The Secret Apprentice, Redeemed?

[Gurges-Ahter]

That is in agreement with my original statement - that I'd wait for additional material in TFU before making judgment, but at this point it seems cowardly. It's possible that the younglings were killed by Vader before Shaak Ti could have possibly gotten to them to help. At this point we don't know. But from what I read on wookieepedia it sounds like she just resigned and let the younglings be executed without offering any type of help whatsoever. Even the youngling that ran out on the landing pad when Bail Organa showed up gave a fight (I think that kid was related to Lucas somehow, if I remember right).

 

Anyway, I didn't mix up any canon, as you suggested. All I said is that it wasn't guaranteed she would die. Perhaps she could have defeated Vader and helped some younglings escape. She obviously knew some way out of there since she was able to escape herself.

[littleman794]

Ztalker said this:

 

 

 

The two I bolded are the ones that look exactly like the one from the 'evolution' toy set. So it means there is at least an Evil and a good ending.

Quote:

1. Apprentice (Bounty Hunter Disguise)

2. Apprentice (Corellian Flight Suit)

3. Apprentice (Father's Robes)

4. Apprentice (Light Training Gear)

5. Apprentice (Training Gear)

6. Apprentice (Raxus Prime Survival Gear)

7. Apprentice (Sith Robes)

8. Apprentice (Jungle Combat Gear)

9. Apprentice (Industrial Explorer Outfit)

10. Ultimate Good

11. Qui-Gon Jinn

12. Obi-Wan Kenobi

13. Anakin Skywalker

14. Darth Vader

15. Luke Skywalker (from Episode IV)

16. Luke Skywalker (from Episode VI)

17. Mace Windu

18. Ultimate Evil

19. Shaak Ti

20. Darth Maul

21. Count Dooku

22. Asajj Ventress

23. Master Rahm Kota

24. Aayla Secura

25. Mara Jade

26. Darth Phobos

27. Maris Brood

[adamqd]

Sweet selection of characters! do we know if Multiplayer is on 360? I'm a bit behind on news just lately

[Blix]

Was it a guarantee she was going to lose? Was she not a renowned and battle-tested Jedi Master? It seems cowardly for a Jedi Master to run away from a fight, especially when it results in the inevitable deaths of all of the younglings. For someone worried about spreading her teaching/knowlege of the force, you would think the lives of the younglings would matter to her enough to try and protect them.

 

She definitely would have been killed, she may have put up a fight though. Anakin was the prophesized "chosen one", and was the reason Palpatine set him up to become his apprentice in the first place, Vader wasn't ever "beaten" until Episode VI by his own son, but even then Anakin left the darkside.

[Gurges-Ahter]

She definitely would have been killed, she may have put up a fight though. Anakin was the prophesized "chosen one", and was the reason Palpatine set him up to become his apprentice in the first place, Vader wasn't ever "beaten" until Episode VI by his own son, but even then Anakin left the darkside.

Knowing what we know as movie-watchers, we know Vader would have defeated Shaak Ti. We also knew Sidious would somehow defeat Mace Windu. Does that mean Windu's character should not have confronted Sidious? Your point is moot. Shaak Ti didn't know Vader would defeat her, and she's a Jedi Master that should not have been afraid to confront him.

 

Again, maybe she didn't even have the chance to, but knowing what we know about it at this point, she should have tried to defeat Vader and help some of the younglings escape as she did.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Sweet selection of characters! do we know if Multiplayer is on 360? I'm a bit behind on news just lately

Bad news for us 360ers. IIRC, there was something about the multiplayer being restricted to the Wii version. At least the Duel Mode is.

[PoiuyWired]

Maybe... just maybe... there would be online multiplayer for 360?

As for PS3, its a console designed for people playing alone with no friends... stupid $ony.

[Henz]

What was she supposed to do otherwise? Die heroically but stupidly?

 

Yes absolutely. Or, she could at least use her fabled cunning to get some kids out with her.

 

We'll see just how the context is before I make any solid judgements of course; but at this point in time I find her a very unlikable character.

[PoiuyWired]

maybe she did...

[TKA-001]

Yes absolutely.

Yes, it's much better to die trying to do something that's impossible rather than to escape and do good later.

[Ztalker]

Plus, do or do not. There is no try.

 

So 'trying' to save the younglings would go against Yoda directly!

[Gurges-Ahter]

Yes, it's much better to die trying to do something that's impossible rather than to escape and do good later.

Do something that's impossible? She escaped - why couldn't she have helped some younglings escape? Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible. That's why I said from the beginning that I'd wait to make judgment until we found out more (hopefully in TFU), but from what we currently know, she acted cowardly.

Plus, do or do not. There is no try.

 

So 'trying' to save the younglings would go against Yoda directly

Then don't try to save the younglings - just save them

[Da_man]

Do something that's impossible? She escaped - why couldn't she have helped some younglings escape? Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.

 

Because if she tried to escape with some of the kids, she'd be leaving others behind to die, and I doubt she could have gotten far with them anyways, before being killed.

[TKA-001]

but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.

I fail to see how you're making any less of a leap by saying that it was possible.

[Gurges-Ahter]

I fail to see how you're making any less of a leap by saying that it was possible.

I suppose that's because you misread and/or misinterpreted my post. I didn't assert it was possible. I said, several times now, that I'd wait for more information to make judgment, but at this point in time based on what we know right now, it appears as if her act was cowardly.

 

Did you fail to notice the first 2/3 of that sentence? In case you did, here it is again:

Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.

[Ztalker]

No, we guess by seeing she's alive.

 

Stronger and better masters died because of order 66. They wiped out an entire temple of Jedi. If she would have fought, I'd say there is a 90% chance of getting killed. And she's alive. So, imo, she hasn't faced the troopers or Vader.

 

Because, let's face it. In a realistic, not-cartoon Star Wars game, you die after an X number of hits. You can't go Cartoon Network style Clone Wars and survive an army of a million troopers, for example.

And since TFU puts it realistically (troopers die with 1 slash) I guess the probability of her fleeing is more likely then fighting.

 

If it was a Clone Wars Cartoon game, or Lego game, it would be the other way around

[TKA-001]

I suppose that's because you misread and/or misinterpreted my post. I didn't assert it was possible. I said, several times now, that I'd wait for more information to make judgment, but at this point in time based on what we know right now, it appears as if her act was cowardly.

 

Did you fail to notice the first 2/3 of that sentence? In case you did, here it is again:

Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that it was possible.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that it was possible.

Incorrect. My entire argument was based on the fact that we don't know, but based on what we do know, it could be possible and she did act like a coward.

 

Do you not agree that it's much more of a leap to assume it was impossible? Probably not, so this conversation is pointless.

[TKA-001]

Incorrect. My entire argument was based on the fact that we don't know

At this point, you switch your position entirely.

 

Do you not agree that it's much more of a leap to assume it was impossible?

Considering the fact that the individual in question is as of now (to my knowledge) the only Jedi whatsoever to escape the attack on the temple, I can't see how it is a leap. There's also the obvious difficulties in finding and escorting any amount of younglings away from the Temple while being attacked by a gigantic army. Then, there's the matter of avoiding the numerous patrols of clone troopers that constantly guard the buildings around, avoiding being obliterated by the gunships and Star Destroyers, that surround the Temple, and so on. I'd consider it an almost insurmountably impressive accomplishment for a single person to escape the attack and then the planet, let alone escorting another person off-planet.

 

Probably not, so this conversation is pointless.

Vae victis.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Vae victis.

I'm glad you feel good about yourself or have some sense of accomplishment, but my comments were more of an indictment to your line or reasoning than a resignation.

 

Perhaps I am lacking information regarding her escape - or maybe you are assuming again - but does anyone know exactly how she escaped? I really don't know, so please, if you do, educate me. Did she hide out and wait for the invasion to end and then slip out? Did she know some secret exit? I would think knowing that information would be fairly important when assessing whether or not she's vindicated from any judgment about her actions (or inactions, rather). Since I don't know that information, it has (in every one of my posts) been my contention that I would reserve judgment until I do know. For whatever reason you seem to ignore that part of my statements. That's why this conversation is pointless, but if it makes you feel some sort of accomplishment or achievement, feel free to continue doing so.

[Serpentine Cougar]

If you wanna go by what Wookieepedia says:

Shaak Ti was selected to safeguard the Jedi Temple while Mace Windu took a group of Jedi Masters to arrest the Supreme Chancellor. Although she possessed considerable fighting prowess, Shaak Ti was chosen to stay at the Jedi Temple to organize the Jedi Temple's defenses. Moments before the Great Jedi Purge, Ti encountered Anakin Skywalker, whom she believed was on his way to the Chancellor's office to help Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin in the arrest. She tried to stop him from leaving, but the young Knight was persistent, saying he was the Chosen One, and it was his duty to be present.

 

As the Jedi Temple's commander and defender,[1] Shaak Ti was present during the fall of the Jedi Temple, during which Darth Vader himself set out to kill the Jedi Master. Knowing she would not be able to defeat Skywalker and the 501st Legion, she fled Coruscant and went into self-imposed exile on Felucia, where fellow Jedi Knights Aayla Secura and Bariss Offee were shot down. Some time later she met Jedi Maris Brood, who was bent on revenge against Vader. Shaak Ti convinced her to go into hiding on the planet Felucia, where she was training the Force sensitive natives for an eventual conflict with Vader and his secret apprentice.

Whether or not you want to call that cowardice or intelligence, I think, depends on how exactly you define the word.

 

The article doesn't give sources, though, unfortunately. The "[1]" up above links to Shaak Ti in the Databank, but the Databank entry hasn't been updated for TFU and still says "Shaak Ti was believed to be killed in the onslaught."

[Gurges-Ahter]

The way I interpret that is she was at the Temple entrance, most likely, and just fled when Vader and the 501st Legion arrived. Perhaps she didn't have the chance to save the younglings then. If that's the case, I don't believe it was cowardice, but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth nonetheless.

 

I wonder why Vader couldn't off Shaak-Ti right there? How did she get past Vader and the 501st Legion?

[Henz]

Yes, it's much better to die trying to do something that's impossible rather than to escape and do good later.

 

Yes it is much better to die trying to save children than to leave them to die for the greater good.

[TKA-001]

Evidently "the greater good" does not actually mean "good" at all.

[Gurges-Ahter]

I was also trying to think of another way to justify Shaak Ti's actions... The Jedi are often/usually loyal to their mandate from the council to a fault. For example, Qui-Gon first refused to try to free Anakin and his mother from slavery during TPM, because they "were not sent to free slaves", even though it was the right thing to do. Obi-Wan also chastises Anakin during AOTC when he over-steps the council's mandate and tells Padme that they will find who is attempting to assassinate her, instead of just protecting her.

 

However, Shaak Ti doesn't even fall into this category, since her mandate was to protect the Jedi Temple.

 

Shaak Ti was selected to safeguard the Jedi Temple while Mace Windu took a group of Jedi Masters to arrest the Supreme Chancellor.