National pride / Patriotism

[Darth_Yuthura]

I think national pride could be a good thing, but only when is drives change and improvement. The issue I have is that Americans tend to think that having an SUV, believing we're above the rest of the world, and worshiping celebrities is something to be proud of.

 

The US has been the greatest economic power in the world for a long time, but now we are a consumer nation. Almost everything manufactured comes from other nations... what does the US export to other nations? Our national pride is one of the causes of the US becoming an empire. Within our boarders, we live comfortably off the suffering of those outside the US.

[Rev7]

I am vaguely reminded of Twitch.

They must be related somehow. :/

 

--

 

Hmmm, good question. I too am not a real big fan on nationalism. I really don't know what to say, I do celebrate national holidays and what-not, but I don't agree with everything that goes on in my country. The government, laws, ect, but I am still proud to be an American. Its just....ya....I am proud to say that I am an American, most of the time. That is really the only way that I could put it.

 

EDIT:

I think national pride could be a good thing, but only when is drives change and improvement. The issue I have is that Americans tend to think that having an SUV, believing we're above the rest of the world, and worshiping celebrities is something to be proud of.

I agree, and if it were like that (or hopefully becomes like that) I would be even more proud to say that I am an American. "I'm proud to be an American because we created an clean, safe, affordable alternate fuel (energy)!" That would be awesome!

The US has been the greatest economic power in the world for a long time, but now we are a consumer nation. Almost everything manufactured comes from other nations... what does the US export to other nations? Our national pride is one of the causes of the US becoming an empire. Within our boarders, we live comfortably off the suffering of those outside the US.

Good question. I tried googling it and I came up with "There are automobiles, computers, airplanes, and agricultural products." And even "Democracy". So my guess would be, not a whole lot. But yes, we do just sit back and let other countries do the work for us. I think that we should become more of an independant nation, and support ourselves more, and not have to rely on others so much. I fear that type of change would be a little hard though. :/

 

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[Darth_Yuthura]

The issue with being independent from the rest of the world is that it's generally cheaper to import from elsewhere than manufacture it ourselves. American workers are more expensive than foreign workers. The economy revolves around the most efficient means of making profit with the least effort... that's what will destroy us.

 

We could become resource-independent, but it would involve paying more for a resource to produce within the US. Only when it becomes too expensive to import would we start making it ourselves. For now, it's cheaper to buy most of the resources we demand... that won't last forever.

[Rev7]

The issue with being independent from the rest of the world is that it's generally cheaper to import from elsewhere than manufacture it ourselves. American workers are more expensive than foreign workers. The economy revolves around the most efficient means of making profit with the least effort... that's what will destroy us.

 

We could become resource-independent, but it would involve paying more for a resource to produce within the US. Only when it becomes too expensive to import would we start making it ourselves. For now, it's cheaper to buy most of the resources we demand... that won't last forever.

Everything revolves around money and profit. It definately won't last forever. It seems like there are just so many catches involved with nearly everything. If we try to do one thing, something else happens. Ugh.

[Ray Jones]

I agree, and if it were like that (or hopefully becomes like that) I would be even more proud to say that I am an American. "I'm proud to be an American because we created an clean, safe, affordable alternate fuel (energy)!" That would be awesome!

How about "I'm proud to be human because we created an clean, safe, affordable alternate fuel (energy)" instead?

[Darth_Yuthura]

Why should we be proud to be humans? We are a disease upon this planet and will end up killing ourselves because we disrupt the systems we depend on to survive. The very thing that separates us from animals will also be what brings about our demise.

[Totenkopf]

Why should we be proud to be humans? We are a disease upon this planet and will end up killing ourselves because we disrupt the systems we depend on to survive. The very thing that separates us from animals will also be what brings about our demise.

 

Or our salvation.

[Ray Jones]

Why should we be proud to be humans?

Wrong context, mind you. My point is, why be proud to be American, African, or of any random nation, when it boils down to simply being human.

 

We are a disease upon this planet and will end up killing ourselves because we disrupt the systems we depend on to survive. The very thing that separates us from animals will also be what brings about our demise.

Please let's not forget that the land living dinosaurs were about to face the same fate -- a changing environment, with more heat, and less food and water supply. While the fate of the dinosaurs was sealed otherwise eventually, many other species had to deal with the fact that the world around them has changed or had been changed in a manner they could not cope with any longer, and this long before humans hit the planet. So we're not special in any way regarding that.

 

At the end of the day it's not the fact that we are the "special" human race and our "special" separation from the animal that will cause our demise. It will be the fact that, once more, evolution went down the "wrong" road.

[ForeverNight]

My point is, why be proud to be American, African, or of any random nation, when it boils down to simply being human. [/Quote]

 

Well, I guess its because of the fact that not every country in the world is... good? There's not a good word for it, because some people see a Dictatorship or a real Monarchy as something great and to be advanced towards.

 

Also, because not all countries have the freedoms that other countries do. For example, within most of Europe, its pretty hard to get a firearm, whilst over here in the US, its pretty easy to get a firearm. Not effortless, but fairly easy.

 

Not the only point I'm trying to bring up, but I think it gets my point across: all countries are different, they all have different social mores, and they all approach the same problem with a different angle.

 

So, I guess that, at the end of the day, I'm proud to be an American, not that I'm human, but an American.

 

Oh, and thanks for addressing the "Humans are going to die because we disrupt..." bit!

[Inyri]

What that boils down to, then, is be proud of where you're from, but don't be hatin' on other folks for coming from somewhere different?

 

I am happy to be American, though not necessarily proud. My lack of pride has nothing to do with politics or anything, I just don't think much about it and don't see it as a pride issue (since I was born here -- can't be proud of myself when my parents are the ones who chose for me to live here, eh?). I am, though, happy that I was born here into a good life and I hope other people in other nations get the same opportunity.

 

I am happy to wave the American flag -- just like I'm happy to celebrate Christian religious holidays and such -- but I always hope that those from different cultures/religions will celebrate the spirit of these things with me. I am happy to celebrate Hanukkah with the Jews (in spirit) or celebrate Canada Day with the Canadians (in spirit) because, at the end of the day, we're all one big group of people.

[ForeverNight]

No, it's not just that your parents decided to have you here...

 

If you read the 14th Amendment, it says:

 

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,(See Note 15) and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

 

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

 

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

 

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. [/Quote]

 

Section 1 is the only important one there. It says in it: subject to the jurisdiction thereof. At least, as I interpret it, that means you also have you allegiance to the country. E.G. You cannot be in the Jurisdiction of the place if you do not hold any allegiance to there.

 

So, it is more than your parents lived here. Does it give you a leg up? Like heck it doesn't! You live here, you hold your allegiance to the US, thus you are a Citizen. Both have to occur.

[Inyri]

That's not what that means. In fact, saying you have to have allegiance to the US to be a citizen is outright silly. If you're born here you're a citizen, period.

[Totenkopf]

No, it's not just that your parents decided to have you here...

 

If you read the 14th Amendment, it says:

 

 

 

Section 1 is the only important one there. It says in it: subject to the jurisdiction thereof. At least, as I interpret it, that means you also have you allegiance to the country. E.G. You cannot be in the Jurisdiction of the place if you do not hold any allegiance to there.

 

Actually, you don't have to be a citizen of a country to be subject to its jurisdiction. Just ask any foreign smuggler in a Turkish (or elsewhere) prison. They hold no allegiance to those countries. Nor do the inmates of a foreign POW camp.

 

However, if you mean that by remaining a citizen of good standing in any particular country that you demonstrate an allegiance to it, you're probably correct.

[Ray Jones]

Well, I guess its because of the fact that not every country in the world is... good? There's not a good word for it, because some people see a Dictatorship or a real Monarchy as something great and to be advanced towards.

Hm. Who do you think has more reason to be a proud American. The native American tribes? The Vikings? Or those Americans who came from Spain? Or Italy. England? Scotland? Germany? Or Russia, China, India. Mexico? What would you say?

 

 

Also, because not all countries have the freedoms that other countries do. For example, within most of Europe, its pretty hard to get a firearm, whilst over here in the US, its pretty easy to get a firearm. Not effortless, but fairly easy.

Oh, I'm pretty sure there are many countries where you have any freedom to get as many firearms as you want as well as the right to watch your pregnant wife's womb slit open and your daughters being raped and shot right in front of you. Way to be proud of freedom.

 

 

Not the only point I'm trying to bring up, but I think it gets my point across: all countries are different, they all have different social mores, and they all approach the same problem with a different angle.

And yet, they all use water to cook.

 

 

So, I guess that, at the end of the day, I'm proud to be an American, not that I'm human, but an American.

And Americans are not humans?

[mimartin]

You live here, you hold your allegiance to the US, thus you are a Citizen. Both have to occur.

By whose standard? I just want to know to whom I must prove my allegiance to be considered an U.S. Citizen. If I’m not a citizen why did I have to postmark a ten thousand dollar check to Uncle Sammy two hours ago?

 

I’m proud to be an American and would hope everyone has the opportunity and reason to have some pride in their country. I don’t always feel my country does what is right or even in its best interest, but I’m still proud and grateful to those that have fought and died to protect my freedoms even when I don’t agree with some of those freedoms. I don’t believe I live in the greatest country in the world, but I do believe I live on the greatest planet in the solar system.

[Darth_Yuthura]

I’m proud to be an American and would hope everyone has the opportunity and reason to have some pride in their country. I don’t always feel my country does what is right or even in its best interest, but I’m still proud and grateful to those that have fought and died to protect my freedoms even when I don’t agree with some of those freedoms. I don’t believe I live in the greatest country in the world, but I do believe I live on the greatest planet in the solar system.

 

I am NOT proud to be an American because it required no effort on my part. I think that pride comes from an actual accomplishment. Don't say you're proud of yourself for something you didn't have to work for. Be proud of those who sacrificed their lives for the state. Be proud of your own accomplishments rather than simply being an American.

 

I'm an American as well... why should I be proud of that?

[Samuel Dravis]

I am NOT proud to be an American because it required no effort on my part. I think that pride comes from an actual accomplishment. Don't say you're proud of yourself for something you didn't have to work for. Be proud of those who sacrificed their lives for the state. Be proud of your own accomplishments rather than simply being an American.

 

I'm an American as well... why should I be proud of that?

Why can't there be more than one sort of pride? All it would require is that people use the same word in different circumstances - and that seems to be the case here. This "national pride" is just a sort of pride that doesn't require any particular deeds on the part of those who feel it. It's hard to mistake one for the other in practice - I wouldn't put "American" on a resume - but they are similar (though certainly not identical!) concepts. I think it's entirely possible to feel proud to be American and proud of your accomplishments - in different senses of the word - at the same time.

[Darth_Yuthura]

I don't like thinking of myself as an American. I don't like being a part of a war that was waged upon the whim of greedy individuals. When I see Americans dying and hearing the ones who caused the war saying that we should support our troops... it sickens me. Although I didn't have any influence on the war one way or another, I'm still a part of the state that waged it. Hundreds of thousands of deaths(murders) resulted from the war in Iraq. I don't want to be a part of that, but I am.

 

This is a mouthful that I just posted, but this is what I think about being an American.

[Rev7]

How about "I'm proud to be human because we created an clean, safe, affordable alternate fuel (energy)" instead?

That is what I said.

[RyuuKage]

I can be proud of the national concept of America.

 

I'm certainly not proud of our government at any level...idiots...in fact, i'm sickened by a good 95% of our citizenry as well.

 

screw it, humans suck...

[Arcesious]

Most of humanity sucks, and most all nationalities are irrelevent. For what it's worth, I'm proud to be a human. For what it stands for to truly be 'human'...

[Totenkopf]

What, you mean all the great things like perversion, homicidal tendencies, myopia, greed, hateful, vanity, etc, ad nauseam.

[Arcesious]

No... i'm only proud of what really matters about being a human. Sentience, thought, free will, curiousity, advancement, and fun.

[Web Rider]

No... i'm only proud of what really matters about being a human. Sentience, thought, free will, curiousity, advancement, and fun.

 

To be truthful, the only one of those that's mostly humanity is Advancement. It's up in the air if certain animals that are known to be highly intelligent, such as dolphins, some species of ape, and elephants, are not sentient. And just about every living thing is curious, has free will(save maybe ants and hive-minded bugs), and has fun.

[TheExile]

Long live mother Russia!!!... naaaaah....

For the freedom of America!!!! naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...

THIS IS SPARTA!!!! YEEEEEEEESSSS!!!!

 

Currently, I'm not proud of my lill' poor country. I will be proud soon enough, because I intend to repair some of the damage the communists did decays ago. Can't wait to finish my studies to go in LA- "take me to New York,/ I would like to see LA!/American boy, American boy ( that's a song)- well I'll be wealthy enough I'll come back in my country with capable people too help my poor country. After all, if you live and you don't do a good, generous thing, as good and generous as you can, you lived for nothing.