KOTOR III needs more Romance!

[Sith_Reven]

Absolutely there should be romance. A good story needs a few things to make it interesting. Romance and a sort of darkness in the the plot or characters. Romance in kotor is needed. We can not deny that kotor is about the story mostly. Seriously, If your for the combat, thats cool but jedi knight is more suited for that. Whether you believe it or not, the character's romances affect your characters choices, especially if influence is a factor. Now, about the Gay/lesbian thing. Visas marr for example is attracted to you if you are female or male right? yeh. But this topic is quite controversial, and personally I am opposed to gay/lesbian relationships. Let us just stick with good clean...family oriented play.

[Mister Chief]

Ultimately, the developers should choose what forms of relations, gay or otherwise, fit the game most. If they support it in the story, they should put it in.

[Henz]

I love how homophobic the world still is hehe. It's true though, I can imagine huge backlash from the option to be a gay jedi. Star Wars is an old-fashioned world anyway so to me it wouls seem odd. Just adding some thoughts to the table...

 

(I'm not happy with straight relationships being reffered to "family friendly" opposed to gay ones though)

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I don't really care if gay relationships are in KotOR III, just as long as they're not in your face. It needs to be subtle. [Needlessly offensive comments snipped]

[Light of the Fey]

Henz! No more talking about gay/lesbian relationships. You made your point that you want it in. Thank you.

 

Now add some other commentary or please leave. It is my thread, so please respect it.

 

Edit: Do not make this offensive please. I do not want this to be a removed thread. I'd appreciate some serious posts not just jokes. No more talking about gay/lesbian relationships as well. No more. Its getting inappropriate. Thank you. For the romance let the developers decide. Now talk about what should be added except gay-lesbian relationships. Thank you.

[Point Man]

Here's my stance:

Love is a good thing.

[Master Kavar]

A romance plot is a necessary part of any great story, and I hope that K3 (when/if it gets developed) will take that into consideration when drafting up the story and characters.

 

That doesn't mean that I think the romance plot should be thrust upon the player; on the contrary, it should be a side story that plays an important role in how that story unfolds. Whether the player pursues a relationship, ignores it, or even rejects a potential partner, all these choices could lead to a different outcome.

 

Take for example if one of your allies has a crush on you, how you interact with that person may effect how they develop, whether they become better people or maybe even fall to the dark side for it.

 

Jade Empire came closest to what I thought represents the best romance plot system in a video game yet, as your decisions decided if your chosen allie would fall in love with you, and even whether you would make them into brave heros or evil tyrants like yourself. It even decided if they would turn against you at the end.

 

K2 while fun was a bad example, as Disciple, Visas, and Handmaiden can't help but love you no matter how badly you treat them, and won't even try to stop you no matter how evil a Sith Lord you become. Atleast with Atton he looks like he would make a stand against the player, even if she's a woman he cared for, though it never came up.

 

K1 was good, but it only really gave the illusion that your romance made any difference in the story. A male Revan can redeem Bastila with the power of love...and a female Revan can redeem Bastila with the power of their indifferent work acquaintance? Carth coming back to save an evil female Revan at the end of the game was very sweet, but the fact that the option to turn back at this point was cut killed it for me (no pun intended)

 

Maybe the people who claim to hate romance will suddenly find themselves at the end of the game without any friends to support them against the end boss because they didn't care enough to foster those relationships, or by contrast a player who flirted with everything that came their way suddenly finds themselves in a mess of trouble as a jilted lover comes back for revenge.

 

To people who don't want romance in their game, the solution is simple; don't pursue the romance part, and leave others who enjoy it alone. Or better yet, go play a less plot-intensive video game instead, maybe something first-person shooter related.

 

And I apologize to Fey of Light for bringing this up again against her wishes (Sorry, my bad) but I feel possible same sex romance options should be included as well, just like in K1 and Jade Empire. Well written, subtle, and tasteful, it shouldn't offend anyone. Again if you don't want to play one, then just don't. Problem solved.

[The Architect]

Actually, KotOR III doesn’t need romances at all. It really doesn’t. It’d be nice to have, but it’s not necessary. KotOR and TSL work fine with or without the romances. But, as long as it’s optional and not forced on the player, yeah, why not?

 

Still, instead of being repetitive by having male or female party members being attracted to, having feelings for, falling in love with, call it whatever you like, but for example, instead of the no matter what Bastila is attracted to male Revan scenario, why not go for a change?

 

We’ve had plenty of romances in Star Wars before. We’ve seen it in the OT, in KotOR, in TSL, well sought of, and the list goes on. Do we need to see the same clichés done over and over again? To me, it makes the SW galaxy seem like a small place, if anyone knows what I mean.

 

Instead of the attraction, Bastila sees male Revan as Brad Pitt/Carth sees female Revan as Charlize Theron, why not make it that sure, the PC can flirt with and attempt to romance with party members of the PC’s opposite sex, but no matter what, they’re not interested in you?

 

For example, imagine say the PC of KotOR is interested in Bastila and makes that interest clear to her or hints at it, but she is not interested in you. I guess it’s a bit like the scenario with Mira in TSL.

 

Or how about you have romance options, and the level of influence you have with your romance choice/s determines whether your attempt to win the affections of your romance choice/s is a success or a failure. Overall, I can’t say I’ll lose any sleep over what the devs decide to do. Put it this way, I didn’t play KotOR and TSL just to romance with Bastila or the Handmaiden for example.

 

Only if you play them that way! And if you play them that way, just don't bother to get into any of the romance stuff of you don't like it?

 

Actually no. No matter what, you still kill a lot of people and living things.

[PoiuyWired]

Good idea, but the programmers will not be happy to hear this.

Finally I get to romance with HK47?

 

Actually I think there might be a limit, I mean trying to romance with Kreia is just sick and disgusting. Though a twi'lek is fine too.

[Henz]

Actually, KotOR III doesn’t need romances at all. It really doesn’t. It’d be nice to have, but it’s not necessary. KotOR and TSL work fine with or without the romances. But, as long as it’s optional and not forced on the player, yeah, why not?

 

Still, instead of being repetitive by having male or female party members being attracted to, having feelings for, falling in love with, call it whatever you like, but for example, instead of the no matter what Bastila is attracted to male Revan scenario, why not go for a change?

 

We’ve had plenty of romances in Star Wars before. We’ve seen it in the OT, in KotOR, in TSL, well sought of, and the list goes on. Do we need to see the same clichés done over and over again? To me, it makes the SW galaxy seem like a small place, if anyone knows what I mean.

 

Instead of the attraction, Bastila sees male Revan as Brad Pitt/Carth sees female Revan as Charlize Theron, why not make it that sure, the PC can flirt with and attempt to romance with party members of the PC’s opposite sex, but no matter what, they’re not interested in you?

 

For example, imagine say the PC of KotOR is interested in Bastila and makes that interest clear to her or hints at it, but she is not interested in you. I guess it’s a bit like the scenario with Mira in TSL.

 

Or how about you have romance options, and the level of influence you have with your romance choice/s determines whether your attempt to win the affections of your romance choice/s is a success or a failure. Overall, I can’t say I’ll lose any sleep over what the devs decide to do. Put it this way, I didn’t play KotOR and TSL just to romance with Bastila or the Handmaiden for example.

 

 

 

Actually no. No matter what, you still kill a lot of people and living things.

 

Yeah you raise a good point. I think DS love is the real nagging one that would feel forced, cause love between evil people is just a bit warped hehe.

I think if you play pure lighsider though it makes sense that lightsider team-mates would become attracted to you. Maybe the system should be tweaked so how good you are is a major deciding factor in the romance options along with influence.

 

You should get a random crazy stalker at some point too hehe. Just so DS players can kill them.

[SilentScope001]

You should get a random crazy stalker at some point too hehe. Just so DS players can kill them.

 

Dupe of Mical, can be killed by a DS Player who make Atton very mad. An angry (or evil, I do not know) Atton will kill off Mical in the cut content.

[The Architect]

Yeah you raise a good point. I think DS love is the real nagging one that would feel forced, cause love between evil people is just a bit warped hehe.

I think if you play pure lighsider though it makes sense that lightsider team-mates would become attracted to you. Maybe the system should be tweaked so how good you are is a major deciding factor in the romance options along with influence.

 

You should get a random crazy stalker at some point too hehe. Just so DS players can kill them.

 

Oh true, being nice to someone, being LS and all goes a long way to attracting a lady, but I still think DS’ders, who we’d agree that most of them are complete jerks, should still have the option to have successful romances if he/she works on and chooses to. Why?

 

For example, if you were a rich guy who looked like Brad Pitt or Orlando Bloom you could be as nasty as you want and you’d still have ladies crawling at your feet. And vice versa for those ultra hot women out there.

 

So perhaps the success level of romances should depend on the influence (the way you treat them) you have with the romance option/s, the appearance and amount of credits the PC has. Yay or nay?

[AJL]

KOTOR III needs a lot more depth for the characters who travel with you

than there were in KOTOR II.. (KOTOR I was better but it still could have

been even better) And I think there definitely should be some romance...

And also loss...

 

And they really should try to make your lightside/darkside alignment affect

how the peoples you deal with behave around you and respond to you...

[Hann_Starr]

I say let there be romance, though I agree with most popular opinion-as of 10:07 est- that it should be optional. The Male Revan and Bastila story arc was excellent, the Exile Visas/Handmaiden story not so much. Hopefully K3 will have a more expanded romance option with varied situations that could either enhance or destroy the relationship.

[Romans1133]

Hmmm. The romance in Kotor II between My bearded Male and the Marmaluke (I forgot her name) was sort've nice. I tried to not be a geek about it but, come on. The Implication was there.

 

And then there was this, the ultimate Sith way. Even though the Exil may have loved the marmaluke(IforgotHerName) in the end when meeting Darth Nihilus(Which is latin for Nothing Et cetura.) I had the option to sacrifice her.

But, to wheather this was betrayal or not on my part just got me thinking just now. But, whatever.

[SilentScope001]

And then there was this, the ultimate Sith way. Even though the Exil may have loved the marmaluke(IforgotHerName) in the end when meeting Darth Nihilus(Which is latin for Nothing Et cetura.) I had the option to sacrifice her.

 

The Marmaulkae is Visas, and yeah, I agree.

 

To me, the death of Visas for a DS Exile was much more touching than the death of Mission Vao and Zalaabar. You can even have the DS Exile express regret for the deed he has done.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, you can as her to skew herself up also. But unlike the Mission case, it is all optional. So even if you are a flaming DS with good influence on Visas you can still opt to not sacrifice her. And really, a subbie follower who can fight that well, its hard to find. So keeping her won't be illogical, especially since Nihilus is such a wimp.

[SilentScope001]

Well, you can as her to skew herself up also. But unlike the Mission case, it is all optional. So even if you are a flaming DS with good influence on Visas you can still opt to not sacrifice her. And really, a subbie follower who can fight that well, its hard to find. So keeping her won't be illogical, especially since Nihilus is such a wimp.

 

I know that, but you could still do it, and I did it. I really liked how it was optional, unlike the Mission Vao cutscene.

 

And I know you don't have to do it, but still, it's for gameplay reasons. I really want to make Nihlius look powerful, so the murder of Visas would be quite nice.

 

Even if you don't kill Visas, you do convince her to do some sort of Goth-like wrist cutting (at least, how I interpert it) to wound Nihlius [and I know that because both Visas and Nihlius lose HP].

[The Sith'ari]

Romance should be there only if it ties in with the main plot like in K1. In K2, the quasi-romance hardly had that effect at all and could have been scrapped without diminishing the value of the game. But I believe if in K3 romance can be linked intrinsically to the plot, it's only going to do good to the game.

[Pattern Spider]

~snipped off-topic comments~ Everyone (not just Pattern Spider ) stay on topic, please--this isn't about whether or not you like homosexual/heterosexual relationships themselves, it's about romance in Kotor 3

 

The amount of physical intimacy and love being displayed is what counts, not who they're occurring between (as long as they're all consenting adults, naturally).

 

It's been more or less common knowledge for years that Juhani was always intended to be a lesbian - and the Dantooine Academy seems to have been full of us because she has a girlfriend who gets rather irritated if you kill Juhani, and then there's Atris and even Kreia happily declaring their love to the fem!Exile. Even fem!Revan, shameless hussy that she is, gets in on that action as she quite happily romances Juhani and Carth at the same time, and the world hasn't exploded.

 

It comes down to a simple choice of not having to pursue romance options if you're not interested in them, regardless of orientation. If you treat someone badly (such as the way Han felt himself to be being treated by Leia, or the Murderous rivalry between the Exile's admirers), there should be narrative consequences, just as there should be if you treat them well or romantically.

[Allronix]

Y'know what might be an interesting and potentially cool idea is a romance between two of your party members. You can either encourage or discourage this, and depending on your pull with one or the other, they break it off or tell you to bugger off.

 

PC romance? Keep it optional, but I certainly won't blink an eye at a gay romance. Just because it's banned in your book does not mean it's banned in mine. I was actually very impressed when I realized that Juhani's preferences were no accident. She's a sweet, loyal woman, an excellent fighter, and a struggling Jedi who happens to be gay.

[PoiuyWired]

Nah, seeing 3rd party is not too much fun... but getting involved in a love triangle...

Now thats something new??

Fun to see your love interest torn between yourself and an angry sith? Well, obviously having a droid as possable love interest would be interesting... but lets keep those optional. And NO, gizkas are not good lovers.

[Jae Onasi]

PC romance? Keep it optional, but I certainly won't blink an eye at a gay romance.

 

I won't, either, though I suspect that LA would carefully consider the impact on sales of including a controversial topic. If including a gay relationship helps sales, it'll likely be there, and if it does nothing or hurts sales, it'll be heavily downplayed if it's there at all. That's not a slam against political correctness, it's business reality--they're going to do whatever they can to promote sales.

 

Juhani's 'romance' (what little there was) was addressed tastefully, and I'd like all the romances to be addressed tastefully. As long as they include the "Wow, I'm really flattered and you're a wonderful person, but I just don't feel that same way" thing for any romance (gay or straight) in addition to the "Yes, I love you and I want to make mad passionate kisses with you!", it'll likely work pretty well.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

Wow! Excellent thread, Light of Fey.

 

...and I must say, there isn't a better moderator job than with this potentially disasterous subject. Nice work Jae.

 

Thanks, though I can't claim all the credit--I think all of the staff are involved. --Jae

 

One of the draws of the KotOR series games is it's replay value. Is there anyone here who's had the game for at least than six months who hasn't played it at least a few times?

 

Doubtful.

 

When I first played KotOR, I of course knew nothing of the plot and potential relationship factors. On my return trip(s) through this world, I began to explore more and more options each time, eventually playing out the relationships and romantic options for the Revan I'd created.

 

As much as I enjoyed leveling up my Revan, modifying weapons and armor, matching my character to his/her lightsabers and weapons along with progressing the story, It's still those times I romanced Bastilla and redeemed her that effected me the most.

 

I thought that was too cool for a game to go that deep. Then I played Jade Empire and as Master Kavar has stated, has the best romance plot system I've played.

 

K3 should maybe pick up a few tips from that. It's not necessarily what you say that affects your NPC's, it's your actions.

 

...or both.

 

Of course, there has to be at least the option(s) for a tasteful, PG-13 romance if desired, But I agree that it shouldn't be a major plot point. However, it should be deep enough to hold water if the player decides to explore that side.

[Jediphile]

There's already way too much romance in the KotOR games. It was okay in K1, because it was instrumental in Revan's eventual redemption, but TSL doesn't handle it well, since there are too many people who love the exile without it ever having any real impact or significance in the plot. For the male exile, there is clear interesting from both Brianna and Visas, while Mira is in the background and Atris is total outsider. For the female exile, those roles are taken by Mical and Atton, Bao-Dur, and finally Sion respectively. One reason I prefer the male Exile is because Atris is a much better love interest, especially with the love triangle exile-Brianna-Atris, than Sion who makes no sense and comes out of the blue for the female exile.

 

But none of the relationships have any significance, and, worse, some of them, who are now sadly canon, are just stupid. If Sion was to love the female exile, you'd think they could at least establish some prior history between them, so that the exile makes Sion long back for a time when he was not this undead thing, but nope - there is just nothing

 

Quit all the romantic nonsense! Enough, I say! I agree with Kreia...

 

Kreia: "And, like you, he knew he must leave all loves behind as well, no matter how deeply one cares for them. Because such attachments are not the way of the Jedi..."