). And yes, you could indeed drain entire worlds with said power. Nihilus was an unusual example in that he had a 'hunger' attached to the power, but the power remains the same.

 

Edit: *Puts on mod hat* Let's keep the discussion civil folks. Mkay!

[The Architect]

I guess I have a habit of speaking with my heart rather than my head, if that makes sense. I do like Revan, mainly because of the reasons Jediphile said, plus the fact that I played as Revan.

 

I have been harsh on Revan. SilentScope001, I was already aware of what Revan did. I must say, it was an impressive tactic. I guess I can't deny that Revan was at least a 'good' strategist.

 

Still, I wouldn't say he/she was a 'genius' tactician, because although he/she may have been, the details of what Revan did in the Mandalorian Wars are vague.

 

Obsidian at least made an effort to discuss the things that Revan did, said and planned in the Mandalorian Wars, unlike BioWare. If you ask me, you can learn more about Revan in K2 than what you do in K1. So, I admit I was being too hard on Revan. I like Revan. I still like many more Star Wars characters more than Revan though.

 

Now, back on topic. At the end of the day, this discussion is pointless, as the outcome of a fight is whatever the author/s want it to be. However, the knowledge of K2 tells me that if Nihilus' can wipe out hundreds of Jedi on Katarr, then he can deal with one force user, powerful or not.

 

The only reason Nihilus lost to the Exile in the first place was because the Exile is a wound in the force. Sure, Nihilus was piss easy to beat in the game, but that doesn't mean he is weak and Revan would beat him. That's just a gameplay issue.

[S_W_LeGenD]

The Sion vs. Nihilus scene is cut content though, so it doesn't officially count.

Some people say that it is canon material.

 

Tell me, how could Revan resist Nihilus' drain power in a 'one-on-one' situation?

It depends that if Revan gets caught in Nihilus's Force Drain in a "one-on-one" scenario or not, because it is not like that Nihilus will always make the first move. And Revan's resistance to DS powers is very good because he absorbs DS power. When he landed on Malachor V, the DS energies in that planet were too dangerous to him but he survived by sheer force of his will and he fed on the DS Power to stay alive. Also, Malak knew Force Drain and many other DS Force moves but his powers failed on Revan and that is because Revan absorbs DS powers. The point is that Revan's resistance will be much better then expected and I also believe that Nihilus's Force Drain is a power to be feared.

 

What's your point? I never said that Revan has been compared to others in canonical sources in terms of power.

But you were stating that many others are more powerful then Revan and this is canonically not confirmed and true. So your supposition is wrong.

 

Yes I know. I forgot that I already had Palpatine on my list, when I included Darth Sidious. Besides, I never said they were the same person. It was just a mistake.

OK! I understand.

 

How do you know that? Whether Revan was more powerful than any of those individuals depends entirely upon our own point of view.

From Darth Bane POD Novel: Darth Bane—recently proclaimed a Dark Lord himself—traveled to Lehon in search of power enough to topple the existing Sith regime, the Brotherhood of Darkness. Once there, he discovered Revan's holocron and from it received training and instruction that, in his opinion, surpassed the entirety of Korriban Academy's archives.

 

Revan's mastery in force was so great that it surpassed the entirety of Sith knowledge found in a Sith Planet called "Korriban" (and this planet was already rich with Sith secrets).

 

And the reason behind this is that Revan has explored the worlds of Malachor V and Korriban in quest for great knowledge in Ancient Sith Arts and he learned a huge number of Sith secrets from these worlds.

 

You do realise the difference between gameplay and the plot, right? As if Revan would have fought all those Sith on the Star Forge alone.

Canonically, Revan's companions followed him on Star Forge for not a long time as Revan faced Bastilla and Malak and their elite legions alone. And not all of his companions followed him as some had to stay in the ship to protect it from possible ambushes.

 

Since when didn't they? Besides, I said that I think they are more powerful, not that they actually are. There's a difference.

They have never shown accomplishments that rival Revan's. Their is a concept that "the more powerful you are, the more you will accomplish".

 

Narration by Yuthura Ban (regarding Revan): "I hear he was a very powerful man. Very charismatic."

 

Take an example of Darth Sidious: he was also very powerful, charismatic and a brilliant strategist as well (like Darth Revan) and he accomplished a lot.

Overrated how? As far as I can tell, Revan is the only character who the fan boys claim is a perfect, ultra cool mega genius force god who would beat anyone in combat.

Not all think like this. And I never think like this but I believe that he is among the most powerful characters in Star Wars Saga and canonical sources have already provided us hints.

 

Perhaps my personal bias against Revan clouds my judgement, but blind to the truth? Prove that Revan was a 'great military genius'. Good leader? Yes. Powerful force user? Yes. Great military genius? Perhaps, but tell me something strategically brilliant that Revan did in the Mandalorian Wars.

Narration by Canderous Ordo (regarding Revan): "His strategies and tactics defeated the best of us. Even Mandalore himself was taken aback by the ferocity of his attacks, the tenacity of his defenses and and the subtlety of his plans."

 

Need I say more?

 

So? That could just mean that Revan was powerful, not a military genius. If Malak won the Jedi Civil War, would that make him a military genius? Winning a war doesn't make you a military genius.

Revan was very powerful and a military genius as well.

 

Another narration by Canderous Ordo: "You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor."

 

And I have already mentioned his narration (regarding Revan), which makes it clear that Revan was a military genius.

Who's to say they still wouldn't have gone to war? Remember, Malak was just as keen as what Revan was to fight the Mandalorians.

It was Revan who inspired them to join him in the war and reject the decision of Jedi Council.

 

So? How does that make Revan a military genius?

I have provided a hint above.

 

Think whatever you like. If anybody's arguments are flawed around here, it's yours.

Not necessarily.

 

A lot of people refers to Revan than Nihilus.

 

BTW, welcome to LF, Obsidianian S_W_LeGenD.

Thanks for welcoming me!

[Jediphile]

It depends that if Revan gets caught in Nihilus's Force Drain in a "one-on-one" scenario or not, because it is not like that Nihilus will always make the first move. And Revan's resistance to DS powers is very good because he absorbs DS power. When he landed on Malachor V, the DS energies in that planet were too dangerous to him but he survived by sheer force of his will and he fed on the DS Power to stay alive. Also, Malak knew Force Drain and many other DS Force moves but his powers failed on Revan and that is because Revan absorbs DS powers. The point is that Revan's resistance will be much better then expected and I also believe that Nihilus's Force Drain is a power to be feared.

 

I think you're reading an awful lot into that ability. Yes, Revan survived by absorbing ds powers, but how much of a feat is that, really? Revan was overcome by the dark side, when he went to Malachor V, yet in the end of TSL, the Exile and all his companions can go to Malachor V just fine, even though they were all LS, which is the canonical way of things. Lots of people seem to have gone to Malachor V without dying from it. It certainly seems Kreia did too, and though she was also overcome by the dark side, she didn't need to "absorb dark side powers" just to survive.

 

Besides, what does it mean to "absorb dark side powers" anyway? I remember doing that with some characters on Dxun, when we went to Freedon Nadd's tomb and found some dark side energies. If that is what Revan needed to do just to survive, then I don't think that's very impressive. Rather, I think it's a little pathetic. Besides, the dark side doesn't kill people - it corrupts them. And they certainly did that with Revan, if we assume that he was even trying to resist the dark side.

 

Finally, what Revan can do on Malachor V cannot be attributed to another place - Malachor is a pretty wierd place to begin with.

 

Kreia: "It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death."

 

You can't say that about most places, which leaves us little basis for claiming that Revan absorbing dark side powers there means that he can do it anywhere else.

 

But you were stating that many others are more powerful then Revan and this is canonically not confirmed and true. So your supposition is wrong.

 

No, it's a supposition. For it to be wrong, it must be proven that Revan is more powerful, and we really don't know that either. You think so, and I tend to agree that Revan was probably one of the more potent force-users in his day, but we actually don't know that beyond speculation from Kreia, who is speaking about her favorite student and so is not exactly an objective source.

 

From Darth Bane POD Novel: Darth Bane—recently proclaimed a Dark Lord himself—traveled to Lehon in search of power enough to topple the existing Sith regime, the Brotherhood of Darkness. Once there, he discovered Revan's holocron and from it received training and instruction that, in his opinion, surpassed the entirety of Korriban Academy's archives.

 

All that really says is that the knowledge Revan gained from the Trayus Academy was better than that of Korriban. That says more about the quality of what Revan learned at the Trayus Academy than it does about Revan himself. In fact, all it tells us about Revan is that he learned a lot there, which has never been in dispute anyway.

 

Revan's mastery in force was so great that it surpassed the entirety of Sith knowledge found in a Sith Planet called "Korriban" (and this planet was already rich with Sith secrets).

 

And the reason behind this is that Revan has explored the worlds of Malachor V and Korriban in quest for great knowledge in Ancient Sith Arts and he learned a huge number of Sith secrets from these worlds.

 

Revan learned secrets that had long been lost to the Sith. Does that speak more to the abilities of Revan or the ancient Sith? All it tells me is that the ancient Sith were far more powerful, and that Revan gained power from trying to understand what arcane knowledge had not been lost to posterity. That doesn't exactly tell me that Revan was particularly powerful to begin with. Actually, it suggests just the opposite to me.

 

Narration by Canderous Ordo (regarding Revan): "His strategies and tactics defeated the best of us. Even Mandalore himself was taken aback by the ferocity of his attacks, the tenacity of his defenses and and the subtlety of his plans."

 

The obvious counter-argument to that is that Canderous has little choice but to say that about Revan, since Revan beat the Mandalorians into a pulp. And since the Mandalorians think of themselves as great warriors and strategists, they must consider the person who defeated them as an even greater warrior and strategist, because to do otherwise would require that they reconsider their own high opinion of themselves. And none of the Mandalorians demonstrate any such introspection or reevaluation during either game that I've noticed. Quite the contrary - they are all warmongering, arrogant pigs with a "might is right" attitude the lot of them!

[S_W_LeGenD]

I think you're reading an awful lot into that ability. Yes, Revan survived by absorbing ds powers, but how much of a feat is that, really? Revan was overcome by the dark side, when he went to Malachor V, yet in the end of TSL, the Exile and all his companions can go to Malachor V just fine, even though they were all LS, which is the canonical way of things. Lots of people seem to have gone to Malachor V without dying from it. It certainly seems Kreia did too, and though she was also overcome by the dark side, she didn't need to "absorb dark side powers" just to survive.

Gameplay is not canon actually and thus you don't feel a damn thing when you enter Malachor V. But since Exile was a wound in the force, so she was also possibly less sensitive to exposure to DS energies.

 

And Kriea too got corrupted by the influence of the Dark Side power in Malachor V, despite her great wisdom and she was not the true servant of the Light and thus was less sensitive to exposure to DS power. She actually believed in Gray philosophies.

 

Here is more information: Her crusade ended on the dark world of Malachor V. As she descended to the lowest levels of the world, the extreme caress of dark side energies encompassed the frail Gray Jedi. From the descent of Jedi Master Kreia into the abyss arose Darth Traya, Dark Lord of Betrayal.

 

So Malachor's influence was enough to turn her in to a Sith Lord.

 

And Revan was much more sensitive to DS power then Kriea and Exile, because he was a true servant of the Light and was very strong in the force and probably due to some more unknown reasons. Even the Mandalorians were very sensitive to such DS energies and thats why they avoided capturing the Malachor V planet.

 

So their is no hard and fast rule that how sensitive an individual can be to DS energies in that planet.

Besides, what does it mean to "absorb dark side powers" anyway? I remember doing that with some characters on Dxun, when we went to Freedon Nadd's tomb and found some dark side energies. If that is what Revan needed to do just to survive, then I don't think that's very impressive. Rather, I think it's a little pathetic. Besides, the dark side doesn't kill people - it corrupts them. And they certainly did that with Revan, if we assume that he was even trying to resist the dark side.

Revan was a true servant of the Light and when he landed on a world fueled by Dark Side power, he was over-whelmed by the Dark Side energies and resisted his doom only through his strong will. So he saved himself by "feeding on" or absorbing those DS energies that posed a threat to him. But he eventually got corrupted by them as well, since Dark Side power corrupts.

 

Finally, what Revan can do on Malachor V cannot be attributed to another place - Malachor is a pretty wierd place to begin with.

 

Kreia: "It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death."

And this shows that Malachor is a place that can influence anyone.

 

You can't say that about most places, which leaves us little basis for claiming that Revan absorbing dark side powers there means that he can do it anywhere else.

But how he manages to defend against Malak's DS power based attacks, who was a powerful DS force user as well, and despite the truth that Malak's powers were further enhanced by Star Forge? The only logical answer is that he naturally became resistant to DS related power attacks, after his exposure to DS energies in Malachor V. And this means that he could absorb DS powers.

 

No, it's a supposition. For it to be wrong, it must be proven that Revan is more powerful, and we really don't know that either. You think so, and I tend to agree that Revan was probably one of the more potent force-users in his day, but we actually don't know that beyond speculation from Kreia, who is speaking about her favorite student and so is not exactly an objective source.

Canonical sources have given us sufficient hints about Revan's power, so his great power should not be questioned. And the accomplishments of a person, clearly speak about the power of that individual as well.

 

And Kreia was pretty much accurate in describing the characters she knew, so her point stands.

 

All that really says is that the knowledge Revan gained from the Trayus Academy was better than that of Korriban. That says more about the quality of what Revan learned at the Trayus Academy than it does about Revan himself. In fact, all it tells us about Revan is that he learned a lot there, which has never been in dispute anyway.

I agree.

 

Revan learned secrets that had long been lost to the Sith. Does that speak more to the abilities of Revan or the ancient Sith? All it tells me is that the ancient Sith were far more powerful, and that Revan gained power from trying to understand what arcane knowledge had not been lost to posterity. That doesn't exactly tell me that Revan was particularly powerful to begin with. Actually, it suggests just the opposite to me.

When you learn some secrets, then you can use them as well. And it was only a speculation that ancient sith were far more powerful. Because when Revan met the spirit of "Ajunta Pall" (who is also among the most powerful ancient Sith Lords), he told Ajunta Pall clearly that Sith of his age are far more powerful then before. And this explains a lot as Revan knew what he was saying because he had already studied about Ancient Sith in great details.

 

And Revan was already a powerful Jedi Warrior and considered a hero, before he visited Malachor V.

 

The obvious counter-argument to that is that Canderous has little choice but to say that about Revan, since Revan beat the Mandalorians into a pulp. And since the Mandalorians think of themselves as great warriors and strategists, they must consider the person who defeated them as an even greater warrior and strategist, because to do otherwise would require that they reconsider their own high opinion of themselves. And none of the Mandalorians demonstrate any such introspection or reevaluation during either game that I've noticed. Quite the contrary - they are all warmongering, arrogant pigs with a "might is right" attitude the lot of them!

You make it sound like that Revan was holding a Gun on Canderous head, when Canderous said these words. Dude! Canderous never feared anyone and he was always looking for real challenges and he admired Revan a lot because Revan's achievements were clear to him.

 

He did not said those lines out of fear of being killed. So your assumption is lame.

[Jediphile]

Gameplay is not canon actually and thus you don't feel a damn thing when you enter Malachor V. But since Exile was a wound in the force, so she was also possibly less sensitive to exposure to DS energies.

 

For the Exile, yes, but not the Exile's companions. Now, I know that you're going to argue that those scenes were cut and so not canon, but not all of them - the Mira vs. Hanharr fight is still in there, and Mira shows no sign of corruption by the dark side. None.

 

So Malachor's influence was enough to turn her in to a Sith Lord.

 

Have I claimed otherwise? This is the first I hear of it... Why doesn't anyone ever tell me these things?

 

And Revan was much more sensitive to DS power then Kriea and Exile, because he was a true servant of the Light and was very strong in the force and probably due to some more unknown reasons.

 

In this case "sensitive" could be interpreted as "weak". As for how much of a servant to the light Revan was at this point, I think that is highly debatable. Certainly the jedi masters would not agree with you - they had already cast Revan out of the order for his defiance at this point. Scarcely an indication of his lofty status with the light, to be sure.

 

Even the Mandalorians were very sensitive to such DS energies and thats why they avoided capturing the Malachor V planet.

 

Avoided capturing?!? It's sacred ground to them! I think that might have something to do with it...

 

So their is no hard and fast rule that how sensitive an individual can be to DS energies in that planet.

 

If that is the case, then how can you conclude the following...

 

Revan was a true servant of the Light and when he landed on a world fueled by Dark Side power, he was over-whelmed by the Dark Side energies and resisted his doom only through his strong will. So he saved himself by "feeding on" or absorbing those DS energies that posed a threat to him. But he eventually got corrupted by them as well, since Dark Side power corrupts.

 

If there are no hard and fast rules about how Malachor V affects people, then I don't understand how you can conclude that Revan survived Malachor only by his strong will and his great power in the Force.

 

And why would Malachor V be lethal to him? Kreia says nothing about that in her quote. On the contrary, she says that it corrupts irresistably, which is how the dark side works. True, Kreia says that it feeds on death, but that's not the same as killing someone.

 

But how he manages to defend against Malak's DS power based attacks, who was a powerful DS force user as well, and despite the truth that Malak's powers were further enhanced by Star Forge? The only logical answer is that he naturally became resistant to DS related power attacks, after his exposure to DS energies in Malachor V. And this means that he could absorb DS powers.

 

That's pure game mechanics. There is no basis for claiming that Revan has unique powers on that ground that I can see - you could put Jolee, Juhani, or Bastila in there, and it would have been just the same, depending on how you built them as they progressed through the levels. And Revan doesn't always resist. I've bit the dust in that fight, when I didn't get Force Resistance/Immunity up fast enough and failed a save against Malak's paralyzing attacks. There is nothing special about Revan there that I have experienced.

 

Canonical sources have given us sufficient hints about Revan's power, so his great power should not be questioned. And the accomplishments of a person, clearly speak about the power of that individual as well.

 

I don't see that Revan had any particular powers. Sure, he was strong in the Force, but that doesn't give him any special abilities as such. Revan was great because he was not merely strong in the Force but also smart, resourceful, and determined. Not because the author poured uber-powers all over him. In that case I would hate Revan.

 

When you learn some secrets, then you can use them as well. And it was only a speculation that ancient sith were far more powerful. Because when Revan met the spirit of "Ajunta Pall" (who is also among the most powerful ancient Sith Lords), he told Ajunta Pall clearly that Sith of his age are far more powerful then before. And this explains a lot as Revan knew what he was saying because he had already studied about Ancient Sith in great details.

 

Actually, I don't get that impression at all from Ajunta Pall. He speaks of how "we" turned from our masters, suggesting that he was one of the original dark jedi cast out of the jedi order after the Hundred Years War. In short, he was the losing side that was kicked out by the Jedi. That doesn't exactly put him among the greatest great lords of the Sith Empire, such as Ragnos or Sadow and Kressh, who could probably have conquered the Republic, if only they didn't quarrel so much amongst themselves. Besides, any Sith would call Pall a pathetic weakling and disgrace to the Sith for turning back to the light at Revan's suggestion. Even Kreia says as much in TSL.

 

You make it sound like that Revan was holding a Gun on Canderous head, when Canderous said these words. Dude! Canderous never feared anyone and he was always looking for real challenges and he admired Revan a lot because Revan's achievements were clear to him.

 

He did not said those lines out of fear of being killed. So your assumption is lame.

 

Nonsense. Please reread. What I say is that the high opinion the Mandalorians have of themselves prevents them from seeing things any other way. That's not Revan's responsibility in any event, nor does it say that the Mandalorians are afraid of anything. It just says that they are so arrogant and full of themselves that this is the only way they can perceive Revan. How you get that to be Revan threatening Canderous or Canderous being afraid is completely beyond me.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Revan was a true servant of the Light and when he landed on a world fueled by Dark Side power, he was over-whelmed by the Dark Side energies and resisted his doom only through his strong will. So he saved himself by "feeding on" or absorbing those DS energies that posed a threat to him. But he eventually got corrupted by them as well, since Dark Side power corrupts.

Listen this time. The mere essence of the Dark Side does not kill. It corrupts, which is exactly what happened to Revan. That fact would actually prove that he is not as strong as you claim, because if he could resist DS energies, then why couldn't he resist being corrupted? Revan's life was never endangered: only his spirit.

 

But how he manages to defend against Malak's DS power based attacks, who was a powerful DS force user as well, and despite the truth that Malak's powers were further enhanced by Star Forge? The only logical answer is that he naturally became resistant to DS related power attacks, after his exposure to DS energies in Malachor V. And this means that he could absorb DS powers.

Ok, when, besides in the game, does Revan resist Malak's DS Force attacks. Now you yourself said that "gameplay mechanics" don't apply to this. So please explain to me how this applies to how powerful Revan is, and other "gameplay mechanics" don't. Revan is not any more "resistant" to DS related powers than any other powerful Force user of that day, and he certainly cannot absorb DS powers.

 

From Darth Bane POD Novel: Darth Bane—recently proclaimed a Dark Lord himself—traveled to Lehon in search of power enough to topple the existing Sith regime, the Brotherhood of Darkness. Once there, he discovered Revan's holocron and from it received training and instruction that, in his opinion, surpassed the entirety of Korriban Academy's archives.

Revan learned many things from the Trayus Academy on Malachor V. As others before me have said, all that means is that the teachings of the Trayus Academy surpass the teachings of the Sith Academy on Korriban. Also, if you didn't notice, that says "in his opinion." Since when is Darth Bane's opinion a canonical source?

 

When you learn some secrets, then you can use them as well. And it was only a speculation that ancient sith were far more powerful. Because when Revan met the spirit of "Ajunta Pall" (who is also among the most powerful ancient Sith Lords), he told Ajunta Pall clearly that Sith of his age are far more powerful then before. And this explains a lot as Revan knew what he was saying because he had already studied about Ancient Sith in great details.

Uh...provide me with some material that says Revan said the Sith of his age were far more powerful than before?

 

You make it sound like that Revan was holding a Gun on Canderous head, when Canderous said these words. Dude! Canderous never feared anyone and he was always looking for real challenges and he admired Revan a lot because Revan's achievements were clear to him.

 

He did not said those lines out of fear of being killed. So your assumption is lame.

Did you actually read what he said? Canderous wasn't protecting his life because Revan was holding a gun to his head. He was protecting the honor of the Mandalorians. They always talk about how great and powerful they are, and yet they were defeated. To say anything less than Revan was an incredible genius would put a bad name on them. If they said he was weak, then that would obviously prove that they weren't quite as powerful as they claim.

[The Architect]

Some people say that it is canon material.

 

Like who? So what anyway? It hasn't been confirmed as canon as far as I can tell. Prove that it has been.

 

But you were stating that many others are more powerful then Revan and this is canonically not confirmed and true. So your supposition is wrong.

 

What Jediphile said.

 

From Darth Bane POD Novel: Darth Bane—recently proclaimed a Dark Lord himself—traveled to Lehon in search of power enough to topple the existing Sith regime, the Brotherhood of Darkness. Once there, he discovered Revan's holocron and from it received training and instruction that, in his opinion, surpassed the entirety of Korriban Academy's archives.

 

Revan's mastery in force was so great that it surpassed the entirety of Sith knowledge found in a Sith Planet called "Korriban" (and this planet was already rich with Sith secrets).

 

And the reason behind this is that Revan has explored the worlds of Malachor V and Korriban in quest for great knowledge in Ancient Sith Arts and he learned a huge number of Sith secrets from these worlds.

 

You do realise how much of a Revan fan boy you sound like when you say crap like 'Revan's mastery of the force was so great' right? I agree with Jediphile. All this tells suggests is that the ancient Sith were more powerful than Revan, so your proof is somewhat self defeating. EagerWeasel makes a good point too. Since when did Darth Bane's opinion become a canonical source?

 

Canonically, Revan's companions followed him on Star Forge for not a long time as Revan faced Bastilla and Malak and their elite legions alone. And not all of his companions followed him as some had to stay in the ship to protect it from possible ambushes.

 

Did they? This is the first I've heard of it. Care to prove it? Besides, Revan's companions did follow him/her on the Star Forge for a while, up until the fight with Bastila or the three Dark Jedi Masters. You have to remember from that point onwards, their were no more Sith to fight, apart from Malak.

 

Also, you need to distinguish the difference between gameplay mechanics and the plot. The gameplay mechanics in K1 and K2 only allowed you to take two companions at the maximum.

 

Storywise, all of Revan's companions would of fought with him/her on the Star Forge, since none of them had any reason to stay on the Ebon Hawk, because half a dozen Jedi Knights were there to protect the ships so the Sith didn't cut off their escape route.

 

Do you seriously think that three people would have fought the entire Sith army that was present on the Star Forge? You're looking at things from a gameplay perspective. Storywise, Revan and his/her companions would have had many Jedi Knights and Republic troops helping them fight the Sith on the Star Forge. Logic would tell you that.

 

They have never shown accomplishments that rival Revan's. Their is a concept that "the more powerful you are, the more you will accomplish".

 

Have you played K2? If you did, you'd realise that Sion, Kreia, the Exile and Darth Nihilus all possessed unique abilities that rivaled Revan's. Their is a concept in Star Wars that if you are more powerful than your opponent, then you will defeat them in an open, 'one on one' battle.

 

You don't think that the Exile, Kreia, Nihilus and Sion could beat Revan in a one on one fight? I certainly think they could. In fact, I think they all would defeat Revan in combat, but that's just my opinion.

 

Narration by Yuthura Ban (regarding Revan): "I hear he was a very powerful man. Very charismatic."

 

I'm not saying that Revan wasn't powerful. In his/her timeline, Revan was powerful, but 'looking at the big picture' which means in the entire Star Wars timeline, I don't see why Revan would be considered as one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever. No way.

 

Take an example of Darth Sidious: he was also very powerful, charismatic and a brilliant strategist as well (like Darth Revan) and he accomplished a lot.

 

Darth Sidious was canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of all time.

 

Not all think like this. And I never think like this but I believe that he is among the most powerful characters in Star Wars Saga and canonical sources have already provided us hints.

 

Well fair enough, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. I don't think that Revan is among the most powerful characters in the entire Star Wars franchise, but you do. Meh, as Jediphile said, why should we have to agree all the time?

 

Narration by Canderous Ordo (regarding Revan): "His strategies and tactics defeated the best of us. Even Mandalore himself was taken aback by the ferocity of his attacks, the tenacity of his defenses and and the subtlety of his plans."

 

Need I say more?

 

Yes, you do actually. How does this prove that Revan was a brilliant strategist and a military genius? This is just a biast opinion of one man. As Jediphile and EagerWeasel have pointed out, of course Canderous is going to speak highly of Revan. Duh.

 

Revan was very powerful and a military genius as well.

 

Apart from Revan's 'cleaning house' tactic, tell me what else Revan did that was fascinating? I'm not saying he/she isn't a brilliant strategist and I understand why people would assume that he/she was, I'm just pointing out that I haven't seen any proof of his/her 'genius' tactics.

 

Another narration by Canderous Ordo: "You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor."

 

And I have already mentioned his narration (regarding Revan), which makes it clear that Revan was a military genius.

 

There's no way in hell that you've made it clear that Revan was a military genius. This is a weak argument.

 

It was Revan who inspired them to join him in the war and reject the decision of Jedi Council.

 

It was Revan and Malak who inspired the renegade Jedi to join them in the war and reject the decision of Jedi Council.

[S_W_LeGenD]

For the Exile, yes, but not the Exile's companions. Now, I know that you're going to argue that those scenes were cut and so not canon, but not all of them - the Mira vs. Hanharr fight is still in there, and Mira shows no sign of corruption by the dark side. None.

Then blame Obsidian for that and not me. Because we already have got various indications that Malachor V corrupts those who dare walk on its surface.

 

Have I claimed otherwise? This is the first I hear of it... Why doesn't anyone ever tell me these things?

We already have indications that Malachor V can corrupt any individual. So if Obsidian have shown otherwise then it is their fault for such contradictions.

 

In this case "sensitive" could be interpreted as "weak". As for how much of a servant to the light Revan was at this point, I think that is highly debatable. Certainly the jedi masters would not agree with you - they had already cast Revan out of the order for his defiance at this point. Scarcely an indication of his lofty status with the light, to be sure.

I did not made that information by myself and being sensitive does not translates in to word "weak" because he was not weak. And being cast out of Jedi Order does not makes any individual Evil by default. He was fighting to save The Republic from its doom, so it was a noble act.

 

Avoided capturing?!? It's sacred ground to them! I think that might have something to do with it...

Sacred ground to them how? Did they worshipped the ancients?

 

If that is the case, then how can you conclude the following...

It depends that how sensitive an individual is to such an exposure. Details in games can often contradict with details provided by other sources. And if that information is from a higher canon source then it is more accurate.

 

If there are no hard and fast rules about how Malachor V affects people, then I don't understand how you can conclude that Revan survived Malachor only by his strong will and his great power in the Force.

He would be more sensitive to such an exposure and I also mentioned the line "due to unknown reasons". And his body started feeding on those DS energies present in Malachor V, so it would have something to do with his great power in the Force. And why don't you read those lines properly and explain to me that what it actually mean't?

 

And why would Malachor V be lethal to him? Kreia says nothing about that in her quote. On the contrary, she says that it corrupts irresistably, which is how the dark side works. True, Kreia says that it feeds on death, but that's not the same as killing someone.

Reasons are unknown but he survived by giving in to the Dark Side and feeding on those DS energies.

 

That's pure game mechanics. There is no basis for claiming that Revan has unique powers on that ground that I can see - you could put Jolee, Juhani, or Bastila in there, and it would have been just the same, depending on how you built them as they progressed through the levels. And Revan doesn't always resist. I've bit the dust in that fight, when I didn't get Force Resistance/Immunity up fast enough and failed a save against Malak's paralyzing attacks. There is nothing special about Revan there that I have experienced.

I have never used any "Game Mechanics" in my argument, since I never used the word "Force Immunity". The only known canon defenses are "Force Deflect" and "Absorb Capability". Revan would have known one of these or probably both to survive such an encounter. Because you can't fight and defeat a powerful Sith Lord unless you can defend against his Force attacks, which that Sith Lord will use on you in any case.

 

And Jolee Bindo and Juhani have never faced Malak and we don't know that canonically what defensive abilities they have, so your assumption regarding them are wrong and actually based on "Game Mechanics".

 

I don't see that Revan had any particular powers. Sure, he was strong in the Force, but that doesn't give him any special abilities as such. Revan was great because he was not merely strong in the Force but also smart, resourceful, and determined. Not because the author poured uber-powers all over him. In that case I would hate Revan.

Revan's powers are not fully known yet but we know that he was a powerful force user and some of his powers are already known;

 

- Force Lightning (Any powerful Sith Lord knows this)

- Force Lightning Storm (Demonstrated in Lehon)

- Mind Domination (Power to convince many)

- Thought Bomb (Taught to Bane)

- Telekinetic Abilities (Demonstrated in Lehon)

- Drain Knowledge (A person who learned a lot from Malachor V will know this as well)

 

Then he trained Malak in Sith Arts as well, so Force Moves shown by Malak were also known to him. Also he knew some Defensive moves as well.

 

So, you can't say that his abilities are fully unknown, if you pay some attention to his achievements.

 

Actually, I don't get that impression at all from Ajunta Pall. He speaks of how "we" turned from our masters, suggesting that he was one of the original dark jedi cast out of the jedi order after the Hundred Years War. In short, he was the losing side that was kicked out by the Jedi. That doesn't exactly put him among the greatest great lords of the Sith Empire, such as Ragnos or Sadow and Kressh, who could probably have conquered the Republic, if only they didn't quarrel so much amongst themselves. Besides, any Sith would call Pall a pathetic weakling and disgrace to the Sith for turning back to the light at Revan's suggestion. Even Kreia says as much in TSL.

He said that he turned to Dark Side and he actually killed his master and thats why he left the Jedi Order because their was no valid reason for him to stay with the Jedi. Also, Ajunta Pall was one of the founding leaders of the old Sith during the time of the Old Sith Empire centered on Korriban, shortly after the "Hundred-Year Darkness". And he was among the most famous Ancient Sith Lords, as his Tomb was present their in Korriban as a sign of respect.

 

But after his death, his spirit remained to haunt his Tomb for many centuries and he started having doubts about Sith Philosophies. And Revan convinced him to turn to Light as their was no glory in the Dark. And after Ajunta's spirit turned to Light, it finally rested in peace and no longer haunted his tomb.

 

So kreia mis-judged this event.

 

Nonsense. Please reread. What I say is that the high opinion the Mandalorians have of themselves prevents them from seeing things any other way. That's not Revan's responsibility in any event, nor does it say that the Mandalorians are afraid of anything. It just says that they are so arrogant and full of themselves that this is the only way they can perceive Revan. How you get that to be Revan threatening Canderous or Canderous being afraid is completely beyond me.

Your arguement over Canderous's remarks on Revan is entirely baseless. Because what else would you expect from him to say about Revan? Of-course he will say high about Revan because Revan defeated the Mandalorian forces and ended their threat to the Republic for once and all. But Canderous also said that Revan gave the mandalorians an exceptional challenge that they desired for so many years and thats why he respected Revan so much. And Canderous also clearly said that it did not matters to him that his forces were defeated in the war with The Republic, but he appreciated the challenge given to his forces by Revan because it was he who turned the tide in that war.

 

Now he won't say the samething to any other person or would he?

[S_W_LeGenD]

Listen this time. The mere essence of the Dark Side does not kill. It corrupts, which is exactly what happened to Revan. That fact would actually prove that he is not as strong as you claim, because if he could resist DS energies, then why couldn't he resist being corrupted? Revan's life was never endangered: only his spirit.

OK! you have a point here but remember that power of a Jedi has nothing to do with corruption. Kreia despite having great wisdom and knowledge also got corrupted by DS energies in Malachor.

 

Ok, when, besides in the game, does Revan resist Malak's DS Force attacks. Now you yourself said that "gameplay mechanics" don't apply to this. So please explain to me how this applies to how powerful Revan is, and other "gameplay mechanics" don't. Revan is not any more "resistant" to DS related powers than any other powerful Force user of that day, and he certainly cannot absorb DS powers.

You are trying to tell me that Revan survived in that battle without having defensive abilities to block Force attacks by Malak? Remember that if you can't defend against Force attacks of your adversary who will use them on you then you will never win. Yoda could absorb and counter Force attacks by Sidious and thats why he survived in his fight against Sidious.

 

And information in the provided Link indicates that Revan's body started feeding on DS energies in Malachor and this shows that he could absorb DS powers.

 

Revan learned many things from the Trayus Academy on Malachor V. As others before me have said, all that means is that the teachings of the Trayus Academy surpass the teachings of the Sith Academy on Korriban. Also, if you didn't notice, that says "in his opinion." Since when is Darth Bane's opinion a canonical source?

Darth Bane's opinion is mentioned in POD Novel and it becomes canon by default. And Bane had no valid reason to lie because Revan's teachings impressed him. And Revan also taught Bane the deadly ritual of "Thought Bomb", which proved to be very useful to Bane.

 

Uh...provide me with some material that says Revan said the Sith of his age were far more powerful than before?

When Revan met Ajunta Pall (who is also a powerful and famous ancient Sith Lord), Ajunta asked Revan about the conditions of Sith in his age and Revan told him that Sith of his age are far more powerful.

 

Did you actually read what he said? Canderous wasn't protecting his life because Revan was holding a gun to his head. He was protecting the honor of the Mandalorians. They always talk about how great and powerful they are, and yet they were defeated. To say anything less than Revan was an incredible genius would put a bad name on them. If they said he was weak, then that would obviously prove that they weren't quite as powerful as they claim.

He was actually praising Revan and he even said that defeat of Mandalorians did not concerned him. And Canderous clearly mentioned that he praised Revan so much because Revan gave Mandalorians an exceptional challenge they desired for so many years.

 

And Revan was not weak because a weak person would never be able to defeat the powerful leader of Mandalorians who was "Mandalore - The Ultimate" in a single combat. So Canderous had no valid reason to say that Revan was weak.

[The Sith'ari]

For everyone's future reference, there is evidence that Nihilus can kill people with his all-powerful drain before they react. Unseen, Unheard confirms that he went to the surface of Katarr to consume the Jedi there, and despite going against a whole conclave of Masters (obviously more than a match for Revan), he was clearly able to kill them.

 

No credence to Nihilus' power being slow, there.

 

Emperor Devon brings up good evidence that Nihilus' power is effective in sudden combat. That's the kind of the stuff that helps answer the relevant questions about Nihilus' power, rather than complaints that Revan sucks and claims that Nihilus is a god.

 

I saw the picture that Devon posted in Wookiepedia.

It's captioned: Darth Nihilus encounters Visas Marr as he walks the devastated surface of Katarr. But that only shows Nihilus on the planet AFTER the massacre, or during, we can't conclude. Nowhere in the passage mentions Nihilus actually was on the planet when he struck, nor does anywhere suggest that he actually was being attacked when he struck- he could have exerted his ability while hidden somewhere on the planet, and after that walked out and encountered Visas. The picture did not prove anything that's material to our discussion at all.

 

I looked further into the article, then I got to the page titled "Devestation of Katarr":

 

"My people never saw his face when he struck — but they heard his voice. When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died. The destruction of Katarr echoed through the Force, the screaming of countless lives."

—Visas Marr

 

You may want to think what this might suggest. "Never saw his face when he struck"- could mean that Nihilus was actually not there, at least not under the attack of the jedi masters.

 

That way, we can't really be sure as whether Nihilus can maneouvre his ability as usual when he's under attack.

 

But while I like Revan, I like him most because he is NOT some uber-force-god. Sure, Revan may have been the strongest force-user of his time, but I dare say he pales if compared to Yoda or any of the Skywalkers. He is strong in the force, but there are limits, and that's what I like about Revan - he's not just some half-clever guy soaked in uber-powers. He's far closer to an "ordinary" jedi and special mostly for how sneaky and clever he is. To give him unique powers that nobody else has is to cheapen the traits that were his real strengths, which was his strategic mind and his utter dedication to his cause.

 

Not that Revan didn't have his weaknesses. After all, he made the same mistake Ulic had made less than half a century before - he thought he could use the dark side of the Force without becoming a slave to it. Either that or he underestimated his own potential, since he turned into a dark lord far more dangerous than the evil he had sacrificed himself to destroy. Either way, Revan erred greatly. But in doing so it also humanizes him. He may be powerful, but he's not above making mistakes. I like that.

 

QFE. And Architect said Revan was stupid. I wonder what makes you hold that opinion? I hope it's not only because Revan's overrated by some fanboys out there.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Revan's powers are not fully known yet but we know that he was a powerful force user and some of his powers are already known;

 

- Force Lightning (Any powerful Sith Lord knows this)

- Force Lightning Storm (Demonstrated in Lehon)

- Mind Domination (Power to convince many)

- Thought Bomb (Taught to Bane)

- Telekinetic Abilities (Demonstrated in Lehon)

- Drain Knowledge (A person who learned a lot from Malachor V will know this as well)

 

I know he had Force Lightning. There is no power called Force Lightning Storm. Do you not understand? The One exaggerated greatly, he had never seen the Force in action before. I'm gunna use an example provided by

someone before me. Say I went back in time about 2,000 years and I take a flamethrower with me. The people see it in action and they think I have some kind special gift where I can take a canon and create fire to shoot out of it. Obviously we know that's not true, since that's impossible. The One greatly exaggerated.

 

Show me somewhere that canon material says he has something called Mind Domination. And don't tell me that you think the fact of how many Jedi he recruited for the war explains that.

 

I've never read the Bane book and don't know what a thought bomb is so...yea.

 

What Telekinetic abilities did he show there? Another thing I'd like to see some material for.

 

So anyone who learns a lot from somewhere has Drain Knowledge? That would mean that nearly all Jedi have Drain Knowledge. Nearly all Sith have Drain Knowledge. Nearly all people who take a creative arts class have Drain Knowledge. Need I go on?

Your arguement over Canderous's remarks on Revan is entirely baseless. Because what else would you expect from him to say about Revan? Of-course he will say high about Revan because Revan defeated the Mandalorian forces and ended their threat to the Republic for once and all. But Canderous also said that Revan gave the mandalorians an exceptional challenge that they desired for so many years and thats why he respected Revan so much. And Canderous also clearly said that it did not matters to him that his forces were defeated in the war with The Republic, but he appreciated the challenge given to his forces by Revan because it was he who turned the tide in that war.

 

Well you just stated my point exactly.

OK! you have a point here but remember that power of a Jedi has nothing to do with corruption. Kreia despite having great wisdom and knowledge also got corrupted by DS energies in Malachor.

 

Uh...show me in there where I said the power of the Jedi had anything to do with corruption. You obviously didn't actually take the time to try to understand it. We all know that DS energies corrupt. DS energies do not kill. Revan's life was never in danger. Just because he gave in to the DS does not mean he was doing it to protect his life. He did it because he had no choice. As Kreia says, "It corrupts all life that walks upon it's surface." She did not say, it kills all life that walks upon it's surface that does not give in to the DS.

You are trying to tell me that Revan survived in that battle without having defensive abilities to block Force attacks by Malak? Remember that if you can't defend against Force attacks of your adversary who will use them on you then you will never win. Yoda could absorb and counter Force attacks by Sidious and thats why he survived in his fight against Sidious.

 

And information in the provided Link indicates that Revan's body started feeding on DS energies in Malachor and this shows that he could absorb DS powers.

 

Of course he had some knowledghe of defensive abilities, but that certainly does not mean he could absorb DS powers. And your point about how his sheer will saved him from death on Malachor is invalid. All Sith can feed on the power of the DS. How do you think they have any DS abilities at all. In the temple on Dxun, you can "feed" on the DS energies there, and don't tell me that's game mechanics because it's not. There is a difference between game mechanics and the story line.

 

And about Kreia. She was corrupted on the surface of Malachor, but was her life ever in any danger? No, nor was anyone else's. She was simply corrupted by the DS, she never "absorbed" any DS energies, she simply gave in- just as Revan did. And provide me with a source for your statment about how the more lightsided a person is, the more vulnerable they are to DS energies.

Darth Bane's opinion is mentioned in POD Novel and it becomes canon by default. And Bane had no valid reason to lie because Revan's teachings impressed him. And Revan also taught Bane the deadly ritual of "Thought Bomb", which proved to be very useful to Bane.

 

I don't care what novel it was in: it's still Darth Bane's opinion. And who said Bane lied? It was his opinion that what Revan taught him surpassed the teachings of the Sith Academy on Korriban. Just because I disagree does not mean either one of us has lied, it just means that I disagree. And I do not disagree with the fact that what Revan taught him surpassed the Academy, just that those were not necessarily his teachings. He learned those techniques from the Trayus Academy, then shared those things with Bane.

When Revan met Ajunta Pall (who is also a powerful and famous ancient Sith Lord), Ajunta asked Revan about the conditions of Sith in his age and Revan told him that Sith of his age are far more powerful.

 

I don't remember him actually speaking those words, but maybe he did- I don't know. But if he did, please provide me with a link.

[The Sith'ari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD

Your arguement over Canderous's remarks on Revan is entirely baseless. Because what else would you expect from him to say about Revan? Of-course he will say high about Revan because Revan defeated the Mandalorian forces and ended their threat to the Republic for once and all. But Canderous also said that Revan gave the mandalorians an exceptional challenge that they desired for so many years and thats why he respected Revan so much. And Canderous also clearly said that it did not matters to him that his forces were defeated in the war with The Republic, but he appreciated the challenge given to his forces by Revan because it was he who turned the tide in that war.

 

Well you just stated my point exactly.

 

From a human perspective, yes, I totally agree. People do flatter those who defeat them. But mind that it's a game, and what's provided by the game itself is basically what it's SUPPOSED to be. Revan's image being such, as described by Canderous, is simply what the game designers designed it to be. And it's not only Canderous- the entire KotOR game contributes to such an image of Revan. You "take the victim as you find him". I mean, Revan is that, protraited by the contents in the game, and we should take him the way he's portraited to be. Whether you like him or not is up to you, and you can imagine him to be whatever you want him to be in your universe, and you can insert whatever human motives into the speakers in the game. But that would make no constructive contribution to an objective discussion based on the game.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

True. Don't get me wrong, I do think Revan was a smart guy, a powerful Force user, and a great leader, I just do not think he is some all-powerful, all-knowing, un-beatable god.

[The Sith'ari]

True. Don't get me wrong, I do think Revan was a smart guy, a powerful Force user, and a great leader, I just do not think he is some all-powerful, all-knowing, un-beatable god.

 

I know, of course he isn't almighty; he's not even a skywalker and even a skywalker isn't all almighty.

 

But giving him the credits he deserves doesn't make one a fanboy- it's important to see such distinction. I see people who shy away from giving deserved tributes to Revan perhaps simply because Revan's overrated by fanboys out there. Maybe they're afraid they might be called a fanboy if they do so, or maybe they simply want to do something different, I don't know. But it's best to see things objectively. Whether one likes him or not is one thing, but one can't undo what he's done as portraited in the game. Else one'd only become the extreme opposite of "Revan fanboys".

[S_W_LeGenD]

Like who? So what anyway? It hasn't been confirmed as canon as far as I can tell. Prove that it has been.

Some in this forum and as well in other forums believe that "Sion vs Nihilus" Video is canon. Check "Nihilus vs Sion" thread as a hint.

 

Also I am not sure that whether "Sion vs Nihilus" video is canon or not and I don't care much about it. But it explains to us a few things.

 

What Jediphile said.

I have high-lighted some of the abilites of Revan and add to them Malak's abilities as well (since Revan trained Malak in the Sith Arts) and you will get an idea that Revan was indeed a very powerful Force User as well.

 

See! I used some logic and put some pieces of Revan's achievements together to show a picture of what Revan would know. And still we don't know about the full extent of his power as his information is not even complete yet.

 

You do realise how much of a Revan fan boy you sound like when you say crap like 'Revan's mastery of the force was so great' right? I agree with Jediphile. All this tells suggests is that the ancient Sith were more powerful than Revan, so your proof is somewhat self defeating. EagerWeasel makes a good point too. Since when did Darth Bane's opinion become a canonical source?

Revan always wanted to learn more then expected as even his masters remarked on this. And he visited various worlds to seek more knowledge and POD Novel has already provided us a hint that Revan's knowledge surpassed the entirety of Sith knowledge found in Korriban Planet (as Bane reveals this) after learning from Revan's holocron. And I must remind you that Korriban Planet also cantained Tombs of powerful ancient Sith Lords with their secrets preserved in them and Revan explored all those Tombs to discover their secrets. So all this shows that he learned a lot about Sith Knowledge and such great knowledge will also enhance his mastery in the force. Now you get the picture?

 

And Bane was not a fool and he had no reason to lie regarding Revan because Revan's teachings impressed him and Revan even taught Bane the secret of "Thought Bomb", which proved to be very useful to Bane.

 

Did they? This is the first I've heard of it. Care to prove it? Besides, Revan's companions did follow him/her on the Star Forge for a while, up until the fight with Bastila or the three Dark Jedi Masters. You have to remember from that point onwards, their were no more Sith to fight, apart from Malak.

Ok! tell me that what roles can "Mission Vao" and "T3-M4" can perform in such an extensive battle? Even "Zaalbar" is a very vulnerable target in such battles. And Revan will not risk his entire party in such engagements.

 

And no canonical sources have mentioned that all of his party members followed him and if any had then you can mention it over here.

 

Also, check this information: (taken from a detailed Revan's profile)

 

"Aboard the Star Forge, Revan almost single-handedly blew through Malak's defences composed of the Star Forge's droid, Sith soliders, and Dark Jedi, displaying his strong affinity to the Force and her/his mastery of lightsaber combat. He faced off against Bastila once again. Although she was able to renew her strength with the power of the Forge, Revan continued to stay strong no matter how much Bastila renewed her vigor. After winning the fight, he convinced her to turn back to the light side. Bastila used her Battle Meditation to aid the Republic, turning the tide of the ensuing battle. Finally, Revan again confronted his former friend and apprentice, Malak, in an epic lightsaber duel, while the Republic fleet, no longer hindered by Bastila's Battle Meditation, continued its bombardment of the Star Forge. Malak continually attempted suck energy from the Jedi prisoners he held in stasis to renew his strength, but this did not stop Revan, as he released many of these Jedi to allow them to become one with the Force. At last, with no Jedi to help renew his strength, Malak was cut down. Before his friend's death, Revan apologized for starting him down the dark path although reminded him that he continued down it willingly. Malak realized that he had no one to blame for his fate other than himself. Thus Darth Malak, Dark Lord of the Sith, died, his life ending in darkness and regret, and the Star Forge was destroyed. In light of his actions, Revan became known as The Prodigal Knight in the history of the Jedi."

 

And even Malak gave credit to Revan for destroying most of his forces stationed in Star Forge, as he mentioned this in during the battle on Star Forge.

 

Also, you need to distinguish the difference between gameplay mechanics and the plot. The gameplay mechanics in K1 and K2 only allowed you to take two companions at the maximum.

Gameplay Mechanics are limitations added to your actions along with some feats, powers and the way you perform your actions in a game.

 

Examples are:

 

- Concept of "Leveling Up".

- Gender Selection.

- Feats. (A character learns things through training and does not gains feats actually to enhance his abilities.)

- A few non canon Force Moves like "Force Immunity". Technically "Force Immunity" is related to "Force Deflect". But in games, the developers should have provided "Force Deflect" power, which is a canonical Force Defensive ability.

- Damage of Force Moves.

- Low damage of Weapons.

- Party Members joining you and this too being influenced by Gender of main character. (in case of K2)

- Less Force Moves. (in case of K1)

- The Limitations in choosing number of Companions.

- Your actions in the game.

 

Actually the story or plot of KOTOR games are canon and Videos and Narrations in these games are also canon.

 

Storywise, all of Revan's companions would of fought with him/her on the Star Forge, since none of them had any reason to stay on the Ebon Hawk, because half a dozen Jedi Knights were there to protect the ships so the Sith didn't cut off their escape route.

Like I have hinted above, some of his companions will become liabilities for him and would make things more complicated. So their is a good reason to state that not all of his companions followed him in to the Star Forge as not all were warriors and some would get killed in such a battle.

 

And Sith started engaging those Jedi as soon as they landed on Star Forge, so we can't say that more will not come.

 

Do you seriously think that three people would have fought the entire Sith army that was present on the Star Forge? You're looking at things from a gameplay perspective. Storywise, Revan and his/her companions would have had many Jedi Knights and Republic troops helping them fight the Sith on the Star Forge. Logic would tell you that.

A team of Jedi Knights did went in their to stop Bastilla from using her Battle Meditation but many of them got killed.

 

And remember that Malak clearly indicated that it was due to Revan's intervention that his forces were failing.

 

Have you played K2? If you did, you'd realise that Sion, Kreia, the Exile and Darth Nihilus all possessed unique abilities that rivaled Revan's. Their is a concept in Star Wars that if you are more powerful than your opponent, then you will defeat them in an open, 'one on one' battle.

Each K2 character was unique in his own way but Revan's abilities still places him ahead of them.

 

Let me high-light some:

 

- Master Swordsman. (A Prodigal Knight)

 

Revan was the best known duelist in entire Jedi Order in his age. He has proved his superb swordsmanship by killing many powerful individuals.

 

Some of his notable victims were:

 

A) Mandalore - The Ultimate (Leader of the Mandalorian forces in KOTOR era. And he was very powerful.)

B) Yusanis (Greatest Echani warrior ever known)

C) Darth Malak (A very powerful Sith Lord and also a master swordsman)

D) Calo Nord (The most feared Bounty Hunter in his age)

 

And Revan killed many others, especially on Star Forge.

 

- Excellent Precognition ability.

 

Revan's precognition capability was put to ultimate test when he faced the greatest Echani warrior ever known. And Revan slaughtered him.

 

- Great mastery in the Force.

 

Revan explored many worlds in quest for greater power. Some of his Force moves are:

 

A) Force Lightning (Any powerful Sith Lord knows this)

B) Force Storm - Lightning (Demonstrated in Lehon)

C) Mind Control

D) Thought Bomb (Taught to Bane)

E) Telekinetic Abilities (Demonstrated in Lehon and Dantooine)

F) Drain Knowledge (A person who learned a lot from Malachor V will know this as well)

 

Then he also taught Malak in Sith Arts and he knows Malak's moves as well. Which also involves:

 

G) Saber Throw

H) Stasis Power

I) Force Push and Whirlwind

J) Force Choke and Kill

K) Defensive Abilities (Malak could counter many Force Moves as well)

 

Also, Revan learned more powers that have not been revealed yet but POD Novel hints that he knew some more deadly Sith Powers apart from "Thought Bomb".

 

- Very intelligent and Smart.

 

Revan was known for making smart decisions and he proved his great intelligence in the Mandalorian War.

 

- Ability to influence many people.

 

Revan always inspired people to join his cause. But in-case if some did not agree with him then he knew how to convince them with his Mind Control abilities.

 

- Amazing Achievements.

 

A) He led Republic Forces to victory against the Mandalorian Forces.

B) He created a Vast and powerful Sith Empire as a DLOTS.

C) His actions once again led Republic Forces to victory against Malak's Sith Empire.

 

You don't think that the Exile, Kreia, Nihilus and Sion could beat Revan in a one on one fight? I certainly think they could. In fact, I think they all would defeat Revan in combat, but that's just my opinion.

See the above information.

 

I'm not saying that Revan wasn't powerful. In his/her timeline, Revan was powerful, but 'looking at the big picture' which means in the entire Star Wars timeline, I don't see why Revan would be considered as one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever. No way.

His achievements speak volumes about his power. And I have high-lighted many of his abilities now.

 

Darth Sidious was canonically the most powerful Sith Lord of all time.

I fully agree and mentioned this before.

 

Well fair enough, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. I don't think that Revan is among the most powerful characters in the entire Star Wars franchise, but you do. Meh, as Jediphile said, why should we have to agree all the time?

Then its your choice and I can't do much about this.

 

Yes, you do actually. How does this prove that Revan was a brilliant strategist and a military genius? This is just a biast opinion of one man. As Jediphile and EagerWeasel have pointed out, of course Canderous is going to speak highly of Revan. Duh.

Read his details in his profiles and you will know.

 

Apart from Revan's 'cleaning house' tactic, tell me what else Revan did that was fascinating? I'm not saying he/she isn't a brilliant strategist and I understand why people would assume that he/she was, I'm just pointing out that I haven't seen any proof of his/her 'genius' tactics.

Under Revan's command, Republic Forces started employing "Ambush and Retreat" tactics. They also fought in a very organized manner and laid Traps in their paths and led Mandalorians to those traps in many occasions.

 

Canderous explains all this in a very good manner regarding the changes Revan implemented in tactics of Republic Forces to out-smart Mandalorians.

 

There's no way in hell that you've made it clear that Revan was a military genius. This is a weak argument.

Do some search and you will know most of the answers. Spoon Feeding is not always a good idea.

 

It was Revan and Malak who inspired the renegade Jedi to join them in the war and reject the decision of Jedi Council.

No! Revan made the decision to help Republic first and Malak followed him, since he was his friend and started helping Revan in getting more followers.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Your last post eh? You didn't even respond to anythingfrom my last post which proves to me that you have no contradictory explanation for the things that I said. I guess it's for the best since obviously, neither one of us is going to be able to convince the other. It just seems to me that you let your fan-boy love for Revan influence your judgment on whether or not he could defeat Nihilus. It doesn't seem that you have listened to anything I, The Architect, or Jediphile has said, because no matter how much real and logical evidence we present to you, you just turn the other way. But oh well, a little healthy debating every now and then is always fun.

[jonathan7]

Your last post eh? You didn't even respond to anythingfrom my last post which proves to me that you have no contradictory explanation for the things that I said. I guess it's for the best since obviously, neither one of us is going to be able to convince the other. It just seems to me that you let your fan-boy love for Revan influence your judgment on whether or not he could defeat Nihilus. It doesn't seem that you have listened to anything I, The Architect, or Jediphile has said, because no matter how much real and logical evidence we present to you, you just turn the other way

 

QFE

 

I think Revan was a quality Sith Lord/Jedi, but i think too many of the fanboy's around here over rate him, hes he destroyed Malak and all those Sith, but he would have lost to Nihiulus, personally I think the Exile would beat him in a one on one fight but that Revan was the greater leader. If you like Revan would be the Supreme Comander and the Exile the Navy Seals/SAS.

 

Revan had no unique force storm lightning ability, and force lightning is not as good at killing people as a lightsaber. Eg, Yoda can block force lightning, but he would need a lightsaber to stop a lightsaber. I also believe that Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan, Plalpatine/Sidious/The Emporer, Vader/Anakin are all more powerful than Revan and I also believe all the above would loose in a fight against Nihilus because the Exile was the only 'Wound' in the force that Nihilus couldnt feed off

[S_W_LeGenD]

I know he had Force Lightning. There is no power called Force Lightning Storm. Do you not understand? The One exaggerated greatly, he had never seen the Force in action before. I'm gunna use an example provided by

someone before me. Say I went back in time about 2,000 years and I take a flamethrower with me. The people see it in action and they think I have some kind special gift where I can take a canon and create fire to shoot out of it. Obviously we know that's not true, since that's impossible. The One greatly exaggerated.

 

Oh! boy!

 

The One was not as much of an idiot or primitive as you try to protray him here. Many Ships crashed on Lehon planet and many survivors were looted from their valuables (including their weapons) by Black Rakatans, so The One was getting familiar with the high-tech inhabitants of the galaxy and their weapons as well. He was also known to kill a Mandalorian and we already know that Mandalorians were skilled warriors and used ranged weaponry as well in fights, and this shows that The One was not an ignorant individual.

 

And a normal Force Lightning power does not kills several enemies in a single strike because it hits one target at a time. The One clearly said that "many" of his warriors and beasts were killed by a single Force attack from Revan and this power is known to us as "Force Lightning (Storm)". This power strikes its targets from above and hits several targets and not strikes its targets from below in a straight manner like a normal Force Lightning does. So get this information in your head now.

 

here is a brief on Force Storm (Lightning):

 

Force Storm was an extremely powerful dark side Force power and represented the pinnacle of the Force's power to conjure electricity, proving more devastating even than the lethal Force lightning. The user raised his palm upward and through the Force created an explosion of electricity directed at all foes in the vicinity. It was used by both the Sith and Jedi with dark side tendencies during the Jedi Civil War. Unlike the weaker Force lightning, Force Storm was not limited to attacking enemies in one direction, as it affected all foes within a certain radius from the user.

 

Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Storm_%28lightning%29

 

This power has also been demonstrated by "Darth Bane" as well.

 

So stop making baseless claims.

 

Also, read more about The One here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_One

 

Show me somewhere that canon material says he has something called Mind Domination. And don't tell me that you think the fact of how many Jedi he recruited for the war explains that

Check this Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Affect_Mind

 

Revan knew this ability.

 

I've never read the Bane book and don't know what a thought bomb is so...yea.

A brief on Thought Bomb:

 

The Thought Bomb was a powerful and destructive application of the Dark Side of the Force which targeted all Force-sensitive individuals and vaporized clothing, flesh, bone, and even stone within the radius of the weapon's blast.

 

Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thought_Bomb

 

What Telekinetic abilities did he show there? Another thing I'd like to see some material for.

Do you even understand that what Telekinesis means?

 

Here is a brief on TK:

 

Telekinesis, abbreviated TK, was a neutral ability that most Jedi had. With it, they could lift objects according to their concentration and move them, hovering the items in any direction.

 

Most Jedi can lift up objects and throw or move them. And Revan demonstrates this ability during his training session in Dantooine.

 

You surely need to open your eyes now.

 

So anyone who learns a lot from somewhere has Drain Knowledge? That would mean that nearly all Jedi have Drain Knowledge. Nearly all Sith have Drain Knowledge. Nearly all people who take a creative arts class have Drain Knowledge. Need I go on?

Drain knowledge was a power that was surely practised by many powerful Sith Lords of old times. And Jedi don't use this power so your arguement is baseless again. And a person who would explore and learn many Sith secrets in various worlds will surely learn this ability as well because it was a common power. Even Malak demonstrated this ability. You need to use some "Common Sense" as well.

 

Uh...show me in there where I said the power of the Jedi had anything to do with corruption. You obviously didn't actually take the time to try to understand it. We all know that DS energies corrupt. DS energies do not kill. Revan's life was never in danger. Just because he gave in to the DS does not mean he was doing it to protect his life. He did it because he had no choice. As Kreia says, "It corrupts all life that walks upon it's surface." She did not say, it kills all life that walks upon it's surface that does not give in to the DS.

Ok! point taken.

 

Of course he had some knowledghe of defensive abilities, but that certainly does not mean he could absorb DS powers. And your point about how his sheer will saved him from death on Malachor is invalid. All Sith can feed on the power of the DS. How do you think they have any DS abilities at all. In the temple on Dxun, you can "feed" on the DS energies there, and don't tell me that's game mechanics because it's not. There is a difference between game mechanics and the story line.

Sith don't feed on DS power, and they are actually "consumed" by it. And a "Force Sensitive" individual is actually trained in the ways of the Sith before that individual becomes a Sith. Revan's body actually fed on DS energies on Malachor V and thus he demonstrated an ability to absorb DS power. And since Exile can feed on DS energies as well, then this information further clarifies my point.

 

And about Kreia. She was corrupted on the surface of Malachor, but was her life ever in any danger? No, nor was anyone else's. She was simply corrupted by the DS, she never "absorbed" any DS energies, she simply gave in- just as Revan did. And provide me with a source for your statment about how the more lightsided a person is, the more vulnerable they are to DS energies.

She never fed on DS energies so she could not get this capability. She was only corrupted by DS energies.

 

A jedi's sensitivity is determined by his/her affiliation with the Force. Also, a Jedi who is very Light Sided, will always fear the Dark Side and will be more sensitive to such an exposure.

 

I don't care what novel it was in: it's still Darth Bane's opinion. And who said Bane lied? It was his opinion that what Revan taught him surpassed the teachings of the Sith Academy on Korriban. Just because I disagree does not mean either one of us has lied, it just means that I disagree. And I do not disagree with the fact that what Revan taught him surpassed the Academy, just that those were not necessarily his teachings. He learned those techniques from the Trayus Academy, then shared those things with Bane.

So it is your fault that if you disagree with a canon information. And canon materials always have high credibility.

 

And of-course, Revan learned many things from Malachor. But not all of his teachings were based on what he learned from Malachor. His personal beliefs were also involved in his teachings to Bane.

 

I don't remember him actually speaking those words, but maybe he did- I don't know. But if he did, please provide me with a link.

Play KOTOR again and visit the Tomb of Ajunta Pall and meet his spirit and you will know this, when you will interrogate him.

 

QFE

 

I think Revan was a quality Sith Lord/Jedi, but i think too many of the fanboy's around here over rate him, hes he destroyed Malak and all those Sith, but he would have lost to Nihiulus, personally I think the Exile would beat him in a one on one fight but that Revan was the greater leader. If you like Revan would be the Supreme Comander and the Exile the Navy Seals/SAS.

 

Revan had no unique force storm lightning ability, and force lightning is not as good at killing people as a lightsaber. Eg, Yoda can block force lightning, but he would need a lightsaber to stop a lightsaber. I also believe that Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan, Plalpatine/Sidious/The Emporer, Vader/Anakin are all more powerful than Revan and I also believe all the above would loose in a fight against Nihilus because the Exile was the only 'Wound' in the force that Nihilus couldnt feed off

Read my above points before making baseless conclusions. Because my points are backed by some sources.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Wow...this is funny.

 

The One was not as much of an idiot or primitive as you try to protray him here. Many Ships crashed on Lehon planet and many survivors were looted from their valuables (including their weapons) by Black Rakatans, so The One was getting familiar with the high-tech inhabitants of the galaxy and their weapons as well. He was also known to kill a Mandalorian and we already know that Mandalorians were skilled warriors and used ranged weaponry as well in fights.

 

And a normal Force Lightning power does not kills several enemies in a single strike because it hits one target at a time. The One clearly said that many of his warriors and beasts were killed by a single "Force Attack" from Revan and this power is known to us as "Force Lightning (Storm)". This power strikes its targets from above and hits multiple targets and not strikes its targets from below like a normal Force Lightning does. So get this information in your head.

 

here is a brief on Force Storm (Lightning):

 

Force Storm was an extremely powerful dark side Force power and represented the pinnacle of the Force's power to conjure electricity, proving more devastating even than the lethal Force lightning. The user raised his palm upward and through the Force created an explosion of electricity directed at all foes in the vicinity. It was used by both the Sith and Jedi with dark side tendencies during the Jedi Civil War. Unlike the weaker Force lightning, Force Storm was not limited to attacking enemies in one direction, as it affected all foes within a certain radius from the user.

 

First, I have never claimed the One was an idiot, so stop putting words in my mouth. I realized ships crashed there and he took weapons and studied about them, but as I have said in the past, he had never seen the Force in action. And you're wrong about Force Lightning. It hits several enemies at a time, but only in a limited arc in front of you. The only difference between Force Storm and Force Lightning is that Force Sotrm hits all enemies around the attacker and not just in front of him. And btw, I have all my information in my head, it's just that you refuse to listen.

 

Wake up call- not everything on Wikipedia is canon material. People can go post whatever they want on there.

 

My claims do have a base, and that's logical thinking.

 

Mind Domination...Pretty much the same thing as Dominate Mind. Obi-Wan had it, as we see in Episode 4. Just because someone is an influential person does not mean they have a highly advanced form of Dominate Mind. Do you think Malak had this Mind Domination. He recruited plenty of Jedi to fight in the Mandalorian War.

 

A brief on Thought Bomb:

 

The Thought Bomb was a powerful and destructive application of the Dark Side of the Force which targeted all Force-sensitive individuals and vaporized clothing, flesh, bone, and even stone within the radius of the weapon's blast.

 

Fair enough. Since I don't know much about Thought Bombs I don't really have much to say about that, but I certainly know that Revan was not the one who discovered this power.

 

Do you even understand that what Telekinesis means?

 

Yes I know what telekinesis means. You don't have to treat me like a 5 year old.

 

Here is a brief on TK:

 

Telekinesis, abbreviated TK, was a neutral ability that most Jedi had. With it, they could lift objects according to their concentration and move them, hovering the items in any direction.

 

Most Jedi can lift up objects and throw or move them. And Revan demonstrates this ability during his training session in Dantooine.

 

You surely need to open your eyes now.

 

Uh...that is certainly not unique to Revan. I'm positive that Nihilus knew that too, so no advantage for Revan there.

 

My eyes are plenty open. Perhaps you should cut down on the little immature jabs.

 

Drain knowledge was a power that was surely practised by many powerful Sith Lords of old times. And Jedi don't use this power so your arguement is baseless again. A person who would explore Sith secrets in many worlds will surely learn this ability as well. Even Malak demonstrated this ability. You need to use some "Common Sense".

 

Where exactly does it say that he has drain knowledge. From your list of powers that Revan supposedly has, it seems that you're just assuming that he has it. Don't jump to conclusions without some hard evidence to back it up.

 

Ah...another little immature jab. Read it again and you'll see that my point was that not all people who learn a lot from somewhere suddenly have Drain Knowledge. I know only Sith use it, but that doesn't mean that some might have the capability but they just don't use it. And also, Drain Knowledge would really have no impact on a 1 on 1 fight with Nihilus.

 

So it is your fault that if you disagree with a canon material. And canon materials always have high credibility.

 

And of-course, Revan learned many things from Malachor. But not all of his teachings were based on what he learned from Malachor. His personal beliefs were also involved in his teachings to Bane.

 

I'll say it again, Darth Bane's opinion is not canonical material. Now if the author of that book stated that what Bane learned surpassed the teachings of the Sith Academy on Lorriban, then I would believe it. But, it says, "in his opinion" (referring to Bane), Revan's teachings surpassed the Korriban Academy. Until there is some big announcement that says Darth Bane knows everything, then I won't believe that what he thinks is canon.

 

Play KOTOR again and visit the Tomb of Ajunta Pall and meet his spirit and you will know this, when you will interrogate him.

 

When I get around to it, I'll play it again.