Scream For Independence!

[Pavlos]

Most glorious country? ….. U.S.A is one of the most corrupted places, they only care for money, petroleum and they’re on need. Why have the U.S.A is involucrate in al the modern wars? Iraq-Petroleum, Word War I and II because of the great depression they needed money and war brings money. U.S.A is not the most glorious for me its Swiss or Italia, beautiful countries with no politic disorder union amount people.

 

I don't think you give America enough credit for what it does. I don't agree with a lot of the United States' foreign policy but they are, essentially, policing the world now and you have to give them some kudos for that. For all their ills, the USA is a very benevolent power to have as top dog. They don't have to intervene in places like Bosnia, or give aid to starving and sick people across the world; they could hide behind their walls, sit at home, get some milky tea, and eat a couple of soggy biscuits. But they don't, they rule and defend the "free world."

 

The American Constitution is a marvellous piece of work and forms the basis of modern democracy - and the US citizens have every right to be proud of this document. Every nation is plagued by corruption nowadays but at least the Americans have state institutions for dealing with said corruption.

 

You also seem to be portraying the Americans as the aggressors in both the World Wars - which is completely false. In the Great War and in the European theatre of World War II - not well up on the Pacific theatre, so I can't comment - it was Europeans who decided to go to war... as we so often do.

 

Edit: I also don't know where you get this idea that the Scottish as a whole have a drive for independence that has been denied to them. The SNP currently runs a minority government in the Scottish Parliament and independence isn't even one of their policies any longer - they call for a referendum on that, not independence outright. If the Scots called a referendum and it was passed then the London government wouldn't stop them from forming their own nation. A lot of the SNP votes came because the SNP actually sat down and had a think about policy for once and presented themselves as a viable alternative, taking advantage of the disillusionment with New Labour and showing that people didn't have to "fear" voting for independence but merely a referendum on independence as a policy in the SNP's manifesto. Oh and William Wallace was alive hundreds of years before the union was even dreamt of - a man who rightly defended his nation against the English invaders. He has no bearing on the modern situation - no more than Edward II has.

[Fredi]

Check the history books, WW I and WW II were not caused or declared due to US provocation. True the Japanese attacked us do to our embargo against them, but the war in Europe was going strong by 1941. The lend lease program did produce jobs for this country, but not from our allies as we footed the bill for most of the equipment we shipped to England and Russia. In my opinion the US leadership was very interested in entering the war against Hitler, but the America people were against involvement until that infamous Sunday morning in December of 1941. Now the Gulf War and the Iraq war may have been fought to protect the oil supply, but WW I and WW II were not fought out of greed.

 

I’m not saying the US system of government does not have corruption in it, but calling the US “one of the most corrupted place” is a little out of line. A majority of the citizen are hard working, good people that only care about making the world a better place for themselves and the next generation. I guess every time there is a natural disaster around the world we are giving food, money and clothing just because we hope to steal from these poor people in the future? You can call America a lot of things, but we care about a lot more things than money and petroleum. We care about things like liberty, justice and freedom. We don’t always live up to our high ideals, but at least we give it an effort.

 

You have the right to say it is not glorious, that is a personal opinion. I don’t know if it is or isn’t the most glorious as I’ve only visited Mexico and Australia, but I think it is alright and wouldn’t want to live any other place in the Northern Hemisphere (I did say I went to Australia).

 

As to the original topic, I would say yes if a majority of people of Puerto Rico want independence then by all means they should have it. Although I do agree with a lot of the other posters that I do not think it is a good ideal, but hopefully my understanding of the situation is wrong and it would be a prosperous independence.

 

How would Puerto Rican independence affect tourism from the US? Or does that matter?

 

Imperialism by strict definition is true in this case, but I’d like to know just how is the U.S. restricting the Puerto Rican economy? Is it because we do not allow trade with Cuba? Is it we send over too many tourists?

 

Thank for being the only one to say that if we want independence we should get it. And as far as I know U.S.A help people via the ONU. And I did made the mistake of saying that was one of the most corruption government but It dose have a big number of corrupted politics.

[mimartin]

Thank for being the only one to say that if we want independence we should get it. And as far as I know U.S.A help people via the ONU. And I did made the mistake of saying that was one of the most corruption government but It dose have a big number of corrupted politics.

Well I would not wish any less freedom for you than I have myself. Texas is the only state in the union that can succeed anytime it wants. It is because Texas was once a Republic and when we joined the union it was more for protection from Mexico than to be a state. Statehood worked out pretty well for us, but we have a minority here that wants to be independent too. I’m not one of them; even with all its faults I do love my country almost as much as I love my state.

[Fredi]

Well I would not wish any less freedom for you than I have myself. Texas is the only state in the union that can succeed anytime it wants. It is because Texas was once a Republic and when we joined the union it was more for protection from Mexico than to be a state. Statehood worked out pretty well for us, but we have a minority here that wants to be independent too. I’m not one of them; even with all its faults I do love my country almost as much as I love my state.

 

I under stand.... U.S.A is you're country and that’s why you wouldn’t like that Texas separates from U.S.A.

[GarfieldJL]

I under stand.... U.S.A is you're country and that’s why you wouldn’t like that Texas separates from U.S.A.

 

Uh besides the fact mimartin is proud to be an American, and feels that Texas benefits more as a state as do I and I was born in Texas btw.

[Corinthian]

The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.

[Fredi]

The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.

 

I know.

[mimartin]

The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.

That does not however take away from his desire or his right to dream about independence. Personally I find it hypocritical of myself not to wish him and his fellow county men and women well in their desire to make independence a reality. After all don’t we have American troops fighting and dieing as we debate this for what we call a better way of life and a chance at the freedoms we enjoy in this county. Why should we not desire the same thing for our neighbor? I say at the very least it should be put to a vote to see if a majority of Puerto Ricans feel the same way as The Padawan. Personally I believe it would be a mistake, but I’m not a Puerto Rican and my personal opinions don’t mean anything to their internal affairs.

 

I under stand.... U.S.A is you're country and that’s why you wouldn’t like that Texas separates from U.S.A.

 

True, but not what I meant. I was trying to say that as Texans I have the right, if a majority of Texans came to that decision, to leave the Union. Since I have that freedom I would hope anyone else would have that same opportunity. In other words I would like everyone in the world to have the same freedoms and opportunities than I have been afforded, more even.

[Fredi]

That does not however take away from his desire or his right to dream about independence. Personally I find it hypocritical of myself not to wish him and his fellow county men and women well in their desire to make independence a reality. After all don’t we have American troops fighting and dieing as we debate this for what we call a better way of life and a chance at the freedoms we enjoy in this county. Why should we not desire the same thing for our neighbor? I say at the very least it should be put to a vote to see if a majority of Puerto Ricans feel the same way as The Padawan. Personally I believe it would be a mistake, but I’m not a Puerto Rican and my personal opinions don’t mean anything to their internal affairs.

 

 

 

True, but not what I meant. I was trying to say that as Texans I have the right, if a majority of Texans came to that decision, to leave the Union. Since I have that freedom I would hope anyone else would have that same opportunity. In other words I would like anyone in the world to have the same freedoms and opportunities than I have been afforded, more even.

 

I understand and Thank you.

[John Galt]

The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.

 

Not quite true. Puerto Rico will remain an unicorporated Territory until the Puerto Rican people decide to do elsewise. Personally, I'd like to see Guam, Puerto Rico, and several other US territories become states, but that is up to the people of those territories to decide. On average, 60% of the Puerto Rican people vote to remain a US territory, which is a fairly strong majority.

 

In short, PR is a territory because the people there(or at least most of them, as the process is Democratic) want it to be.

 

Sidenote: Although Puerto Ricans are disproportionately represented in the US military, this is because they are Volunteers, and apparently wish to gain full US citizenship.

[Fredi]

Not quite true. Puerto Rico will remain an unicorporated Territory until the Puerto Rican people decide to do elsewise. Personally, I'd like to see Guam, Puerto Rico, and several other US territories become states, but that is up to the people of those territories to decide. On average, 60% of the Puerto Rican people vote to remain a US territory, which is a fairly strong majority.

 

In short, PR is a territory because the people there(or at least most of them, as the process is Democratic) want it to be.

 

Sidenote: Although Puerto Ricans are disproportionately represented in the US military, this is because they are Volunteers, and apparently wish to gain full US citizenship.

Almost all of the puertorricans join the army for collage and to maintain there family, is not for US citizenship.

[GarfieldJL]

Not quite true. Puerto Rico will remain an unicorporated Territory until the Puerto Rican people decide to do elsewise. Personally, I'd like to see Guam, Puerto Rico, and several other US territories become states, but that is up to the people of those territories to decide. On average, 60% of the Puerto Rican people vote to remain a US territory, which is a fairly strong majority.

So in other words Padawan is in the minority, seriously if 60% of the vote is to remain part of the US.

 

 

Sidenote: Although Puerto Ricans are disproportionately represented in the US military, this is because they are Volunteers, and apparently wish to gain full US citizenship.

 

Technically aren't they already full US citizens they just have to prove residence in a state in order to vote in a Federal Election.

[Fredi]

So in other words Padawan is in the minority, seriously if 60% of the vote is to remain part of the US.

 

But that 60% is as incorporated terretory not as state

[GarfieldJL]

So in other words Padawan is in the minority, seriously if 60% of the vote is to remain part of the US.

 

But that 60% is as incorporated terretory not as state

 

 

Yet you're still part of the United States...

[Fredi]

Yup :S

[SilentScope001]

Yup :S

 

Democracy works without all that pesky democracy.

[lukeiamyourdad]

In all honesty, the United States has been the only owner of colonies in history to have treated them quite well, from the Philippines to the overseas territories of today.

 

If the Puerto Rican people wish to become independant one day, then it'll happen. Currently, it seems the pro-soverignity movement is the minority, but it is possible that independantist ideas get more attention and movement gets more members. These kinds of modern nationalism would be fueled by a strong Puerto Rican economy. If the economy is strong enough to support the country on its own, the people will feel that it is possible for them to separate. Until then, it'll remain a territory.