Hyperspace travel could become a reality, but of course there are some obstacles.

[edlib]

Well, if you want to live to see it done within your lifetime, that would justify the hurry.

 

I don't think I'll ever live to see humans get much farther than Mars at best before my clock winds down.

 

Even if by some miracle we find a workable hyperdrive technology some time before I croak... I'm positive I'll never see manned missions take place to the outer reaches. The first several hundred hyperspace flights to other solar systems will no doubt be unmanned probes.

[Windu Chi]

Money is simply a reality in our world. There's no way around it. Without it we'd all still be each growing our own food and building our own houses and making our own clothing. Nobody would have time to even speculate about space travel... or much of anything else for that matter. Money allows to concentrate on issues other than our own survival.

There is always away around problems, such as money.

It's end will come one day.

If we can't colonize even our nearest planets and satellites, there's no way we will ever be able to survive outside our solar system. That's an even larger hurdle to overcome.

And even if you were able to get the entire planet to put aside all it's differences tomorrow and concentrate every ounce of energy into creating this technology and populating the galaxy, it would still take a long time. There are an insane amount of purely logistical problems to overcome... let alone the theoretical ones. It's just not going to happen any time soon.

Well, I'm not in that opinion as you are, there is no "just not going to happen any time soon".

It's more like our society is unwilling to overcome the problems, because it's too hard or they believe it to be too hard.

I'm new to the physics of this Hyperdrive propulsion mechanism, but the scientists who are working on Heim's theory, says that the problems to overcome is not that difficult, of course if the physics pans out.

Warpdrive propulsion depends on warping the fabric of spacetime itself by creating a pulse distortion wave from initial point to destination point,the spaceship will be pushed away from the Earth and pulled towards a

distant star by spacetime itself.

The energy requirements depends on the curvature of(rate of change of spacetime geometry) spacetime metric, the metric is the shortest distance between two points in this curve spacetime.

So, it depends on the shape of the pulse destortion wave; warpdrive works by expanding spactime in front of a spaceship and contraction of spacetime behind the spaceship proportionaly to negate relativistic time dilation effects, cause by motion through spacetime; this leads to no or little motion through the spacetime in the center of the pulse, or warp bubble.

A spaceship basically ride a wave, and don't move itself.

The energy needed to achieve this feat need to have

negative energy density: energy density is pressure, energy/volume , the properties of this energy : make a apple fall up in a gravitational field.

This energy is needed to overcome the curvature of intermediate background spacetime; curvature cause by Earth's gravitational field and it's complex interaction with the Sun and all the matter in the solar system, that will have complex effects on a spaceship at warp. The density of matter in the intermediate space between initial point and the destination point, that will either slow the warp velocity or increase it depending on the energy density setting in the pulse and the dampening factor cause by interaction of low or high curvature regions cause by low or high mass densities per unit volume of the matter, respectively.

To achieve the warp velocity at about v>>c velocities like 10000 c, with a warp bubble radius of 1000 meters, warp shell thickness of 1E-6 meters and a ship size of about 100 meters I have calculated the negative energy requirements to be some -3.1288E+3*Me approx. where Me is mass of Earth or E=Me*c^2 , E=-1.6813E+45 J approx., where J is Joules.

But Hyperdrive travel only require power ratings for magnetic fields of some 50-60 T in ranges around 10s kW for 1000kg mass spaceship & 1-10 MW for 100,000 kg ranges for a spaceship.

So, I will say if the theory is right we will achieve interstellar travel much sooner than you realize, edlib.

 

 

 

Joule: A SI unit of work or energy; the work done by a force of one Newton acting over a distance of one meter.

 

Earth mass: 5.979e24 kg approx.

 

Newton:A unit of force equal to the force that imparts an acceleration of 1 m/sec/sec to a mass of 1 kilogram.

[edlib]

Well, good luck with it.

 

I'm still not going to hold my breath, though.

[Q]

This war on terror is leading to a new dark age where science and technology will again be heresy.

Unless, of course, the science and technology can be used to hunt down and kill more terrorists.

 

OT: None of us are going to live to see this, but it's a cool concept to ponder.

[Windu Chi]

Unless, of course, the science and technology can be used to hunt down and kill more terrorists.

 

OT: None of us are going to live to see this, but it's a cool concept to ponder.

All the pondering is getting tiresome, it's about time our society get to doing this.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

OT: None of us are going to live to see this, but it's a cool concept to ponder.

Q.E.D.

 

(edit: from "QFD" to "QED":p)

[Windu Chi]

Q.E.D.

 

(edit: from "QFD" to "QED":p)

You know Dagobahn if people keep having that kind pessimistic belief, like you do about any kind of breakthrough technology, many coming future generations(as you see it) would die without seeing this possible hyperdrive technology realize.

People in our society need to stop being lazy, close-minded and uninspired about science fiction technologies like a highly possible Star Wars hyperdrive engine technology as Heim's Quantum Gravity theory suggestes.

All science fiction will become science one day, if you don't believe it then you will be left in the dust of close-minded thinking like those doubters and uninspired skeptics in the past, with their flawed thinking of our present day technology we have right now.

The path from sci-fi to science is just left to the so called "geniuses" of our species to make it happen.

 

But, if the theory leaves one's ass out then it just not possible in this universe apparently to travel in this universe in a reasonable time scale.

But if one accepts that belief then one should accept that damn Bible literally and accept the possibility that all those stars and galaxies we observe to the measured 13 billion light-years observation range, is just all decoration for us to imagine to our brains melt away into oblivion.

 

But I'm not the one that will lose my optimism early until or if the theory proves be another ass out endeavor for our species, toward interstellar travel.

[edlib]

Nobody's saying to not investigate this guy's theories... just not to count on this to be a quick process.

 

Even if all his theories are eventually proven to be true (a process, if you do it correctly, that could take years or even decades in itself...) building workable prototypes, testing, then scaling them up to human size, and going through the logistics of planning missions, training, and preparing for them is not a fast process.

 

Even if there was a massive public interest in this technology, it still wouldn't be instantaneous.

 

How does one navigate in hyperspace? Do we even understand what hyperspace actually is... other than in theoretical mathematical models, that is?

Little problems like that will need to be overcome before you can safely propel humans.

 

You want to keep an open mind... but not so open that your brains fall out!

 

There are always realistic considerations with any new theory and technology. Just because the possibility exists doesn't mean that everyone is going to jump on it immediately with you.

 

The necessity of this tech is going to be a hard sell, even if it looks like it's going to pan out, as you can no doubt tell just by the responses in this thread alone.

[Darth333]

You know Dagobahn if people keep having that kind pessimistic belief, like you do about any kind of breakthrough technology, many coming future generations(as you see it) would die without seeing this possible hyperdrive technology realize.

He wasn't being pessimistic, he was just being realistic.

 

We just got to the moon less than 40 years ago...so, let's start with Mars, shall we?

 

Also, while space exploration is interesting, I don't see why it should be a top priority. We have enough problems to work on here that I believe are much more important and there is still a lot to learn about our own planet.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

You know Dagobahn if people keep having that kind pessimistic belief, like you do about any kind of breakthrough technology, many coming future generations(as you see it) would die without seeing this possible hyperdrive technology realize.

And if we prioritize this Star Wars utopia of yours, generations will die not only without seeing an end to the conditions in developing countries, but because of the conditions therein.

 

Prioritizing a White Elephant space project while millions suffer is simply incredibly selfish. We have the more than enough resources to make the world a better place for others than ourselves, and we are to spend it on re-enacting Star Wars just because it'd be cool to do so?

 

The awesome PlayStation 3 for yourself or the life-saving antibiotics for your sick cousin. Rich man's dilemma. Plain and simple.

 

If you want space explored, let the private sector handle it so our tax dollars aren't wasted. I love space exploration, too, but come on, isn't our well-being higher on the priority list?

[Tyrion]

You know Dagobahn if people keep having that kind pessimistic belief, like you do about any kind of breakthrough technology, many coming future generations(as you see it) would die without seeing this possible hyperdrive technology realize.

 

Simply inventing a "hyperdrive" is not going to enable humanity to colonize the universe. Let's say that someone does, in fact, invent a engine that can send a decently-sized vessel into nearby solar systems fairly instantaneously. This, alone, won't mean much unless we're able to also accomplish the following:

 

• A pressurized suit that can handle the rigors of an atmosphere without puncturing for prolonged periods of time.
  
• Botanical farms that can host plants and provide nutrients solely by those stored in the said planet.
  
• Proper equipment to mine and process said nutrients.
  
• A cost-effective shuttle that can safely enter and exit an atmosphere using only the fuel it has stored while having enough protection to not light on fire or disintegrate.
  
• Be able to produce durable buildings that can withstand the rigors of an environment that most likely will be filled with noxious fumes or turbulent climates.
  

 

And that's just the beginning.

[edlib]

Yeah, just what I said... only with more specifics.

 

I said it earlier in the thread: The logistics would be a total nightmare.

 

However: If the Earth was in some catastrophic imminent danger, I'm pretty sure we'd make it work somehow in a hurry... but without the threat of destruction, the motivation to have this up and running before our grand-kids graduate college is going to be hard to muster. Just no incentive on the part of Mr. and Mrs. Joe Average, who are just worried about their own day-to-day survival, and making a better world for thier kids.

[Windu Chi]

And if we prioritize this Star Wars utopia of yours, generations will die not only without seeing an end to the conditions in developing countries, but because of the conditions therein.

Why it got to be a utopia all of a sudden, I see there is no use trying to interest a doubter of scientific progress.

When is you going to get this in your head man, there will be no end to the horriable conditions in developing countries, one the rich countries don't give a damn about developing countries, because they are poor countries that don't have enough paper to ensure the continue interest of sucessful prospering countries.

Povery won't end completely here on this rock, if you keep believing that it will then you are living in a utopia.

Africa for one example, racism, racism and racism; genocide will continue there like it is currently happening now; the UN is a organization of failure and of pitiful cowards, they let the genocide in Rwanda happen without lifting a damn finger; AIDS will continue to kill Africans because of money and the scum of racism, racism that is still present in our own species.

Prioritizing a White Elephant space project while millions suffer is simply incredibly selfish. We have the more than enough resources to make the world a better place for others than ourselves, and we are to spend it on re-enacting Star Wars just because it'd be cool to do so?

Make the world better! We are destroying the environment, because of the idiots of the oil companies and the worry about the effect on the economy if we liquidate oil companies.

If we don't have a environment, money won't keep us living, we will perish as a species on this rock if money and the economy keep being more of a priority then the safety of our own environment of Earth.

And who the hell said, make Star Wars happen because it is cool, I think now since becoming of aware of Heim's theory, that Geroge Lucas or whoever put the idea of hyperspace in Star Wars got it from Burkhard Heim's Quantum Gravity theory, since it has been known to the public since 1957.

And of course, I think Star Wars is cool I'm a fan and this is a Star Wars forum isn't it?

Oh, I get it since I talk about Star Wars technology this must be fantasy,

oh damn, I thought this was a Star Wars forum where I can discuss Star Wars technology with Star Wars fans, my bad, I should've known better.

The awesome PlayStation 3 for yourself or the life-saving antibiotics for your sick cousin. Rich man's dilemma. Plain and simple.

What the hell is you talking about?

If you want space explored, let the private sector handle it so our tax dollars aren't wasted. I love space exploration, too, but come on, isn't our well-being higher on the priority list?

Tax dollars wasted!

Money, money and more money is that all you think about.

Since you care about all these suffering people on this planet, money is the simple fact, why we have suffering people on this world, the world don't give a damn about the poor, if they can't scratch up enough paper to pay back the rich countries who they have ask the help from, then the hell with them, as the opinion of those rich countries would have.

If you are a developing country and you don't have enough paper, diamonds, gold, silver or any other precious commodity then you stay poor and developing.

Forever!

I guess I will have to wait and see if or when a comet or asteroid threaten this planet, if the stranglehold of money on our species will determine if our species perish or prosper in this galaxy.

If this disaster happen and I have delayed death of it's prize, then I will have to put my head in between my legs and kiss my ass good bye, because I believe money will cause our species to perish in this galaxy.

[edlib]

Faster-than-light travel has been a staple of classic science-fiction for decades... long before Star Wars and Lucas came along.

 

I would look to the works of Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, Dick, Hebert, Niven, et. al... that were the obvious inspirations of what eventually became Star Wars. I seriously doubt that Lucas did a whole lot of research into the actual mechanics and theories behind that type of travel. It was just a solution to an obvious story problem.

 

After all: If you are going to tell a space opera that makes any sense, you need the ability to get from planet-to-planet very quickly. Hence the need for hyperspace engines, warp factors, wormholes, etc... all roughly based on actual scientific theories.

 

I don't read more into it than that.

 

And the use of money, as well as all the socio-political institutions in place to control it, are just simply the obvious reality of life on the planet today. Any issue brought up has to be viewed in that context, since it's not likely to change any time soon. So instead of bitching about the unfairness of it all, try to find solutions that can work within those systems.

 

I doubt that most of us like it a whole lot better than you... but nobody has ever proposed anything better yet.

 

If hyperspace travel becomes a reality, do you think it's going to cure any of those pre-existing problems? No... it will only serve to exacerbate them; because only the very wealthiest and powerful will be allowed to travel and colonize other planets, and the Earth with become the Galaxy's ghetto... filled with the very poorest, who exist only to build and supply colony ships as the elite flee from the decay they have left in their wake.

 

Speaking of Sci-Fi visions: that's pretty much the vision presented in Blade Runner. That could just as easily become the reality as well... Human nature is unlikely to change just because we have the technology to travel the universe.

[Mace MacLeod]

Okay, this is all just getting silly.

 

Windu6, I don't know where you're getting all these "Mankind got lazy after going to the moon", "We have to go go go go right now, before my breakfast gets cold!", or "We should already be racing through hyperspace now, why are we still stuck here?!" stuff from...actually, check that, I do know. You've seen too many sci-fi movies and tv shows and you're impatient for them to become real.

 

It's embarrassing to still be earthbound? I mean, for who? Technology is moving at a snail's pace...? That's a good one. The internal combustion engine is little more than two hundred years old. The human species has had powered flight for little more than a century. The jet and rocket engines are barely sixty years old. Less than forty years ago, we took our first ever baby steps off of our planet to the moon. And let's not forget that we went to the moon largely just to discover if we could, not because there was ever any real tangible reason for humans to be there. Antibiotics, nuclear power, satellite networks, space stations in near earth orbit, home computers, DVDs...all of these things would be incomprehensible and wondrous seen through the eyes of someone from just 1907. You're not seeing huge quantum leaps of technological and societal development in the 20 some-odd years you've been around, and you're saying "C'mon c'mon c'mon!!! Faster faster faster!!! I wanna go to Alpha Centauri!!! Hurry u-u-u-up!!!" Calm down and be patient, dude.

 

The planets and stars are still going to be there in 50-100 years from now; we have to solve our earthly problems (yes, including racism, money, Nazis, and all your other favourite topics for incoherent, technicolour ranting) in order to make sure that we as a species are still around in 50-100 years' time. Yeah sure, a big meteorite could threaten to wipe us out if we don't move shop elsewhere, but as it stands right now, we're in a lot more danger of wiping ourselves out through war, famine, pestilence, global warming, voting Republican/Sinn Fein/DUP, etc etc etc than we are from spaceborne debris. Our history as a species is just the tiniest eye-blink in galactic or even geologic time scales. Charging out across the cosmos isn't going to solve our problems if we can't figure them out here on earth first; it'll just postpone the inevitable.

[Ray Jones]

The hell, you're right Mace. Mankind ain't ready for intargelucktique trips. But I'm willing to be helpful here.

 

I make dem girls familar with my space rocket.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Why it got to be a utopia all of a sudden [...]

Utopia? I never claimed it had to be an utopia, I claimed it has to be livable. Think about the conditions in your average middle class American neighborhood, then think about the women in Africa who have to walk for two miles just for a bucket of mucky, bacteria-infested water. I don't aim for the Rwandans of North Koreans to live in an utopia, I merely want them to live good lives, like the lives of us lucky Norsemen and Americans and Brits and South Koreans born with silver spoons up our anal openings.

 

And "all of a sudden"? I think humans have been dreaming of happiness for quite some time now.

 

[...] I see there is no use trying to interest a doubter of scientific progress.

On the contrary, I've already stated that I'm very interested in space technology. But not at the cost of the poverty-stricken in the world, the victims of crime, slavery and violence, and the millions bound to suffer from global warming.

 

When is you going to get this in your head man, there will be no end to the horriable conditions in developing countries [...]

Why not? We've ended horrible conditions in other countries. Look at how little was left of Germany and Japan after World War II and then consider how well they're doing today.

 

Povery won't end completely here on this rock, if you keep believing that it will then you are living in a utopia.

Again, I'm not aiming for abolition of poverty. I leave that to the more optimistic socialists.

 

What the hell is you talking about?

As I explained earlier, it's a metaphor depicting the choice we've got to make regarding space travel. Space travel is the new gaming console, solving our planet's problems is the antibiotics for your sick cousin. We've got two options: The cool and the necessary.

 

Tax dollars wasted!

Money, money and more money is that all you think about.

I don't understand how this idea got into your head, especially when your next sentence begins with "since you care about the poor...".

 

And yes, many rich people and countries do care about the poor, as do humanitarian organizations. It's not unsolvable problem.

 

And yes, I've got faith in the fixing of the corrupt and non-functional UN, just like you've obviously got faith in your incompetent NASA.

 

The planets and stars are still going to be there in 50-100 years from now [...]

Exactly. It's not like we're chasing some Mystery Trader from Stars!. We're looking at a universe that's been there for billions of years and shows no sign of planning to vanish in the near future.

 

[...] as it stands right now, we're in a lot more danger of wiping ourselves out through war, famine, pestilence, global warming, voting Republican/Sinn Fein/DUP, etc etc etc than we are from space-borne debris.

Correct. It's a common argument that we should prepare ourselves against Mr. Doomsday Asteroid™, but what about the environmental threats right here at our doorstep? I'm sure the victims of natural disasters, crime and terrorism will be really happy to know that they're at least safe from some huge rock that may hit us in 400 years, but I doubt it provides them much comfort.

[edlib]

I don't know what makes anybody think they could ever get a seat on one of these missions anyway.

[Windu Chi]

Okay, this is all just getting silly.

Of course it is silly to you.

Because discussion is about interstellar travel, this kind of discussion is always silly as you see it.

So, it is pointless trying to interest you, so I'm not going to bother trying to.

 

 

 

The planets and stars are still going to be there in 50-100 years from now

See, that is the kind of laziness I'm talking about.

we have to solve our earthly problems (yes, including racism, money, Nazis, and all your other favourite topics for incoherent, technicolour ranting) in order to make sure that we as a species are still around in 50-100 years' time

.

 

Racism will not be solve that is a fool's errand, even my ranting ass will accept that; when we ever or IF we ever travel the Milky Way racism will still be present, it will be racism of other species in this galaxy.

[Ray Jones]

Windu, seriously, there is more needed than "hyperspace drive technology" to go "out there".

[Mace MacLeod]

Of course it is silly to you.

Because discussion is about interstellar travel, this kind of discussion is always silly as you see it.

So, it is pointless trying to interest you, so I'm not going to bother trying to.

Who said I'm not interested in interstellar travel? Of course I'm interested in interstellar travel. I'm also interested in solving our terrestrial problems like everyone else here except you. As usual.

Racism will not be solve that is a fool's errand, even my ranting ass will accept that; when we ever or IF we ever travel the Milky Way racism will still be present, it will be racism of other species in this galaxy.

Well, now who's being lazy? I for one believe that it is possible to solve problems like that, and that we should put more effort and expense into doing so, rather than pouring all society's resources into hyperdrive research just because some college kids are chomping at the bit to run away from their problems.

 

If the girls on Earth all ignore you, why would the ones on Sirius be any different?

[Ray Jones]

Because Sirius girls eat only human flesh?

[edlib]

Siriusly?

 

OK... with that, I'm think I'm done with this thread.

 

When United starts starts booking cheap vacation flights to the Pleiades, give me a call... and please feel free to come back and tell me "I told you so!"

 

Until then I think I'll just sit back and wait and see if anybody can provide conclusive proofs that this guy's theories have any merit.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Oh, and prioritizing≠Laziness.

[Windu Chi]

Who said I'm not interested in interstellar travel? Of course I'm interested in interstellar travel. I'm also interested in solving our terrestrial problems like everyone else here except you.

As usual.

So, if this hyperdrive engine become a reality, we should remain here and solve every single problem at a 100% success value?

 

Problems: environmental destruction, global warming, diseases, poverty and etc.

What else?

We will always have diseases; poverty will always be present to a degree, global warming: oil campanies and some chemical companies are responsible of this problem.

Possible solutions of global warming : hydrogen fuel cells, get rid of oil companies, stop using oil completely, more nuclear power plants creation & stop heavy deforestation(plants live off CO2, more plants and trees the better) and etc.

Well, now who's being lazy? I for one believe that it is possible to solve problems like that, and that we should put more effort and expense into doing so, rather than pouring all society's resources into hyperdrive research just because some college kids are chomping at the bit to run away from their problems.

The only thing I believe that is going to solve racism, is when the aliens reveal themselves or they land on the proverbial White House lawn, after all the religious rioting.

If the girls on Earth all ignore you, why would the ones on Sirius be any different?

What the hell is this suppose to mean?

Let me guess you are calling me a loser, because I want to travel the Milky Way today so, I must not have a women or getting any.

Huh?