Evolution

[jonathan7]

M@RS - answer THIS question;

 

I love how you didn't answer my question. Let me pose it yet again...

 

a) Why do all the most brilliant minds today thing the earth is a lot older than 6,000 years old?

b) So the said brilliant minds think the earth is very old; If God gives someone a brilliant mind, and they note from the evidence that the world is a lot older than 6,000 years old - and so rule out God, because the Bible apparently indicates the earth is 6,000 years old - is it fair of God to damn them, for using an ability he gave them?

 

@ Jonathan7 how can you be a christian, I assume that you read the Bible, which in the first verse says

 

*sigh* You really are trying my signature now....

 

Ever heard of a guy called C.S. Lewis - because he believed in an old earth...

 

Suffice to say this, I am rather familiar with the Bible - do you have to do any seminars or talks on it?

 

Genesis is written as a Hebrew poem; the main point to take is that the Sun, moon, earth and animals are created by God, and therefore should not be worshipped. There are quite a few problems with Genesis if you take it literally, specifically why are there two different accounts of the creation of man?

 

Anyways

 

Not that the Big Bang occurred.

 

Oh, oh I can play this game!

 

Please point me to the part of the Bible that states the earth is 6,000 years old.

 

An oh look here's a Christian who believes in an old earth; http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer and another; http://www.reasons.org/about/staff/ross.shtml and another; http://www.rzim.org/

 

Also, jonathan7 it's called faith, you know one of the major points of Christianity...

 

Charles Larson produced a simply wonderful quote; "While spiritual insight or faith is one valid measure in spiritual matters, true spiritual insight never directly contradicts valid intellectual insight or facts in the physical world. Faith may go beyond reason, but does not go against it. It never blatantly contradicts the facts which we perceive with our God-given common sense. Faith and fact point in a single direction. When they do not, something is seriously wrong…A willingness to accept facts as they exist, and to learn to use them to test the views one holds rather than falling back on subjective experience or rationalizations, is the first step towards discovering genuine truth."

 

Proverbs 21:24; "The proud and arrogant man-"Mocker" is his name; he behaves with overweening pride".

 

Your behaviour to me would seem to indicate you have missed most of the Bible's central points - is the above an appropriate way to address a spiritual elder?

 

Now with the whole not answering questions, I don't know everything, I can't answer every question (it's called faith in the Bible) and it's only me, I'm the only one, as of right now that's able to try and debate, I'm not as smart as most of you. I'm no debater, you all know that

 

What I see, is someone antagonising a whole load of atheists (who in all likely hood already have a bad view of Christianity), quite a few are my friends. And your winding them up with a bunch of pseudo-science and failing to even mention Jesus, but instead going on about something which has no relevance to the saving of souls.

 

I've said this several times, but I'll say it again. It's takes faith, you need faith to believe in evolution too.

 

No, really trust me, I have faith in Jesus, I don't have faith in evolution - ergo your entire argument just collapsed.

 

Were any of you there to witness the Big Bang?

 

Did you think this through before you typed it?...

 

Were you there to witness it? Indeed by this logic I don't believe that your great gran mother existed as none of us where there to witness it.

 

Was anything there?

 

How do you know - you weren't there!

 

No, now were did everything that makes up the planets, stars, galaxies, ect.? How is it possible for all of the stuff in the universe to be squished into a smal dot, where did the pressure come from to squish it all together? Now in the textbooks, it says that the dot was spinning and it exploded, now if that's true than wouldn't everything be spinning the same direction?

 

Your grasp of science is so poor its untrue, and its clear you have absolutely no understanding what so ever of the big bang theory.

 

Why isn't that true? Several things spin backwards. What about the sun? If the Earth is billions of years old, than why isn't the Sun bigger? That's all I have to say right about now...

 

Frankly; your talking out of your behind! Silence - stop talking in this subject and winding everyone up, as its clear you are only hear to beat people over the head with your pseudo-science poo, you aren't taking on board anything we say, and expect us to accept your ridiculously poor reasoning.

 

Consider this before you reply -

 

Proverbs 10:8; "The wise in heart accept commands, but a chattering fool comes to ruin"

 

Proverbs 12:15; "The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.."

 

My advice is this - stop being a bad witness to the gospel and winding up a great many people, its clear you have no intention of doing any thinking with regards this thread, so just stop posting for the benefit of everyone in thread, and stop taking the thread wildly off-topic.

[Emperor Devon]

The same goes for you, Devon. If you believe all Christians are as you described then I'd say you're willfully blind.

 

Never said all of them were.

 

It's takes faith, you need faith to believe in evolution too.

 

Faith:

 

2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

 

I've got no faith whatsoever in evolution. That's the nice thing about science, it doesn't ask us for any.

[M@RS]

M@RS - answer THIS question;

 

I love how you didn't answer my question. Let me pose it yet again...

 

a) Why do all the most brilliant minds today thing the earth is a lot older than 6,000 years old?

b) So the said brilliant minds think the earth is very old; If God gives someone a brilliant mind, and they note from the evidence that the world is a lot older than 6,000 years old - and so rule out God, because the Bible apparently indicates the earth is 6,000 years old - is it fair of God to damn them, for using an ability he gave them?

 

A) Yes, you're right, but, the most brilliant minds used to believe that the Earth was flat, and that a bigger object fell faster than a smaller object, and that you didn't need to wash your hands before going on to the next patient in a hospital. The majority can be wrong.

B)That's touchy ground, I'm not going to answer that for fear of answering it wrong

[Inyri]

A) Yes, you're right, but, the most brilliant minds used to believe that the Earth was flat, and that a bigger object fell faster than a smaller object, and that you didn't need to wash your hands before going on to the next patient in a hospital. The majority can be wrong. Any questions?

You just proved that facts win the day. Which just shows that you're being as ignorant as those who still believed the Earth was flat after indisputable proof that it wasn't.

[Achilles]

Yes, of course, because somehow along the way the idea of sharing peace and love with our fellow humans means we're just being pushy.

I think your argument makes the mistake of assuming that religion is the only way to do that. Even if it doesn't make that mistake and instead makes the other mistake of assuming that it's the best, or even "a very good", way of doing that, it's still wrong.

 

If you want to spread peace and love, spread peace and love. No need to dress it up in a bunch of superstitious wishful thinking to get the job done.

[El Sitherino]

No need to dress it up in a bunch of superstitious wishful thinking to get the job done.

 

You're mistaking a religion for the religious.

[Achilles]

Religion = superstitious wishful thinking.

"the religious" = those that engage in it.

 

No need for the latter to participate in the former to promote peace and love. Evidence.

[M@RS]

Religion = superstitious wishful thinking.

"the religious" = those that engage in it.

 

No need for the latter to participate in the former to promote peace and love. Evidence.

 

I'm not religious, I don't participate in religion, I participate in a friendship with Jesus Christ, the person who died for my sins for me, and you

[El Sitherino]

I'm not religious I participate in a friendship with Jesus Christ

 

Either you're religious or you're involved in some sick child-rapers game.

[Jae Onasi]

I think your argument makes the mistake of assuming that religion is the only way to do that. Even if it doesn't make that mistake and instead makes the other mistake of assuming that it's the best, or even "a very good", way of doing that, it's still wrong.

Neither is the case, though I think Christianity's paradigm of missionary outreach to bring food, medical supplies, etc. to people that need it works pretty well. I'm pointing out to the poster above that just because Christians are religious, it doesn't mean we're just trying to cram religion down everyone's throat. Some of us actually, shockingly, try to do something positive with our religion.

 

However, I think I've taken this off-topic so it's probably best if this thread gets back to the subject at hand.

[El Sitherino]

Religion = superstitious wishful thinking.

[/Quote]

Or is it a bunch of stories that metaphorically speak words of wisdom in regards to a lifestyle. Moral guidance you could say.

 

Religion isn't all evil. It's people who turn it to that when they let their hatreds dictate their interpretation of a story.

 

I think what you're really trying to say is Christianity is superstitious wishful thinking. But you can't because that would be directed negativity and that would blow the whole under the radar jab you had going there.

 

No need for the latter to participate in the former to promote peace and love. Evidence.

I never said one had to be religious to not be a douchebag. In fact I consistently say the opposite.

[Achilles]

Or is it a bunch of stories that metaphorically speak words of wisdom in regards to a lifestyle. Moral guidance you could say.

There certainly is that component to it. But along the same lines of my earlier point, there are lots of ways to do that too.

 

Religion isn't all evil. It's people who turn it to that when they let their hatreds dictate their interpretation of a story.

Religion doesn't have to be evil to qualify for "superstitious wishful thinking" status. "Good" or "evil" have absolutely nothing to do with superstition or wishful thinking.

 

I think what you're really trying to say is Christianity is superstitious wishful thinking. But you can't because that would be directed negativity and that would blow the whole under the radar jab you had going there.

I am absolutely saying that (and I'm not just limiting it to christianity either). In fact, I thought I did say that.

 

If my comment came across as an attempt to be "under the radar", I think I'll need to reassess what passes for subtlety around here.

 

I never said one had to be religious to not be a douchebag. In fact I consistently say the opposite.

I'm glad we're in agreement then

[Inyri]

b) So the said brilliant minds think the earth is very old; If God gives someone a brilliant mind, and they note from the evidence that the world is a lot older than 6,000 years old - and so rule out God, because the Bible apparently indicates the earth is 6,000 years old - is it fair of God to damn them, for using an ability he gave them?

B)That's touchy ground, I'm not going to answer that for fear of answering it wrong

There's no wrong answer to an opinion question. I'm curious as to what your answer would be as well. You have an opinion on everything else.

[M@RS]

Yes it is fair to damn them to hell, because he loved us so much he gave us the choice, he's not a tyrant who makes you think what he wants them to think. He gave us the choice.

[Inyri]

So then God sets us up to fail? I think even the Old Testament version of God isn't quite that... mean. It doesn't make sense that God would give us "gifts" and then expect us not to use them. Or worse, that he would punish us for using what he gave us.

 

In any case there's fairly indisputable proof that the world is older than 6000 years. So no need for anyone to be damned.

[Nedak]

"But if Jesus knew he'd be alive again in three days he wasn't really making the sacrifice prophesied in the scriptures. Whereas Judas goes down in history as the biggest bastard ever, and then kills himself, thus damning himself to hell.

So he made the real sacrifice, and is therefore the true Christ.

Thing is with Judas, Jesus knew all along he'd do it. Which means there's fate.

Which makes god a douche for holding us responsible for events he set in place at creation."

 

God? …..Is that it..?

…God!?

 

Well, I’ll tell ya… let me give you a little inside information about “god”:

God likes to watch.

He’s a prankster.

Think about it :

He gives man instincts…

He gives you this extraordinary gift…

And then what does he do..? I swear, for his own amusement… his own private cosmic gag reel…

He sets the rules in opposition. It’s the goof of all time:

Look… but don’t touch…

Touch… but don’t taste…

Taste… but don’t swallow…

Ha ha ha!

And while you’re jumping from one foot to the next, what is he doing?

He’s laughing his sick ******* *** off..!

He’s a tight ***..!

He’s a SADIST..!

He’s an absentee landlord..!

Worship *THAT* !?!…

NEVER!

[M@RS]

"But if Jesus knew he'd be alive again in three days he wasn't really making the sacrifice prophesied in the scriptures. Whereas Judas goes down in history as the biggest bastard ever, and then kills himself, thus damning himself to hell.

So he made the real sacrifice, and is therefore the true Christ.

Thing is with Judas, Jesus knew all along he'd do it. Which means there's fate.

Which makes god a douche for holding us responsible for events he set in place at creation."

 

Nope, he has set events but not how you think, he gives us a choice, do what we want, and he doesn't know what you'll do, or you can follow God's plan for your life. Which is about serving him and having a life filled with Joy, Happiness, but not easy, it's not always easy to serve God. Jesus knew Judas would turn him in, he had to, to make the prophesy true, but, he didn't have to hang himself, he could've asked for forgiveness and become a great apostle but he did things the way he wanted and went to hell because of that. If Judas was the savior, then he would've have died for us, no he died for his guilt. Jesus died for us, now how many witnesses do you need to believe that Jesus did raise from the dead?

[Inyri]

Name me one person alive today that saw Jesus raised from the dead.

 

I'm Christian, but I don't say something is a fact if it isn't. Jesus being raised from the dead is not a fact, I simply have faith that it happened. But I admit it may not have, because I'm not so full of myself to think that I must be right.

[M@RS]

So then God sets us up to fail? I think even the Old Testament version of God isn't quite that... mean. It doesn't make sense that God would give us "gifts" and then expect us not to use them. Or worse, that he would punish us for using what he gave us.

 

In any case there's fairly indisputable proof that the world is older than 6000 years. So no need for anyone to be damned.

 

No, he gave us his gifts to use for him, brilliant people are made by God to show that God does indeed exist and that a literal six day creation is true. Now say you had kids, let's just say that, now say you gave two of your kids an order to clean their rooms, one does it immediately and the other goes to their room and doesn't clean it, now to the kid who obeyed you, you give them something they like, the other is punished, now you gave them the choice to do whatever they wanted. Also, let's say that you built the house that you live in. The kid who was punished decides, that since you're so "unfair" You don't exist, and then further decides that the house evolved over a long period of time from a splinter. Do you see how weird that is, that's just how humanity acts today, just on a larger scale.

[M@RS]

Name me one person alive today that saw Jesus raised from the dead.

 

I'm Christian, but I don't say something is a fact if it isn't. Jesus being raised from the dead is not a fact, I simply have faith that it happened. But I admit it may not have, because I'm not so full of myself to think that I must be right.

 

That's impossible for me to name one person alive today that saw Jesus raised from the dead. But, there are 500 different historical accounts saying that they all saw Jesus alive. All of them being people with a lot of power known for telling facts. Does that work for you? It's also in the Bible. And, just have faith this is between heaven and hell, don't give up, and trust me it's been hard reading this thread, but if you just hang in there when you get to heaven you get to here God, the creator of everything tell you "Well done good and faithful servant!" I'd can't wait, and in the Bible it talks about how the more people dislike you for your faith the bigger your reward will be in heaven, just hang in, and I'll see you there

[Inyri]

That is the silliest analogy I've ever heard. Next time make it applicable.

 

Also next time you're in the library pick up the book "Inherit the Wind". I think you'll find it very enlightening.

[Nedak]

it's not always easy to serve God.

Yeah, it's not easy either for the men in the native tribes in Africa, whom have never heard of god. They're going to burn in hell according to your religion because they are "ill-informed".

 

Jesus died for us, now how many witnesses do you need to believe that Jesus did raise from the dead?

 

There are thousands of people who claim to see Nessy.

 

Doesn't mean it's real.

 

Also, each witness didn't record that it happened. The Bible says there were witnesses.. Doesn't mean there WERE witnesses.

As far as I know.

 

EDIT: Where are these acclaimed "historical" accounts?

[Inyri]

Yeah, it's not easy either for the men in the native tribes in Africa, whom have never heard of god. They're going to burn in hell according to your religion because they are "ill-informed".

Slow down there. Not all Christian denominations believe that. It's a fairly Catholic view, actually, as is the belief that the souls of infants that die before baptism go to purgatory. Many protestant denominations don't believe these things because they're fairly inhumane.

[Nedak]

Slow down there. Not all Christian denominations believe that. It's a fairly Catholic view, actually, as is the belief that the souls of infants that die before baptism go to purgatory. Many protestant denominations don't believe these things because they're fairly inhumane.

 

I was actually watching a debate between Christians and Atheists (it was on CNN or something. On the christian side it was Kirk Cameron and the dude he preaches with), and they said different.

 

I have also debated with many other people and none disagreed.

[M@RS]

Here's a passage from Romans 2

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

In layman's terms that means, if they obey his commandments without really knowing why, then they're going to heaven, so if an African tribe never heard of God but obeyed his word because of their conscience then they're going to heaven, does that sound like a merciful God to you?