Alpha Protocol - Obsidian's new RPG

[Lantzen]

Yeah, i think it's good Obsidian is trying new things to the genre. Even if some of them haven't work so good at the begining atleast. Like you said about the influence didn't do so much during Kotor2, but they improved it during NWN2, and even more during MotB. So if they have a similar system in AP they maybe have perfect it. Same with the spirit eating thing from MotB, was some serious flaw in it, like changing aligment and the bug you died when you tryed to travel to some places during the wrog time of the day. But like the influence system it will probaly be improved if they continue doing similar things.

 

And i like the thing they doing with the dialougs, remind me of Fahrenheit and that worked pretty good. The dialougs feelt more alive when they just keept on talking, and if you didnt choose in like 3-5 seconds the game auto choose, and usaly it was the choise that gave most info. But the thing with it's just three diffrent dialougs path you can have, even if they are very diffrent could get a little boring in the long run. Think that it can feels like you dont have any controll over the conversation with just three diffrent path, maybe if they would have subpaths under the main diffrent dialougs path it would feel more like you have controll over the conversation. But since we haven't see how the system work it's to early to say anything about it

[stoffe]

You could do that if you wanted to but I gather that the idea behind is to force the player to think about what they're saying rather than just clicking on choices randomly.

 

Though I got the impression you couldn't pick what you are saying, just the tone it is said, with emotion-driven responses instead of canned lines?

 

And if, like Achilles said, it doesn't matter what you click since no path is better than the other, it would be a somewhat cosmetic choice anyway since you'd advance in the game either way.

 

Unless the game has some kind of log that records conversations you've had for later playback this will also make it harder for the player to remember things the NPC might have told them. Not everyone plays through games in one sitting. If you only play for a few hours each weekend it may be unreasonable for the game to expect you to remember everything you've been told a week ago.

 

NWN2, ever in possession of both brilliance and absolute dirt, is guilty of this. You disagree with someone, argue with them, but the quest continues on unabated by anything you say. Having a shouting match with Lord Nasher doesn't have any effect on your standing with him, it's purely cosmetic.

 

Not entirely. If you consequently did piss off Lord Nasher whenever given the opportunity you will not be given the offer to join the Neverwinter Nine in the last act. So it's not entirely without consequence.

[Pavlos]

And if, like Achilles said, it doesn't matter what you click since no path is better than the other, it would be a somewhat cosmetic choice anyway since you'd advance in the game either way.

They've said that all outcomes will be rewarded equally, which is something that I'm not thrilled with. But perhaps I'm just old fashioned and expect a dedicated player (one who pumps all of his experience points into dialogue skills and who takes the time to listen and probe what an NPC is saying) to get rewarded more than someone who decides to pick up a gun and start shooting everything in sight.

 

But while that is true, 'equally' does not necessarily mean the same.

 

As always, a generic Dungeons and Dragons illustration is the best way forward: If I saved Old Mother Eppis from the nasty thugs by killing them, she may give me her son's armour of god-like powah. If I helped the nasty thugs then they may give me a cut of the 500 gold pieces she manages to have stashed away on her person - an infinite bag of holding is likely responsible for this - which comes to the same value as the armour. You advance the game and get an equal rewards but you do so in different ways and, as such, get different results.

 

And I would hope that the variation comes not just in rewards and the manner in which you progress the plot but also in the actual plot points. No point in having a plot branching off if it's only going to last for that one quest and have no bearing on the progression of the rest of the story.

 

That's how I interpreted 'equally', anyway. Of course it could be that my interpretation is wrong and yours is right, in which case the choice would be purely cosmetic. In which case, I would promptly fly to California and throw rocks at Obsidian's building before visiting Black Isle's grave and weeping over it.

 

Although I criticized the game heavily, I'm expecting something good out of this one. But nowhere as revolutionary.

I would hardly call Mass Effect revolutionary but, then, very few games are. Not that shattering the wheel and redesigning it is the be all and end all of things. I'm quite happy with my old wheel only with speed flaps or something...

[Corinthian]

Well, this is Obsidian's big chance to actually make a good impression on me. I'll forgive their massive screwups with NWN2's OC (I should have Mask of the Betrayer sometime within the next two weeks, incidentally, so you can stop pestering me) and KotoR 2 if they manage to do this properly, attributing their previous failures to having to work with someone else's crap.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I would hardly call Mass Effect revolutionary but, then, very few games are. Not that shattering the wheel and redesigning it is the be all and end all of things. I'm quite happy with my old wheel only with speed flaps or something...

Pardon me, I didn't expressed myself clearly. I meant "nowhere as revolutionary as Obsidian claims it to be".

 

I mean, the part where it says the game will force you to focus on one weapon or ability, thus forbidding you from becoming a jack-of-all-trades. How's that anything near as new?

 

Well, this is Obsidian's big chance to actually make a good impression on me.

Us both.

 

Although the "spy framed by it's own kin" plot makes a lot of movie titles flash on my head.

[Corinthian]

I'm doing my best to ignore everything they're saying until after the game has been released, after which I'll find a reputable news source (So not IGN) and take a look-see. Of course, I don't think it really matters whether I get it or not because one of my brothers almost certainly will, and I can just mooch off them.

[mimartin]

I would hardly call Mass Effect revolutionary but, then, very few games are. Not that shattering the wheel and redesigning it is the be all and end all of things. I'm quite happy with my old wheel only with speed flaps or something...

I’d agree Mass Effect was not revolutionary, but it BioWare did take many different recent game innovations and combine them in one package. However, it was nothing really new and certainly nothing like they advertised in the prerelease hype. Despite its flaws and, as pointed out in this thread, BioWare’s writing (which was fairly good in Mass Effect despite what someone that has not played the game may say ), it is a very good game and on top my favorites list. If the entire game had lived up to the quality and the moral dilemma of the downloadable content, I would say it was revolutionary. I am holding off complete judgment until the PC version is released, I want to see what the control of your NPC companions is like on the PC, as it was nonexistence on the 360 version.

 

Obsidian seems to have fallen into the BioWare media model by publicizing the game while it is still in early development. I hope it works out for them and does not end up disappointing the consumer, like many Mass Effect players were, that gets a game considerably different from the game that was hyped more than a year prior to its release. I do not plan to follow the hype and ending up disappointed that a feature was not included as I was disappointed with the released dialogue options and NPC control in Mass Effect.

[Pavlos]

Pardon me, I didn't expressed myself clearly. I meant "nowhere as revolutionary as Obsidian claims it to be".

 

I mean, the part where it says the game will force you to focus on one weapon or ability, thus forbidding you from becoming a jack-of-all-trades. How's that anything near as new?

Sorry about the misunderstanding .

 

Anyway, it's not revolutionary at all, I agree. But it's refreshing to see a developer advertising a game feature such as not being able to become Master of the Universe™. Provided the combat is well-balanced then it'll likely make us think a little more about which skills we choose to level up so as not to gimp our characters.

 

Although the "spy framed by it's own kin" plot makes a lot of movie titles flash on my head.

I don't think the originality of the premise is what's important, to be honest. It's what you do with it, what your themes and techniques are that make it interesting. Some of the greatest works of literature just steal other people's stories.

 

Someone like Shakespeare doesn't remain popular today because his plots were original - A Midsummer Night's Dream just rips off Ovid, Hamlet is a rehash of generic revenge tragedy (man kills man, man gets revenge on man, both men die) and half of his plays are historical - but because of his unique style, his characters - like Hamlet and Iago - and the comment on society and life he was attempting to give.

 

Milton ripped off the book of Genesis in Paradise Lost but the reason why that epic is interesting - if not enjoyable... Milton seems more to be respected than loved - is because he takes Satan and makes him a sympathetic figure and causes you to question if the Christian god, as portrayed in Genesis, is really all that great.

 

Yes I have been reading a lot of renaissance literature lately. >_>

 

I'll shut up now.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Obsidian seems to have fallen into the BioWare media model by publicizing the game while it is still in early development. I hope it works out for them and does not end up disappointing the consumer, like many Mass Effect players were, that gets a game considerably different from the game that was hyped more than a year prior to its release.

I did read myslef here.

But it's refreshing to see a developer advertising a game feature such as not being able to become Master of the Universe™. Provided the combat is well-balanced then it'll likely make us think a little more about which skills we choose to level up so as not to gimp our characters.

Still, that is not new at all. Almost every RPG with some depth of costumization has such a feature. If we do compare that to K2, however, that's a vast improvement, seeing how he/she became a killing machine after level ten or so.

[Lantzen]

http://www.worthplaying.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2209

[Da_man]

Still, that is not new at all. Almost every RPG with some depth of costumization has such a feature. If we do compare that to K2, however, that's a vast improvement, seeing how he/she became a killing machine after level ten or so.

Agreed. The leveling system is not too good in either KoToR. What K2 needs is a leveling system like in Oblivion, where at level one you fight a rat, but at level 23, you fight a minotaur.

 

To get back on topic, I'm really looking forward to Alpha Protocol. It seems like a seriuosly cool game from the GameInformer issue.

[Lantzen]

Are you kidding me ? Oblivion have the worse level system ever, later when you are on level 40 you still figth the same minotaur with +x hp or bandit with +x hp and glass weapons and armour

[Corinthian]

No kidding. Oblivion's leveling system was wretched, one of the worst gameplay mechanics I have ever seen. A game should not get harder as the player character grows in power, it's supposed to get easier.

[Lantzen]

I like the way Kotor handle it, when you are level20 you are suppose to be powerful, if the enemy was at the same strength what the deal with you being the best ? And now i can't speak for evryone, but Malak was pretty hard for me the first time i meet him, and for my friend too. But on the rerun when i know how to build the characther better he wasn't such a problem. When i play now i even have the hardcore mod that Shem made, plus a normal hardcore mod and now he is a opponent that is funny to fight

 

In K2 i can agree that the game is pretty easy all the way thourgh, but thats probaly because you know how to build the characther from the begining, and that you didn't know how to do in K1 the first time

 

 

But i won't write about this anymore since we getting off-topic

[Da_man]

Are you kidding me ? Oblivion have the worse level system ever, later when you are on level 40 you still figth the same minotaur with +x hp or bandit with +x hp and glass weapons and armour

 

But you have to thibnk of the time spent getting to level 40. I only just got to level 23, and I've been playing the game on and off for 6 months. By that time, I was bored cuz I had done everything in the game. The system works, until you get into the higher levels.

[Lantzen]

I was 40 after around 100h, and that's how much i played the game in total. And it started to brake way before 40 IMO. Even around level 23 many of the enemys is the same, with just +x hp and the bandits too, don't think they got glass armour yet but they probaly have some very expensive items at that point. Think the only enemys that you didnt notice the +hp on was the rats and crabs

 

And doh, i said i didn't want to continue the discusion, and yet here i am again ^^

[Pavlos]

Source

 

Obsidian's Matthew Rorie has posted twelve new screenshots over on the developer's boards.

 

Don't be expecting any huge revelations from these shots; they're basically more of the same: Thorton shooting people and Thorton standing around. Still, it's nice to see more of the locations we'll be exploring and take a closer look at Obsidian's art direction which, to be honest, seems very... clean.

 

The areas look as though they've just been taken out of their box and assembled by a proud new owner who intends to polish them every weekend.

[Lantzen]

Since when did it become a MMO ? ^^

http://www.totallyps3.com/gameinfo.php?gameid=231&details=news&newsid=473

 

But in the case, that they changed it from a RPG to a MMO in like one week i lost all interest in the game.

[Pavlos]

Source

 

Next Generation has posted a preview of Alpha Protocol from the magazine Edge up on the web for all to see.

 

There’s no playing back through dialogue trees to get a better outcome. (Avoiding the potential for frustration this may cause, there is no wrong answer in most circumstances, just different consequences and different rewards.)

 

Alpha Protocol seems to be a game of contradictions. On the one hand the choices, consequences, and dialogue decisions that actually affect how a character speaks to you all make my little RPG-nerd heart flutter. On the other, though, we have some dubious gameplay decisions (infinite ammo?), combat that seems to be lifted from Mass Effect and the parallels in gameplay between this game and BioWare's latest will probably end up hurting Obsidian in the end. People will play Alpha Protocol and then just paint it as "Mass Effect, only not as good."

 

I hope for the plot but not for the gameplay; then again, Obsidian's strong point has never been in gameplay, anyway. Hacking through legions of orcs in Old Owl Well, anyone?

[mur'phon]

Well, having different "propper" consequences should be enough to make it better than ME, at least in my book. Borowing the gameplay from ME is also a good idea imho, in too many rpg's combat is a chore for me, but in ME (and a few others like VtMB, IWD2, JE) it's fun. If Obsidian is unable to make combat fun, why not borrow from someone who can?

[Achilles]

Source

 

Next Generation has posted a preview of Alpha Protocol from the magazine Edge up on the web for all to see.

Thanks for the links Pavlos. I thought that this was a pretty interesting statement:

“I’ll probably be found dead a week later for saying this, but I felt that KOTOR2 was perhaps a C+ because it wasn’t finished,” says Avellone. “That’s my fault. It was an ambitious project but that doesn’t excuse the fact that you should work within the resources that you have. Things got better with Neverwinter 2, but I do not consider it to be an A product. More of a B-. Part of the issue is you’re still trying to form a team. But eventually everybody understands how everybody works, and the pipelines get more finalized and you get a lot more support. The expansion pack for Neverwinter 2 was an A-, and I have very high expectations for the future – we’re just going to get better.”

If MotB was an A-, then I'm eager to see what an A+ looks like.

[Pavlos]

Source

 

Hooked Gamers has posted a preview of Alpha Protocol. There's nothing new here but it's always worth a read.

 

The initial anticipated release date is February 2009. However, the Obsidian designers are notorious for pushing back release dates "until the game is actually done."

Yes, historically, Obsidian's problem has not be releasing too early at all... it's been pushing back the release date. That's why KotOR II was so complete and polished what with that huge development cycle of thirteen months.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Much of the game will involve dialogue trees. Within any given dialogue, the player may decide to model his approach to emulate the J.B. of his choice: Jack Bauer (aggressive), James Bond (suave) or Jason Bourne (professional). It should be noted that Obsidian pointedly does NOT use these labels. But if it “walks like a duck and talks like a duck…

Looking way too much as in Mass Effect. I hope there's innovation on the story, then.

 

However, you had better get the conversation right the first time, because you will NOT be able to re–initiate any given dialogue tree as you can in many other games.

Which sounds like an incredibly silly decision. You want the game to look more realistic by not letting you have the same conversation again and again? Fine, then just don't talk to them about it anymore but don't cut that option for me. Besides, what keeps the player from reloading and trying another option on the dialogue?

[mur'phon]

Nothing, unless they do it The Witcher style, which i hope (so you saved some elfs, 6 hours later, you'll know if that was a good idea).

[Achilles]

Fine, then just don't talk to them about it anymore but don't cut that option for me. Besides, what keeps the player from reloading and trying another option on the dialogue?

I wonder if they plan on disabling when (or where) one can save (ala the GTAs, The Witcher, etc).