These are the Kinds of People the US is fighting around the world

[GarfieldJL]

Hamas Mickey Mouse

 

There is also a video that accompanies it, these people try to train children to be suicide bombers to want to kill nonmuslims.

[SilentScope001]

Listen, many people AGREE with you that terrorism is bad.

 

But they disagree with how to fight it.

 

That's it. Disagreement. That is not cause for concern. Especially since I'm more worried of the threat of China and Russia.

 

If we all agree on the same things, well, we wouldn't be a democracy. In fact, we wouldn't even be free. We would, in essence, well...we would be a dictatorship, run by one belief. I rather would have this political debate between the two sides, rather than to scuumb to a dictatorship.

[GarfieldJL]

True, however we can't run a war by committee, nor can it be ran by popular opinion.

 

The terrorists pay attention to our media, and they gain confidence from our media.

[SilentScope001]

True, however we can't run a war by committee, nor can it be ran by popular opinion.

 

Actually, maybe it should. No, we won't randomly pick [so-and-So] to be Supreme General of the American Army, but we do need to look over and have the Military's accomplishments be judged by the people who are in control, that is, the President, the Senate, and lastly popular opinon that elect the President and the Senate.

 

If we have nobody to judge how succesful we are in any military campagin, if we disenfrancise the people in power, us, to make the final desicion, that is a step I do not wish to take. The american people have little power already, and to lose more of it sort of takes away the point of it being a democracy.

 

With that statement, I can understand why the President won't look at poll numbers, it makes sense really. But, come Janurary 20th, 2008, if the Democrats win, well, they are the ones in control, and it is up to them to decide.

 

The terrorists pay attention to our media, and they gain confidence from our media.

 

Well, they gain confidence from anything, really. If you do not believe in the aims of the terrorists, and I assume you do not, then they can easily motivate themselves by picking up a Holy Book that you personally disagree with and randomly choosing a verse to read, interperting it to mean whatever they want. Or they can just look at that Youtube video and be happy. Or look at other Youtube videos made by other insurgents depicting victories that they won in the battlefield.

 

They only use properganda to sway themselves, but that is all they are swaying. From what I hear, they are, for the most part, just preaching to the converted. In some cases, that is useful, to make them ready to risk their lives for their cause. But they can do that already, meaning that we shouldn't limit our own ability to criticize.

 

Still, censorship does have its value, at least in making the American people happy and allowing for US troops to stay there. I do object to it because it prevents the people, who are supposed to be rulers of America, from deciding what to do. But I can see its appeal.

[GarfieldJL]

There was censorship during World War II, it was to prevent the enemy from gaining information concerning our forces, that's what I'm saying the media is doing. Troop morale isn't like it was in Vietnam, it's a lot higher and many of our troops think we can win. I imagine our troops know more than we do concerning the situation and based on how lopsided the reporting is.

[Jae Onasi]

Anyone showing videos like that to kids in the US would likely find themselves in trouble with Child Protective Services and the cops for child abuse.

[GarfieldJL]

Anyone showing videos like that to kids in the US would likely find themselves in trouble with Child Protective Services and the cops for child abuse.

 

Yeah well this is what Hamas is airing for children in Palestian territories to watch.

[Prime]

I wouldn't say I am particularly surprised by this...

[SilentScope001]

Eh. I finally got the time to watch that video and it looked...strange.

 

That Mickey Mouse look so like a copycat, and it was so strange that, well...er...

 

You know what? If Hamas continue to do sort of properganda, the Americans will win the War on Terror. I'm serious. This television program stunk, badly. Quite badly. I'm sure Palestinan kids are rolling their eyes over this.

 

These are kids for crying out loud! You want them to study, get more powerful, rise in the ranks of Palestine, raise the economy of Palestine, raise more money for the goal of resistance against the "Zionist occupiers"? Sure, glorify the throwing of stones, I'm fine with that. Glorify Resistance. But, please, make it less blantant, and teach them other more important skills.

 

Do note, kids already believe a lot of stuff about Palestine, similar to the views of Hamas and Fatah, in that Palestine needs to be free, occupation is bad, yadda, yadda yadda. So all this video does is preach to the converted. But still, it's bad.

 

Luckily, I'm glad that many of this stuff is just taken out of context. Hopefully,

"Mickey Mouse" will stop talking about resistance from the Israeli occupiers to start teaching kids more important life-skills, like the ABC's. Maybe some good jokes as well. Have to be more entertaining than...this. Plus, a kid can set up a satillate dish, watch Cartoon Network, laugh, and still, in their spare time, learn about Palestine's struggle. If Hamas TV wants to remain more competitive, it has to branch out.

 

I'm sorry for this sentiment, but really, I want better opinon pieces and work of art, no matter where they come from. All properganda directed to kids must be, in the end, entertaining and fun.

[GarfieldJL]

I don't think Hamas cares about the kids other than as human bombs.

[SilentScope001]

I don't think Hamas cares about the kids other than as human bombs.

 

Sure they do. Who else leads Hamas?

 

Adults who grown up from kids.

 

Plus, kids are their future. They are the ones who will inherit Palestine, and bring it to prosperity.

 

In an article in Newsweek maganize, before the Hamas' election to the government, they talked about how Hamas does not recruit willy-nilly. In fact, they only recruit people they feel are very loyal to their cause, and being a member of Hamas is a honor. So, no, they don't kidnap childern and send them off as childern soilders. They first see that they believe in their cause, and then they get recruited. (That's a bit more moral than the armies in say, Africa, where warlords just kidnap childern, and then indoctrine them.)

[Jae Onasi]

In fact, they only recruit people they feel are very loyal to their cause, and being a member of Hamas is a honor. So, no, they don't kidnap childern and send them off as childern soilders. They first see that they believe in their cause, and then they get recruited. (That's a bit more moral than the armies in say, Africa, where warlords just kidnap childern, and then indoctrine them.)

 

Oh, well, now that makes everything hunky-dorey.

[SilentScope001]

Oh, well, now that makes everything hunky-dorey.

 

I'm just looking at the bright side.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

True, however we can't run a war by committee, nor can it be ran by popular opinion.

You and I both live in democratic countries. They have to be run by popular opinion. Anything else is authoritarian and supposed to be the very thing the War on Terror is against.

 

If there was no dissent, war crimes on both sides would be far more widespread, and we'd still be buying the WMD story.

 

The terrorists pay attention to our media, and they gain confidence from our media.

If I was at war with the USA, the blatant support of human rights violation and breach of various international laws would be a great source of confidence I was doing the right thing, yes.

 

There was censorship during World War II, it was to prevent the enemy from gaining information concerning our forces, that's what I'm saying the media is doing.

The media does not necessarily need to show where troops are positioned.

 

Anyone showing videos like that to kids in the US would likely find themselves in trouble with Child Protective Services and the cops for child abuse.

Breaking news. The Middle Eastern front of the War on Terror was won just ten minutes ago when angry CPS and Disney's agents arrested all terrorists in the Middle East on charges of child abuse and copyright infringement. Sylvia, you've got tomorrow's weather...

 

You know what? If Hamas continue to do sort of properganda, the Americans will win the War on Terror. I'm serious. This television program stunk, badly. Quite badly. I'm sure Palestinan kids are rolling their eyes over this.

Dexter's Laboratory is quite horrific, too, yet kids love it for some reason.

 

I've also read (in a Norse news article) that Palestinian children are ecstatic about this programme. The program also allows viewers to call and sing along to anti-Israeli songs.

 

I don't think Hamas cares about the kids other than as human bombs.

It seems sometimes that the HAMAS party probably doesn't care much about anything save from eliminating Israel.

[GarfieldJL]

Actually the United States Constitution clearly states that it is the President whom is the commander and chief not a mob.

[SilentScope001]

I've also read (in a Norse news article) that Palestinian children are ecstatic about this programme. The program also allows viewers to call and sing along to anti-Israeli songs.

 

Eh. As long as it is succesful, that all that counts. Still is a bit boring though. Maybe I'm just old.

 

It seems sometimes that the HAMAS party probably doesn't care much about anything save from eliminating Israel.

 

Well, they do actually care about building up a future Palestian state to replace Israel (resistance is always on the forefront though). Hamas has a lot of charity networks within Gaza and West Bank, and run schools and hospitals as well. Kinda the reason why they are so popular within Palestine to begin with. They are a "state-within-state", and they are quite effective in winning hearts and minds.

 

Actually the United States Constitution clearly states that it is the President whom is the commander and chief not a mob.

 

Yeah, but who chooses the President?

 

The Electroal Collage.

 

Who chooses the Electoral College? Why, the mob.

[JediMaster12]

These are kids for crying out loud! You want them to study, get more powerful, rise in the ranks of Palestine, raise the economy of Palestine, raise more money for the goal of resistance against the "Zionist occupiers"? Sure, glorify the throwing of stones, I'm fine with that. Glorify Resistance. But, please, make it less blantant, and teach them other more important skills.

Oh but the imams tell them that if they do this act for Allah, they will be glorified by going to heaven and getting their 79 virgins or whatever the number is these days. The social organization is one where it is the imams who teach the Koran and the hadiths to the children and teaches them how to be good Muslims. Part of it is also driven by the hate they have for the Israelies but there is guilt on both sides. I got to view what it is like trying to get in and out of the Gaza Strip.

 

I am well aware that it is not the old bearded men who teach the Koran that are going out and doing the suicide bombings and the terrorist acts but young children and young men and women. Believe me I think there is something wrong with this picture but what do you do when you are taught at a young age to listen to your elders and obey them? Yeah we are all taught that but look at the social arrangement of a Muslim family, especially the conservatives. It is quite different.

 

Well, they do actually care about building up a future Palestian state to replace Israel (resistance is always on the forefront though). Hamas has a lot of charity networks within Gaza and West Bank, and run schools and hospitals as well. Kinda the reason why they are so popular within Palestine to begin with. They are a "state-within-state", and they are quite effective in winning hearts and minds.

What better way to get future militants to fight for your cause?

[SilentScope001]

Oh but the imams tell them that if they do this act for Allah, they will be glorified by going to heaven and getting their 79 virgins or whatever the number is these days.

 

Don't forget and neglect the Nationalist aspect however. It is nationalism which is one of the major causes of wars, after all.

 

These people are angry at Israel, because, according to them, Israel invaded and took over all of the territory of Palestine. They just want to take it back, by destroying Israel. When the PLO first formed, it was a secular terrorist group, calling for the destruction of Israel in order to create a new Palestine state. PLO, and the Fatah party, grew quite powerful and mighty. Hamas has a religious bent, true, but they also, at one point, shared the same goals, creation of the Palestine state. They merely disagreed on wheter the state would be secular or religouslly based. However, when the PLO decided to drop its demands for the destruction of Israel, Hamas and PLO had a falling out.

 

The point being: the PLO grew mighty and powerful, without any calls for matrydom or vrigins or whatever. They grew because they wanted to create a brand new Palestiain state.

 

So, religion plays a role, but it is not the sole, defining focus in this conflict.

 

I am well aware that it is not the old bearded men who teach the Koran that are going out and doing the suicide bombings and the terrorist acts but young children and young men and women. Believe me I think there is something wrong with this picture but what do you do when you are taught at a young age to listen to your elders and obey them? Yeah we are all taught that but look at the social arrangement of a Muslim family, especially the conservatives. It is quite different.

 

Even then, old bearded men can get matryed too. Israel would target terrorist leaders, who are old bearded men, and these men are glad for being murdered by Israel.

 

I also do think that people are giving far too much focus on sucidie bombings and, not, say on rocket attacks. You can launch rockets over and over, and the person launching the rockets does not die.

 

What better way to get future militants to fight for your cause?

 

It is mainly to get people to like Hamas, which is always a good thing. Getting future militants to fight for their cause is also a main point, but I do think they are also thinking of laying groundworks for a future Palestine state as well. Hey, after Israel eventually collaspe, you need to start looking ahead, no? Even then, the life in the Gaza Strip is bad, and you need to make it at least bareable. Prehaps according to some radicals, they could think "All the Zionists want to do is make the Palestinan people break, so let us not break. Let us grow our economy, let us raise money, and let us be rich, so that we show the Zionists that Palestine has a future!"

 

Besides, while cannon fooder is nice, so is cold-hard cash needed to pull off the deeds, or to fund a war. That's where an economy comes in.

 

Plus, since that "resistance" term is so...vague, well, you can use it to justify anything. "Resist against the Zionist occupation! Go to school and study to be a professor!"

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Actually the United States Constitution clearly states that it is the President whom is the commander and chief not a mob.

I know that. And yet, if you let el Prez do whatever he wants, he'll very quickly abuse that power. The 'we must trust our President to know what's best' attitude is incredibly dangerous as it allows the administration to pretty much do whatever it wants, without intervention from You the People. Which is not good at all.

[Mike Windu]

Dago, I've finally found the flaw in all your logic!

 

Dexter's Laboratory is quite horrific, too, yet kids love it for some reason.

 

!

 

Dexter's Lab was a great show. Don't hate.

 

In all serious, this isn't surprising. Somewhat sad yes, but not surprising. At any rate, remove bush war crimes geneva terrorism support troops not war guantanamo china north korea. That'll be the sum of this thread.

 

edit - oh and, by the way. That opening article is from Fox News. A well known Conservative source. Not saying that that detracts from the Mickey Mouse lookalike. But those people are rather pointed in their opinions.

[Windu Chi]

Actually the United States Constitution clearly states that it is the President whom is the commander and chief not a mob.

Well, the commander in chief is a idiot, does it says anything

about handling idiots who somehow gotten themselves in power ?

 

The terrorists pay attention to our media, and they gain confidence from our media.

 

Yeah, whatever !

 

If the terrorists want to wipe us out, they will wipe us out, they don't need confidence from the our media to do that.

 

I don't think Hamas cares about the kids other than as human bombs.

 

I think that is obvious now, they see all their citizens as weapons to kill Jews.

 

Hamas must be liquidated !

But the UN is a no show, as usual.

Hamas regime are like roaches, they don't die easily.

[JediMaster12]

If the terrorists want to wipe us out, they will wipe us out, they don't need confidence from the our media to do that.

They would if they can twist it to show that the Americans are attacking the character of their people. Like anything else it can be twisted to their own means. That is the beauty of propaganda.

 

Hamas must be liquidated !

But the UN is a no show, as usual.

Hamas regime are like roaches, they don't die easily.

So your solution is to solve violence with more violence? I understand that the terrorist groups don't recognize our idea of conforming to the rules of war as exampled from Geneva. Still to kill to end something is not always the best way to go.

[Windu Chi]

They would if they can twist it to show that the Americans are attacking the character of their people. Like anything else it can be twisted to their own means. That is the beauty of propaganda.

You, know JediMaster12 we use propaganda too.

 

So your solution is to solve violence with more violence? I understand that the terrorist groups don't recognize our idea of conforming to the rules of war as exampled from Geneva. Still to kill to end something is not always the best way to go.

 

Tell me something then, how do suppose we reason with Hamas?

All they want to do is kill as many Jews as possible, how do you combat hate like that?

Their idea of a solution is to wipe Israel out.

I can't stand people with that kind of hate, that hate the Nazis had and I really hate the Nazis and other people who have commited genocide over the years because of that much hate.

The evil they commited was unacceptable, that is the same evil Hamas want to commit on the Jews.

So, if they don't want a peaceful resolution only a genocide, then that organization must be wipe out, they are to dangerous to be left alive.

[mur'phon]

Tell me something then, how do suppose we reason with Hamas?

 

By talking to them?

 

All they want to do is kill as many Jews as possible

 

what they want is to destroy Israel, which isn't the same as killing as many jews as possible

 

Their idea of a solution is to wipe Israel out

 

Wich is so much worse than ocupying most of a country, and wall in the rest

 

So, if they don't want a peaceful resolution only a genocide, then that organization must be wipe out, they are to dangerous to be left alive.

 

By your reasoning, we must kill the Israeli government, they are to dangerous to be left alive

[Windu Chi]

By talking to them?

You are naive if you believe they want to talk, they don't want to talk they want to kill.

What news you have been watching?

 

 

what they want is to destroy Israel' date=' which isn't the same as killing as many jews as possible[/quote']

You are sadly mistaken !

They want to murder every Jew on this PLANET.

 

 

 

Wich is so much worse than ocupying most of a country' date=' and wall in the rest[/quote']

I'm not sure about your feelings toward Israel, but get this straight, Israel is not going no where, Hamas won't get that satisfaction.

They will have do deal with it.

But as I was saying, Hamas want to kill Jews every where on Earth.

I don't know where you get the idea, that they only want to destroy Israel.

Their hate for Jews is very apparent, mur'phon.

You need to do some more research.

 

 

 

By your reasoning' date=' we must kill the Israeli government, they are to dangerous to be left alive[/quote']

What the hell are you talking about, I'm talking about wiping Hamas out.

I'm starting to see a pattern here, you must really hate Israel.

And if you hate Israel then it's a good bet you probably hate Jews too.

The Israelis are Jews, you know that don't you?

I'm not arguing or trying to start a flame war with you, I'm just trying to figure where you are coming from with that, "we must kill the Israeli government" statement.

A lot of people hate Jews in this world, so you should realize that I'm suspecting you probably hate them too.