Rogue Nine Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 FYI, Apply Poison does not synergize well with Barrage, since Barrage removes all preparations prior to you taking the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I think she means the Bows with thew inherent Vampiric power. Thos have about the same function as Poison. The give the enemy an 3 HP drain on hit...so a -3 degen Anyways, I do like the new skill updates. The boost of Healing Signet..phew...finally some room to breath. And the new Avatar of Grenth seems rather good as well. Several over-powered builds that rely on enchantments (enchant-W/Ele's, Mon/Wa's/ etc) are now a little less overpowered. Although...I still have bad feelings about the nerf when they split up the Warrior damage. Before that, Warriors could block any kind of damage, including Ele. Now it's mainly melee And we warriors still get out-tanked by Dervishes because of it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Although...I still have bad feelings about the nerf when they split up the Warrior damage. Before that, Warriors could block any kind of damage, including Ele. Now it's mainly melee And we warriors still get out-tanked by Dervishes because of it.... How did it work earlier? You could block any type of attack with blocking stances, including spells? Haven't played a warrior for very long (roughly 2 weeks), but as it is I have trouble seeing how the term "tank" gets applied to them. My warrior seems to take a lot of damage whenever fighting something that's higher level than her (which is about 75% of the enemies in the game). Don't know how you're supposed to stand your ground and survive when you take routinely 40-80 damage from each blow enemies land on you. :/ Seems to be an awful lot of armor ignoring damage being thrown around in the game as well. Seems like any attack skill that gives a +damage bonus apply that damage unmodified after the base attack damage has been reduced by armor. So whenever an enemy grunt uses Power Attack for example I take at least 40-50 damage from that hit even if they are 10 levels lower than me and their normal attacks barely scratch me. Not to mention the mass of enemies liking to keep Weakness and Blindness conditions on you, or toss nasty hexes whenever you charge at them. Must say that playing a caster is a whole lot easier so far. As a caster you can generally stay useful throughout a fight, and deal with powerful foes by sniping at them from a distance. Still, playing as a melee grunt has been a surprising amount of fun the times when you fight something which you can actually reach, manage to hit and can hurt without getting the damage back tenfold. Just too bad there are so many parts of the game that seems so melee unfriendly that I need someone to babysit me through it to be able to proceed with the plot. Jimbo was looking at all my different characters that I've created in GW (I'm up to 8) and said "So, this is the game for people with multiple personality disorder?" I guess my disorder isn't quite as severe yet. I got an elementalist, a necromancer, a monk, a dervish and a warrior so far. Of those the necromancer has proven most adept at staying alive, though the elementalist can cause some major pain to enemies if I'm with someone who can keep them away from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiganjo Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I too have severe problems getting my melee characters through the games. By the time my war. reaches the caster, she is usually half dead, not to mention that the damage output just doesnt seem to be enough. But well, there is still some people that handle playing warrior pretty well, so I guess it is more a problem of the way some people play the proffession. If it is a pvp match, like a 1on1, I definatly think they are too easy to shut down. Compare that too casters: How many skills actually cause dazed-condition? And if, they usually dont apply it for a long enough time. Not to mention that most caster proffessions have better condition removal. My personal opinion is, or what I like best if warriors do it, is a damage-taker build. Endure pain, dolyak signet, basically everything that can keep em alife and the main point of attention, so that casters can take the part of dealing out some massive damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 My personal opinion is, or what I like best if warriors do it, is a damage-taker build. Endure pain, dolyak signet, basically everything that can keep em alife and the main point of attention, so that casters can take the part of dealing out some massive damage. This is the part I'm having trouble figuring out how to do, so far. How can you make your warrior a damage taker when half the sources of damage ignore armor (attack skills, health degeneration, life steal etc), and you don't have much more health than any other class? How would you for example stay alive long enough to be useful when trying to "tank" dinosaurs, when each of them has an uninterruptable attack skill that does 120 unconditional damage (while healing them for an equal amount), inflicts a deep wound and bleeding? My warrior currently has AL 80 armor upgraded with a Dreadnought insignia on each piece (+10 AL vs elemental damage) and a rune of superior absorption (3 damage reduction vs. physical damage), a shield (with a 20% chance for 5 damage reduction vs. physical damage) and a weapon with an "of Defense" upgrade (+5 AL), and using the "Watch Yourself!" shout (+17 AL for 10 seconds) whenever I'm able. With this setup I have 560 health. As for things like dolyak signet, how effective are these with the current monster AI? Isn't the significant movement speed slowdown a serious liability when most melee enemies like to run around a lot, and has a particular fondness for chasing your casters? (Which is a mixed blessing I guess, I've mostly managed to stay alive so far due to the fact that the enemies spend most their time chasing my heroes around and merrily ignoring me. ) Endure Pain has a pretty short duration, and while I guess it helps keep you alive against massive damage spikes you'll die as soon as it expires unless you get healed up. Another thing that's problematic is the huge number of enemies that have some form of skill that gives them 75% block chance. How can a warrior deal with those, other than hang back and twiddle your thumbs waiting for it to (hopefully) wear off and that they can't keep it up indefinitely? There are a few "cannot be blocked" skills, but since you can't hit the enemies it's hard to build up the adrenaline to use them as often as would be required. Playing as a warrior has made me painfully aware of the vast number of enemies in the game possessing skills that cause conditions and cast nasty hexes. At least a dervish has skills to deal with this (Avatar of Melandru, Avatar of Dwayna). This will certainly take some getting used to, the life of a caster is so much easier. (I do have a well documented tendency to over-think things, but I dislike dying so it's better to over-analyze in advance than die a lot while trying to figure out what works by trial and error. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiganjo Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 For Damage takers, Vengeful was Khanhei works really well, since it is life stealing everytime you get hit. Use Vengeful Weapon for the time it recharges. Other than that you could use Mist Form or Obsidian Flesh, depending on whatever area you are in. And if I am right, there are 14 warrior skills that give you anywhere from 50-100% blocking chance. And you were talking about the dinosaurs,which are mostly assasins or warriors I belief. The raptors (they are sins, right?) could be dealt with using anti-critical strike skills, like dulled weapon or Stone Sheath, since alot of assasin skills depend on critical strikes. Also spells like diversion, which disable spells or skills, and that way break a sins attack chain work nice. Even though in that area Id choose Mist Form, since it makes you completly immune to melee attacks. (combined with 20% enchantment mod and glyph of swiftness it can be kept up most of the time) If you are looking to deal damage, there are a lot of weapon enhancing spells, like Splinter Weapon (my fav.), Vengeful Weapon, any kind of rit weapon spell really, Conjure Frost/Flame/Lighting, Anthem of Flame,... So yeah, I do want to comment that I do not have tested any of these ideas btw. I have seen it here and there, and some are just theories I just came up with, but I guess it might be worth looking into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 stoffe wrote: How did it work earlier? You could block any type of attack with blocking stances, including spells? From the July 2006 update database from GW wiki: Updated Warrior Ascalon and Knight's Armor sets so that the damage reduction applies only when the corresponding location of the body is struck. The damage reduction applies only to physical damage, and the amount of reduced damage was increased from 2 to 3. Updated shields, armors, and runes with damage reduction abilities so that they only reduce physical damage. So...you know all those warrior armors have a base armor. Mostly 80. They then all had a +20 armor bonus atop of it. After the update, it became 80 base armor and +20 vs Physical damage. The Warrior shields also changed, giving only protection from physical damage. Thus, all base magic classes with a +armor skill (Armor of Earth, etc) could boosts themselves to 80 and give all warriors a heavy bash in the face because Warriors aren't/weren't that strong in matters of damage output. Warriors were simply outtanked by...Monk/Warriors and sometimes even Assassins in this time. This is the reason why the insignia of 'Armor +20 when you have 13 Strenght' is so popular. It changes it all back...but at a heavy cost. (If you have one attribute in 13, no other attribute can turn 16. So only primary Strenght W's can use it properly). Also, the Warrior's uber-skill Gladiators Defense (which would at least grant them protection from physical harm) was nerfed down with it. That skill used to be active for about 20 seconds on Tactics 16....now it's 11.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I'm using Rebirth on "Guildwars: Jumping is way overrated" ! Completely forgot about this, but Guild Wars 2 is coming. There's a small wiki with released information, and the end of Eye of the North showed some interesting stuff as well. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2 Thoughts? Returning elements? What do you want to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Aw, they're taking out click to walk. I use that all the time. I'd like to see the target tags to stay more stable. I hate it when I'm trying to target something and the minion tags move around and make my target tags move around. That drives me crazy. I'm trying to figure out what advantage they're going to give Asurans. If there are skills based on levels of sassy arrogance, they'll be shoe-ins. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to what they're going to do with this. I'd love to see what the beta version looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Well, it seems in GW2, you'll also be able to jump! Seriously, I'm really looking forward to GW2. Improved graphics, new races to choose from, higher level cap, and so forth... All to my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 To be honest I'm none too sure about raising the level cap. A higher level cap would only mean more grinding. 20 works fine and it's relatively easy get a character "up to speed" (that is, playable in the more interesting areas). I guess that making the level cap take (significantly) longer to get to is what I object to, not necessarily the number of levels that can be reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Perhaps some people think it's too easy and too quick to get to level 20. I went from 1 to 20 in about 7 days. Not that I'm objecting -- my character is level 20, but by no means would I say she's ready to run out and face anything. Frankly I think the number of levels in GW is kind of irrelevant -- it doesn't mean much... except that you get to be a stick person for April Fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Perhaps some people think it's too easy and too quick to get to level 20. I went from 1 to 20 in about 7 days. Factions, probably? In Prophecies, it takes much longer, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Nah, my first one was prophecies. I'm just a mad woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Nah, my first one was prophecies. I'm just a mad woman. I won't deny. It took me two weeks, at least, to get to 20 with my first character, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Pfft, you obviously weren't playing enough. The first week is when you quit your job to play! .. .. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Perhaps some people think it's too easy and too quick to get to level 20. I went from 1 to 20 in about 7 days. Not that I'm objecting -- my character is level 20, but by no means would I say she's ready to run out and face anything. Frankly I think the number of levels in GW is kind of irrelevant -- it doesn't mean much... except that you get to be a stick person for April Fools. I guess it's similar to the problem with rank (in high-end HoH battles). You've got to have rank before people are willing to take you in their teams, but you don't get rank without being taken... Personally I loved how Factions cut down the time to get to level 20. The people that didn't know how to play by level 20 probably won't know any more by the time they get to level 30, or whatever the new max cap is. That's certainly true, as nearly everyone in Guild Wars is level 20 (and has been for some time) but many of them still have no idea how to play effectively. Essentially I see adding more levels (read:grinding time) as just another thing like rank: you have people that require you to have it, and it doesn't necessarily make you any better at playing the game. I would like it if GW2's level system keeps the short time to the max levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 That's certainly true, as nearly everyone in Guild Wars is level 20 (and has been for some time) but many of them still have no idea how to play effectively. *waves hand frantically* Ooh, me, me! Being level 20 just means you've managed to get xxx amount of XP. Doesn't mean anything more than that, as I can personally attest to. There are still skills to get, armor to save for, finesse and technique to learn... And oftentimes most of the plot to still get through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Essentially I see adding more levels (read:grinding time) as just another thing like rank: you have people that require you to have it, and it doesn't necessarily make you any better at playing the game. I would like it if GW2's level system keeps the short time to the max levels. Yes, you've got a point there. GW's all about choosing the right skills (and using them effectively) and balancing out your character's attributes. I haven't played WoW, but from what I've read, all that time levelling to Level 70 is boring, and then the real exciting stuff begins. GW's system was far better, IMO. Still, I see them compensating the raising of the level bar in some way. It could still work without it getting boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Well, it seems in GW2, you'll also be able to jump! Seriously, I'm really looking forward to GW2. Improved graphics, new races to choose from, higher level cap, and so forth... All to my liking. What has seriously changed GW2 from my "must buy" to "wait and see" list is that they've made the world persistent rather than instanced, in effect making it more like traditional MMOs. This is a huge step back in my opinion, and I can only hope it does not ruin the game. The instanced game world allows you to play at your own pace and style with the people of your own choosing, and things will (mostly) be where you expect them to. It also makes the game blissfully free from the idiots who enjoy ruining the experience for other players by confining meeting them to towns where they can't do very much. If the worldspace is persistent and shared it allows other players to interfere with your games, and you may find creatures/monsters/bosses you are to deal with have already been killed by other players. Or someone might swing in and deal the killing blow to some big tough enemy you've spent a lot of time and resources fighting, denying you the reward. If you fail a quest you can't just rezone, start over and try again. This will lead to lots of pointless waiting and less doing what you want to do when playing. Even if they can't kill you directly other players may aggro huge mobs of enemies and lead them right to you, park them at area entrances, resurrect shrines etc. It also allows even less of the game world reflecting what happens along the main plot, even though there was fairly little of that in GW to begin with. But it sounds like there won't even be a main plot in GW2. Seems to me like they are abandoning their original niche which appealed to people like me who aren't too fond of traditional MMOs, in order to compete more directly with the likes of World of Warcraft by following the standard issue MMO concept more closely. I think this design decision is a big, game-ruining mistake, but I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Missions are supposed to be instanced, but I agree that I don't want to deal with the abject stupidity that I find in town. I usually turn off the local channel in town to avoid listening to the "OMG, let's get our characters to f***!!one11!!one!". If the world is persistent, I'll have to listen to it to make sure some idiot isn't coming up behind me to do something stupid "Oh, there's a n00b!! Let's get the monsters to mob them and watch them die!!" I don't like my game experience ruined repeatedly by 12 year old idiots who have nothing better to do than ruin things for people. Since Anet apparently doesn't like to deal with problems reported to them (I reported a mission bug the other day. The response was--and I'm not kidding--'report it on one of the fansites we watch'), I'm not feeling too sanguine about them taking care of problem children and griefers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Hmm, yeah, that's one of the things that may turn out worse. They're trying to copy WoW in some ways, but they really shouldn't. WoW's not that great, anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Seems to me like they are abandoning their original niche which appealed to people like me who aren't too fond of traditional MMOs, in order to compete more directly with the likes of World of Warcraft by following the standard issue MMO concept more closely. I think this design decision is a big, game-ruining mistake, but I guess time will tell. Agreed. There's a reason I don't play traditional MMO's and it's not because I'm cheap. Well... maybe a little bit... If the world is persistent, I won't be playing it. 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikouen Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Even in "persistent world" MMOs, the only thing that's remotely persistent is the geography, regardless. Kind of a rip-off for those who actually wanted a persistent world when they signed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 What has seriously changed GW2 from my "must buy" to "wait and see" list is that they've made the world persistent rather than instanced, in effect making it more like traditional MMOs. This is a huge step back in my opinion, and I can only hope it does not ruin the game. It is sad to hear that GW is going with more 'traditional' non-instanced play. The instanced game world allows you to play at your own pace and style with the people of your own choosing, and things will (mostly) be where you expect them to. It also makes the game blissfully free from the idiots who enjoy ruining the experience for other players by confining meeting them to towns where they can't do very much. I agree... it is what made me try DDO. (Of course they also had "No grind" on the DDO box but that was utter bollux! ) Missions are supposed to be instanced, but I agree that I don't want to deal with the abject stupidity that I find in town. I usually turn off the local channel in town to avoid listening to the "OMG, let's get our characters to f***!!one11!!one!". Since Anet apparently doesn't like to deal with problems reported to them (I reported a mission bug the other day. The response was--and I'm not kidding--'report it on one of the fansites we watch'), I'm not feeling to sanguine about them taking care of problem children and griefers. Reading this makes me want to hug the DDO servers and GM's (I dislike the GM's mind you)... Wow! Just wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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