Connection between Exile and Nihilus [Possible TSL spoiler]

[Ctrl Alt Del]

But when the Exile kills Nihilus, he/she no longer needs the bond with Kreia or anyone else, which is how the Exile manages to face Malachor alone. Of course, it's likely that the Exile didn't know this, otherwise they wouldn't need to go to Malachor in the first place.

Yes, I concur, specially with the last sentence. Had the Exile knew about his renewed Force connection, he wouldn't go there to stop Kreia from taking her life and his/her along. Instead, the objective would be stopping the Sith or taking control of them as their lord.

[Knight Of Honor]

Okey, now many of you are talking about Kreia and her ambition too kill the force. In my mind it sounds strange, how would she do that, people say that she use the Exile and Nihilus too accomplish this.

 

Kreia may have much wisdom, and her ambition is really grand. But IMO she`s way over her head, if there is one thing the star wars universe has taught us, it is that the force is beyond what is possible too understand. How did she think she could do this?

 

Kreia is an amazing character, but i really think she sacrifice so much, and in the end its for nothing..

[Rev7]

^

Betrayal. I think that she had enough of the betrayal. Nihilius & Sion betrayed her, the Jedi Order betrayed her, and she probably thought that the force betrayed her. Better yet, she wanted to destroy (kill) the force to kill all those who had betrayed her?

[TKA-001]

Expository text during loading screens on Malachor state that if the echoes of Malachor aren't stopped, then they will eventually deafen everyone to the force.

[luckyariot]

...which would kill 'bout 90% of them.

 

But I was under the impression that Kreia tried to destroy the Force because she hated how it manipulated others, resulting in so much death and darkness. Hypocrite.

 

On topic: I love this theory. Makes complete sense and has plenty of valid evidence.

[The Source]

Connection between Exile and Nihilus?

Besides being taught by Kreia, I don't think there is any other connection. One absorbs the force, and the other is a hollow shell. Nothing more.

[TKA-001]

Yeah, I always thought the idea of Nihilus being the evil half of the Exile was pretty dumb as well, regardless of what the writers' original intent was. It also makes even less sense if the Exile is dark-sided.

[JCarter426]

Connection between Exile and Nihilus?

Besides being taught by Kreia, I don't think there is any other connection. One absorbs the force, and the other is a hollow shell. Nothing more.

 

They are both wounds in the Force, and they both drain life from other Force Sensitives. Oh, and they both taught Visas and had a Force bond with her (but that's not really relevant ).

[Sgt. Strike]

I actually think that Nihilus is an aspect of Kreia, rather than the Exile. More parallels between Kreia and Nihilus than Exile and Nihilus.

[JCarter426]

How so? The only thing I can think of is that Nihilus cut her off from the Force.

[Blix]

Nihilus Cut Kreia off from the force?? I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but when did that happen in the game? Do you mean when Nihilus and Sion turned on her and threw her out of the triumverate, that was actually an exiling, not the cutting off of her powers.

[JCarter426]

That's when it happened.

[Blix]

That's when it happened.

 

She did have her powers available when she met the exile on Peragus though, or unless you're meaning that the Exile reactivated Kreia's powers, as Kreia reactivated the exile's through their "bond"?

[JCarter426]

She eventually gained them back. It wasn't a permanent loss, far less severe than the Exile's. Kreia says this more than once.

 

"There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense. I was cast down. Stripped of my power."

 

"Let me show you - you, who have forever seen the galaxy through the Force. See it through the eyes of the exile, as I have"

 

And so on.

[Blix]

She eventually gained them back. It wasn't a permanent loss, far less severe than the Exile's. Kreia says this more than once.

 

"There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense. I was cast down. Stripped of my power."

 

"Let me show you - you, who have forever seen the galaxy through the Force. See it through the eyes of the exile, as I have"

 

And so on.

 

Oh right, I remember that sequence in the game. I don't think I read too much into the dialogue or meaning in that sequence, which is why I figured she meant figuratively (i.e. stripped of her rank in the triumverate, and cast out of Malachor V).

[Gurges-Ahter]

This might have already been said - I apologize for not reading all of the posts before writing this - but I just read this on Wookieepedia and thought it was worth sharing:

 

In an interview conducted by a fan Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic website, Chris Avellone is asked what his intentions for Darth Nihilus were. Though he did state that his origin story is non-canon, Avellone planned to have Nihilus be the Jedi Exile's "other half" when Malachor V was torn apart.

[luckyariot]

#1: As has been stated about 10 times on this thread, Kreia is not the equivelant of the exile, as the exile is unique. Whatever parallels you can find between them, Kreia is not the one who can deny the will of the Force-this 'power' of the exile is why Kreia uses her in her plots.

 

#2

Yeah, I always thought the idea of Nihilus being the evil half of the Exile was pretty dumb as well, regardless of what the writers' original intent was. It also makes even less sense if the Exile is dark-sided.

Ya know, it would make a lot more sense to post WHY, instead of just saying that this whole theory is is crud. That is a bad argument in comparison to Jediphile's evidence... Nihilus coming out of nowhere makes no sense at all if the exile is unique, the descriptions of their powers sound the same, and just because the exile rejected her Force sensitivity and inner-darkness at Malachor V doesn't mean she is pure. A DS Exile could easily exist, even with this theory. If I remember correctly, the theory goes that the Jedi create light, but Sith use the darkness that will always exist. The Exile could have used the darkness even after the initial rejection. Also, consider the writers working on this game. Look at their other works, and this theory seems all the more possible IMHO.

[TKA-001]

That is a bad argument in comparison to Jediphile's evidence...

First of all, almost all of Jediphile's "evidence" is simply random statements from the game with his own [fanon] assumptions/interpretations used to tie them together.

 

the descriptions of their powers sound the same

Nihilus directly and almost instantly drains and kills his victims. Exile drains people over time by bending them to his will.

 

and just because the exile rejected her Force sensitivity and inner-darkness at Malachor V doesn't mean she is pure. A DS Exile could easily exist, even with this theory. If I remember correctly, the theory goes that the Jedi create light, but Sith use the darkness that will always exist. The Exile could have used the darkness even after the initial rejection. Also, consider the writers working on this game. Look at their other works, and this theory seems all the more possible IMHO.

Why is it so much more logical to assume this whole thing about the Exile rejecting his evil self rather than Nihilus is simply someone else who became a wound in the force? How can this theory possibly make more sense?

[Gurges-Ahter]

Why is it so much more logical to assume this whole thing about the Exile rejecting his evil self rather than Nihilus is simply someone else who became a wound in the force? How can this theory possibly make more sense?

 

It could possibly make more sense because no one else had encountered a "wound in the force" before the Exile and Nihilus, therefore the chances of 2 separate fallen Jedi becoming wounds in the force at the same time is essentially nil. It makes more sense that one was the offspring of another, or rather, that they are from the same entity.

[exilefollower]

Well I have to say i just love the theory. It makes sense and explains a lot of Kotor2. I never liked the exile just being a wound in the force. Made me feel like my exile was 'tainted". If we look at it the way Jedifile put it makes Kotor2 a more fulfilling experience. Besides this theory doesn't limit the possibilities of Kotor3. I don't think they would base a game on healing the wound of the exile.

[Corinthian]

I reject this theory. Not because I find it implausible. On the contrary - given what Avellone does on a routine basis, I find this infinitely plausible.

 

The problem is that I think it's dross. The idea of Exile's soul splitting in half and then taking root in another guy's corpse is frankly ridiculous. MORE ridiculous than Dark Empire - the Emperor's ghost at least only took over clone bodies that were still alive. It does complete the creepy triangle, though. We've got Treacherous Mom, Horror Lover, and Monster Me. All we need right now is Evil Vampire Dad and Sadist Sister and we've got the whole family freakshow dynamic.

 

The only real problem I can see for this from a story perspective is that Nihilus is destroyed...how?

 

By the Exile accepting...whatever the hell you want to call it into him? By banishing it? By casting aside the darkness? SOMETHING?

 

No. We hit it with a lightsaber a few times and he fell over like a limp duck. And keep in mind this is AVELLONE, the guy who ends an Act of a story with a long dialog instead of a bossfight.

[TKA-001]

I reject this theory because it destroys any idea of Nihilus being his own character, reducing him to something ripped off from another genre that is completely foreign to Star Wars. He's supposed to be a mirror of the Exile, sure, but that's it. It also doesn't make sense if the player wants to be dark sided.

[Gurges-Ahter]

It also doesn't make sense if the player wants to be dark sided.

That's a good point, but just thinking out loud (or in writing) right now, I guess it doesn't really make sense for the Exile to be DS at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the destruction of Malachor V forced all of Revan's Jedi to make a choice - join Revan as a DS Jedi or die. The Exile was the only Jedi to break away from those 2 options, as she chose to disconnect from the force altogether, right? That being the case, and this severance being as painful as described, it seems as if the Exile would literally do anything to avoid going to the DS. Why would she then later choose the DS, after going through so much to avoid it?

 

Perhaps part of my assumptions described above are wrong, so I would love to listen to any feedback that some of the TSL experts might be able to offer.

[Darca Lar]

not exactly. The DS is always tempting, just think of the Skywalker legacy. Even if the Exile tried to avoid it, circumstances could easily tip the scale. Plus one's opinion can change in such an amount of time.

[Non-false Jedi]

I got the impression that Nihilus was the Exile's sorta metaphorical other half, not his literal dark self. People speaking of Nihilus's backstory seem to inicate clearly he was just a jedi possibly caught in the wake of the destruction of Malachor who learned some type of teaching there and become whatever the heck his was in second game.