Realism in KOTOR 3

[legend222]

How about if when the character is supposed to take a blow he\she clumsily blocks it and loses stamina, finally when there is no more stamina the next attack is lethal.

[Windu Chi]

GAMEPLAY > REALISM.

 

Under this golden rule some realism is nice, only if that does not negatively affact gameplay. Having one hit kills is fun and all until you realize that it would make the game somewhat tedious in places. i mean we are playing as Heros, which means normal things does not always apply to them.

GAMEPLAY + REALISM = MORE FUN

 

More realism in combat won't suffer the gameplay; it should be no health bars or a option to turn health bars off.

Things likes losing arms, decapitation or losing other body parts will make the game more fun and less tedious with that realism added; it should not take 10 to 20 strikes to dispatch a opponent, it get's boring after a while waiting to see the health bar deplete by continued hack and slash.

 

KOTOR III should have more REALISM.

[adamqd]

Things likes losing arms, decapitation or losing other body parts will make the game more fun and less tedious .

 

yeah, if you lose a limb you should have to buy a new cybernetic appendage, if you can't afford it you either threaten the medic, or hobble around till you can.

[Prime]

More realism in combat won't suffer the gameplay; it should be no health bars or a option to turn health bars off.

Things likes losing arms, decapitation or losing other body parts will make the game more fun and less tedious with that realism added; it should not take 10 to 20 strikes to dispatch a opponent, it get's boring after a while waiting to see the health bar deplete by continued hack and slash.

TSL was far to easy as it was. You want to make it even easier?

 

As for dismemberment, are people going to be happy with a player with no legs? Good times!

[Jediphile]

TSL was far to easy as it was. You want to make it even easier?

 

As for dismemberment, are people going to be happy with a player with no legs? Good times!

 

Who cares - salvation is only a keypush away, brought to you by quickload ...

 

I know, I know, but they did manage to do it that way in Jedi Academy, and I thought it worked well enough. Or, at least, it was not a problem to me in JA.

[SilentScope001]

As for dismemberment, are people going to be happy with a player with no legs?

 

I would, if only for the comedy.

[Windu Chi]

TSL was far to easy as it was. You want to make it even easier?

TSL was too easy because the combat was computer controlled; all you did is select combat icons and hope and pray the AI could defeat your opponent AI.

[SilentScope001]

TSL was too easy because the combat was computer controlled; all you did is select combat icons and hope and pray the AI could defeat your opponent AI.

 

But your idea will turn the game into button-smashing. And if you smash buttons enough, combat becomes easy.

 

Let me explain...this is a game with Floating Lightsabers! How can you say that a Lightsaber can cut through flesh...when there is no such thing like Lightsabers? Belivability might be something interesting, but since we are the ones that made up the idea of "lightsabers", we can redefine our ideas of "lightsabers" to fit what the KOTOR series mean.

[Arátoeldar]

But your idea will turn the game into button-smashing. And if you smash buttons enough, combat becomes easy.

 

Let me explain...this is a game with Floating Lightsabers! How can you say that a Lightsaber can cut through flesh...when there is no such thing like Lightsabers? Belivability might be something interesting, but since we are the ones that made up the idea of "lightsabers", we can redefine our ideas of "lightsabers" to fit what the KOTOR series mean.

 

Well stated SS. If you want to play a button mashing game then I highly suggest playing a Jedi Knight game. The KotOR series is about the story first and foremost.

[Windu Chi]

Oh, we are back to this again, huh?

But your idea will turn the game into button-smashing.

So!

Also it will be more funner if that happen.

And as I said before in that other thread, I don't want no ACTION GAME I want a ACTION RPG for KOTOR 3.

 

And if you smash buttons enough, combat becomes easy.

No, it won't!

You must have not played Ep III that button-smashing combat is funner and more challenging, but a negative, the blocking system in that game was computer controlled.

Also a lot of other great games with great combat that have button_smashing combat, like Prince of Persia series.

Let me explain...this is a game with Floating Lightsabers! How can you say that a Lightsaber can cut through flesh...when there is no such thing like Lightsabers? Belivability might be something interesting, but since we are the ones that made up the idea of "lightsabers", we can redefine our ideas of "lightsabers" to fit what the KOTOR series mean.

You must have not seen my thread on the physics of a real lightsaber or plasma blade as I called it.

 

Lightsaber will become real one day, stop living in close-minded land.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

KotOR III doesn't need to become an action game. That's not what KotOR is. It's about the story and the characters, not "cool" action sequences. If you want a big action-packed Star Wars game, then get TFU. I don't want to be forced to mash buttons trying to dodge a blaster bolt or swing my lightsaber at my opponent in a vulnerable area.

[RedHawke]

GAMEPLAY + REALISM = MORE FUN

When applicable, but realism must always bow out to the story and gameplay when neccissary.

 

More realism in combat won't suffer the gameplay; it should be no health bars or a option to turn health bars off.

Things likes losing arms, decapitation or losing other body parts will make the game more fun and less tedious with that realism added; it should not take 10 to 20 strikes to dispatch a opponent, it get's boring after a while waiting to see the health bar deplete by continued hack and slash.

Ok... lets take a look at this marvel of a game you would create here windu6 (using kotOR story as a base)

 

Game starts you choose an appearance and a class, but you don't get any attributes or skills because that is the stuff you don't like, they use messy dice.

 

You watch the opening crawl... wake up on the Endar Spire. Trask enters and has his opening dialog, all is well until you have to open the door, since you dislike the game doing things for you, you have an intricate circutry diagram come up and you have to actually re-route the security to open the door...

 

6 1/2 hours later (most gamers would have given up already) you get the door open. (Realism for the win... right?)

 

You go down the hall and start the cutscene with the Sith Troopers having a fight with the Republic Troops. Since you have none of those dreaded health bars the combat drones on... and on... and on.

 

Without health bars and the other neccisary things that the comuter uses for the game you can't die, neither can the NPC's. After 20 minutes of cutscene battle the rest of the players would simply quit the game call it what it is lame and move on.

 

Yeah windu6 a real fun game you would have there.

 

KOTOR III should have more REALISM.

Realism is fine but gameplay and story are more important.

 

TSL was too easy because the combat was computer controlled; all you did is select combat icons and hope and pray the AI could defeat your opponent AI.

That is how RPG's work, please don't attempt to ruin a good thing with your ADD Button-Mashing ways. The AI didn't do the work you did by plotting your attacks, your success rate is indicated by a die roll. This is what RPG's are about. Even your so-called Action RPG's use some form of die rolls to operate.

 

Oh, we are back to this again, huh?

Yup, you certainly seem to be.

 

Also it will be more funner if that happen.

"funner" is that even a word? Besides that is subjective, your ideas are certainly not "funner" to me.

 

No, it won't!

You must have not played Ep III that button-smashing combat is funner and more challenging, but a negative, the blocking system in that game was computer controlled.

Also a lot of other great games with great combat that have button_smashing combat, like Prince of Persia series.

Again this is subjective... does it even occur to you that everyone doesn't like button-mashing, some RPG players are physically incapable of playing them. What about them... why must you insist in taking away their favored game style for your vaunted button-mashing?

 

stop living in close-minded land.

For someone in your obvious hard-line position about RPG's and the way they should work for you to find them fun, you ought to not call others close-minded.

 

"Hello pot! This is kettle, you're black!" -Prime

[Master Kavar]

As usual, Redhawke to the rescue with some common sense.

 

I'm with most people here when I say I'm in favor of some kind of "endurance" bar instead of hit points, so that players aren't being shot/stabbed/sabered repeatedly without consequence. Save the death-blow animations for the final strike in the round, and it would go a long way in terms of realism and immersion.

 

At no time do I wish to be mashing buttons and performing complex button pushing combinations just to pull off a fancy lightsaber move. Save that for Force Unleashed or some other action oriented game. I still love old-school RPG's and I don't plan on switching over any time soon.

 

Of course I'm also in favor of even more realism mechanics that most people would cringe at, including encumberance rules, and limited inventory slots. They are certainly not deal-breakers for me, but I think it would be better.

[Rogue Spy]

Hey lol...do we even know if KOTOR III will come out at all in the end ? I mean iv read alot that there are rumours from BioWare that it might be made by them, but still we don't know..they could just give up at any time and forget about it all

[adamqd]

Hey lol...do we even know if KOTOR III will come out at all in the end ? I mean iv read alot that there are rumours from BioWare that it might be made by them, but still we don't know..they could just give up at any time and forget about it all

 

Sad but true! I kind of hoped K3 would of been the secret next gen release, but that turned out to be "how much can you pervert the force: untrained Dark person".

 

> realism, as long as they actually make it i'll be happy. Don't change a thing! besides, the reason most of us spend so much time in this forum is because we love the first 2 so much, if it aint broke don't fix it.

[Windu Chi]

Game starts you choose an appearance and a class, but you don't get any attributes or skills because that is the stuff you don't like, they use messy dice.

You definitely don't know what I'm trying to say here.

I do like those aspects, they haves games called Action RPGs that have those, but the combat is action base.

You watch the opening crawl... wake up on the Endar Spire. Trask enters and has his opening dialog, all is well until you have to open the door, since you dislike the game doing things for you, you have an intricate circutry diagram come up and you have to actually re-route the security to open the door...

So, RedHawke, I do like that, I have no problem with that, Oblivion(VERY POPULAR Action RPG), to remind you.

If I have a intricate circutry diagram come up and have to actually re-route the security to open the door, that will be fine with me.

But you know, they always can have gameplay options to negate that

task.

 

You go down the hall and start the cutscene with the Sith Troopers having a fight with the Republic Troops. Since you have none of those dreaded health bars the combat drones on... and on... and on.

Drones shouldn't have health bars since they have no health.

Without health bars and the other neccisary things that the comuter uses for the game you can't die, neither can the NPC's. After 20 minutes of cutscene battle the rest of the players would simply quit the game call it what it is lame and move on.

Your sadly mistaken, your desperately trying to save dice combat.

You can die, in the game, with realism!

You are definitely, once again misunderstanding, RedHawke.

No health bar don't mean your are immortal, a stupid game that will be, and will really suck, don't you called that God mode?

 

Realism is fine but gameplay and story are more important.

Duhh!

That is how RPG's work, please don't attempt to ruin a good thing with your ADD Button-Mashing ways. The AI didn't do the work you did by plotting your attacks, your success rate is indicated by a die roll. This is what RPG's are about. Even your so-called Action RPG's use some form of die rolls to operate.

 

What was ruin, was the combat in KOTOR I-II, the combat was a disgrace for true Jedi fans.

Dice cambat is a disgrace!

 

 

 

"funner" is that even a word? Besides that is subjective, your ideas are certainly not "funner" to me.

Why would I care if it isn't funner to you?

Again this is subjective... does it even occur to you that everyone doesn't like button-mashing, some RPG players are physically incapable of playing them.

You are sadly mistaken.

If the button smashing(combat combos) is done right like, in Episode III: Revenge of the Sith the game, it will be very challenging and fun.

The dice combat days are number so give up, or continue to hold on to false hope.

 

 

For someone in your obvious hard-line position about RPG's and the way they should work for you to find them fun, you ought to not call others close-minded.

I was talking about lightsaber becoming a real weapon one day; not discussing RPG's.

[Prime]

TSL was too easy because the combat was computer controlled

LOL. That's ridiculous. If that were true, every traditional RPG out there would be extremely easy as well. Which of course isn't the case.

[Vaelastraz]

TSL was too easy due to a bad AI, and poor balancing.

 

Enemies have to fight in an intelligent way, making use of feat abilities and items. Also, their damage potential should imo be increased, not their health bar.

 

Anyway, to the real-time action vs dice debate:

 

I have played many games, featuring both. And I like both systems. On the one side the reflex based fights, where you actually need dexterity and "skill" to defeat opponents, on the other side the dice-combat. Or probability. Dice is just, well a way to explain probability.

 

I like the combat in Kotor, because it requires no alertness. I can sit back in my chair and command the characters, then I let them fight. I want the animation to be good though, since I'm enjoying the action from a cineastic point of view.

 

I think both systems are good, but the story-driven, dialog based Kotor should definitly stick to the dice combat.

[Windu Chi]

LOL. That's ridiculous. If that were true, every traditional RPG out there would be extremely easy as well. Which of course isn't the case.

 

Hey, you complained that the game was to easy.

Well, if you are talking about the puzzles and quests, then it wasn't that easy.

What difficulty level did you play TSL

on?

I play it on hard setting, that make it more changeling since the dice A.I. have to simulate more hits on your opponents, to kill them.

And your opponent A.I. seem to kill you with ease if your character attributes is not up to par respect to the hard difficulty setting.

[Jediphile]

What was ruin, was the combat in KOTOR I-II, the combat was a disgrace for true Jedi fans.

Dice cambat is a disgrace!

 

To you, perhaps. But there are those of us who prefer the combat system in KotOR. Heck, there people who play it ONLY because it's turn-based combat. If you like button-smashin, good for you, but I don't want to play it - I want my RPG character to do well or badly in the game because of how I chose to build him and his stats and not because I'm good or bad at smashing buttons. That's what "role-playing" means to me. Otherwise my character would be little more than a graphical representation. I've played Jedi Academy only a few times. I've replayed KotOR and TSL over and over. The reason for that is fairly obvious.

 

If the button smashing(combat combos) is done right like, in Episode III: Revenge of the Sith the game, it will be very challenging and fun.

The dice combat days are number so give up, or continue to hold on to false hope.

 

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong I might think you are. I see nothing on the CRPG scene to suggest that RPGs based on the principles of dice (which really just means random results based on probabilities of using certain skills) are anywhere close to going away.

 

But hey, if you like that so much, then there are certainly games for you. You seem to enjoy Episode III. Fine. Why, then, can't the rest of us keep KotOR the way we like it? It's not like there aren't alternatives out there for you.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

This is ridiculous. We all have our different opinions on this aspect of the game, and no one is either "right" or "wrong". Turn-base is more fun (not funner) and/or fitting to the KotOR series for some, and action is more fun and/or fitting to others.

 

the combat was a disgrace for true Jedi fans.

I don't really like you saying that I'm not a true Jedi fan just because I prefer turn-base (for the KotOR series) over action. You may think button mashing is more fun, but I don't. So let's just leave at that, k?

[Jae Onasi]

After playing Asteroids and Pac-Man for a number of years, I believe I've gotten my button-mashing desires fully satisfied, and have quite happily moved on to the more mature RPG category. I'm even happy there's a mod out to get rid of the turret game in Kotor. I play games to relax, and I can't do that if I constantly have to remember "is it sequence 482 or 842 to defeat this guy?" I'm more than happy to strategize on the best way to kill the bad guy and enter the appropriate tactics into the queue, then watch to see how my strategies play out. These particular RPGs are for strategic thinking, not tactical thinking, and I like the games just as they are.

 

I would despise it if K3 combat was very different from K1/TSL. If I want to play an action game, I'll go play SW Legos with my kids.

 

If the difficult level is too easy, there are the re-balancing and hardcore mods for the games to make them insanely tough.

[legend222]

Button-mashing vs. turn-based combat is an interesting debate and it's difficult for me to take a side because I like both. However I'm used to playing turn-based fighting in the Kotor series and that's how it should stay. The game however needs better fighting animations so it looks more like the movies. Instead of Health we should have Stamina, when you get hit you should lose Stamina but instead of actually getting hit the character should clumsily block it. When there is no more Stamina the next hit kills the character. That would still be the same system but would look cooler and would be more realistic.

[Prime]

Hey, you complained that the game was to easy.

So you respond with an illogical comment?

 

Well, if you are talking about the puzzles and quests, then it wasn't that easy.

I'm refering to combat.

 

What difficulty level did you play TSL on?

All of them, and then some hardcore mods when I found the difficulty too easy with the normal game settings.

 

I play it on hard setting, that make it more changeling since the dice A.I. have to simulate more hits on your opponents, to kill them.

My problem is that none of my opponents could hit me, and I would hit them pretty much every time.

 

And your opponent A.I. seem to kill you with ease if your character attributes is not up to par respect to the hard difficulty setting.

My opponents couldn't do anything against me. I was literally unstoppable. Boring.

[Windu Chi]

All of them, and then some hardcore mods when I found the difficulty too easy with the normal game settings.

Well, use hard setting, try that out.

My problem is that none of my opponents could hit me, and I would hit them pretty much every time.

 

My opponents couldn't do anything against me. I was literally unstoppable. Boring.

Well, that must be a glitch.

Unless you are trying to make another point here.